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Disclaimer: I am a frum yid, who would consider themselves “yeshivish” and not MO (no t.v., no going out to movies, no secular music, black hatted men and women covering their hair/BY educated ect). Getting back to some comments that were mentioned in the previous pages: Why is it a problem for women to learn, or men to “not learn anything that questions your faith”? I know plenty of people who love to learn (including me)- leaving a question blank would seriously put a damper on my hashkafa. If I had a question on something, whatever it is, I would need to fully learn it out and solve my issue. I could never take the teacher who said “no more questions” or “next question” whenever a serious question was brought up.
By not learning to answer the question, the question still remains. How is it ok to live being a Jew with deep questions? Are we now promoting robots? Robots with no understanding except how to do the task at hand? Robots- who can’t even dream of anything except robotic sheep? (ok, had to put that one in there. =))
About a question posed even earlier- women learning torah: How can we allow them to raise children without knowing what our beautiful religion is all about? Are we promoting illiteracy in tanach? Some posters commented how it would be better for women to learn to make a decent potato kugel or other domestic skills than to learn. Wait- is a women only the sum of her potato kugels? What a generation of lame men we are bringing up here who only care about their stomachs. Can a women be prized for her personality, middos or brains? nope- only her kugel. Better to be able to iron your husband’s shirt than to be able to understand krias hatorah in shul. what kind of children will she be bringing up? Didn’t Sarah Schneirer set up the BY movement because of this exact train of thought? That women were not getting the education from Torah, so they turned to secular philosophy (socrates, plato and the like). In this generation, women need to be taught just like the men. Women need the intellectual stimulation- very few women out there would be happy just learning to cook and not learn a good pshat or a nice ramban. why else would so many women take the time out of their hectic schedules to go to shiurim, listen to tapes or pick up seforim?
😕
A: No answer. I recalled this one when I saw the previous riddle… its a paradox and there is no real way to answer it.
I have not been keeping up with the riddle page so I don’t know if this one was said…
A sign on a barber’s shop says “I only shave those who do not shave themselves”. Does the barber shave himself?
About other days that are good shopping days- December 26th- 31st. Yes, the stores will be crazy with people who are returning unwanted gifts but less crazy than today. But also, less deals and less advertising on it… but at the same time, it is the last chance for stores to get a few sales before the year is up. Every year is different, but then, sales throughout december are decent (not like black friday but better than buying it in April) and sometimes less mayhem.
Possibilities are endless
I have had this before… how to conduct yourself may depend a little on what your job is. For example, psychologists/social workers may have more trouble because they need to “join” (jargon term)with the clients to be able to help them.
Some people really understand and think highly of you for it- just say “for religious reasons I don’t shake hands with people of the opposite gender except for immediate family and spouses”. I had someone sincerely ask me what religion I represented and they were completely fine with it. They might ask you a question and just respond truthfully without making yourself sound “wacko” or “holier than thou”.
Sometimes you have a feeling you won’t be understood. In that case hold a resume in that hand (good to be prepared with that as well). You might want to hold a tissue in your hand and apologize for being under the weather. This works well if you are on an interview or first day on the job, when you may have to shake many hands… I have had this experience before and found being honest, sincere, but not aloof works best! good luck- it can be uncomfortable at first until you practice your “speech”.
go(es) fly a kite
so because they cannot be mature, we should pay for them to vacation? Just because they will be “more spoiled” here in USA we should pay for them to go? what does one have to do with the other? Grow up boys and girls! Its hard to live here? try living anywhere else, in any other generation!
minyan gal- yes, its true that children’s clothing do not always accommodate for physical maturity but I know this lady (I have gone shopping with her actually) who does shop in the kids department, especially for skirts. Also, she shops at teen stores- she really has a hard time! too bad you don’t have the same shops as the US- I really was hoping I could have some advice for her. She also eats high calorie food and stays away from the word “diet” as best as she can…
what kind of craziness has this world come to? HOW has our world come to this? WHY should this be so? WHEN has it ever been this way? We value history and historical precedence so often- named one time when this was true! Since when have we gone “because the Jones (or weiss or shwartz) family does it we have to too??
Meir- this is why there is a shidduch crises out there. and a reason so many yidden turn to criminal acts. and a reason so many Jews have medical issues like depression and heart attacks at young ages (around when kids are getting married?)— people cannot afford it. Rabbonim are giving prices out to their talmidim (you are worth X)- how can we label someone with a price? Why am i only worth X years support but not a car too?
I still cannot understand this. I have been trying to wrap my head around this for years now- why? why? why?
tzippi- I said talk to your doctor. There is more than one type, depending on how severe the case is. I am not a doctor, nor profess to be one. I am only talking about obese (underlined) people- which normally is over the “50 lb mark”. I know someone who lost 100+ (probably closer to 150 or 200) pounds, still is quite chubby but is ok with that- she did it for health and not beauty. She told me that she is glad she did it- now she’ll be able to dance at her kids’ chasuna and doesn’t have the same health problems. I know of a male who had it (someone I know’s husband) and he is also glad to have gotten it.
Oomis- not everyone who is a size zero has an eating disorder! It depends on height too! someone who is 6 feet tall shouldn’t be a 0, but someone who is just breaking 5 feet could very well be, and be healthy being that way! Stop with the generalizations….like I said, I know people on both extremes and it is not easy either way. Would you like being 20-30 and someone asking you what high school you are going to next year? seeing an 8 year old wear the same clothes as you are? this lady is self confident, but still sometimes gets crushed when people are so demeaning…if you think someone is older than they look, don’t ask what high school they are going to- ask where they are up to in life.
minyan gal- I agree with you wholeheartedly. where do you shop in general? (don’t have to give away your location if you say secular store names) I know a few people who don’t even make it to the 98 lb. mark… and they are not anorexic at all! They have to shop in kids clothing stores (even when they are double the age of the kids shopping there), pay for $$$$ alterations, or even sew their own clothes! yes, we wish we all had that problem but from what I hear it can be a real toughie…
Why all the pity for those who can’t or wont lose weight and none for those who can’t gain any? or never got a growth spurt due to genetics?
On a more serious side note, for those who are obese there is something called a gastric bypass. Ask your doctor about it- it isn’t a cosmetic procedure and people I know who have got it done say it changed their life (and I know several who had it). No complications, no more diabetes, other major health concerns are gone, and they feel 20 years younger because they can now walk to shul without passing out. Those who have had it are so glad they did and wish they did it earlier- and they recommend it!
Aries- it is not called being “unspoiled” (if that is even a real word). It is called being an adult, something we do not teach our children how to be. Even when those children are considered old enough to be married and raise their own children. Don’t deny little kids some “extras” in life for the sake of “preparing for adulthood” or “preparing for chasunah”- but we should make our children self-sufficient adults! Since when has it been ok for parents (or grandparents) to be paying for their children’s expenses??? I know plenty of people who were told “if you are old enough to get married, you are old enough to support yourself”. This is not getting into the learning/working debate, rather into a self-supporting one.
Who cares zaidy if “rich in E”Y are living a simpler life than in USA”? it is their choice to live where they want, as far as THEY can afford it! I am tired of children planning out their future based on what their parents can contribute to the couple. they are not children anymore and lets let them grow up!!!
1. Have some self control.
2. Teach your kids to be smart and eirlich.
3. Have your cell phone provider block it- you can block texts, internet (one or the other…). You wont get charged for clicking “internet button” but then you don’t get any internet. you get a little sign saying “sorry, but for some reason we can’t access. try again?” You are not charged any more per month and it only takes a couple of minutes at the store. Dont bother with those kosher phones- its a ripoff and you get poor service. ATAT and Verizon have both done it for people I know and they are happy with the blocking. no texts means incoming and outgoing too… someone with texts tried texting someone next to them that theirs was blocked to prove it doesn’t go through at all…
why have a blackberry if you are going to filter it? Just get a normal cell and stop going after chukas hagoyim!
I have not been on in a while but saw this topic and wanted to clarify something. Read anything from that time, almost anything, and it will have the word “G-d” or another religious term. Read the declaration of independence- “We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by THEIR CREATOR with certain unalienable rights…” and that’s just off the cuff…I am sure if I thought harder I would find more.
Try saying that today in government offices- it was the way they spoke back then. So, all references to religion have to be put into context.
Thanksgiving is a day just to thank the govt for allowing us to live here. No religious connotations, especially today. Say thank you USA for being a medina of chessed…
And goodbye- when have people ever taken a transliteration as fact? Israel as a country with its own secular calendar has not been around all that long. I am not saying it isn’t about Sylvester (the cat…=)) but find a better proof. And the 25th and 1st is a whole lot different than Thanksgiving- hey, only in AMERICA do they celebrate turkey day!?!?! Not even where the Anglican Church was founded do they celebrate it! (most cultures do celebrate the 25/1st, so that is different.) It can’t be a church holiday if 3/4 of those who belong to the religion (probably less than 3/4 are american) dont observe it!
Just a couple of points from someone who is thankful not to have been kicked out of this country yet… and happens to like turkey with cranberry sauce.
smh1- you should also talk to girls who are a year or two back- the seminary should not have changed so much in a year or two, their memories will be fresh and their “heads will be down from the clouds”. Just an idea…
Bais Yaakov Mezuraz- for those who want to know about it, it is a real good idea. the girls get to be there for the summer, tishrei (and are not jet lagged there) and part of the winter, I believe. I am not sure exact months. They are able to grow and learn there… The menahel is AMAZING. He cares about each girl, much like a father for the sem. If someone has a problem, they can go to him. It is an amazing place, worth looking into.
I know about AIM from people who have used it in the past. Yes, the head doctor is American, so that is wonderful. He speaks in clear English and is understandable. Going to Israeli places can be problematic if they dont speak English… The problem with AIM lies with needing help for something that is a “prior condition”. Someone had a condition that was completely cleared up and had no issues with it until she came to seminary. Because of the types of trees, flowers, air quality ect there, it flared up a little. They did not want to pay for a prescription since it was a prior condition even though her medical form said “cleared up, not present, no complaints about it for years”.
Besides that, they will do flu shots at an extra cost (it came out to about $20), which other companies may not do.
Don’t most seminaries make you take a specific company? Same with cell phone companies and seminaries- no real choice here.
youdontknowme- and those who are parents should not be creating this disaster!! It causes such tzaaros to the girls and their families. I know someone who is not stick skinny and since she is not married there are many who decide that it is because of her weight. Come on! Weight should not be a reason not to go out with someone! (I am not talking about extremes here.) those who are mothers out there- dont be putting these artificial barriers on the strained shidduch scene! Dont cause girls to have eating disorders! There are many who do have issues because of this very reason- why should “nicer pictures” be the cause? I mean, if someone is a size or two off from your “ideal” then will that really have an effect on the marriage? a 4 instead of a “0”? a 6 instead of a 2?
Change the requirements or the shidduch scene will have more to deal with. Would you want your son marrying someone who C”V has an eating disorder? Who starved themselves to be a 2?
(there are those who are skinny naturally and dont assume that if someone is a 0 it is because they have an eating disorder. Genetics, good habits and walking to school/work are all reasons why someone might be a 0.)
If you think that the level of English education should be left “as is” then please look at the quality of posts on YWN. Some are written in an enlightening way and are clearly understandable. But, on the most part, the younger, yeshivish/frum population do not know how to read, write and think critically. They are unable to do basic math and are stalled by the most basic of basic science and history questions. I have stepped foot into a middle school Chol classroom and was appalled by what I saw hanging on the wall. The students were asked a question and had to respond in paragraph form. Firstly, the spelling, punctuation, and grammar were atrocious! The teacher corrected them but did not make the students re-write it or lower their grades because of it. Additionally, 99% of the students all wrote the same exact response to the topic. Obviously, the teacher had told them what to write and then they all copied it word for word. This needs to be rectified. Yes, they do not have to be able to analyze War and Peace. But we do need more emphasis on the basics. We are doing a big disservice to our children otherwise. How else can they work in the real world if they cannot read and write?
youdontknowme- but saying someone is on “the thin side” is pretty relative.If, (I have no idea who you are, and this is just an example so please dont take offense) you happen to be a 300 lb guy then someone on “the thin side” would mean something different than someone who was a yardstick. Naming sizes is ridiculous. Would you outright ask someone what size they were? or if you happen to find a girl attractive who you later find out is a size 12, would you not go out on another date?
There is nothing wrong with anyone saying that they find a type attractive. when we get down to the nitty gritty numbers and say that you wont even go out with someone who is a size X, then we have our priorities mixed up. Many boys, like yourself, note that they dont know women’s sizes. so then, we should not be telling the shadchan what size you are, but rather “thin, medium…” anyways, how do they know if someone is a 4 or a 6? an 8 or a 10? come on, are they asking to see the size shirt you are wearing when you meet them now?
In case people did not get my sarcasm, I was trying to say that the LIST is wrong to have. It is one thing if one side was very short or tall- they may not feel comfortable with someone 1 foot shorter/taller than they are, but at the same time I know happy couples where the wife is over a foot shorter.
tzippi- I wasnt intentionally leaving out 8 and 10, i just did not bother to write out every size i think is acceptable because there is “no acceptable size”. As long as they are healthy, that is all that matters. If he or she is as tall as they are wide, then that would be one thing. It all depends on their height and body build and that is not up to me to decide, or up to anyone else to either. We should not be instilling within our children that weight is something we should concentrate on. But this is not the point of the thread and I dont want to get too sidetracked.
SHOSHANIM SEMINARY
If anyone has any questions regarding the seminary, please post them and I will try to answer and if I dont know, I will try to ask someone who does. I know many young ladies who have gone in the last couple of years and they were extremely happy with their choice.
Here is the contact information that was asked for. If for some reason it does not work, please let me know and I will try to contact someone else.
Email: [email protected]
USA Address: c/o Mrs. Judy Baum. 2 Miriam Lane, Monsey, NY 10952.
Tel (845) 352-6464.
Fax (845) 352-6617
***They have said that they will send brochure/applications for people who are considering applying. They realize that not every school has every application (or has enough for all those who are applying).
Being home for sem is very different than being away. One, you can learn with a blank mind, able to absorb a lot more since you dont have the same pressures as being at home (learn instead of babysitting your sisters), learn from brilliant teachers (that you didnt have in high school).
Two, making friends that can last a lifetime, is important. they can help you with life’s struggles for years afterwards. Many people have real struggles and these friends can help one through it. I know someone who if not for her sem friends who care deeply about her and all I dont know how she would be able to manage. The girl told me that her high school friends are not in touch the same way.
Three, the reason BYs were created was because sarah schneirer found that mothers were not able to teach their daughters like in the olden days. Maybe in the sephardic ones they are able to, but it seems like in the askenazic world girls really do need to go learn in schools. Yes, they can learn to cook and clean from their mothers but is that all motherhood is about?
Four- sem has to be treated as something different that 12th grade. It isnt 13th grade. It is a year to package up all you learned, like take a mashal of a computer. You built a computer for 12 years, drilling the oil for plastics, creating the computer chips ect. Then you want to give it so you make all the final upgrades, add some extra software and RAM, and boost the speed a little. Then you package it with wrapping paper and a bow. Sem is that last stages. At the beginning they work hard to add the extra RAM and software. Then, the last couple of months (purim to the end) is about the packaging. What to take with you for life. How to apply all you learned in the past. It is very different and can change a person for life.
Less academic does not mean that they do not learn. You have to ask about the sem individually. There are some sems that people consider to be less academic and that is because they sit much longer in class and get less homework and papers. Some seminaries like BJJ or Hadar tell the girls to learn the entire sefer shoftim on their own with several meforshim in a week. Ok, if I wanted to do that I would stay in America and do that. Some seminaries say you are here to learn from the teachers rather than on your own, so you have really long hours of classes, but once you are done with those, the homework is less. You still have papers and assignments, tests and quizzes to study for, preparation homework ect. You can still learn a lot without being in an “academic sem”. Some girls like the intense cramming feeling every week with memorizing a sefer in tanach on their own. Some girls dont. It doesnt say anything bad about a girl for being in either category, some learn better under pressure and some dont. I personally would rather sit and absorb from brilliant teachers because otherwise, why am I there? so someone could assign a sefer for me to learn on my own?
OK, now the job is to find out which sem falls where. Also, when asking about shidduchim dont cut a girl off the list because her sem isnt the most “academic”. it could be one that they learn tons, but in class instead of on their own.
maybe we should shrink “THE LIST” that we must have in a spouse… like the color tablecloth they have in their house, do they have plastic covering it ect. Or what size the girl is… up to a reasonable point. extremes on either end are understandably something to ponder, but the difference between size 0, 2, 4, 6 are minimal and some could be height. size 6 can be the healthy weight for a girl while those who are a 2 may be starving themselves for a date. Weight may only last till the wedding pictures. or the first kid.
If we look at who the person is inside, what their hashkafos really are and not what people say are “symbols” at what they are (type of tablecloth they use), maybe more dates can be made and more possibilities will be open and they might be the correct one!!
IY”H we should only share in simchos here!! No more taaros amongst klal yisroel!
This is a good idea as there are people who can give/get help for their children based on real experiences. I had issues in elementary school where I didnt fit in with the class… hashkafically we were different, they weren’t as frum and careful about certain mitzvos as my family was ect. Note to parents: even if it may be difficult, dont tell your children that “one more year and then you’ll fit in” or “just get used to the place”. Really look at the school to see if it is the right fit. Just because one kid in the family fits in, the education is wonderful…just remember that there is more to a school than textbooks. While that is a major part and you should not send your kids to a place that turns out illiterate and uneducated students,pay attention to the type of kids that are in your kid’s class. Sometimes it is the class that is problematic and maybe you can switch classes for the kid. Switching schools may also be a help. But if this is not possible, make sure that your kids hang around after school with the right type of students. And have a strong home where your kids learn to say “no” and “we dont hold by that hechsher” or “we dont watch that/do that sort of thing” in a polite and proper way.
Jothar- but without the gvir’s accountant, the money would not be given out…either at all, not as much or not as steady. In the same way, there needs to be a soldier to direct the bullets. Each has its own role and job. Each one is as important and without one part it would be hard to get the job done.
The case that I know is not extreme. The girl was probably never away from home for more than a shabbos or school shabbaton weekend. That is the type to be worried about. It is not extreme, just abnormal that someone in today’s world should be in such a situation. But now the divorce is tearing the families apart… the girl could just not handle being away from home.
If the guy/girl went to college and lived independently from their folks, that would be the same (or even better) than seminary. But if someone wont be going to seminary out of the area they are most likely not going to be going to a university out of the area.
I never said that if someone is homesick in sem they will be when they are married. I just said that if they never went away for 9 months, how likely is it that they will be able to live out of state from their parents? Yom tov not with their parents and siblings? The first time was a biggy for me and many of my friends. But the next time they were away they were able to deal with it and were not crying from homesickness. First times are always hard. Let them get their first time when they are not going to endanger their marriage when they will be going to his side instead of hers.
Going out of state/to montreal will do the same thing, especially if they will not be going home for every shabbos, yom tov ect.
Why dont they just play classical or jazz or something without words. pure tunes and then there wont be a real problem. The tunes are the same anyways. Let the goyim think its there songs, and us ours. I personally have something against some of the modern “jewish” (purposely in quotes) songs. They sometimes sound more goyish than what we could hear on the radio! THOSE tunes give me headaches!
luv2laff- some of it is about the name. “I went to BCD”- kind of similar to those who brag about going to ivy-league colleges like harvard or yale. dont go to sem just to write on your shidduch resume I went to “hijklmnop”. dont waste your parents money, your time…
A seminary, according to some, says a lot about the girl. From their perspective on materialism to frumkeit… At least where they were before seminary. I dont think it is a good measure of where they are a few years out and how they will be in the future. It really depends. Yes, they could have gone to Ivy league sem and been really frum going in , and they will be really frum coming out. Or they could have gone there and not been but are coming out. Or they could have gone somewhere else and been even frummer. Seminary name does not say the full picture. it is ridiculous that there are those who say “I only want to marry a girl from BCD or hijklmnop and no others”…
Go for the right reasons. Some are meant to be in the “ivy leagues” and some are not. no pressure to go there if it is not for you.
Realize, each seminary is a little different and should be considered for its maalos. some are more like a home, some change the sem for the girls and their interests, and some (i hate to say it) are like factories.. 150 girls in, 150 girls out and they keep to the same program. Check into the sem. ask girls who went “did you feel the warmth (if you want it)? did you feel that the sem was different from what years past had? do they ask the students what they are interested in? which guest speakers/topics did they feel touched them more and do they want again?”
anon- yes, what you said about attending a university is correct. Those that choose that route end up more independent in the long run. Since for many people that is not an option, for whatever reason, seminary is a good second. It is not for everyone, but many I have known have matured, and they were quite mature to begin with! It is an experience being away from home. Yes, I had some of the same experiences you had, having to arrange with yomim tovim and the like- a very solidifying experience having to explain what the yom tov is about, do we really believe in “all that stuff”, ect. For those who go through it- kol hakovod in todays world, which is very different from years past. But at the same time, dont discount seminary. Would a girl I know, in secular college now, be able to go through it all without her sem experience? each experience is different and it depends on your sem and how your parents dealt with it.
You seem to have been quite mature to begin with. But for those who are not, and will not go to a secular college or even a frum one away from home, it is a bridge to “adulthood”.
rebetzin- there is more to responsibility than having a job. Like I said, jobs come and go. I was referring to E”Y seminary in the ideal sense, where parents do not give their daughters free reign of the credit cards, a lush bank account to always take out money, and unlimited phone calls. E”Y seminary is, and for many people I know has been, a scenario in which they were given a limited budget for the month, maybe a credit card for emergencies ( real ones…like when the bus broke down and they needed to take a taxi to get back to the dorm or if they C”V had a medical emergency and needed to see a doctor) and a fixed number of times they could use their phone internationally.
It does not have to be internationally, as long as it is away from their hometown and far enough that they can’t just come home when they get homesick and miss mommy. Being away from home for 9 months is like a trial run for marriage. Some seminaries require the girls to cook one meal a day, all require the girls to do their own laundry, all require keeping their room (as well as some general/common areas) clean and orderly…. its a microcosm of the macrocosm- marriage.
There are ways to start training for a career in seminary, especially Montreal and Yavneh. And anyways- you can get through these technical schools and some colleges so quickly that they should be able to have a final year away. Icing on the cake to help solidify them before marriage. There is no need for them to have their BA by the time they are 18. If they have it by 19 or 20 they are still way ahead of the goyish world. Having a job in no way is a sign of “maturity” the same way living on your own far from home is.
Buffalo can mean either a place (as in NY), an animal, or “to bully”.
So, to make it easier, change all those that mean “animal” to “dogs”. Additionally, it would be easier to change all those that mean “Buffalo, NY” to “Alaska”.
Alaskan dogs, (whom other) Alaskan dogs bully, bully Alaskan dogs.
To bring it back to the original meaning: bison from Buffalo intimidate (other) bison from Buffalo that bison from Buffalo intimidate.
oomis- people who write as if they are texting annoy me as well. I end up turning my head sideways to try to understand it, as if that view makes things clearer and more understandable. I understand that places like this do not need a “grammar police” but as some have mentioned before, writing clearly and understandably is being respectful to the readers. If I cant understand it the first or second time through, I give up and ignore the post. Just FYI all you “texters” out there… 😉
James, while John had had “had”, had had “had had”; “had had” had had a better effect on the teacher…
hmm, still working on the other one…
what about this one?
Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo.
this one doesnt really need punctuation but rather an understanding of the words… (did I just give it away?)
I personally would think twice about having a child of mine marry a girl who did not go out of town for seminary. It could be to montreal or yavneh (if you arent from there), if not E”Y, but lakewood, BY half day, full day or night sem doesnt cut it at all. They need to be away from home and know how to survive without mommy and daddy always being there. Girls need to learn how to take care of themselves, be responsible, learn who they are without mommy telling them when they go home. Making shabbos plans, cooking, budgeting, travel arrangements, social skills, setting their schedule (going to bed ect)….are all part of growing up. I know someone who married a girl who did not leave home for seminary and she could not deal with being married and ended up in a divorce…
Girls who can define themselves, take care of themselves, have a sense of maturity… are more likely to come from those who were away from home.
Being a good mother and wife is more than having a job or having a little money saved up. College can be done in sem, depending on the place, or it can be done fairly quickly when they get back home.
Jobs and money come and go, but who the person is will stay.
and what’s the one for the guys? love to hear what kind of craziness the boys go through!!! (or is it only the girls???)
why are we so nervous about the “wrath of the shadchan”??? Isn’t she supposed to be helping the girls and boys get married?????? Why does she (as a profession, it could be a guy) have such control over the generation? As MD said “I dont want to think of the repercussions” – she is doing a disfavor if we (hypothetically speaking…all those on the market) all have to curb our interests ect for a shadchan??? Yes, they are there to find shidduchim, but what about in days yonder when they would be someone’s aunt/uncle, former teacher, Rav…? are those shadchanim now “assur”???
Canada is recalling a whole batch of over 100,000 doses made by Glaxo-Smith-Kline… they were found to cause an extreme amount of allergic reactions to the people given it. There was a few kids in midwest America who nearly died from the shot. At least one actually got h1n1 from the vaccine, while others had really bad reactions.
Just makes you wonder how safe it really is.
do both sides share in the responsibility for a shtar mechilah? what if the girl broke it off?
by the way, estherh- how can one be sure about the cause and effect relationship here? She still hasnt forgiven him after so many years? after so many yom kippurim? oh my…
bein hasdorim- thanks for your analytical response. it was on target.
can someone explain the right that the shadchan had to respond (in the case of the OP) in this way? I cannot seem to understand that point of view.
shadchanim, sometimes, I feel are in it for the money rather than the mitzvah. Yes, some do it leshma but there are those that seem to want to have a steady stream of customers. Why does their protocol make it that they must use a shadchan? This is an abnormal situation. Yes, I understand if they wont want to help people who actively shmooze with the other gender but this could be why there is a shidduch crises. Shadchanim may be partly to blame. If you dont have yichus, money… then they wont help you. Otherwise…
Why can’t they help everyone and see past the outward “he spoke to a girl and helped he with her flat tire”? Just because they are not the “norm” (whatever that means) does it look bad on the shadchan to set them up anyways??? is it going to harm them forevermore? come on…
people should just remember that braking an engagement is better than divorce- for all parties involved. Divorces cause huge family rifts where many different families can end up involved. Also, if there will be children by the time of the divorce- nebech on the kids!!! It is awful for the parents to go through a divorce but it is worse for the children. Imagine growing up in a one-parent household. Imagine going from one parent to the other for yomim tovim and every other shabbos-the kids get caught in the middle. “tell your ____(mother/father) that….” and they wont talk to the other parent. “In your mother/father’s house it might be ok to do that, but here we dont let kids behave that way….”
What are they to do for “Mother-daughter” parties? Father-son learning at school? Parent teacher conferences? the girl’s plays where the father is unable to go??
EVERY DIVORCE is messy. There are no clean divorces. Better to break an engagement than to go through that with kids.
onlyemes- why then must these rules be the only ones? I am not promoting conversations between the two genders. I am saying that if it was min hashamayim that they meet, then maybe we are using inflated “frumkeit” and are straying away from the emes. min hashamayim- if one side set it up/staged the flat tire ect, then they are to be held responsible. But if it really was a flat tire–?
Maybe this could be why there is a shidduch crises- we limit ourselves to whom the shadchan knows rather than allowing for other means?? (I am once again saying that I am not referring to blatant talking/gathering between the two genders.)
The boy here may have stellar middos, would help someone besides for what is “acceptable”, yeshivish… but just happened to meet the girl this way? Would it have been better for the girls to have been waiting on the street corner, until who knows what time, in how dangerous an area at that time,… until the car could get towed?
I dont get any. waste of money and time. Dont see the point: full of ads (problematic on shabbos? besides, gives all the wrong ideas), old news that I already read on YWN or VIN or like sources, or “how to lose weight successfully” articles, or others that just gives people wrong thoughts. Like you dont need 6 course meals to be a successful wife, mother, kallah ect. not everyone needs to lose weight. We are pushing our girls to lose weight to an unhealthy end!
I used to read the Jewish Observer but that stopped. At least that had enlightening articles and editorials. Once in a while I get something for a change if it is on a topic that seems interesting. but overall… nothing really.
Just in case anyone wants to know… since the discussion of seminaries is still relevant, Rabbi Rosen of Shoshanim is expected to be in America in the next week or so (not sure exactly). They have a beautiful new campus, warm and wonderful staff and it is academic. Many people confuse the name with other seminaries, but it is different than other seminaries. Some places take the girl based on getting perfect grades, having sisters who went there, or who their father/grandfather is. Shoshanim is different. Each girl added something special to the seminary. Somehow Rabbi Rosen manages to pick the right girls- he does it based on the girl herself. Smart girls were challenged there- there were girls who got straight A+ in school and liked the seminary. Girls are chosen for their middos and attitudes- what a difference compared to some places! Girls came back and they still keep in touch with their friends, even the international ones, for years afterwards! It has a lot of “out of towners” and especially international girls- but NYers dont be afraid to apply! NYers are just as welcome- there is a mix of girls who are sweet, caring girls… Girls have been from boro park and flatbush, monsey and lakewood, baltimore and paris, strausberg and Ottawa… all in the same year!
shoshanim girls are really “good girls” who are constantly growing, like “roses in the garden”!
It is a great seminary that I would go to if I was that age again. The teachers there are amazing! The staff is really warm and caring! The teachers are unlike other seminary teachers- you can go to them for shabbos, have a seder at one of their houses, shmooze or have a deep discussion with them- no problem!
It is worse for illegals because they have no right to be here! Wait your turn and get in line! But that is no excuse for those who use fraud and other dishonest means to get assistance. Like those who say they are single mothers so they and their children can be on their parent’s medical insurance? Those who lie about income and number of dependent children? Taxes? There are many ways to lie and none are good. I was told that the basics of dina demalchusei dina is on taxes and money.
This goes back a little while cuz I haven’t been able to get on the computer…
When I talked about ICE and emergency rooms, I was referring to the patients! Yes, if they are in a medical crises/emergency, they must be treated. Many are there who use it as their primary physician. Under the new healthcare bill, they will get full coverage even though they do not pay taxes!!
Just because some of our grandparents who came over were not considered illegal, they still managed to work their way up the corporate ladder. They worked hard, long hours and they didnt just want handouts. They learned English without all the benefits of modern technology and facilities (learn English in 2 months in classes, computer based programs ect) Many illegals today want signs and placards in their language, bilingual classes in public schools, bilingual nurses/doctors…. they do not want to learn English! Force teachers to only teach in English in public schools (want something different? go to private school). We are not like other countries where there are two (or more) national languages.
just a guy- there is a real difference. Jews came to the country to seek refuge from other countries and did it legally. We came and learned English (otherwise the YWN would be in German, Russian, Polish or Yiddish for most of us) and were willing to abide by the rules of teh country. I am not saying that anyone should dress in any other way or lose their cuture. We did not tell the country to “give us bilingual teachers for elementary school” but they do. I am not anti-immigrant because unless you had ancestors who were here in 1776 when the country was founded, you too were an “immigrant to America”. They should become American citizens and pay taxes. Why should they be on welfare? On medicare? medicaid? On the “socialized healthcare”
You do not need them- you are just used to them. With them you are allowed to live a higher standard of living. You have an easier life. But if you knew that you were taking the job of a Jew, would you feel the same way? If tomorrow C”V the paying person in your house lost their job, (which more and more people are facing) you would be able to live without them. It would be harder, yes, but possible.
Have you been in the emergency room any time recently? Wonder if ICE came in, how many would leave?
I always washed the same for going to the bathroom as upon awaking. hmm. Is it a problem to wash extra? especially if you were unsure if the water covered your hand or not???