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GAW -“or “burden on business operations”) I believe TWA v Hardison was decided appropriately.”
Of course you’d say that. But you seem to know a little law. So answer my question – “They used to post after the SCOTUS decision just saying it means “not more than de minimis cost”. Now they added in “or burden on business operations;”.”
When did they add it in?
I think they changed it after my Court case!!
This is because at that time I was legally correct!
Sparkly -“Health – in front of a room full of goyim?”
Nope, the teacher was Jewish!!!
Ubiq -“not quite. See here:
I said “”The court interprets the law. That is their role.”
You replied: “Who says? If the law says “Religious accommodation” and they said not more than “de minimus”. Who says that what it means? I say no matter what!”
To which I have been replying several times. It doesnt matter what you say. The court’s role as defined by the constitution is to interpret the law. Of course some of their interpretation wont fit with yours or mine for that matter. In fact in most cases their are even supreme court justices, often as many as 4 who disagree with the court’s interpretation. That doesnt mean every time the court’s interpretation doesnt agree with yours its “just like in Germany”
Why do you make me repeat myself umpteen times?!? Is it because you truly don’t understand or that you can never be wrong?!?
They have the legal right to interpret anyway they want, not necessarily what is a moral interpretation!
Keep dreaming that an employee can take off Shabbos because that’s the law.
They used to post after the SCOTUS decision just saying it means “not more than de minimis cost”. Now they added in “or burden on business operations;”. That to me is changing the basic meaning of the law!!!!
I think they changed it after my Court case!!
This is because at that time I was legally correct!
They change the meaning every time they feel like it!
This is because they are subtlety Antisemitic!!!
But keep voting DemonCrat!!!
Ben Levi – I’m not interested whether you call our government conservative or liberal.
I’m interested what the rights of Frum Jews have in this country.
They don’t have the right to work in all types of jobs!
I think that there is a chance that Trump can change that!
But I wonder what appeal Hillary has that she got Satmar and BMG, Lakewood to promise to vote for her?
I know that those places get a lot money from our government. Did she promise them even more?!?
Sparkly -“did you enjoy it?”
Yes, especially when I got up in the class and denounced the Supreme Court’s ruling on why you can have abortions!
I guess, that the government has the right to change the definition of when life begins!
Yidd23 -“They call themselves Palestinians”
Who cares what they call themselves? The only real Palestinians are the Jews!
The world, including Israel, should stop with their lies!
Ben Levi -“Ye, you are right that the courts ruled against the Liberal’s on this issue.”
So you agree, like the conservatives, that any too-bit excuse that the company can think of, they don’t have to hire Non-Shabbos workers?!?
Ubiq -“IT is the Courts EXACT ROLE to define whether this is “reasonable accommodation” of course you might not agree, but to say they have no right ruling on the issue”
I never said that they didn’t have the right! What I said it’s just like in Germany – they got away with the Nuremberg laws!!!!
When I wrote they “have No right”, you misinterpreted that I meant no legal right, what I meant No moral right!
Next time, why don’t you ask me what I mean before jumping on me that I’m wrong?!?
Sparkly – I took A & P. But they say organic chemistry is very hard.
LU -“I know Rabbanim who say that it is muttar to smoke although it is possible that they would say that it is assur to smoke to the extent that one gets addicted.”
It sounds like a manipulation. No one asks a Shaila if they can smoke a Chosson cig. They ask – is it Mutter to smoke – ie. smoking because I’m addicted!
Ubiq -“What do you mean by start up? shoot some nukes?”
That’s exactly right! Don’t assume he’ll be shooting nukes at anyone he doesn’t like. Stop threatening e/o with scare tactics!
“But Trump’s daughter was willing to become Jewish, in order that her husband didn’t have to assimilate!”
“So trump is now your example of promoting multiculturalism?”
Much more than the Clintons with their Jewish son in law!
They would never consider letting their daughter become Jewish!
“you couldnt be more wrong. That is PRECISELY the job of the courts in general, and the supreme court in particular. Nmaely to interpret the law.
See Article 2 of the US constitution. You say misinterpret, though a. you indicated at one point that you couldnt list such an example. b. misinterpret is obviously subjective. and c. in a sense it is their job to “misinterpret” sicne by interpreting the law (ie doing their job) they will sometimes get it wrong in your opinion.
that IS very kind of you to back up your baseless statements with examples. However I cant find where youve provided your example. would you mind linking to the post where you provided said example of where”
From EEOC website:
“Title VII prohibits:
Courts have No right to change the basic meaning of the law!
Even if they have the right to interpret the law!
Again -“They changed the meaning of “Religious accommodation”!
The law says employers’ must do Religious accommodation. Ask any normal English teacher and they would translate that to mean not too hard on the employer or not extremely hard on the employer or even no matter what.
Saying it means “not more than de minimis cost or burden on business operations;” is changing the basic meaning of the law!!!!
They got away with this, just like in Germany – they got away with the Nuremberg laws!!!!
Ubiq -“whoever says any thing he doesnt like? That has been the case throughout he campaign”
So do really think he’ll start up with anyone he doesn’t like because the way he acts now?!? If you really do, that’s idiocy!
“Article 2. you now say misinterpret earlier you said “I happen not to have a problem with that interpretation, but what I just posted was to make a point” Which is it?
At any rate earlier you asked “”Who says” regarding The courts interpreting the law. This is in the constitution. You dont get to decide (though of course you can have an opinion). but interpreting the law is PRECISELY the courts role.”
Again they have No right, call it what you want – interpret or misinterpret, to change the basic normal understanding of the law!
And out of the kindness of my heart, I gave you an example how they changed the meaning of “Religious accommodation”!!!!
GAW -“Just don’t expect any sympathy from anyone”
Who do I want sympathy from? The posters on YWN?
I wasn’t expecting any money from the posters here!
IDK if Trump change anything but he can change “business as usual” in this country!
There are a lot Jews here that think in order to get along with the Goyim we have to assimilate!
Eg. Clinton’s son in law.
But Trump’s daughter was willing to become Jewish, in order that her husband didn’t have to assimilate!
GAW -“Health – Wilshin v. Allstate?”
No, but don’t come back here with more cases. I’m not going to say yes or no. I’m not going to reveal my name. You can reveal your name – if the Mods let you!
GAW -“Until you can show me the case, I have to assume you are not telling the truth”
Sorry – can’t do that! From before -“you know titles of cases are in people’s names. So why don’t you – Do a law search on employment discrimination due to non- accommodation for Saturday observance?”
I’m not advertising my family’s name.
You can assume what you want – I can’t change your assumptions!
LU -“Driving and crossing streets are two of the most dangerous things to do, but no one says it’s assur.”
They actually talk about why it’s Mutter to cross the street.
“But- the fact that it is dangerous does not NECESSARILY render it a clear-cut Issur D’oraissa.”
You’re arguing with most Poskim that say if you’re addicted to smoking it’s an Issur D’oraissa!
“but all the bochurim that I know who smoked only did so for a short period of time”
What do you consider is “a short period of time”?
Ubiq -“”Who says?”
“The constitution.”
What does the Constitution say that they can misinterpret the law anyway they feel?!?
“What is your point? Especially if you do in fact agree with the courts on the one example you cited to show how courts discriminate against Jews”
My point is in Antisemitic places they do it openly, here it’s very subtle!
“So the thousands upon thousands of frum professionals in hundreds of careers who take of Friday afternoon all have nice employers?”
That’s right! Or the employers think that it’s the law, but if they didn’t hire the guy and he took it to court – the employer would win!
GAW -“I don’t like Mrs. Clinton, but I like the possibility of Nuclear War even less.”
Your implication that Mr. Trump will start a nuke war is absurd! With whom will he fight with?
What you should be worried about is Many illegals from Mexico that are here already and that Clinton will let in more.
And also more terrorist attacks like we have now under Obama!
Sam2 -“The main problem you run into, though, is time. If you assume that the 6 days of creation were 6 24-hour periods, there just isn’t enough time for any evolution. The idea that it is heretical to believe that those days were longer than 24 hours seems to be quite a minority, though supposedly R’ Elyashiv did say it”
Why assume that? Maybe the 6 days of creation are 1000 years corresponding to 1 day of Hashem year. 6 days = 6,000 years.
I don’t have a problem with one animal or creature changing form to another, as long that originally they both were created from Hashem.
Ubiq -“It was in fact you who was lying? Or do you want me to start listing jobs?”
Wolf -“I do not have to work Friday afternoons.”
Charlie -“”Name one area of jobs – where it’s Not required to work Friday afternoon!”
“Mine.”
FYI – I’m not going to continue to answer these types of questions that are illogical, from the start!
I think that your whole purpose is to prove me wrong, in order to push your liberal agenda!
But I’ll answer this one!
I was talking about where the job requirements are 9-5, M-F, no option of flex time. If the employer isn’t nice, they could make up any story why they can’t give off!
Charlie -“Care to mention an example?”
Why don’t you read the topic before you come here to post?!?
Start from the beginning and you won’t have such silly questions!
Ubiq -“The court interprets the law. That is their role.”
Who says? If the law says “Religious accommodation” and they said not more than “de minimus”. Who says that what it means? I say no matter what!
I happen not to have a problem with that interpretation, but what I just posted was to make a point!
Ubiq -“What are they supposed to do dmeand all accomodation even if not “reasonable””
No! My point was that the courts should start following the law!
The law says one thing and legal system does another!
You’re in this dream world about this country!
We need s/o like Trump to try and change it!
Ubiq -“however he is not only opposed to “Illegals that arent vetted properly” He is in fact opposed to ALL and that statement was not a “liberal lie” but a fact”
When you stop trying to say liberal propaganda – I’ll try to explain it! He will let in Muslims, but first we need a system to differentiate between the ones that could become radicalized & the ones that believe in democracy!
LU -“For example, smoking can not be compared to not being shomer negiah which is an outright aveirah either D’Oraisah or D’rabbanim l’chol hadeios!”
So what could it be compared to? If you want to smoke you can – it’s really up to you?!?
Ubiq -“I don’t follow the law calls for “reasonable accommodation ” for genuinely held religious belief. Are you saying trump would pass a law calling for all accommodation even unreasonable?”
My point was that the courts aren’t doing what they’re supposed to do!
I think that’s because they hate Religious people, except Religious Muslims!
We need to get real honest Judges, not the system we have now!
“Are you for real? You don’t know of any jobs where people have successfully navigated taking off Friday afternoon? What are you talking about?”
It wasn’t a point about getting off. It was a point how the laws are a joke when it comes to Jewish Religious Rights!
CTlawyer -“RIDICULOUS…you make claims about a case that went to the Supreme Court and won’t cite it. There is no such thing as it has private information. If the case really went through the court system is is public record. This is not a family court case where names and information may be kept secret to protect minors.”
Speaking about ridiculous – you know titles of cases are in people’s names. So why don’t you – Do a law search on employment discrimination due to non- accommodation for Saturday observance?
Then you could back here and tell us that the system isn’t Antisemitic like I claim!
“You have no concrete evidence, you just are slinging accusations.”
That’s where you’re wrong!
“Trump’s call for a TOTAL ban on Muslim immigration is not the same as non-vetted as you now write.”
“You can back upo nothing you have said. In fact anti-immigrant”
Why don’t you read my previous post?
“he holds we can’t let in Any Muslims, until we have some sort of system to differentiate between the ones that could become radicalized & the ones that believe in democracy”
It’s called a temporary ban!
But you like to push the liberal lies!
“I through discussing this with you, it is a waste of time, you appear to have consumed the Trump Kool-Aid”
And you have consumed the DemonCrat Kool-aid! And soon will just be like Europe with all their terrorist attacks!
LU -“All the psychology classes I took were full of evolution and kefira”
IDK, I went to college and the place that evolution was taught was in biology, not psychology.
What school did you go to – Catholic College?!?
Ubiq -“and with such vitriol too”
Are you talking about yourself?!?
“A few months ago Trump called for a “total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States”
Total and complete does not equal only illegals nor does it equal those “that aren’t vetted properly””
Stop pushing the liberal agenda! Stop twisting his words!
If you would know what he actually holds, you wouldn’t push those liberal lies!
First of all, he wants to deport the Illegal Mexicans, not the legal ones!
Secondly, he holds we can’t let in Any Muslims, until we have some sort of system to differentiate between the ones that could become radicalized & the ones that believe in democracy!!!!!
APY – “smoking? nary a word. no asifas, kol korehs, nothing. not even when a young person drops r’l from lung cancer.”
Sorry to disagree! I know of one Yeshiva in Monsey, that truly doesn’t allow any smokers!
There might be others.
I don’t have any money, so I can’t support any Yeshiva, but those that do support Yeshivos, except the one in Monsey, if their support would be contingent on smoking – a lot more Yeshivos would Not allow smoking!
Ubiq -“You think Trump will change that? how?”
If knows about the discrimination against Frum Jews, he’s the type of person to try and change the law; so it would pass the Antisemitic SCOTUS!
“And those fields are the exception, not the rule. To the best of my knowledge, It is only fields where the employee is expected to work 7 days a week and no “reasonable accomodation” can be made to allow person to take off every Saturday (and leave early on Friday for a big chunk of the year)”
Stop with the liberal lies! Name one area of jobs – where it’s Not required to work Friday afternoon! I actually know one, but only one!
CTlawyer -“this is the FIRST time you refer to a ‘case’ that went all the way to SCOTUS and the court did not hold as you seem to think the law requires.
Please cite the case…I’d love to look it up”
I’m sure you would! But I’m not posting the name of the case because it involves private information. Do a law search on employment discrimination due to non- accommodation for Saturday observance.
“He is blatant in his anti-immigrant status…”
Another liberal lie! He’s only against ILLEGAL Mexicans and Muslims that aren’t vetted properly!
kaganys -“There are a lot of choshuve serious bnei Torah that Learn all day that smoke.
It’s not halachikly wrong”
You’re wrong! I listed many Rabbonim that said it’s Osser!
CTLAWYER -“You still have not defined “they” instead you mock the the law and the courts.
The law is a thing, not a “they””
I thought lawyers had a good command of the English language!
For the third time, I know of a case that went all the way to the US Supreme Court that “they” refused to uphold the law of “Religious accommodation”!
At least in some countries they are openly Antisemitic, here it is very subtle!
“But, all of this is a diversion from the thread’s topic, the OP’s accusation that Frum voters who cast their votes for Clinton are unfortunate.”
You have no clue what Trump is all about! You want things to continue the way they are, but Not e/o lives in the American dream like you!
Some people can’t get jobs in certain fields in this wonderful country of yours’, because they are Shomer Shabbos!
Trump’s whole popularity is because he’s anti-establishment!
Things are Not so rosy for a lot of people!
Re-read my posts and I tried to allude to some of it!
LU -“it has affected you for life in both this world and the next.
Tachlis, I don’t think movies can be considered addictive in the way that smoking is, but I think they are much worse”
Why are they much worse? Also, how do know anything about the next world?
I really can’t blame you, you probably were fed this during your childhood!
CTlawyer -“I went to college before there was a Touro and law school before there was Touro or Cardozo”
Again honesty fails you! There was YU and NIRC, which had deals with colleges there.
“You don’t have to prove anything to me, you are a person with only a screen name. BUT you made a claim of ‘they’ and didn’t identify who ‘they’ are…I merely asked you to tell us who the pronoun meant.”
And I answered you! I’ll repeat it -“But law is a joke, all the way upto the US Supreme Court (and recently).”
CTlawyer -“Who is “they”
The law requires reasonable accommodation for religious beliefs/practices. It does not mandate accommodation in all cases.”
I’m well aware of the law. But law is a joke, all the way upto the US Supreme Court (and recently)!
And don’t ask me to prove it! I have proof, but I don’t have to prove it to you!
“I remember applying to college and being told the Jew quota was closed. Now the discrimination (if it exists) is not blatant and open.”
We don’t need the Goyish favors! It’s better to go to a Jewish run school. I went to Touro & they have plenty of Goyim. And most grads get jobs.
Joe -“There is no doubt that Obama seriously damaged America (moral affairs, health care, etc.)”
That’s all you can think of?!? How about all the terrorist attacks during Obama’s term? How about all the illegal Mexicans that live here?
Right now on my block in Lakewood, there only Mexicans, no Jews yet!
All Hillary will do is make it even worse!
CTlawyer -“not be denied employment because of religious beliefs,”
What a horrible lie! I know for a fact that they discriminate against Shomer Shabbos workers!
It was better when they didn’t have all those laws to protect Frum Jews. Now the law is a big joke!
LU -“It doesn’t make sense that you wrote that we don’t go by the Mishna Brurah l’maaseh, and then you are quoting someone who is quoting the Mishna Brura”
You don’t even begin to understand my posts!
We hold like that MB, but it doesn’t come out L’masseh. One is not more Chaviv than the other.
You wrote that the Halacha is “that if there is no chaviv or 7 minim, Haetz comes first. According to the Mishna Berura that is not correct – the next thing we look at is shalem.”
That’s correct. But I’ve been trying to tell you – that most often they’re both whole!
Now why don’t you go back and read all my posts and you’ll see what I’ve been talking about!
LU -“Health, stop quoting the Halachapedia! Not only is it not l’maaseh, it’s not even a source!!!!!”
Yes, it is! On the bottom it lists where they got it from!
“Furthermore, even the Halachapedia doesn’t say anywhere that they usually are equal in shlaimus and chavivus.”
That’s obvious, even you admitted that most people say Haetz first!
If e/o does it, there must be a reason. I just wrote what that was!
“Health, you keep saying ridiculous things that make no sense. You haven’t learned the inyan, yet you keep trying to “prove” that I am wrong. Do you realize that there is something strange about that?”
LOL! You keep proving – Why Religious girls should Not learn Torah B’Iyun!
Abba-S -“Health- Some of the Greatest people (Rosh Hayeshavas) smoked in previous generations. Are you saying that they too are sinners? But you hold that these Saintly Rabbis who smoked are sinners, you are rewriting history.”
Your whole post is Absurd! The length that some people will go to defend smokers & smoking.
First of all, who said smoking was dangerous back then?!?
A lot of sickness is probably from the additives that’s in the cig.
Secondly, maybe it was B’shogeg? Even Moshe Rabbeynu did Aveira.
LU – I’ll repeat the Halachah because you still obviously don’t understand!
Stop posting the MB, because it’s not L’masseh!
From Halachahpedia:
“If neither are Shivat HaMinim and are equally preferred, then HaEtz takes precedence over HaAdama”
They usually are equal in both Shlaimus and Chavevus!
They usually are equal in both wholeness and likeability!
I translated it, in case you don’t understand Hebrew.
Adocs -“But from your exclamation marks it looks like you’re arguing with me.”
I always use exclamation marks. It doesn’t mean anything!
Case after case of infectious disease in the Frum community, due to lack of proper vaccination!
SL – “that he can walk to without getting lost?”
If he’s the type that gets lost, just go next door to the COOP.
It’s a grocery store, with a lot of ready to eat foods!
SL – Btw, as far as I know, there only two of us (Lakewooders) who post in CR, me and Joe. I’d appreciate if you called us by our names.
Acids -“and would you like YOUR child to be one of those to get a disease for which there is a vaccine?”
Unfortunately, there are a lot of Frum people who don’t vaccinate!
From YWN news:
“5 Children Battling A Potentially Fatal Bacteria In Bnei Brak”
Cases of disease that there are vaccinations against!
LU -“Basically, you were trying to pretend that the Mishna Berurah says that the usual case is that Haetz comes first when he says nothing of the sort!! But of course, since you never saw the Mishna Brurah, you wouldn’t know that”
First of all, even if I never saw the MB, which I did, DY quotes it.
Secondly, it never was about the MB, just what you should do practically!
I’m still waiting for the apology!
MA -“YES YIDDEN ARE ALSO CORRUPT R”L not only others”
Unfortunately I’ve experienced some of this corruption!
But I’ve learned most people won’t believe you and the ones that do, aren’t the power brokers in the Frum community!
hiram king of tyre -“(its debatable whether its assur or not)”
It’s Not debatable, just there are a lot of people who are in denial about the fact that addicted to smoking is a big Aveira!