Forum Replies Created
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Posts
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TLIK -“Yet, it gets the blame finger for quite a bit more than it should. I have heard the street, as well as noted rabbonim and roshei yeshivos claim that the internet is the cause for today’s OTD population. This is clearly false.”
It’s a scapegoat! There are so many problems, but they’re all swept under the carpet!
If I’d start listing them – no one would believe it.
LU -“1. Anyone means all people – that means it is a reflection on the Internet and not the specific people.”
Not at all! It’s a reflection on everyone.
This includes Frum Yidden, in spite of your denial!
“In terms of the fact that Internet causes exposure to bad things, the reason you disagree may be because you have a different interpretation than I do as to what “negative things” are. I am referring to ANYTHING that it is better for a Yid not to see if it can be avoided.
For a man in particular, any picture of anyone who is not dressed according to halacha is something that he is supposed to avoid seeing if possible.”
With filtering – you can avoid all pictures – if you so prefer!
“Reading anything that is written by someone who does not have Torahidk hashkafos is a negative thing (I’m not saying that you can’t learn something from it, but it definitely has a negative aspect – you are exposing yourself to non-Torahdik hashkafos and it is better not to be if one can avoid it. It is certainly better for a person’s Ruchnius to be immersed in Torah all day if he can be.)”
Who says? You can learn many things, like medicine, and there is no negativity, even if written by Goyim!
Also, Chazal say Torah without Derech Eretz won’t be able to continue.
(There are exceptions.) But according to you Chazal should have never said such a statement!
“I know that using Internet usually exposes people to bad things because I know this from my experience, and from the experience of friends who were trying to avoid such things.”
So you’re basing your opinions’ about e/o because of a few of your friends?!?
“Regarding filters, many people who work are not able to use good filters for their jobs. That is why my friends ended up seeing things they didn’t want to see.”
So the solution to that – is only to take a job where they have good filters, eg. in a Frum company!
LU -“Health, it was a negative statement about Internet, not about people.”
Why do you keep posting your delusions? “Anyone who does use Internet is automatically exposed to bad things.”
That statement was about people, not the internet!
Did you miss the word “Anyone”?!?
Tznius -“Health – All most schools want is a c but i want a in order to do well and use my knowledge in life and specially pharmacy school.”
I’ll repeat -“don’t retake anything that you don’t have to!”
If you’re lacking in knowledge, the best way is self-studying.
Go look at your books that you already have – study with a computer/internet on the those subjects.
LU -“Health – My statement was a positive generalization since I do think that not using the Internet is a positive thing.”
That’s fine!
But posting this – “Anyone who does use Internet is automatically exposed to bad things.”, is doing just the opposite of positive, which is being Negative!
Tznius -“but what about touro”
If you passed and Touro will accept you in their school – don’t retake anything that you don’t have to!
Lenny1970 -“health, what does “Ackstion” mean. I googled & can’t locate. thanks”
It’s Yiddish for stubborn.
“Abba S., our gameplan was going to be the drafting of a marital settlement agreement (MSA) in Mediation. But you’re saying to go to the Bais Horaah of Lakewood to write up the MSA? I didn’t know they could do that.”
You obviously very naive when comes to getting divorced.
The the whole way a Bais Horaah (ie. Bais Din, plural – butei dinim)
is legally allowed – is because the parties involved sign a Mediation Agreement.
Let me just tell you a piece of advice – don’t go for mediation, whether in court or Bais Din, if you want to stay married.
First insist that we must try marital therapy before anything else!
LU -“Sure I can – if mine are positive and his are negative.”
Stop with your hypocrisy!
For example from your previous post:
“Health – most people who are learning don’t use Internet at all. Anyone who does use Internet is automatically exposed to bad things.”
I don’t think that’s true, especially if it’s filtered.
So tell me – do you think that your post is a negative generalization or not?!?
Ubiq -“whatever you tried didnt work”
Not necessarily because it couldn’t work. But very unlikely that he is in the same situation as I was!
“Health said “do what you can to save your marriage!” And I do agree with him fully. You should do everything you can, but if she wont even talk to you or take counselling seriously, what more can you do?”
Usually when you go to Bais Din, they will try to push the couple into therapy before they do anything!
One of the reasons, is because they want the therapist’s input before any decision!
LU -“Health – my comment was based on some of the things you said. I don’t want to repeat them, so please look back on your comments and you will see what I was referring to.”
I did look back and there is nothing that I said that you could come to the conclusion that I should seek new friends, especially if you were Daning L’caf Zecus!
Unless you think that e/o holds you can’t have internet, even if it’s filtered?!? (Btw, this isn’t true.)
LU -“Lakewood is the worst place for allergies that I’ve ever been in.”
The city I grew up in – is worse than Lakewood. When I moved to Lakewood, my allergies weren’t as bad as before!
Lenny1970 -“I’m not doing the individual until “real” marriage counseling starts. I know some may say why not do individual. For me, it would be a waste of $150/hr.”
I’m divorced and the other posters don’t know what they’re talking about.
Don’t be an Ackstion – go for therapy first and ask her to go for her own therapy. Then you can both go for marital therapy.
“Heath, yourself and others have said a beis din won’t order me to write a get. That’s what I find most puzzling. If this is indeed the case, and it’s also what our sheila rabbi said, then why is she threatening me with this action?”
She doesn’t know what Bais Din will do, and she needs to be pushed into therapy!
Lenny1970 -“She’s threatened to just take her case to the Beis Din to have them order me to give her a Get. I think I’m going to let her threat play out and see what happens. I don’t believe the Beis Din would order me to giver her a Get. In which case we can then go to marriage counseling and she’ll take it seriously; at least that’s my hope”
They never order a Get, unless it’s a dire situation.
It sounds like that you both need your own counseling and then you should both go for marriage therapy, if it’s still needed!
Don’t listen to the posters here – they don’t know what they’re talking about!
WtP -“and then there are all those sandstorms, not great at all for those with respiratory problems”
Even without sandstorms, when I was there, the sand went up my nose.
That was the only allergies that bothered me there. They don’t have too many trees, so my allergies that I have here in the US, didn’t bother me!
LU -“You made it sound like you know all these people who are doing all sorts of bad things on the internet. That’s what I made the comment in response to.”
Next time – be Dan L’caf Zecus!
LU -“I used Cubicles a lot, and there weren’t so many people there. I often had the room to myself and it rarely happened that there weren’t enough computers.”
Did you use it on top of Chemed or elsewhere?
LU -“You obviously know the wrong people. Any time I needed to use the internet and the library was closed, I had the hardest time trying to find someone with internet.”
I know all kinds of people and I wouldn’t call anybody Frum from the wrong kind!
Also, that was probably a long time ago. Nowadays they have a place called Chemed and on the second floor there’s “Cubicles”.
This is just a room with computers attached to the Net.
If a guy made a business out of it, it isn’t just a few!
Btw, it’s not for Baal Habahtim, because they have internet in their house.
LU -“Health, I was also talking about Lakewood. I lived there for seven years and got to know many people there. You obviously know different people than I do. I suggest you change your friends and acquaintances.”
Your perception is not accurate! Where do you buy those rose colored glasses?!?
7 years is a very short time.
And btw, I do know people who wouldn’t go near the internet, but it’s not the average!
LU -“So I guess there can be things we agree on.”
The same thing is in marriage, but the couple have to work very hard to come to some compromise!
LU -“Health – most people who are learning don’t use Internet at all.”
IDK what’s going on in Israel, but I know what’s going on in Lakewood.
Even the guys that don’t have internet in their house, they go to the library or businesses that have rentals per hour for Internet usage!
DY -“I don’t disagree, but the counter theory is that the yeshiva guy is often (not always) in a better environment”
It depends which Yeshiva. I’m not going to go into LH, which ones I think are Not up to par!
DY -“I don’t know that guys who work part time have less internet access”
My theory is – if you have an outlet, then there’s less chance of having unfiltered internet!
LU -“That is actually one of the reasons why someone SHOULD stay in learning or klei Kodesh”
What statistics do you have that people who are learning don’t go to bad sites as opposed to working guys?
LU -“to get through the rough times and keep going even when things aren’t going so well”
Why should there be “rough times”? If the couple does what they’re supposed to do & everybody chips in; there are challenges, but nothing that they can’t handle!
LU -“But it is also possible that Internet is to blame.”
I think that there is now social problems/social pressure than ever before in Klal Yisroel!
Eg. Girls only want guys who are sitting in learning, but a lot of them shouldn’t be.
So now you have a situation where the guy needs an outlet – so a healthy outlet would be working part time & learning part time.
But due to social pressure he stays in the Yeshiva full time.
When it gets too much he turns to the Internet, which is readily available. And then he doesn’t make sure to filter it!
29 -“oh really? Try being a 20 year old bais yaakov girl married to a guy who has gotten all his ideas online
I will not elaborate.”
You don’t have to – at least not to me!
I’m in the medical field which most have some psychological knowledge along with it.
Again they are not irreparable.
But unfortunately the therapists that deal with the Frum community, have to acquire more knowledge, that was once only applicable to Goyim!
29 -“I think you are all forgetting the major reason for the drastic increase in divorces and the irreperable nature of the problems:
internet addiction-specifically inappropriate website”
I extremely disagree!
These problems are not irreparable!
Maybe it’s easier to fall into the problems because of technology.
But it’s the lack of trying to solve problems that is common in our generation!
Like another poster previously wrote – it’s the paper-plate throw away generation.
LU -“Exactly. The theoretical person we are talking about probably does one of the above – that is the point.”
+1
TLIK -“I was challenging the notion that the “Torah” community is more immune to failed marriages and divorce. That is actually a fallacy, but it does feel good until waking and facing reality.”
And I wasn’t disagreeing with that point! After all, the town I live in is called Fakewood.
But, you obviously missed my point!
LU -“Health – TLIK was talking about one particular case. In that case, it was the husband’s fault. That doesn’t mean that there aren’t cases in which it’s the wife’s fault.”
It was obvious. You must have missed the part when I wrote this:
“but I know that a lot of people think that way!”
TLIK -“He conducted his home and family life like a tyrant, being abusive to his wife and children.”
The implication is that men are the cause of divorce!
IDK if that’s what you meant, but I know that a lot of people think that way!
It could be the fault of the woman, without guilt of the husband.
And in my case, it wasn’t either my or my wife’s fault, but of others that got involved!
yichusdik -“As I have written here before, divorce is awful. If it can be avoided, if a marriage can be repaired, steps should be taken and counsel sought be it through a Rav, a therapist or a family member to save it.”
Well said – I agree!
Abba_S -“While they have that days cash receipts at the end of the day it goes into the safe and deposited the following day. The deadbeat doesn’t have a bank account.”
So he keeps it in the safe!
“Also the state can confiscate the business and sell the business to pay past and future child support.”
If the State knows about the business!
Do you really think all Dead – Beat Dads have to leave the State that they live in?
There are millions of Dead – Beat Dads and most stay where they are!
Abba-S -“Okay. How does he own one of these businesses when his licenses to operate either of these businesses are suspended. If caught operating with a suspended license he will be closed down and fined.”
The licenses wouldn’t be suspended, because licenses are issued by the city, not the state!
“This would be very expensive and time consuming making it unprofitable. Because of the large amount of money involved money laundering maybe suspected.”
Paying by credit card is not expensive or time consuming.
Even paying by money orders, the P.O. charges less than a dollar for one.
“Also he will have to keep large sums of cash on hand making him a prime target for robbery.”
All grocery stores have a lot of cash. It’s called a cash register!
“This cuts into the number of jobs he can take and is an added expense making the business less profitable.”
Why does it cut into the amount of jobs he can take? If he hires another professional to do the driving, he can take on more jobs!
And even if it’s an added expense, it’s probably less than the amount he’d have to pay for child support.
Abba_S -“But please explain how he can open a grocery store which is licensed by either the state, city or county if state law mandates the suspension all government licenses for deadbeats.”
I didn’t say Open, but owns one!
“How does he pay suppliers, landlord and staff without bank accounts.”
Easy; credit cards, money orders.
“The same applies to an appliance repair business which must be licensed by the New York City or the county at least for Long Island.”
I didn’t say Open, but owns one!
“How does he go to repair jobs if his drivers license is suspended”
Hires a driver. Takes car services, taxis, buses.
Abba-S -“If he is self employed that means he is getting 1099s which is reported to the state and the IRS.”
What – you just can’t admit that I’m right?!?
Let’s say he owns a grocery store – the customers don’t file 1099’s.
Let’s say he does appliance repair – the customers don’t file 1099’s!
Abba-S -“Getting a job outside of the state doesn’t help because your employer must check your social security number to verify you are legal, informing the IRS who inform the state who then garnish the child support from your paycheck.”
You don’t know what you’re talking about!
The IRS doesn’t do anything, except not giving a return on income taxes owed to the Dead – Beat dad.
If the ex knows what state he moved to – her State can go to the other state and start proceeding over there.
“Miss one payment and they will garnish all future payments from your paycheck.”
Even in the same State – if you’re self-employed – there is no garnishment!
Abba-S -“I grew up when most of the men had numbers on their arm, they were abused”
Again you’re confused! I was talking about the other posters, not me!
Nowadays, whether you have a point or not, they consider verbal denigration as abuse!
A person has to live in the here & now.
WtP -“Besides, they’re all guys, except Kanga, and she has a kid (from a previous marriage???)”
Well – does she or doesn’t she?
LU -“Teenage girls don’t think they are perfect.”
LOL! I wasn’t talking about kids, but those that run the schools, whether Yeshivos or Bais Yaakovs.
LU -“a) people should be taught how to recognize signs of abuse before they start dating.”
OK.
“b) people should be taught how to deal with conflict.
c) people should be taught communication and relationship skills.
d) Courses on these topics should be taught in high school and seminary.”
They should. Who’s gonna implement this?!?
E/O thinks that they’re already perfect!
“e) Chasson and Kallah teachers should be trained in these areas”
I don’t think any of these types of teachers will take on more responsibility!
“From personal experience, my parents’ divorce did not mess us up, and every single one of my siblings got married and had a happy marriage.”
I thought you are single.