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Ubiq -“In fact I have prescribed HCQ yes with zinc”
What was the outcome, if you know?
What was the way they got O2 – mask, intubation or other?
Was it given on or near the onset of the virus, or later on?
Was it given with Z-pack or not? (Don’t forget I’m against Tx. with Z-pack.)
What was the dosage of each medication & length of time of the administration?
If the pts. were in shock, was 2 steriods given also?OH Charlie, -“You have just proven that you don’t know how to read a scientific journal article. The article in question proved nothing of the kind.”
It’s a shame that you don’t recognize SARCASM When you see it!
“Well thank you for proving that it’s better to GIVE IT EARLY”
The only thing you can observe from that observational study is that Hydroxychloroquine-treated patients that were more severely ill, DIDN’T Do better than Non-treated pts. of HCQ.Ubiq – ”I dont care if what I say is true.”
Everything I post, IMHO, I try to the best of my knowledge is accurate!
OTOH, How many years did you post that my Court Case was never reviewed by SCOTUS?!?Ubiq -“In short you don’t HAVE to back up your claim. but if you want people to listen to you, you should.”
I don’t care if they listen. My own family doesn’t listen. They only come to me, at the last minute.
I post to help people, not to charge. If they listen, then fine, if not, not.As a doc are you going to tell the pts. the ideas from the AAPS, even though (acc. to you) they’re a relatively obscure group?
“Peer-reviewed studies published from January through April 20, 2020, provide clear and convincing evidence that HCQ may be beneficial in COVID-19, especially when used early, states AAPS.”Oh Charlie, -“No difference between those receiving the drug and those not.”
Well thank you for proving that it’s better to GIVE IT EARLY – if you want it to work!
Shame on the States (Like NY) that are making CQ & HCQ difficult for physicians to prescribe or pharmacists to dispense these medications.From the New England Journal of Medicine:
“Hydroxychloroquine-treated patients were more severely ill at baseline than those who did not receive hydroxychloroquine (median ratio of partial pressure of arterial oxygen to the fraction of inspired oxygen, 223 vs. 360). Overall, 346 patients (25.1%) had a primary end-point event (180 patients were intubated, of whom 66 subsequently died, and 166 died without intubation). In the main analysis, there was no significant association between hydroxychloroquine use and intubation or death (hazard ratio, 1.04, 95% confidence interval, 0.82 to 1.32). Results were similar in multiple sensitivity analyses.
CONCLUSIONS
In this observational study involving patients with Covid-19 who had been admitted to the hospital, hydroxychloroquine administration was not associated with either a greatly lowered or an increased risk of the composite end point of intubation or death. Randomized, controlled trials of hydroxychloroquine in patients with Covid-19 are needed.”Ubiq -“unclear why you would charge, for providing a source that sort of backs up your claim.”
Now why do I have to back up my claim? The few pts. that I have dealt with – I Never charged.
OTOH, Doc Zelenco who charges should back up his claim of 3 drugs for Covid 19.
Esp. since there is one study of the 3 drug combo that caused Torsades dP!Ubiq -“This thread wasn’t really about hospitalized patients , we are discussing Dr. Z who treated outpatients.”
I DON’T Care about Dr. Z’s protocol. Actually, I don’t recommend Z-pack, because of one study of the 3 drug combo that caused Torsades dP.
“I naively assumed (hoped?) you had an actual source and weren’t making stuff up again
I was wrong
again”I think you’re in the Wrong Profession – How about STAND UP COMEDY?!?
Maybe your attitude is prevalent among NY Medical professionals?
Maybe that’s why – NY is the Epicenter in the World of COVID-19?!?“Thus far as far as I’m aware there is no guideline or suggestion supporting the use of HCQ for those well enough to be managed as outpt.”
Well here it is – Free of Charge:
“04.29.20
AAPS: Hydroxychloroquine Has about 90 Percent Chance of Helping COVID-19 Patients
Source: Association of American Physicians and Surgeons
In a letter to Gov. Doug Ducey of Arizona, the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS) presented a frequently updated table of studies that report results of treating COVID-19 with the anti-malaria drugs chloroquine (CQ) and hydroxychloroquine (HCQ, Plaquenil).
The AAPS stated:
“To date, the total number of reported patients treated with HCQ, with or without zinc and the widely used antibiotic azithromycin, is 2,333, writes AAPS, in observational data from China, France, South Korea, Algeria, and the U.S. Of these, 2,137 or 91.6 percent improved clinically. There were 63 deaths, all but 11 in a single retrospective report from the Veterans Administration where the patients were severely ill.
The antiviral properties of these drugs have been studied since 2003. Particularly when combined with zinc, they hinder viral entry into cells and inhibit replication. They may also prevent overreaction by the immune system, which causes the cytokine storm responsible for much of the damage in severe cases, explains AAPS. HCQ is often very helpful in treating autoimmune diseases such as lupus and rheumatoid arthritis.
Additional benefits shown in some studies, AAPS states, is to decrease the number of days when a patient is contagious, reduce the need for ventilators, and shorten the time to clinical recovery.
Peer-reviewed studies published from January through April 20, 2020, provide clear and convincing evidence that HCQ may be beneficial in COVID-19, especially when used early, states AAPS. Unfortunately, although it is perfectly legal to prescribe drugs for new indications not on the label, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has recommended that CQ and HCQ should be used for COVID-19 only in hospitalized patients in the setting of a clinical study if available. Most states are making it difficult for physicians to prescribe or pharmacists to dispense these medications.
As the letter to Gov. Ducey notes, “Many nations, including Turkey and India, are protecting medical workers and contacts of infected persons prophylactically. According to worldometers.info, deaths per million persons from COVID-19 as of Apr 27 are 167 in the U.S., 33 in Turkey, and 0.6 in India.”
After Morocco and Algeria began using HCQ, a trend break and sharp reduction in their COVID-19 case fatality rate occurred.
Vaccines and results of randomized double-blind controlled trials of new drugs are at best months away. But patients are dying now, while affordable, long-used drugs would be available except for government restrictions, AAPS states.”Ubiq -““Zinc has to be given for Covid19 even when they aren’t deficient.”
From – The Role of Zinc as an Antiviral:
Blacktowne, Australia
“In similar fashion, severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) coron-
avirus RdRp template binding and elongation was inhibited
by zinc in Vero-E6 cells (60). ”
Covid19 works the same way.
I’m Not your instructor. Ask s/o in your facility that is in ID.
From UCHealth:
“A 2010 study led by University of Leiden Medical researchers in the Netherlands sought to understand how zinc inhibited that replication. The team reported that zinc inhibits a cousin of SARS-CoV-2: SARS-CoV, the original SARS of the 2003 outbreak. Click through for details, which get into the biochemical nitty-gritty, but the gist is that zinc throws a wrench in the virus’s RNA-synthesis machine.”The amount that the body needs for Antiviral activity is more than it needs usually for Homeostasis.
Ubiq -“I’m not sure why you are being antagonistic. Its a legitimate question
Obviously Health is Not a Medical Professional!
Please stick to driving ambuletes and stop dispensing medical advice”Another Lie.
That’s why I’m antagonistic to you!
Where did you get that from? A Hatzola guy from 30 years ago?“didnt answer my question Iasked “Who recommends using HCQ”
BTW, my post was based on the American Thoracic Soceity Guideline.
“For hospitalized patients with COVID‐19 who have evidence of
pneumonia, we suggest hydroxychloroquine (or chloroquine) on a case‐by‐case basis.”Mattusyhu -“I am not a doctor or scientist,…..
You should be ashamed of yourself for using it to promote an idea that Hydroxycholorquine is an effective treatment ”LOL.
YUP. Me & the American Thoracic Society.
Chutzpah Yaskgi!Ubiq -“Recommended by whom?”
Ya’know you should stick to Nephro & Don’t worry about ID.
I posted this in the other topic:From Science Based Medicine:
Proof that HCQ Works against Covid19.
“One minor side effect of the pandemic is that perhaps more people will learn about what drug research and clinical trials can really be like. Today’s example: we have a clinical trial of hydroxychloroquine from Wuhan that has just published on a preprint server. What’s good is that this one is blinded, randomized, and controlled (like the earlier hydroxychloroquine which one I blogged about here from Zhejiang University, so we can actually talk about it rather than just spend all our time wondering what the heck is going on.
This time there were 31 patients in the treatment group and 31 in the control group. Median age was 44.7 years, male-female ratio almost even. Both groups got standard-of-care (oxygen therapy, antiviral drugs, antibiotics – presumably against suspected bacterial pneumonia – and immunoglobulin, with or without corticosteroids). In addition, the treatment group got 5 days of hydroxychloroquine, 200 mg b.i.d. All were diagnosed with (relatively) mild illness, but all had pneumonia by CT scan. More patients in the treatment group presented with fever and cough as compared to the control group.
After five days of treatment, the treatment group showed significant improvements in comparison to the controls in fever, in cough, and in pneumonia (by CT scan). This is actually the first controlled study to show any benefit for chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine therapy against the coronavirus – it may sound odd to say that, but all the positive reports we have had up to now are anecdotal reports and open-label studies without control groups. The one controlled study we have seen, as mentioned, showed no effect.”“source please”
From NIH:
“Individual risk management strategy and potential therapeutic options for the COVID-19 pandemic”“…..Moreover, research has shown that zinc has antiviral effects; it improves immune responses and suppresses viral replication. Therefore, the consumption of up to 50 mg zinc per day may provide a protective role against the COVID-19 pandemic, likely by improving the host’s resistance against viral infection [102]…….”
dasFlamingo -“Coronavirus aside, general life expectancy is almost always higher in blue states than in red states.”
That’s because those states have less Medical Care.
The Major Cities get the most Medical Care in this Country.
That’s because they have More Violence – so they get the Trauma Centers!ZD -“Wont of the worst hit states is Lousiana and thats a red state”
Actually it’s half & half.
From news in La.:
“Orleans and Jefferson parishes — where the coronavirus outbreak first took hold in the state — more than 800 of the state’s COVID-19 deaths have been recorded in the two areas.”Now what do you think the political makeup of those 2 areas are?
Why Do Blue areas have more Virus than the rest of the Country?
Oh I know, they didn’t listen to the Administration recomemdations because it’s Repubican!ubiq -“Are you opposed to using HCQ now?”
HCQ is a recommended Tx. for Covid19.
“OVer the past weeks hospital where I work started checking Zinc levels on patients almost none have been Zinc deficient.”
Zinc has to be given for Covid19 even when they aren’t deficient.
Obviously Ready Now is Not a Medical Professional!NOmesorah -“Dear Health,
Anthrax is not a good candidate as a stealth bio weapon. it is not known for human to human transmission to occur. There is a reliable vaccine.”You don’t need Human-Human contact.
Actually Covid 19 is NOT a good Bio-weapon. The Death rate is usually 1-3%.
Not a good weapon to kill alot of people!
OTOH, Anthrax is very good.
One guy just used it in 2001.Don’t you think the Whole Chinese Gov. could do better than one Guy?
They could kill Millions of people very quickly, before any vaccine would be given!From Wikipedia:
“The 2001 anthrax attacks, also known as Amerithrax from its FBI case name,[3] occurred in the United States over the course of several weeks beginning on September 18, 2001, one week after the September 11 terrorist attacks. Letters containing anthrax spores were mailed to several news media offices and to Democratic Senators Tom Daschle and Patrick Leahy, killing five people and infecting 17 others.”GH -“More discussion and demonizing of China=Less discussion of Trump Screwups….Republicans are smart to advise all their candidates to keep talking about “China” (as distinct from the President’s BBF President Xi) and hand out free samples of lysol at their campaign events.”
More discussion of Trump Screwups = Less discussion of Biden Screwups…..Republicans are smart to advise all their candidates to keep talking about how Demoncrats have Dismembered our Healthcare system!
Not Just Obamacare with VP Biden, but they started under Clinton with Managed Care to save e/o $.
(Wink, Wink)
Also, we should hand out Videos of Tara Reade at our campaign events!Millhouse -“Many web sites claim that #3 can be ruled out because there are no horseshoe bats within hundreds of miles of Wuhan, and they are not sold at the wet market”
It’s called FAKE NEWS!
The reason the Mainstream News have become Like the Enquire Tabloid, because of the Dumbing Down of Americans.
I went on a Net Search about the origins a few weeks ago.
There are chinese researchers that state the Wet market sells Snakes, Civets & Pangolins.
They claim – First the bats have it and they Transfered the Virus to these animals. The Humans got it by eating these Animals!bsharg2 -“#2 For many years now, the lab workers at the Wuhan Laboratory have been taking the experimental animals from the lab (the animals who are sick, etc because they are being used for experiments), and they have been selling those animals as food at the wet market to make extra money”
So that makes it #2 & 3, NOT Just #2!
SiM -“To dismiss the bio-weapon theory out-of-hand is to be blind to the reality of the CCP”
Enough with the Conspiracy Theories!
If the Chinese wants a new weapon – let them do a Space Weapon.
A virus isn’t a good choice, esp. since there’s Anthax & others.Y.Y. -“Health, AFAIK you’ve never revealed your credentials in the CR. You’ve said you work in the health field, but that could be anything from an HCA on up.”
And I responded to you many times.
I won’t give any more info about myself, unless you’re a paying Customer!catch yourself -“I’m not a physician, and I know nothing about the physicians desk reference.”
Don’t Worry – Neither is Charlie!
From my previous post:
“I recommend Zinc + HCQ. BOTH Very safe drugs for a short period of Time!”From Science Based Medicine:
Proof that HCQ Works against Covid19.“One minor side effect of the pandemic is that perhaps more people will learn about what drug research and clinical trials can really be like. Today’s example: we have a clinical trial of hydroxychloroquine from Wuhan that has just published on a preprint server. What’s good is that this one is blinded, randomized, and controlled (like the earlier hydroxychloroquine which one I blogged about here from Zhejiang University, so we can actually talk about it rather than just spend all our time wondering what the heck is going on.
This time there were 31 patients in the treatment group and 31 in the control group. Median age was 44.7 years, male-female ratio almost even. Both groups got standard-of-care (oxygen therapy, antiviral drugs, antibiotics – presumably against suspected bacterial pneumonia – and immunoglobulin, with or without corticosteroids). In addition, the treatment group got 5 days of hydroxychloroquine, 200 mg b.i.d. All were diagnosed with (relatively) mild illness, but all had pneumonia by CT scan. More patients in the treatment group presented with fever and cough as compared to the control group.
After five days of treatment, the treatment group showed significant improvements in comparison to the controls in fever, in cough, and in pneumonia (by CT scan). This is actually the first controlled study to show any benefit for chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine therapy against the coronavirus – it may sound odd to say that, but all the positive reports we have had up to now are anecdotal reports and open-label studies without control groups. The one controlled study we have seen, as mentioned, showed no effect.”Now I’ll talk about why I recommend Zinc!
From my previous post:From NIH:
“Zn2+ Inhibits Coronavirus and Arterivirus RNA Polymerase Activity In Vitro and Zinc Ionophores Block the Replication of These Viruses in Cell Culture
Aartjan J. W. te Velthuis, Sjoerd H. E. van den Worm, […], and Martijn J. van Heme
Abstract
… In this study we demonstrate that the combination of Zn2+ and PT at low concentrations (2 µM Zn2+ and 2 µM PT) inhibits the replication of SARS-coronavirus (SARS-CoV) and equine arteritis virus (EAV) in cell culture. The RNA synthesis of these two distantly related nidoviruses is catalyzed by an RNA-dependent RNA polymerase (RdRp), which is the core enzyme of their multiprotein replication and transcription complex (RTC). Using an activity assay for RTCs isolated from cells infected with SARS-CoV or EAV—thus eliminating the need for PT to transport Zn2+ across the plasma membrane—we show that Zn2+ efficiently inhibits the RNA-synthesizing activity of the RTCs of both viruses. Enzymatic studies using recombinant RdRps (SARS-CoV nsp12 and EAV nsp9) purified from E. coli subsequently revealed that Zn2+ directly inhibited the in vitro activity of both nidovirus polymerases. More specifically, Zn2+ was found to block the initiation step of EAV RNA synthesis, whereas in the case of the SARS-CoV RdRp elongation was inhibited and template binding reduced.”Y.Y. -“Actually, I think the government would be willing to accept a cure from witch doctors if it worked. It’s in the government’s interest to end the pandemic.”
How do you know what’s in the Gov. interest?
Obviously I don’t think the hired workers in the Gov. are that interested in a quick solution.
Maybe the elected officials are interested, but NOT the career employees!
Get it?!?
Your attitude is extremely widespread in this World.
You should Not Believe everything you read or hear or see in the News!
Ever Hear of something called “FAKE NEWS”?!?
It’s easy to call names of other forms of therapy (Your Post – “witch doctors”) than use anything that works.
I actually believe in Both Eastern & Western forms of MEDICINE.
They both have things that work & things that DON’T Work!AKUPERMA -“They caught him dead to rights. First degree political incorrectness. Not supporting the media line that Trump is the root of all evil.”
It’s Not funny. Because his Triple Tx. has probably killled people.
I recommend Zinc + HCQ. BOTH Very safe drugs for a short period of Time!Y.Y. -“Health, why don’t you immediately contact Drs. Fauci and Birx with your breakthrough ideaof using zinc to cure COVID-19?”
Oh Please, where do you think I got that from?
Do a Google search on Zinc antiviral.
Do you think Gov. agencies want a cure from Eastern medicine or from Pharmaceutical drugs?
I’ll tell you – with Pharm. drugs their JOBS are Secure!
Who needs so many Gov. Health employees?!?But I’ll use anything that works as a treatment, whether it’s from Eastern or Western medicine.
Doing my best -“You wanted to know why Dr. Zelenko prescribed zythromycin. I told you why he does it. What was wrong with that?”
Because I NEVER Wrote that I wanted to know!
This is what I wrote:
“There is NO Reason to add Z-pack.”Philospher -“Health, I forgot to ad that you should do research because garlic is known remedy to help for coughs. ”
I took your advice & I researched Garlic again.
Garlic has Antiviral properties; So does Elderberry, Ginger and many others.
The problem I found is that you can’t get enough in those capsules.
On the other Topic – I recommend 200mg/day of Zinc. (Max. 10 days)
This is most probably is enough to Stop Coronavirus & many other Viruses!Doing my best -“Health, azythromycin is to help for pneumonia which is often caused by and worsens the symptoms of coronavirus.”
It’s obvious that you don’t know Medicine, so why are you defending this doctor?
If Zelenco wants to call me – I’ll give him the Medical reason.“I don’t have any agenda, I’m just practicing common sense.”
Are you Sure?
What I posted on the other HCQ Topic: “2nd, I recommend HCQ + zinc, not Azithromycin.”
That is Common Sense, NOT Zelenco’s Protocol!Doing my best -“405 were treated (with 3 drugs, HCQ, Zinc), 2 patients passed away, 4 are off respirators. 5-6 were admitted with pneumonia”
Doing Your Best for Whom?!?
Are you Doc Zelensky? Are you his relative?
His protocol makes No sense!
There is NO Reason to add Z-pack.I posted this on the other HCQ Topic:
“2nd, I recommend HCQ + zinc, not Azithromycin.”Oh Charlie, –
“And regarding the ATS guidelines, you failed to note two things. First, you neglected the following:
For patients with COVID‐19 who are well‐enough to be managed as outpatients, we make no suggestion either for or against hydroxychloroquine (or chloroquine). 18% for intervention, 36% no suggestion, and 46% against intervention.”LOL!
You didn’t Mention it Either!
Your Post:
“Recommendation 1. Among patients who have been admitted to the hospital with COVID-19, the IDSA guideline panel recommends hydroxychloroquine/chloroquine in the context of a clinical trial. (Knowledge gap)
Recommendation 2. Among patients who have been admitted to the hospital with COVID-19, the IDSA guideline panel recommends hydroxychloroquine/chloroquine plus azithromycin only in the context of a clinical trial. (Knowledge gap)”“You also failed to note that those recommendations are dated April 3 and do not reflect updated knowledge.”
Oh for sure – the IDSA guidelines on April 11 is Much Later than April 3.
LOL Again!Here is a Much Newer Study than what IDSA GUIDELINES Were based on:
“In early April, Chinese scientists published a study looking at 62 patients with mild cases of Covid-19. Unlike the French trial, the study was randomized and the treatment and control groups were comparable. The study found a statistically significant difference in the time it took the two groups to recover, with patients who received HCQ showing shorter periods of fever and cough.”Oh Charlie, – “Current Infectious Diseases Society of America Recommendations:
Recommendation 1. Among patients who have been admitted to the hospital with COVID-19, the IDSA guideline panel recommends hydroxychloroquine/chloroquine in the context of a clinical trial”For a Researcher – It sure took you a LONG Time to find this Recommendation!
BTW, my post was based on the American Thoracic Soceity Guideline.
Since it takes you SO LONG to find guidelines – I quoted it HERE:“For hospitalized patients with COVID‐19 who have evidence of
pneumonia, we suggest hydroxychloroquine (or chloroquine) on a case‐by‐case basis.
Requirements include all of the following: a) shared decision‐making
in which the patient is informed about the possible benefits and
potential side effects, b) collection of data in a manner that enables studies that use valid methods for
causal inference and control of confounders for the purpose of interim assessment, c) the patient’s
clinical condition is sufficiently severe to warrant investigational therapy, and d) there is not a shortage of drug supply”NoSaychel -“The Lakewood minyanim have both the Government and Rabbonim approval, someone from outside that area opinions are irrelevant,”
Joe, I thought YWN doesn’t let you have multiple SN’s!
But please stop LYING!
R’ Miller, wrote in his letter about Porch Minyunim, that you need Both Gov. & Medical approval, Not just Gov. approval.
I don’t APPROVE, and I don’t know any medical professional that disagrees with Me!
Instead of posting your Absurd ways of thinking, why Not take a Hebrew language course, so you can understand R’ Miller’s letter?!?Joe -“If the poskim or gedolim disagree with the doctors, the gedolim/poskim prevail and we absolutely follow our Rabbonim rather than our doctors.”
Who are you trying to Manipulate?!?
You have been coming to YWN for years, but have you any success in changing anybody’s mind?
Btw, I’d call you an Apikorus, but you’re Not that Smart!
So Mr. Am Haaretz, if you actually READ R’ Miller’s letter, he wrote Porch Minyunim are only Ok if both the Gov. & Doctors say it’s Ok.js -“so now instead of having one rav ud prefer to count up all the poskim u know of and go with the majority…?… i lost you”
Stop trying to turn things around.
I’ll start at the beginning, R’ Miller – Toronto (top of one of Lakewood’s Bais Din) wrote with regards to Porch Minyunim, if it’s Ok with the Gov. & the Doctors, then it’s Halachally Ok.
See his letter on the Lakewood Scoop.I, as a Medical Professional, say it’s NOT Ok.
Do you know of any Medical Professional that argues with Me?Justsaying -“maybe if you can get a hold of r dovid feinstein ask him for a list of other poskim you can ask ur shaylas to, im sure he’ll have a bunch. living ur life deciding everything for urself unless u can get through to him may not be the best of ideas.”
I not interested in your opinion. Are you Joseph?
When it comes to medical issues, that I don’t know – I’ll ask an expert in that field.
When I had a Shaila about Death Issues, I refused to ask anyone on Chaim Aruchim’s Bais Din, except the Rosh Bais Din.
My point is – asking 4 Dayonim in Lakewood is Not Good enough for Me!Nowadays they have Many Botay Dinim in Lakewood, if the consesus of Most Poskim here, that Porch Minyunim are Ok – I probably would go.
Looks to me – s/o had an agenda & wasn’t interested in other opinions!justsaying -“whered u hear u can just pasken for urself without being a posek i dont think thats even possible, cuz only if ur a posek in the area ur pasekning is it even called a psak no?”
I heard it live from one of the Gedolay Poiskim in America, that’s Not here Anymore. He was originally from Europe.
justsaying001 -“dear health,
just curious if ur not intrested in asking a posek, who is qualified to make an accurate psak based on comparisons to other precendents found in halacha, whyd u even bother comparing it to smoking urself maybe just do what u want based on what u feel the hagdara of safek pikuach nefashos should be?”I understand. But IMHO, the only one capable in the US to answer such a Shaila is R’ Dovid Feinstein.
The last time I asked him a Shaila, I actually had to go to the East Side, he didn’t answer phone calls.
So until I get to him, I have to rely on my own knowlege.
But my question to you & others, how do you rely on your local Poisek for things Life & Death?!?Justsaying – I’m Not a Poisek, but I always heard you can Pasken for yourself. And that’s what I’m doing.
I’m Paskening for myself that Sofek Nefashos is even a far Chasash.
I base this on that Reb Moshe Ztl., held Smoking would be Ossur, if not for Hakol Dushin Bo. A person who smokes usually doesn’t get affected for many years, yet it would be Ossur because of Safek Nefashos.Oh Charlie -“The people who are prescribing HCQ other than in the context of a clinical trial are delaying the time when we will know whether it works or not.”
It’s a good thing you’re just a Researcher, not s/o licensed to practice Medicine.
Why don’t you ask your wife doctor which American society says to give HCQ or CQ, and Not only in a clinical trial?
And don’t come back & tell me that they only did it because of King Trump!
LOL.justsayin001 -“just bc its possible to reach twenty seven feet doesnt mean every time a person breathes it will go that far, it could be a very small chance, perhaps only if its a cough or a sneeze. these slight chances may not be enough to qualify for safek pekuach nefesh, as not every tiny chance that something could lead to death is a shayla of safek pekuach nefesh”
You missed the point! The Rabbonim have already Paskened that you must abide by the Gov. rules, because it’s a Safek Pikuach Nefesh.
All I’m saying is just like 6 feet is Required to keep Halacha, so is 27 feet!
From Above:
“Lydia Bourouiba, an associate professor at MIT, has researched the dynamics of exhalations (coughs and sneezes, for instance) for years at The Fluid Dynamics of Disease Transmission Laboratory and found exhalations cause gaseous clouds that can travel up to 27 feet.”NoSaychel – “you have a disagreement with CDC the opinions are irrelevant unless you move to a new country and follow that country rules.”
So what you’re saying is – When you like the Gov. rules because it suits you, then you can stay in this country. When s/o doesn’t like them – you must leave.
Maybe think before you post?!?
I don’t have to Daven with a Minyun because the Gov. says it safe.
I don’t trust the Gov.’s opinion like I wouldn’t trust YOURS!Gadolhadorah -“over other experimental drugs with equal or greater potential efficacy”
Please tell us, us layman, even though I’m not, which drug has greater potential efficacy?
Do you really think that by talking down to us makes you the smarter one?!?2scents – “Rather let physicians prescribe treatments as they see fit, even if it is an off label use. A lot of treatments are off labels uses and are commonly done in medicine.”
I’d agree with that in a Normal world. But what’s going to happen, in NYS it’s already happening, they don’t fill Scripts for Covid19. Also insurance will decline payment for tx. of Covid19!
Mattisyahu -“The FDA has to made medical decisions outside political concerns.”
But do they?!?
Nosaychel -“the CDC and NIOSH rules are the guidelines used the USA and have been since 1946, you don’t like that then move to another country.”
They might be the rules; So what?
I assume that you’re an Orthodox Jew because you post on this site.
Did you move to another country when they legalized Gay marriage?!?NoSaychel -“No Health, I know you know better when anyone who works for the CDC, what are your credentials?”
I simply don’t have to give you my credentials, unless you are going to pay me.
But I did post an opinion from Lydia Bourouiba, an associate professor at MIT, who, IMHO, knows more than anyone from the CDC!Mattisyahu -“Saying people will try to disprove something because Trump said it, means you have to suspect that others will try to prove something because Trump said it. Basically, your very criticism negates what you are trying to argue for.”
Not at all! This whole topic started Because one Doc named Zelenco decided to use it. Trump should have never said anything about Covid19 treatment.
He’s a Baal Gaivah.
I tried many times to sway the topic, but to No avail!
What Trump should have done was demand HCQ to be approved from the FDA for Covid19, from the evidence that I posted above.
As as a matter of fact, the insanity from Gov. agencies to get anything approved is Not Normal!
At least the FDA should approve HCQ as an emergent treatment.RE – “health, isn’t this like immune therapy for cancer?”
No, it’s not.
It’s a primitive form of therapy that was developed in the late 1800’s!But since I’m not an Oncologist, I looked it up for you.
From Cancer.gov.:
“Several types of immunotherapy are used to treat cancer. These include:
Immune checkpoint inhibitors, which are drugs that block immune checkpoints. These checkpoints are a normal part of the immune system and keep immune responses from being too strong. By blocking them, these drugs allow immune cells to respond more strongly to cancer.T-cell transfer therapy, which is a treatment that boosts the natural ability of your T cells to fight cancer. In this treatment, immune cells are taken from your tumor. Those that are most active against your cancer are selected or changed in the lab to better attack your cancer cells, grown in large batches, and put back into your body through a needle in a vein.
T-cell transfer therapy may also be called adoptive cell therapy, adoptive immunotherapy, or immune cell therapy.
Monoclonal antibodies, which are immune system proteins created in the lab that are designed to bind to specific targets on cancer cells. Some monoclonal antibodies mark cancer cells so that they will be better seen and destroyed by the immune system. Such monoclonal antibodies are a type of immunotherapy.
Monoclonal antibodies may also be called therapeutic antibodies.Treatment vaccines, which work against cancer by boosting your immune system’s response to cancer cells. Treatment vaccines are different from the ones that help prevent disease.
Immune system modulators, which enhance the body’s immune response against cancer. Some of these agents affect specific parts of the immune system, whereas others affect the immune system in a more general way.”
NoSaychel -“Health, the CDC guidelines , are 6 feet, standing at the same distance as they do at Walmart, Target Etc”
They also sell Pork. Do you do everything the Gov. allows?!?
I believe the WHO & the CDC are Wrong!
From USA Today:
“The novel coronavirus has prompted social distancing measures around the world. One researcher believes what’s being done isn’t enough.
Lydia Bourouiba, an associate professor at MIT, has researched the dynamics of exhalations (coughs and sneezes, for instance) for years at The Fluid Dynamics of Disease Transmission Laboratory and found exhalations cause gaseous clouds that can travel up to 27 feet.
Her research could have implications for the global COVID-19 pandemic, though measures called for by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the World Health Organization call for six and three feet of space, respectively.”