Forum Replies Created
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Posts
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Avi K -“1. You and Erdogan make a nice couple. Actually turkey is very popular here although some claim that there is no messora.”
You and Herzl make a nice couple. Btw, what happened to Uganda?!?
“2. In other words you could not think of one so you punted.”
Because you didn’t answer my point! Why is the Medina allowed to issue a license that includes Shabbos and Yom Tov?
“4. Several times when I pointed out to people that tey were over they told me thatt hey knew the Halacha. In other words, they were meizid”
I told already, it’s not Osser, because no one knows each other!
So stop being Megaleh Ponim Shlo K’halacha!
Avi K -“1. The Tanach is Zionist propaganda?”
No it’s not. You do that!
“2. Actually, southwestern Turkey is part of the land promised to Avraham Avinu so they should give it to us.”
When Moshiach comes, we will have the whole world.
Sam2 -“Health: The Minchas Chinuch was fueled by Zionist propaganda?”
Don’t make up stories! I never said that.
Simcha613 -“Turkey would not have a right of return givng all Jews automatic citizenship when returning to Eretz Yisroel. Don’t fool yourself into thinking that yishuv Eretz Yisroel would be happening at the same quantity and quality under any other regime”
You’re right! Only the Zionists are interested in Shmad, like they did to the Yeminite Jews!
Simcha613 -“My response to Health- As we see from Tanach and Halacha, Yishuv Eretz Yisroel is worth fighting for even if it puts lives at risk. Zionist sovereignty allows for the maximum amount of Yishuv Eretz Yisroel and is therefore worth fighting to defend. Am Yisro’el Be’Eretz Yisro’el.”
Stop with the Zionist propaganda!
EY can be controlled by Turkey. They allowed you to move anywhere in the land.
Jewish lives are valuable; Not to be sacrificed on the altar of Zionism!
Simcha613 -To play devil’s advocate on behalf of Simcha613 & ROB & Avi K. I think they mean Zionist sovereignty is worth Many Jewish lives. (That is – as long as it’s Not them or their families!)
Avi K -“1. Make aliya and work for change instead of sitting in galut backbiting.”
I would, if Turkey took over the Medina!
“2. Yes it is.”
You were so desperate for a rebuttal, so 2 other posters responded.
“3. So maybe none of us really exists. We are all the same person, maybe not even Jewish, who is doing this for fun. The Chofetz Chaim says (torah.org.il Laws of Rechilut 1:9 translation)”
Why don’t you grow up?
“It is also forbidden to help one’s friend deduce who spoke or did something against him even without revealing the name of the culprit. Whether to speak more generally, so that only later will his friend realize the identity of the speaker, or if the friend knows what happened but does not know who did it, to give him hints so the friend will deduce who it was, is prohibited”
Yes, I know the Halachah. I don’t have to think that you know each other. It’s a Rov.
ZD -“Turkey has been struggling with refugees from lebanon and now from Syria and now you want them to take over those countries and have even more refugees?”
Your made me laugh! 😀
They wouldn’t be refugees in their home countries!
The Western world has destroyed alot of the Arab world.
LS -“Health, there has been one major point that has been ignored. Let’s say, for arguments sake, Israel becomes a fully halachic country. Now, are we talking about halacha and minhag as per : Charaidi?…”
It will never happen, until Moshiach comes!
Avi K-“1. I already posted the Avnei Nezer’s statement. The king (or the secular authorities) do not deal with chillul Shabbat.”
They can’t promote Chillul Shabbos, no matter what you say!
“The fact of the matter is that there are laws regarding working on Shabbat. These are accepted and acceptable as labor laws.”
Not nearly enough!
“2. That is related hto your complaint about Shabbat desecrates being given drivers’ licenses. Stop stonewalling and answer the question.”
No, it isn’t!
“3. You are obviously a tremendous am ha’aretz. Rechilut is Health telling Avi that Simcha said something which could cause a quarrel between Avi and Simcha”
There’s no Aveira because we’re anonymous! But you can post your real name.
JT -“Is too much bug spray bad for you?”
It’s Bain Hamaznim, so you’re bored. Go help your mother!
Btw, Don’t drink the spray.
ZD -“FYI Turkey is no longer conneted to Israel anymore , Either Lebanon or Syrian is in the way”
So let them take over Syria & Lebanon. Like it was in the Ottoman empire. The British and French did a bad job – giving them independence!
Sam2 -“Actually, Jews are currently strongly warned to avoid entering Turkey because it would be unsafe for them.”
I wasn’t talking about terror attacks, but how Jews are treated by their respective governments’!
ZD -“Alot of people who do not want to get married Halchically or cant marry halachically go to Cyprus or sometimes the Czech republic. It seems this cannot be easily banned either as Israel signed some international treaties allowing its marriages to be recongized in other countries so they have to recognize marriages performed in other countries even if they are against halacha.”
What does this have to do with the topic?!?
ZD -“Arabs and other non-jews (non jewish russians for example) who are citizens of Israel have the same license plate as jews
Its only Palestinians and live in the territories who are not citzens that have a different license plate”
Let them rent a car from the territories. Otherwise – That’s the chance the Goyim would take, by driving a Jewish license plate car on the Shabbos!
Avi K -“1. The cameras would only show that the car was driven. It would not show who drove it. What about rented, borrowed and stolen cars? In nay case, as I already posted twice previously, the Avnei Nezer says that it is not the job of the secular authorities (cf. Freddie Prinze’s super, Mr. Rivera).”
That’s the chance the Goyim would take, by driving a Jewish license plate car on the Shabbos.
Does the Avnei Nezer say – you can make laws that allow Jews to drive on Shabbos?
Again you’re in dream land!
“2. The reward of having learned Torah is your payment. The witness will answer the question! Would you sell a pen to a non-observant Jew? Yes or no?”
I told you already – your question is off topic!
“3. You were over on rechilut as I did not notice Simcha’s comment. You were also over on “b’tzedek tishpot amiteicha” as you did not presume that. Should we consider you religious”
It isn’t Rechilus, because we all agree, even Zionists here, except for you, that the State isn’t religious! So stop dreaming.
ROB -“”I want Turkey to take over the country”
FEH.”
I’m pretty sure Jews are treated better there than in Israel!
Just ask the soldier who was charged with manslaughter, for doing his job.
ZD -“What if someone is not jewish and says I want to drive on Saturday. You advocate for them to be fined for driving on SHabbos event though they are perfectly allowed to”
I answered that already! Why don’t you read my posts?
“Arabs don’t have the same license plates.”
And if they insist in driving a car with Israeli plates, & they get ticketed, then that’s their problem!
ZD -“The , however it cannot stop driving (Because you dont know who is driving the car)”
I already answered this! Why don’t you read my posts?
“Nor can the government stop Toeva, It cannot go into peoples bedrooms”
You can stop the parades!
ROB -“Health: As usual,your comments are nonsensical and totally unrealistic.”
Stop talking to yourself!
“You want the Israeli govt to ban driving on shabbos?”
That’s Not what I want. I want Turkey to take over the country. To those that think Israel is a religious country – Israel should ban driving on Shabbos & Yom Tov!
“You cannot even ban driving in Boro Park or Williamsburg- even by jews-and you want the Israeli govt to act like dictators?”
Since when is the US run by Frum Jews?
“You do realize that the majority of Israelis are not religious, don’t you?”
I realize that! Do you “religious” Zionists realize this?
“Some things the govt can do, sone it cannot do. It cannot ban “bossor vecholov” in restaurants,”
It does, if it is under a Hechshair.
“it cannot ban driving on shabbos.”
If you want to call yourself religious, you can ban driving on Shabbos!
Avi K -“1. So who is going to ticket them? A police office who is driving on Shabbat? Not to mention the fact that this will cause the driver to do more chillul Shabbat by stopping, starting, etc. Not to mention that it cause fatalities c”v people who are on missions of pikuach nefesh are stopped. Anyway, as I already posted, according to the Avnei Nezer this is not the government’s job.”
If you bothered to read all my posts – I already answered this to ZD. They could set up cameras!
“2. You still have not answered my question. Would you sell a pen to a non-observant Jew?”
Why should I answer your questions? Do you pay me? I only respond to questions on the topic.
“3. Why are suggesting that I “jump on”? This is a very serious aveira. You are making yourself like the orchei din”
Again you’re being disingenuous! You jumped on American Yerushalmi about his comment on the Religiousness of the State of Israel. So why not jump on Simcha613 when he posted this:
“The Government of Israel is secular.”?
Avi K – This is a quote from Simcha613:
“The Government of Israel is secular.”
Why don’t you jump on him, like you did to American Yerushalmie?
Avi K -“Health, if you owned a stationary store would you refuse to sell to someone who might write on Shabbat? Would you take back his writing instruments if he did?”
Like usual you’re trying to confuse the issue! They don’t have to give driving licenses for Shabbos usage. On my license – it says I must wear glasses. If I’m caught driving without corrective lenses, I could be ticketed.
“FYI, there already is an incentive not to drive on Shabbat. Israel insurance companies give discounts to drivers who declare themselves shomrei Shabbat – and if they do drive they are not covered in case of an accident.”
That’s not nearly enough!
The “Religious” government shouldn’t allow Shabbos driving.
ZD -“Cameras only know that the car is being driven, not who is the driver
Someone who is not jewish could be driving the car”
You’re starting to join the ranks of Avi K & ROB!
First of all, Arabs don’t have the same license plates.
And where did I say Arabs can drive on Shabbos?
They can’t give out licenses for anyone on Shabbos, otherwise it’s discrimination.
ZD -“taking away peoples driving licnses on shabbos will not stop them from driving”
Most people it would stop!
Do you know that there is such a thing as cameras?
People go through red lights, but not most people.
People are scared of the consequences.
ZD -“Unless you are going to publically give Sikella, you cannot force people to keep Shabbos and some people will delibertatly disobey if you tell them to obey.”
Were you talking to me? If you were, no one said the State has to force e/o to keep Shabbos! I wrote – take away the driving license on the Shabbos.
Avi K -“As for the nature of the State, calling it extremely secular is libelous.”
I wrote -“An exception could be made for Shabbos. They don’t have to give them the license for Shabbos.”
The fact that they do – makes it more than secular! Shabbos is the main thing that separates us from Goyim. You’re the biggest proof what the belief in Zionism can do to you!
Queen – He’s got the dippty do look.
Simcha613 -“The other areas are much more dangerous al pi teva. Without a Navi to tell us otherwise, we have to assume that we would be massacred if we try to take parts of Jordan or Lebanon”
Not in the least bit true!
The SLA never wanted Israel to leave and they would be more than happy if Israel took it over.
As far as Jordan, IDK what part is in EY, but for sure, Israel didn’t have to give the West Bank to the PA.
Avi K -“Giving a person a license to drive does not say that he can drive on Shabbat. That is his choice.”
Stop misconstruing my statements!
I wrote -“An exception could be made for Shabbos.” They don’t have to give them the license for Shabbos.
The lies that you promote – that the Medina is for keeping the Torah, is revealed!
Avi K -“Their are no laws that “allow” them.”
The stuff spouting from your posts – only another Zionist, like ROB, would believe!
Don’t they give out licenses for people to drive vehicles? An exception could be made for Shabbos. Don’t they give out permission for parades? They don’t have to give out for Toaivah parades!
Avi K -“Judicial review means that they can knock down a law.Thus the government cannot do whatever it wants. However, if no one objects than they do not get involved.”
OK. Why don’t they knock down the laws that let people have Gay parades & drive on Shabbos & Yom Tov?!?
Avi K -“Health, take a remedial reading course. I wrote that the rabbanim exercise judicial review”
The following is your quote:
“that rabbanim only became involved when someone raised an objection after a decision Their function was basically judicial review. However, if no one objected they did not invalidate a decision on their own.”
So basically your saying the government can do what they want! It doesn’t matter whether the thing is against Daas Torah or Not.
So therefore I posted this:
“So you probably had no problem when the Nazi party came to power in Germany. After all, they were elected by the German people.”
Avi K -“Brisker, you never listen to your own drivel? Not to mention Health’s? Who says that it only involves tax issues? Rav Moshe said that military decisions are made by the military leadership. In fact, when Rav Kook and Rav Solovechik were asked for advice they only set forth the choices and their ramifications but left the final decisions to the questioners. Rav Tzvi Yehuda never endorsed any political party but gave anyone who asked a beracha as he believed that each one had part of the truth.”
Your posts are getting more illogical by the minute!
So you probably had no problem when the Nazi party came to power in Germany. After all, they were elected by the German people.
Avi K -“Health, 1. Who are these anonymous “Litvish Poskim & the Brisker Poskim”? Are they the “gedolim shlita” who sign pashkevilim?”
Stop trying to make fools of Anti-Zionists!
We’ve been arguing this for years. Do a search in the CR.
Many times posters have listed the names.
“I think that it is obvious that this only holds when there is a discussion and vote. Otherwise how do we know?”
Your wrong again! That’s why Bais Hillel & Bais Shammy married each other!
Simcha613 -“If you don’t think it is assur to live in EY, don’t quote the possuk of venishmartem which may give someone the wrong impression.”
Stop Dreying A Kopp!
I quoted Venishmartem for this reason:
Since the times are – that we have no peace there, certainly Rabbeinu Chaim Cohen’s opinion should be considered when contemplating moving to Israel!
Simcha613 -“does not mean R’ Moshe would now say that is assur to go because of venishmartem. You can’t assume and make up a shitah like that that R’ Moshe never said.”
No one is going to Assur living in EY. I’m really clueless what you’re getting at! There are even Satmar Chassidim living there.
Since the times are – that we have no peace there, certainly Rabbeinu Chaim Cohen’s opinion should be considered when contemplating moving to Israel!
I posted this before:
“Rav Moshe concludes that since no one rules that there is an absolute obligation of Aliyah, Rabbeinu Chaim Cohen’s opinion should certainly be considered when contemplating moving to Israel.”
Avi K -“Health, who says that most poskim hold like Rav Moshe.”
Now let’s see: There’s the Litvish Poskim and also the Satmar Poskim & the Brisker Poskim and you’re saying “Who says”?
I don’t think that “Religious” Zionism has that many Rabbis.
“In any case, halacha k’rabbim is only when there is a discussion and vote, as in a din Torah or on the Sanhedrin.”
Who says? Prove it!
Simcha613-“If I have a rabbi? You sure get mean when you disagree with someone. I actually asked the Rov of my shul (who is not a Religious Zionist) and he told me that many have asked the question and he personally does not have a firm grasp of what R’ Moshe meant.”
Well maybe your Rabbi should ask his son – R’ Dovid?
“You may need to relearn history if you think EY was safer in the 1300s than it is today.”
You make up stories. I was talking about nowadays!
“And I don’t know if it’s definitely worse now than it was when R’ Moshe wrote the teshuvah. But even if it is, you can’t assume he would say it’s assur to go nowadays because it’s too dangerous.”
Of course it is. No one knows when the next terrorist attack will be!
Simcha613 -“Honestly, I don’t really understand R’ Moshe’s opinion. First of all, what’s a mitzvah kiyumis? An optional mitzvah? Mitzvah means commandment so saying it’s optional is a bit contradictory.”
Go ask your Rabbi to explain it to you, if you have one!
“Also, what does it mean to consider R’ Chaim Cohen’s opinion? It’s either objectively dangerous and we shouldn’t go, or it’s not dangerous and we should go?”
“Either way, at the very least, R’ Moshe says it’s a good thing to go to Eretz Yisroel… he calls it a mitzvah kiyumis (whatever that means). So I don’t think R’ Moshe is a ra’ayah that it is assur to go to Eretz Yisroel because it’s too dangerous. I don’t think moving to Eretz Yisroel is an
issue of “v’nishmartem” that everyone who lives in E”Y ius violating.”
Nowadays it’s much worse than it was at that time.
“By the way, I also resent the fact that you say I’m pushing the “Zionist agenda”. Everyone who disagrees with how you interpret the mitzvah of yishuv Eretz Yisroel or how the Geulah is supposed to come is pushing some sort of secular agenda”
Maybe it’s just a coincidence that your posts are very similar to the Zionists who post here!
Avi K -“Rav Ovadia rejects Rav Moshe’s opinion and even rules that one must make aliya against one’s parents’ wishes (Yechaveh Daat 4:49)
The site you quoted also contains the opinions of the Tzitz Eliezer and Rav Schachter against Rav Moshe’s opinion”
The fact is Most Poskim hold like Rav Moshe! Did you ever learn Halacha K’rabim?
Why do “religious” Zionists always hold like the few Rabbis when it comes to Israel?!?
Simcha613 -“Health- is there any posek that actually says it is halachically forbidden to live in EY because it’s too dangerous?”
Your question is disingenuous!
Quit pushing the Zionist propaganda/agenda.
I could have posted from Neutri Karta, but I posted from the middle of the road:
Rav Feinstein argues that even though most authorities agree with the Ramban that one fulfills a Mitzvah by living in Israel today, there is no obligation to move to Israel. Rav Feinstein feels that the Ramban and those who agree with him believe that if one moves to Israel he has fulfilled a Mitzvah (Mitzvah Kiyumit) but that there exists no absolute obligation to do so (Mitzvah Chiyuvit). Rav Moshe concludes that since no one rules that there is an absolute obligation of Aliyah, Rabbeinu Chaim Cohen’s opinion should certainly be considered when contemplating moving to Israel.”
ROB -“HEALTH – What delicious irony: Invoking Ettinger for the purpose of attacking medinat Yisroel. Ettinger, whose whole family has fought and died for the Zionist ideal of medinat yisroel….Yup- he is whom you rely upon to support your twisted view of medinat yisroel.”
Exactly my point! Who said you should risk your life by being against Arabs – in this day & age?!? When Moshiach comes – we all know who will be on top & who will be on the bottom.
The idea to fight against the Goyim – is not for now!
The Zionists who post here, keep on talking about Mitzvahs that have to do with EY.
What about the Chiyov of V’nismartem Moed …?!?
Simcha613 -“Using Zionism as an excuse to delegitimize Eretz Yisroel is in my opinion one of the biggest dangers of anti-Zionism.”
No one is delegitmizing EY. What we are delegimizing is the Zionists!
Stop with the dream that Israel is the place to be – right now!
Just ask Ettinger, (Kahane’s grandson).
Avi K -“Health, 1. That is why I asked if you hope to be in Brooklyn.”
No, I hope to be in Yerushalyim with Moshiach. Not beforehand with the Zionists!
“2. Someone who does not dream is called a rasha (Berachot 55b).”
You can dream; but Not that the Geula came already.
“3. It has been coming slowly in stages for the past 68 years”
No, the Medina is Not the start of the Geula, no matter what you think!
Avi K – “Health, are you planning to say “Next year in Brooklyn”? Have you at least bought a place in Brooklyn for after 120 years?”
I already told you – I don’t live in NY! What’s your obsession with Israel? The country is run by people who don’t keep the Torah.
“The Geula comes slowly in stages (Yerushalmi Berachot”
And it hasn’t come yet! Quit dreaming.
Avi K -“Of course, if you do not believe in the Geula (or don’t want to believe as you have accepted Brooklyn as your Yerushalayim)”
I believe in the Geula with Moshiach! Zionism is not the beginning of the Geula.
Btw, I don’t live in NY.
Stop with your Zionist propaganda!
Avi K-“Today we see that the Supreme Court is taking a greater role in public life. In the long term it could morph into a Sanhedrin if those appointing the judges are religious”
Stop with your Zionist fantasy! The Israeli Supreme Court has become more & more anti- religious in recent history.
Maybe they’ll have more Muslims on it, than now.
Takamamash -“I’d think that people interested in keeping all the mitzvot would be living in E”Y.”
I agree with you. I don’t want to live in Lakewood, because they’re too many Brooklynites!
CA -“The democrat position is that businesses like being forced to distribute their wealth.”
Another reason why you can’t vote DemonCrat!
But the truth is – all this raising the minimum wage – will cause owners to hire more illegals, than they do already.
The DemonCrat party are bunch of hypocrites!
They aren’t serious in getting rid of the illegals.