Health

DY -“Health (AKA ubiquitin)”

I posted many times – I don’t post on any other SN!

Bais Hillel (AKA Dooms-KUP) -“If the Brisker Rav was alive today he would recognize the truth and he would shout “why are the pro vaxxers harming innocent children”.”

VERY FUNNY DoomsKUP! They should arrest all Anti-vaxxers, for child abuse, just like they did to LEV TAHOR.

Anti-vaxxers will NEVER admit the Truth!
They have been claiming Vaccines cause Autism for Years:

“Vaccines and Autism: Evidence Does Not Support a Causal Association
F DeStefano
First published: 10 October 2007 https://doi.org/10.1038/sj.clpt.6100407 Cited by: 3
Abstract
A suggested association between certain childhood vaccines and autism has been one of the most contentious vaccine safety controversies in recent years. Despite compelling scientific evidence against a causal association, many parents and parent advocacy groups continue to suspect that vaccines, particularly measles–mumps–rubella (MMR) vaccine and thimerosal‐containing vaccines (TCVs), can cause autism.”

doomskup -“The 110k deaths reported globally are from STARVING Children in Third World Countries.
Measles Deaths are Very Rare in USA and First World Countries!”

Another Dooms-KUP LIE!
At the most – only half are due to Malnutrition.
From the WHO:
“Nutrition-related factors contribute to about 45% of deaths in children under-5 years of age.

“Per the CDC, before Measles Vaccine was introduced in 1963, the death rate from Measles was about
1:10,000. The risk of Death or PERMANENT Injury from MMR Vaccine is 4:10,000.
“A more serious side effect is seizure, which occurs in about 1 in 640 children vaccinated with MMR2—about five times more often than seizure from measles infection.”

YOU DIDN’T PROVE DEATH!
Anyways we can treat seizures (epilepsy). We have AEDs. D – doesn’t stand for defibrillation!
Epilepsy doesn’t usually cause Death.

doomsday – “I’ll take measles any day over all of the above!”

Obviously you have NO Morals or Religion!
From the WHO:
“Even though a safe and cost-effective vaccine is available, in 2017, there were 110,000 measles deaths globally, mostly among children under the age of five.”

doomsday -“It does NOT mean 100% unvaccinated”

If you would have looked at the Reference, they differentiate between unvaxxed & partial vaxxing.
I know that I can’t convince you of the truth because you have been brainwashed Years & Years ago!
But stop convicing others, with your Conspiracy Theories, esp. in the Frum community about vaccinations, because YOU Anti-vaxxers are too blame for the Measles Epidemic!

Joe – “Moster is an apikorus”

Who said? YOU?
I think he’s a guy that went out in the world, but didn’t have connections to join s/o’s business and needed to go get an education. It’s obvious that you need a decent elementry & high school to pass College! THAT’S HIS AGENDA!

doomsday -“Yes, all vaccines can cause autism.”

Mr./Ms. Scientist, How could all Vaxxines cause Autism – you know well that they DON’T all have the same ingredients? Oh I know, it’s the needle – cause you puncture them!

Doomsday -“That is why these Vaxxed vs Vaxxed studies are worthless! We need a Vaxxed vs Unvaxxed Study”

How many times do I have to tell you – that JAMA study with 95,000 kids included vaxxed – totally unvaxxed?!? I know it’s hard to accept the TRUTH!
How much $ do you get pushing the alternative meds???

Logicyid -“If you register for public, and don’t send, they will arrest you for truancy.”

I already posted THAT!
See my post Above.

Joe -“wouldn’t actually *send* their kids to public school on the first day of school (or any other day”

Another GREAT Idea! And then what??? If you cost the Goyim millions of dollars & then don’t send them to PS. Do you think that you’ll get away with this? They will hold all those kids as delinquents. Yeshiva education won’t stop the label of delinquency! What do you think will happen next?!?

doomsday -“The Autistic Children got OTHER Vaccines and the OTHER Vaccines are the probable cause of their Autism”

Your mistake is you don’t know how to read the research. Maybe finish high school and then come to post?
In that study they did compare vaxxed – vaxxed, but you keep writing they didn’t compare vaxxed – Nonvaxxed. Read it again & look at the notes, vaxxed to unvaxxed at all, is part of the study/article.

bais hillel -“There is no real dialog or intelligent discussion here on the subject of vaccines, but who can come up with a better insult towards the opposing view.”

Sorry to inform you, but you obviously haven’t read YWN news or the CR! There are numerous articles that discuss the Halacha & medical aspects of vaxxing.

“It’s my way or highway.”

Yes, that’s obvious how the Anti-vaxxers feel.
Because almost all those articles say why Halachally & medically e/o should VAXX!

DOOMSDAY -“Folks, I don’t know how to insert these HISTORICAL Charts but if you google the above statement you can see
that it was NOT VACCINES which caused the decline in Death from infectious disease but:
1. Sanitation (Flush toilets)
2. Clean drinking water (not contaminated by feces)
3. Better nutrition
4. Less Overcrowding
5. Running Water (hand-washing prevents disease!)”

GUYS I hate to do this but these Anti-vaxxers are continously Playing With Peoples’ Minds!
Anyways here’s about Measles:

“HARPOCRATES SPEAKS
FRIDAY, JUNE 20, 2014
Pre-Vaccine Declines in Measles Mortality
On Monday, I discussed “pox parties” and “measles teas”, social gatherings where parents get their unvaccinated, nonimmune children together with another kid who has a disease, the purpose being to intentionally infect their kids and make them sick. It is a practice that, for at least a hundred years, has been decried by the scientific and medical community as a wretched idea, with one author describing them as “orgies of death”. Indeed, in my opinion, these parties are nothing more than child abuse.

While vaccine preventable diseases are not the killers they once were, as I mentioned in passing in that post, they are still quite dangerous; diseases like diphtheria and measles should be avoided and prevented whenever possible. Anti-vaccine activists seem quite enamored with pre-vaccine mortality data. They like to point to the declining death rates from diseases and declare that vaccines not only did not save us from those diseases, but that we didn’t need vaccines anyway. There are a couple of things wrong with this way of thinking. First off, it erroneously focuses on disease mortality and pretends that deaths and incidence are somehow the same thing. The implication is that the incidence, that is, the number of cases, was declining before the vaccines. Or they just come right out and say that death rate and incidence are the same:
Measles cases in all developed countries became much milder than in developing countries mainly due to improved diet. Is it logical that deaths associated with measles declined greatly without any corresponding decline in incidence?
That is, quite simply, false, not to mention sloppy thinking. Second, it ignores the non-fatal, but still quite serious, complications of diseases, such as severe dehydration, pneumonia, deafness, blindness, encephalopathy and permanent mental impairment, among others. And, yes, these diseases can still kill, even in developed nations with good healthcare like the United States.

I will readily admit, the measles vaccine did not contribute to the decline in deaths seen before the vaccine was licensed. (Duh!) But while anti-vaccine activists assert that the disease just got less dangerous on its own, they’re wrong. Here’s why.

As with many of the claims spewed into being by vocal vaccine deniers, I decided to delve into the literature to see what I could find. It’s a practice that, if they adopted it themselves, could save them a lot of time and embarrassment. The graph they like to trot out in support of this particular claim shows measles deaths from 1900 through the 1980s:

U.S. measles mortality per 100,000 population, 1900-1984
Looking at this graph, it’s pretty clear that death from measles declined considerably before the introduction of the vaccine. Death rate remained fairly steady through the first 18 or so years, then started to drop until about the 1940s, where it leveled off quite a bit. After introduction of the vaccine, it dropped to almost nothing. A similar graph, though looking at a smaller range and using a logarithmic scale, shows a similar, though more even and gradual, drop in deaths:

U.S. measles cases and deaths per 100,000 population, 1912-1974 (logarithmic scale)
Source: Barkin RM (1975). Measles mortality:a retrospective look at the vaccine era. Am J Epidemiol.
The second graph also shows that although deaths from measles declined, the incidence, that is, the number of cases, remained quite steady until about 1963, when the first measles vaccine was approved. One other thing to note in this graph. Sometimes, anti-vaccine folks will simply draw a straight line following the general slope of the data and extrapolate that by 2010, measles would not cause any deaths and would be gone on its own. But that ignores changes in medical care that occurred over that span of time, as well as ignoring changes in the slope itself. We see, for instance, that there’s a gradual decline until the early 1920s, then a slightly steeper slope until the late 1940s, with a leveling off in the 1950s. A perfectly straight line just doesn’t fit, at least if one is being honest. We see a precipitous drop in the number of cases around 1963. Notice, also that while death rates had been declining, those also dropped about ten-fold in the space of a few years. Compare that to the pre-vaccine era, where it took decades for an equally great drop in death rates (e.g., 1918-1943 and 1943-1967). That impact is something that you don’t see in the graph favored by anti-vaccine folks.

For this post, though, I want to focus on that gradual pre-vaccine decline in mortality. What should be clear is that although the incidence in diseases did not change before the introduction of the vaccine, mortality was decreasing. Was the virus changing; did it becom less virulent? Did the virus stay the same while we just got better at keeping patients alive? Ask an anti-vaccine advocate what happened, and you’re likely to get an answer that the virus itself was getting less deadly (i.e., less virulent) or that improved diet, sanitation and hygiene are what did it. Or some combination of those two. Period. End of story. The scientific literature paints a slightly different picture (surprise, surprise).

The early part of the 20th century saw a lot of significant changes affecting the way we live. Diets progressively improved, sanitation got better and overcrowding declined. These did have a big impact on overall health of the population. Malnutrition contributes to more severe courses of disease and increased mortality. Poor sanitation can increase the incidence of diseases spread via contaminated food or water, though not respiratory diseases like measles. And overcrowding creates conditions where there are many opportunities for a disease to find new hosts, spreading rapidly. Of course improvements in these areas would also contribute to improved outcomes following infection with a disease. But they only account for a portion of the measles mortality picture.

In the early 1900s and continuing through the middle part of the century, most measles deaths were not from the virus itself. Rather, secondary bacterial infections contributed significantly to the high mortality rate following measles, the most common of which is bacterial pneumonia (Babbott & Gordon, 1954). Common opportunistic bacteria to cause complications were streptococcus, pneumococcus and H. influenzae. In the first decade, there were no antibiotics that could treat these secondary infections, and for a number of years afterward, the antibiotic arsenal was limited. The only control measures available were imperfect attempts at quarantine to limit outbreaks. But given measles’ ability to spread before symptoms appear, such attempts were more or less futile (Curtis, 1916). Outbreaks simply had to run their course, and families had to hope that their children would survive. The advent of antibiotics, however, gave a new tool to drastically reduce the impact of secondary infections. Drugs to wipe out these pathogenic bacteria were a boon to doctors and their patients, allowing for a significant cause of death following measles to be virtually eliminated.

Another medical intervention which had a big impact on measles mortality was the use of gamma globulin. There were essentially two ways to use gamma globulin: temporary prevention of disease or modification of disease. In both cases, it was given to those who had been exposed to the virus. For prevention, it had to be given within 6 days of exposure (Janeway, 1945). If a sufficient dose was given soon enough, there was a decent chance of preventing the infection from taking hold. The good side is, the child would not get sick and be at risk for complications, like death. The bad side is that the immunity would only be short-lived; eventually, if re-exposed, the child could be infected again. For that reason, the dominant recommendation for gamma globulin was to use it to modify, rather than prevent, the illness. A smaller dose or one given too late for prevention could make the course of measles milder, while also allowing the patient to develop immunity to the virus. Although this could make the incubation period for the virus longer, the recognizable disease would have a shorter duration and much lower risk of complications. (Janeway, 1945). Other serum products, predating gamma globulin use, also had potential to prevent or modify the disease, though not as safely or effectively as gamma globulin (Babbott & Gordon, 1954). Modified disease, however, was still transmissible. These products, though, were not particularly cheap and did carry a risk of some serious side effects. They had to be used judiciously.

Another aspect that likely contributed to the declining death rates from measles were fertility and family size. From the beginning of the 20th century until the mid-1930s, birth rates steadily declined, leading to fewer children per family (Guyer, Freedman, Strobino & Sondik, 2000). This pushed the median age of infection off until children were slightly older. The shift in age of infection was hypothesized to have played a significant role in the reduction in infectious disease mortality (Reves, 1985), considering how dangerous measles was for those under 3 years of age (Henry, 1921).

A final factor that likely played a large role in the reduction of deaths from measles, particularly in the first few decades of the 1900s, was the establishment of local health departments and improved access to health care (Guyer et al., 2000). Local health departments could help to educate the populace about diseases and how to minimize the risks of exposure and infection. Over this period, as well, improvements in neonatal and postneonatal care reduced mortality and improved the overall health of infants. Increased access to health care for infants and young children could address conditions that might have otherwise contributed to complications of measles, just as measles could negatively affect the course of other diseases, such as tuberculosis (Babbott & Gordon, 1954).

A couple things that did not change were the virulence of the virus (Babbott & Gordon, 1954), nor the risk of encephalitis, at about 1 in 1,000 cases (Babbott & Gordon, 1954; Perry & Halsey, 2004; Griffin, 2010). And while the risk of death has dropped significantly, it is still somewhere around 1 in 1,000 cases to 1 in 3,000 cases here in the U.S.

The history of measles mortality in the pre-vaccine era is rather complex; it’s not simply a matter of better food and sanitation. While improvements in overall nutrition, sanitation and housing/overcrowding did contribute to improved health outcomes early in the 20th century, they are not the only factors that played a role in the declining mortality following measles infection. Advances in medicine and healthcare, the use of gamma globulin and other serum products, the advent of antibiotics, improved education and decreases in family size also helped to make measles a less fatal disease. However, it is difficult to quantify the exact degree each of these factors played, since we are dealing with historical data of oftentimes varying quality. I would argue, though, that if I had to choose one intervention that has had the most impact on measles deaths throughout history, I would pick vaccination. After all, if you never get infected with it, you can’t die from it.”

Bais Hillel -“My only conclusion from reading these posts on this forum is this: either the pro vaxxers are all brain-dead,or are being paid by Big Pharma to promote vaccinations.”

Why do you Anti-vaxxers always attack others? Oh that’s right – you don’t keep the Torah! Almost every Rov in the World says YOU MUST VAX!!!

“The pro vaxxers would profit more by doing the research and investigation on this controversial subject, than just wait for dooms to open her mouth and then pounce on her like a pack of wolves.”

Another ANTI-VAXX LIE! You see – we actually studied. NO, We didn’t study Homeopathy, but REAL Medicine. You see – Homeopathy doesn’t work, that’s why the Western World came up with Modern Medicine. We went to college and studied. How did you learn about Vaccines? Did you go to High School? How about College?

TO ALL PRO-VAXXERS: You’re wasting your time arguing with Doomsday! S/he obviously has skin in the game. Probably made a career out of this, – by being Anti-vax, possibly selling Homeopathic Junk.

One of my first posts to her/him was – that she/he should get (like a 1,000) of her/his friends to volunteer for the Vaxxed – Unvaxxed Study. She/he HASN’T Responded to this Request. E/o else can’t be denied vaccination!

I think e/o should go to the website called -“Voices for Vaccines”- and click on the article called -“Growing Up Unvaccinated”.
You’ll see why she became Pro-vaxx!

sariray -“Gee… if anti vaxers hate vaccines so much, maybe they would agree to give one or two or even three… but why would they choose to give one for a disease that hasn’t been seen in the US for about 30 years?”

Another Anti-vaxxer LIE!
There’s still a chance to pick up Polio in the US.

From the CDC:
“Polio has been eliminated from the United States thanks to widespread polio vaccination in this country. This means that there is no year-round transmission of poliovirus in the United States. Since 1979, no cases of polio have originated in the United States. However, the virus has been brought into the country by travelers with polio. The last time this happened was in 1993. It takes only one traveler with polio to bring the disease into the United States. The best way to keep the United States polio-free is to maintain high immunity (protection) in the population against polio through vaccination.”

poilkj -“Similarly, the DTP shot was a weakened live vaccine and had to be changed out, like the oral polio, for the inactivated Tdap. This creates the same problem, symptoms in the vaccinated individual are absent, but they can still transmit the virus to infants and other susceptible individuals.”

Another Anti-vaxxer Lie!
That’s Not why they switched DTP to TDaP.
From NVIC:
“DPT vaccine is a combination of three inactivated bacterial vaccines: diphtheria, pertussis and tetanus. There are many different forms and combinations of these vaccines licensed for use in the United States.”

Ubiq -“You keep repeatign false claims that are easy to debunk, and that you would be embarrassed to post if you did 30 seconds of research.”

You don’t understand how people are easily Manipulated. Doomsday is the primary example of this behavior.
Vaxopedia deals with the Lies, esp. the one about Johns Hopkins!
The only solution is to Find out who these Manipulators are and oust them from the Frum community.
We Now have an Epidemic in the Frum communities and these Manipulators are getting away with this. They are the cause of much less Vaxxing, nowadays.
It’s Mind-Boggling what is allowed to go on in the Frum communities!

truthishidden – Only by You Anti-Vaxxers!

“DR ROBERT MENDELSON
If immunizations were responsible for the diminishing or disappearance of these diseases in the United States, one must ask why they disappeared simultaneously in Europe, where mass immunizations did not take place”

Stop with your Lying!
Here are the Facts from the WHO:
The WHO is the international resource on World Wide Medicine:

“Even though a safe and cost-effective vaccine is available, in 2017, there were 110 000 measles deaths globally, mostly among children under the age of five.
Measles vaccination resulted in a 80% drop in measles deaths between 2000 and 2017 worldwide.
In 2017, about 85% of the world’s children received one dose of measles vaccine by their first birthday through routine health services – up from 72% in 2000.
During 2000-2017, measles vaccination prevented an estimated 21.1 million deaths making measles vaccine one of the best buys in public health.”

doomsday – I guess the reason you picked that SN is to show e/o that you’re right when it comes to vaccines. In TRUTH – you’re the biggest Liar & Manipulator on this subject!

“This is PROOF that DTP causes SIDS!”

I’m sure you got your info from Health___ Idaho.
They bring a case where the Plaintiffs won – claiming the vax caused a death.
They bring down this Clown researcher – Scheibner as proof.
Actually – I went to the site and I found this comment:

“I would encourage you to read the last page of this opinion “In this case, I have concluded that petitioners have presented sufficient evidence and testimony to entitle them to compensation in the hen it comes Vaccine Program. I have not concluded that vaccines present a substantial risk of SIDS. In fact, the evidence is to the contrary. “

doomsday -“Still waiting for an answer on why CDC refused to do a RETROSPECTIVE vaxxed vs unvaxxed study.”

Who said they refused?

“And there are ZERO deaths per year from Measles in the United States.”

That’s a blatant Lie! Are you a religious Jew or s/o that thinks he could Pull the Wool over the Eyes of Jews – so they can support this Anti-vaxx Cult?!?

“Health, was this study comparing vaccinated to unvaccinated children?
I want a Yes or No answer, please. Second request.”

Yes; amongst other things.

doomsday -“What exactly does this study prove?”

Again:
“MMR) vaccine did not increase risk for autism spectrum disorder (ASD).
Of the 95,727 children in the study, around 1 percent (994) were diagnosed with autism during the study’s follow-up period. Among those who had an older sibling with autism (1,929), approximately 7 percent (134) developed the disorder. This difference in autism prevalence – between children with or without an older sibling affected by autism – is consistent with earlier studies.”

It also points that Autism is a genetic disorder.

Because of the Influence of the Anti-vaxxers there is an epidemic in the Frum communities!
A kid in Jerusalem died from the Measels so far – I’YH No more fatalities during this epidemic.

doomsday -“Health, did this study compare the autism rate between vaccinated and unvaccinated?”

I understand that you don’t have reading comprehension, but this is in Plain English:

“In the largest-ever study of its kind, researchers again found that the measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccine did not increase risk for autism spectrum disorder (ASD). In all, the researchers analyzed the health records of 95,727 children, including more than 15,000 children unvaccinated at age 2 and more than 8,000 still unvaccinated at age 5. Nearly 2,000 of these children were considered at risk for autism because they were born into families that already had a child with the disorder.”

So you see – Autism is NOT caused by the MMR Vaxx!!!

Doomsday -“We don’t need any vaxxed people to be part of the study. We already know that the autism rate in the general population is 1:59. So all we need to do is study what is the Autism Rate among the Unvaxxed.
So your answer is nonsense! The reason the CDC refuses to do a Vaxxed vs UnVaxxed study is because
the CDC knows it will prove that Vaccines cause Autism and many other diseases!”

You obviously can’t follow Simple Logic!
The Autism rate in the general public would include vaxxed & unvaxxed.

So it’s No problem to do a vaxxed vs. unvaxxed study:
“All they have to do is get the Anti-vaxxers to volunteer to be part of the study. It’s unethical to force people who want the vax to be part of the study. ”