Forum Replies Created
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Posts
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Joe -“another Black Lives Matter riot occurs.”
The fact is:
1. Our president is a race-baiter.
2. All liberal Democrats are also race-baiters.
3. You’ll never hear them talking about the illegal riots.
4. You’ll never hear them talking about the black on black crime, which is a daily occurrence!
I’m getting tired – so I’ll wait for the liberal posters here to comment, before I post more.
LU -“And all those who have criticized her owe her a major apology!!”
Speaking about apologies, you owe me and DY an apology from the Brochos topic!
29 -“Sorry to disappoint you but I don’t remember ever saying anything about where I live. I don’t think I have been in NY in more than a decade except to pass through it twice. Maybe we *should* talk about being Dan L’caf Zechus.”
You’re wrong again. IDK where you live, but your attitude is like a New Yorker. Where you born there?
What am I “wrong again” about? I just told you I am not from NY and you are telling me I am wrong?
APY -“In fact, the very same teshuva strongly encourages people not to start smoking, for parents and rabbeim to discourage their children and talmidim from starting. However, he does not say, as you imply that it is categorically assur to smoke. In fact, in another teshuva he writes that one is is machmir (am pretty sure it is the word he used – but need to double check) not to smoke does not violate lifnei iver by providing a cigarette to someone who does.
I freely admit, you have thoroughly confused me. Are you saying that Rav Moshe z’l wrote in his teshuva that smoking is an absolute issur?
Did you or did you not put Rav Moshe on a list of those poskim who rule smoking is an absolute issur?”
I just quoted what you wrote on top.
Now this is your last quote:
“R’ Moshe held one should not start smoking and in fact held it is assur to get addicted, but as far as saying smoking was outright assur he never wrote such a thing.”
Your posts are full of hypocrisy!
R’ Moshe never differentiated between getting addicted and smoking!
I never meant if you smoke one cig. you’re Oiver an Issur!
I was talking about s/o who’s addicted to smoking!
Now is your chance to correct all your posts!
APY -“You are wrong.”
Why? Cause you say so?
Call up R’ Revain and ask him what his father held if it wasn’t
a ??? ???? to get sick because of smoking?
Then come back here & inform us!
29 – You sure don’t know what I meant! I was serious.
Just cause you NYers don’t talk like that – I do.
And when she said she lives OOT, I talked like that because I’m originally from OOT!
Talk about Dan L’caf Zecus during the 9 days.
iacisrmma -“Do you mean there are two users named “Health”?”
Sorry, just me from a few years ago.
Does this mean that you won’t find me a Shidduch?!?
PBA -“Sparky is CT lawyer’s daughter.”
Ya’ know, I was thinking the same thing!
Sparky – How’s Mom doing?
JF2 -“Health, forget it, we’re just going in circles here.”
Well not really. You just don’t want to admit that you’re wrong!
From Webster’s:
Conspiracy –
:a secret plan made by two or more people to do something that is harmful or illegal
: the act of secretly planning to do something that is harmful or illegal
Organizations, like the APA, just like to be PC, even if it contradicts science!
APY -“Are you saying that Rav Moshe z’l wrote in his teshuva that smoking is an absolute issur?”
Yes.
“Are you now saying that chashash rachuk is now a heter that he is proposing to allow one to smoke? if not, please clarify this line “So if it’s not ????, then there is No Heter!”. What heter?
“Did you or did you not put Rav Moshe on a list of those poskim who rule smoking is an absolute issur?”
Not me, s/o else did!
JF2 -“Health…do you understand the meaning of the word “conspiracy”?”
I do. Do you?
APY -“He does not use ??? ???? as a basis for permitting smoking, and now that we have more research we can assume he would have assured it.”
Actually he does. It’s a 2 step process. First he says Chashah, then Shomer etc.
So if it’s not ????, then there is No Heter!
That’s directly from R’ Moshe. Stop denying what he wrote!
You’re doing all this to say – you’re Never Wrong!
You’re wrong and just admit it!
iacisrmma -“Health: I have my own opinion and I only use this alias. From what I can see from all of your posts (on this and all other topics) is that YOU ARE THE ONE TRYING TO MANIPULATE EVERYONE. You quoted the sources for the gedolim you mentioned. All I said was that quoting R’ Moshe accurately is not a krumkeit.”
“YOU ARE THE ONE TRYING TO MANIPULATE EVERYONE.”
How so?
“All I said was that quoting R’ Moshe accurately is not a krumkeit.”
mentsch1 -“Health
In case you forgot, i will paste one of your comments from page 1
YY -“just because someone smokes doesnt mean they are otd!”
Sure they are! As a matter of fact, some Yeshivas will throw out a smoker!
Now
If you are telling me that you are retracting your position, or didn’t mean what you wrote, then I am Ok with that.”
I personally didn’t call anyone OTD. Yes, I did defend s/o else who did. They have that right to say that, even though I wouldn’t say that!
“In case you are curious
As I have posted before, I am a health care professional, not a yeshiva bachur”
I’m not sure what you are & I’m not sure whether you’re lying or not.
So don’t bother asking me any questions.
I’m not going to answer the ones that you posted, because I’m not sure whether you’re on the up & up!
Sadgirlygirl -“but the point is I leftttttt!”
Question – Why did you leave? Because you asked your mentor or because of the posts here?
IMS -“There’s got to be a way to stop it from the start.”
Sorry to inform you, I only know of one Yeshiva that doesn’t allow smoking. If s/o would bring in a TV, he’d be chucked out!
IDK why smoking isn’t the same!
Maybe the Yeshivas think that they wouldn’t have any Bochrim left?!?
iacisrmma -“Health: Quoting R’ Moshe accurately is NOT A KRUMKEIT! If R’ Reuven says that the psak is no longer applicable, then it is HIS psak that his father’s psak no longer applies. R’ Moshe had to pasken with what he knew and understood at the time. Further research has proved that smoking is even more dangerous than what he knew. That doesn’t give us the right to misquote his original psak.”
APY -“No. People like you who attribute things to poskim that they never said are the ones who are dangerous. I know what Rav Reuven shlita said. I know what Rav Moshe z’l wrote. I know what you claim he wrote. You don’t do anyone any favors by distorting things. Certainly not Rav Moshe.”
I’ll answer both of you together, if there are two, maybe it’s just one with multiple SN’s like Joe!
I quoted Rav Moshe that says being that the chance of getting sick from smoking is only a ??? ???? so therefore it’s Mutter.
From Rav Moshe’s Psak Bechall Hein Lav!
So if it’s Not a ??? ????, then it’s Ossur!
Stop trying to manipulate e/o just to prove that you’re right!
– “The 317 is a local route.”
Like I said previously –
“You can go from Philly airport to Lakewood, but it will take all day.”
And that’s without the flight time!
SL -“so if he takes the 67, about how long does it take from airport to lakewood?”
An hour and half without traffic.
APY -“Rav Moshe never said such a thing. All i’m saying.
More real that your false attribution to Rav Moshe”
This is from that topic:
“While Rav Moshe writes in Igros Moshe ??”? ?”? ??’ ?”? that being that the chance of getting sick from smoking is only a ??? ???? it’s muttar to smoke if your addicted. Today, after it has been proven that smoking kills most smokers, Rav Reuven Feinstein and others have said hold that Rav Moshe’s psak is clearly not applicable.”
I really don’t care what you think about Rav Moshe’s Psak! His son says that Heter today is Not applicable!
People like you are very dangerous because of your Krumkeit!
JF2 -“What on earth do you call that, if not a conspiracy?”
Call it what you want, but I don’t think it was a conspiracy!
People just like to be PC, even if it contradicts science!
Conspiracy implies on purpose.
Like Michael Savage says – “Liberalism is a mental disorder”!
LU -“Actually, I’m one of the poorest people around!”
You have no idea what poor is! I had to leave my house and live with my family because I couldn’t afford the rent.
Shopping 613 -“Look, spiritual safety is defenetly more important, but to do our tafkid we NEED to be healthy”
IDK where this train of thought came into Judaism!
We Jews have a Torah & in the Torah it says Venishmartem etc.
As matter of fact, the Torah has Mitzvos (Lossay & Ahsays) that have to do with health and safety!
So it’s really a Non-Jewish concept to say – “spiritual safety is defenetly more important”!
Mentch1 – Are you sure?
“My guess is you watch TV, like Sparkly. The gedolim call that assur. Does that make you and Sparkly OTD?”
Did you learn in the Mir to be Choshet B’csharim?
Is that what all your years in the Yeshiva taught you – if you want to defend yourself because you’re a smoker, attack the other guy with ever you feel like?!?
“No where in rabbinic literature have I seen a definition of OTD that revolves around smoking.”
Btw, it wasn’t me who called anyone OTD! Put down the cig, because the smoke is affecting your eyesight.
“But I have seen a definition revolving around TV. In regards to the issur of yichud a parutz does not count in terms of negating the issur yichud. There are those that hold that watching TV qualifies you as a parutz.”
So first you said I watch TV, now you’re saying I’m a Parutz.
You’re another reason why they should cancel Bein-Hazemanim!
Time to learn what Being Odom L’Chavero has to do with the 9 days!
How many Blatt did you learn after Pesach 4 or 5?!?
LU -“I prefer to avoid it, so I would rather go a roundabout way and pay a bit more.”
Well, of course, but not e/o can afford it like you!!!
SL -“is the aiport in philly as easily accessible to lakewood? (the newark prices are not working for me”
You can go from Philly airport to Lakewood, but it will take all day.
There are a few ways to do it.
I wouldn’t advise it, unless s/o can pick you up in Philly!
Try CheapOair for Chicago to Newark.
SL -“as some random anonymous poster I have no idea what you have. For all i know you are some 19 year old mormon with 10 wives pretending to be an older divorced jewish medical guy with kids. hey, this is the internet.”
Here is a quote of yours from the other topic:
“sparkley – do you kinda make this stuff up as you go along? Just curious”
Let me change it a little:
Syag Lchochma – do you kinda make this stuff up as you go along? Just curious?!?
Mentch1 -“Health -Don’t you think the list of gedolim who ban TV etc vastly outweighs the list you put up?”
What are you talking about? I never said e/o should go watch TV!
If TV is Osser or Mutter, it has nothing to do with Smoking!
SL -“And if you really do have daughters,”
And what does this mean?
LU -“Terrible things have happened to people who did just that!”
Please tell me about the terrible things that happened to people who advertised in phone books as Rabbis?
LU -“That is NOT a good way to look for a Rav!!
Also, not all Rabbanim are so accessible – you have to know which ones are and at what hours. Some Rabbanim have their wives screen their calls and that can be awkward and annoying. Not all Rabbanim are reliable. Some Rabbanim are reliable for straight halacha questions but not issues involving hashkafa. Some Rabbanim are not the personable type. Some Rabbanim are impatient and don’t have time or patience to listen to a teenager’s stories. You can’t just pick up the phone and call a Rav – you have to know who to call.”
Whatever it is, it’s better than asking advice from some anonymous posters!!!
SL -“thanks so much. how would that compare to nj transit in regard to price?”
A lot of $. Go to NJ transit.com and pull up the 67 route. And you’ll see where it goes.
One of the stops is the Lakewood bus terminal.
Actually I take the 67 all the time – it stops at my corner.
LU -“Health – you are right in theory, but l’maaseh, it’s not always so easy to know how to find someone especially for girls.”
Since G. Bell’s invention, most Rabbis have them!
She’s on a computer, let her do a search for Orthodox Rabbi in her town.
It’s not that difficult, no matter what you say!
LU -“But if she can find a reliable Gadol or Rav who is accessible to ask, that would be the best of course!”
What does it mean Asseh Lechah Rav?
Let her look for one!
APY -“Are you a navi? do you have ruach hakodesh? I am not, and do not. Therefore, when people make claims I ask for proof.”
Since I didn’t ask these people themselves, nor am I going to, you’ll have to decide whether that poster made up all those quotes or they’re actual?
When you read a Sefer, do you ask whether the printer wrote it or the Rov?!?
“No, Im not. Rav Moshe never ruled anywhere that smoking is an absolute Issur despite claims to the contrary. That his Sons and Talmidim say that he would nowadays is not the same thing and stating that Rav Moshe ruled it is an absolute issur. THEY are ruling it is an absolute issur and state that he would agree with them.”
So you’re saying that you know better than them? You know the thought processes of R’ Moshe better than his son?
Are you for real?!?
JF2 -“Health: So basically, your argument is that there’s a massive conspiracy going on.”
What conspiracy?
Stop dreaming!
The APA and others, changed their views on homosexuality & conversion therapy.
Like I wrote previously –
“It’s based on popular belief, not Psychological new knowledge!”
PBA -“Smoking is very dangerous. Look, even just talking about smoking has made half the CR posters into lunatics.”
Wrong. Me and you have been nuts for many years, nothing to do with the CR!
APY -“Do you still maintain that according to the teshuva you cited R’ Moshe holds smoking is an absolute issue?”
I don’t, but R. Moshe’s son thinks it is!
“Rav Reuven Feinstein and others have said hold that Rav Moshe’s psak is clearly not applicable.”
“I’m not disagreeing with the position of his many talmidim and his own sons who are gedolim in their right and What they say he would rule today.”
Actually you are!
“I just don’t like when people make absolute statements in the name of poskim without providing a source for it.”
Obviously that poster, either asked R. Revain himself or he knows it for a fact another way.
iacisrmma -“Health: please provide the sources for those you listed who “ASSURED” smoking. I prefer to look them up with my Rav.”
I just did. Read it again!
APY -“It didn’t answer the question. Where is the teshuva from Rav Moshe z’l that it is assur to smoke.”
I did you a favor. I went to that topic from 4 years ago.
And here is the quote from Tzvei Dinim:
“Anyways the following is the real opinion of other poskim in their own words:
???? ???? ??”?:
“???? ???? ????? ????? ????? ???????? ???? ??? ????? ??, ??? ??? ?????? ???? ???? ??? ?? ???? ??? ???? ???? ?? ?????? ?? ???? ??? ?????? ?????? ??????? ???? ?? ?????. ???? ????? ??? ????? ?? ????? ?? ???? ?? ???? ?? ??? ?? ?????? ??????? ????? ??????? ??? ??? ?? ???? ??????? ??? ???? ??? ??? ????? ???. ?????? ??? ?? ???? ??? ?????? ????? ?? ??, ??? ???”? ???? ????? ????? ???? ??? ??”? ??? ???? ????? ???? ????? ????? ??? ???? ??????? ????????? ???? ??? ??? ???? ??? ?????? ?? ???”? ??????? ????? ????? ??? ??? ????? ?? ??? ???? ?????? ??????? ???? ???? ???? ????? ????? ??? ????? ??? ??? ???? ?????? ??? ?”? ?????? ????? ?????? ????? ???? ???? ???? ?? ?? ???? ??? ??? ????? ??? ??? ?????” (?????? ????? ??’ ?”?).
??”? ????? ????? ??”?:
????? ??? ??”? ????? ??? ????”? ??? ????? ??? ???????? “????????? ?????? ????? ????? ?????? ??????? ?????? ????? ?? ??”? ???”? ????? ?? ???? ???? ????? ???? ????? ????????”.
??”? ???? ?????? ??”?:
“??????? ????? ???? ???? ?????, ??? ??????? ???? ??? ???, ??? ???? ??? ????? ???? ?????? ???? ?????” (????? ?????? ??’ ?????? ????? ??’ ??”?. ??? ???? ???? ????? (???”?) ??’ ??”?, ??? ???? ???? ???? “?? ?? ?????? ??? ???”? ?????? ??? ???? ?? ?? ??? ????”, ???? “???? ??? ???”? ?????? ????? ????’ ??? ??? ????? ????????”).
??”? ??? ???:
“?????? ??? ??????? ???? ???? ???? ??????? ???? ???? ????? ????? ????? ????? ???? ?????? ????? ???? ???? ?????? ?? ????? ??? ????? ????? ?????? ????? ?? ????? ???? … ????? ???? ??? ?????? ??? ??????? ???? ??????? ?? ???????? ?? ?? ?????? ???? ?? ????? ????? ????? ???? ??? ???? ????? ????? ?? ?????” (?”? ??’ ?”? ??? ?’).
??”? ??? ??????:
“?????? ????? ??? ???? ???? ??????, ??????? ??? ?????? ????? ???? ??????? ???? ??? ??? ?? ??? ???? ?? ??? ???” (??”? ??’ ?”?, ??”? ?? ??”? ??’ ?”? ???????).
??”? ?? ???? ??? ???? ??”?:
“???? ???? ??? ?? ??? ????? ???? ??????, ??? ???? ????? ???????? ???? ????” (??? ????? – ???? ????? ??’ ??”?).
??? ??????? ?? ????? ??????
??”? ???? ???? ???????? ??”?:
“… ?????? ??? ??? ?????? ?? ??????? ???? ??????? ?????? ?? ???????” (?????? ???? ??? ??? ??? ????? ???? ????? ?? ??????, ???? ?????? ???? ???? ????? ?”? ??’ ??”?).
“??? ?? ??? ??? ????? ?????? ???? ???? ??? ?????? ???????? ?????, ??? ????? ???? ??????? ???? ?? ?????, ??????? ???? ??? ????? ???????? ?? ???? ???? ????, ???? ??? ?? ?????? ???? ???? ????, ???? ?? ?????, ?????? ?????” (???? ??? ??? ????? ?”? ??’ ?”? ??’ ?? ??’ ???? ?????? ?”? ??’ ??”?-??”?).
??”? ???? ???? ?????? ????”?:
“??? ?? ????? ????? ????? ??????? ????? ????? ?????, ???? ???? ????? ??? ???? ???? ?????? ??? ??????? ?????? ???” (??? ???? ???? ??”?, ??”? ???? ?????? ?”? ??’ ???).
“????? (?? ????”? ?????? ????”?) ?? ???? ??? ???? ???? ?????’ ??????? ???? ?????? ?????? ?????, ????? ?????” (??”? ????? ??? [???”?] ??’ ??”?- ???? ????”? ?????? ????”? ???? ???? ?”? ??? ????? ?????? ??”? ?????? ???????. ??? ????? ??? ???? ???? ?????? “???? ????? ??????? ????????? ?????? ???? ???” ???? ?????? ??? ???? ???”?).
??”? ??? ??????? ????”?:
“????? ????? ????? ???? ????? ?? ????? ????? ???? ???… ?? ???? ?? ????? ???? ????? ?? ????? ????? ???? ???? ????? ???”?, ???? ?????? ?????? ???? ???” (?????? ??????? ?”? ??’ ??”? ??”? ?”? ??’ ??”? ???????).
??”? ?????? ???? ????”?:
“… ???? ?????? ?????? ????? ??? ???? ?? ?????? ???????? ?? ?? ?????? ??????? ????? ????? ??????? ???????, ????? ????? ????? ???” (?????? ???? ?”? ??’ ??”?).
??”? ????? ????? ????”?:
“?? ??????? ?? ??”? ????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ???? ???? ???????? ???? ??? ????” (???? ??? ??? ???? ??? ????? ?”? ?????).
??”? ????? ????? ????”?:
“?????? ?????? ??? ???? ?? ?? ???? ???? ???? ?????? ???? ???? ???? ??? ????” (?”? ??’ ???”?).
??”? ??? ???? ????”?:
“????”? ???? ???? ?? ???? ???? ???? ??????? ???? ????????” (???? ???- ???? ?? ???, ????? ?”?).
???”? ??????? ????”?:
“????: ??? ??? ??????? ??? ??????? ???? ?????? ???? ???”??
?????: ?? ???? ????.
????: ??? ?? ??? ?????? ???????? ???”? ??? ??? ???? ???”? ????? ?? ??? ???? ?? ???????
?????: ???” (???? ?? ??’ ?”?).
While Rav Moshe writes in Igros Moshe ??”? ?”? ??’ ?”? that being that the chance of getting sick from smoking is only a ??? ???? it’s muttar to smoke if your addicted. Today, after it has been proven that smoking kills most smokers, Rav Reuven Feinstein and others have said hold that Rav Moshe’s psak is clearly not applicable.”
APY -“It didn’t answer the question. Where is the teshuva from Rav Moshe z’l that it is assur to smoke.”
I posted this 4 years ago:
“I haven’t seen the Teshuva in awhile but the way I remember it is like this -It’s Ossur to start because of Gaiva, but you can continue, once addicted, because of Hakol Doshin Bo -so there is no problem of V’neshmartem.”
I haven’t looked for it since. And I should look for it now because – of all the money you will give me?!?
apushatayid -“Can someone cite the teshuva where R’ Moshe says it is ASSUR to smoke?”
From 4 years ago:
“The little I know
is still a lot more than you know.
To all the disbelieving nicotine addicts:
Here is a list of poskim who proclaimed smoking as an absolute issur:
Rav A. L. Shteinman
Rav Moshe Shmuel Shapiro
Rav Michel Yehuda Lefkowitz
Rav Shmuel Wosner
Rav Nisim Karelitz
Rav Y.G. Edelstein
Rav B.D. Povarsky
Rav Matisyahu Salomon
Rav Shimon Bedni
Rav Yitzchok Zilberstein
Chofetz Chaim
Chazon Ish
Rav Shach
Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach
Rav Moshe Sterbuch
Rav Avigdor Miller
Rav Yaakov Kaminetzky
Rav Moshe Feinstein
Rav Benzion Abba Shaul
This a partial list. Each and every name here can be verified with specific reference. I only want to know the names behind the heter that is assumed. Permitting smoking is like chometz on Pesach or other maacholos asuros. The issur is severe, not just a chumro.
I have heard some proclaim that Rav Moshe Feinstein ZT”L was matir smoking. That is a complete fabrication. If questioned, I will provide proof otherwise.”
I ALSO POSTED 4 YEARS AGO:
“Health
!
The little I know -“I have heard some proclaim that Rav Moshe Feinstein ZT”L was matir smoking. That is a complete fabrication. If questioned, I will provide proof otherwise.”
I’m totally against smoking. As a medical prof. -I’ve seen the devastating results of smoking.
I haven’t seen the Teshuva in awhile but the way I remember it is like this -It’s Ossur to start because of Gaiva, but you can continue, once addicted, because of Hakol Doshin Bo -so there is no problem of V’neshmartem.
Am I correct? This is what all the smokers rely on.
Even if he held Mutter, I hold nowadays he would say Ossur because at that time noone knew about second-hand smoke. How could it be Mutter because it’s next to impossible to smoke without someone – somewhere breathing it in? Even if there is a Heter to hurt yourself, how could there be a Heter to Mazik s/o else?!?!?”
Meno -“Health: So it is an addiction?”
What didn’t you understand when I posted this?
“Gambling is a new addiction!”
karlbenmarx -“you should quit, this is a very dangerous situation. The One Above will provide, the yetzer hara is telling you to stay and saying you need the money.”
The decision what to do in this situation, should be made by her parents, mentors, and Rabbis.
Not by some anonymous posters!
APY -“Perhaps she can also explain why she has not commented about those who asked whether she discussed this with her parents of family Rav (or any Rav).”
That’s the point!
Certain things are appropriate for the CR. Her topic shouldn’t be here!
Meno -“What about gambling? I’m pretty sure it’s accepted among medical professionals that gambling addiction is a thing.”
Gambling is a new addiction!
From SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN:
Joe -“Once there are only smokers left to marry in their age category those 25 year old girls will have to choose between a young smoker or a 50+ year old.”
It can’t be left to the girls. Just like there is a Kol Koray about age difference, they need one about marrying older guys, instead of Smokers!
Shopping 613 -“If you can be addited to shopping, why not movies?”
There’s a difference between a compulsion and an addiction!
I’m not in the psychological field, s/o here that is, please correct me if I’m wrong. Shopping and let’s say movies, are compulsions.
Smoking is an addiction! You can not compare the two!
Charlie -“Is raw milk dangerous for adults with healthy immune systems?”
“Yes”
Stick to medical statistics, not to politics!
That’s something you’re good at.
YY -“It’s you who are generalizing.”
Of course I’m generalizing, based on facts!
“I gave a straightforward narrative”
When you come to a topic about smoking, it automatically becomes an implication about it!
It’s not a good idea to marry a smoker, even though there are exceptions!