HayyimOvadya

Chein, based on your last paragraph, then, it would seem that part of the problem is demand-side, which seems to be something that gets lost in the mix when people focus on the upper hand of the males.

DaasYochid,

So if they younger guys are discouraged from dating, and (as it seems from earlier in this thread and others) there’s little impetus to have the 18-20 y.o. women actively hold out until they’re older themselves, then it would seem that (1) looking to the Hassidim as a model for close-in-age shidduchim will be of limited benefit, and (2) it will be an uphill battle getting 22-23 y.o. guys to marry close in age, since 18-20 years will be actively competing. Age bias doesn’t necessarily even come into play if you assume that for the individual 22/23 y.o. guy, most of the “top”/”good” women his own age have already married and so his choice is between the remaining close in age women and the “good” women from younger years. At present, there wouldn’t even be enough close-in-age women for them all to marry within 1-2 years if they wanted to, given that the women their own age have already been dating 2-3 years. Close-in-age/older as a direct strategy might still be very successful with the remaining “older” guys, or, if the 25+ women don’t have a problem with 22/23 y.o. guys, you can get the younger guys to date specifically older and not just close in age.

Does anyone have any information on the demographics of the “older” women? E.g., do they tend to be from poorer families? To they tend to get more or less education after high school/seminary? Or is it completely random?

Also, does anyone have any data on BTs (or gerim) who become members of Yeshivish/Litvish communities? How does the shidduch system for them deal with the fact that many haven’t (and likely aren’t going to) go through the BY – Seminary (- College?) or Yeshiva HS – E”Y – U.S. Yeshiva system? How and with whom are they set up? What happens to the women who become BTs when they’re already “older”?

1. What are the demand side issues? Age gap has been mentioned as a problem of men wanting younger women, but is this a one-way street? Do women also prefer older men (at least until they’ve become “older singles”), and if so, will encouraging the guys to seek close-in-age or older women do much if a bias against close-in-age or younger men persists?

2. It has been mentioned that Hassidim have more close-in-age shidduchim. How else does their system differ? Do more men work? Do they spend a shorter time learning in the late teens/early twenties? Is there the same expectation that in-laws finance long-term learning? How do these differences affect the men’s ability to start dating sooner?

(Hypothetically, if Hassidic men start dating at 19-20, but also start working and don’t expect their in-laws to finance long-term learning, then there will be a smaller age gap, but there will also be different expectations about what the kallah’s family brings to the table financially and about the relative status of learners vs. earners. In fact, the smaller age gap will be an effect of these other considerations, rather than an independent factor affecting their shidduch outcomes, so simply looking at their culture of smaller age gaps without also considering the other components of the system won’t help much.

Again, I’m a ger and an outsider to this phenomenom, so I really don’t know the ins and out of the Litvish vs. Hassidic systems and whether the hypothetical in #2 reflects reality.)

For those suggesting that the ladies look at less frum men, what kind of gap are people suggesting? Assuming that the young women are Litvish/Yeshivish and lekhatehila would want someone similar, are we talking kippa sruga (no black hat) at an out-of-town Young Israel types? Avi Weiss types? “Traditional” conservative? Regular conservative? Reform?

Laker,

Would those numbers reflect actual proportions of singles or just the number of people of each gender putting themselves out there?