HaLeiVi

SJS, It’s not about their rights, it’s about ours. Nobody is stopping any of them from doing what they want. They are infringing on us and want to force us to redefine our values and bring up our children with values that are disgusting to us and our father in heaven. Whether they beleive in Hashem or not doesn’t make a difference. We do, and we love him too; we refuse to allow among ourselves disgusting acts and beliefs. Who are they to tell us what to believe? Did you notice that not even Rabbi Yehuda Levin is saying to arrest all those Posh’im? It is about our rights, not theirs.

d a, within Daled Amos is also good.

Another trick is to avoid the question in some brilliant way. You can tell him that you’re not from here, since you aren’t currently in your place. Or, ask him if it is okay to sit where you are.

Besides the fact that there’s a difference between the Madreiga of a personal Hashgacha and Hashgacha Pratis as we call it today, which means that it all is Hashem’s plan.

Besides that, the discussion among the Rishonim is about animals.

The Kotzker has many Vehrtlach checking true concepts taken too far. We all know of the Rambam about going B’derech Hamemutza. However, as with all great rules, this too can be overdone. We’ve all heard of those that complain about frumkeit or about learning most of the day.

I thought of a great Mashal: one extreme is to fast, and the other extreme is to eat all your waking hours. Therefore, the middle road is to eat for 8 hours, right? Well it depends on your sights, what is your right end and what is your left end. So, one extreme is to learn all my waking hours and the other extreme is to learn a minimal amount.

Anyhow, he is saying don’t be so proud that you think Avodas Hashem is extreme and that you are going in the middle of the road. The donkeys go in the middle of the road.

The fact that the Satmarer Rebbe said it over is proof to my interpretation.

So maybe you should be here, not there. Anyhow it’s hard to get offended when we both know that neither of us knows who the other one is.

Baba Pashuta Yid, if you are refering to the Zohar Chadash in Balak, there are different Girsaos. Perhaps it wasn’t meant to be really clear there either, especially being that it passed. We might have a Cheshbon but we don’t necessarily know the bumper date. But I’d still rather hear a better Terutz.

On a lighter note:

Perhaps you can’t know when he’ll come because some say that he already came.

http://u.cs.biu.ac.il/~wiseman/shulhan-aruch/

That should help for the first part.

First off, you are not equating two equal concepts. The two Churbanos did not happen slowly. The Chato’im built up slowly. Definitely the Ge’ula is also a culmination of Zechusim.

Second of all, the Moderator was actually refering to a Gemara in Eiruvin which says that if someone accepts upon himself to be a Nazir on the day Mashiach comes, he may only drink wine on Shabbos because otherwise any other day he might come or in fact have come.

Another point to keep in mind is that the Churban was a natural thing that Hashem allowed and arranged, but the Ge’ula is an unnatural thing. The Maharal explains that when help comes from that level it comes in one shot, because the nature didn’t produce it so it doesn’t need time, which is nature’s way of getting things moving.

The events you refer to are what lead up to make the situation ripe for Mashiach to come. In that sense all of world events in the past were part of that lead up.

There is a Medrash that says that the year that Moshiach will come, the Yidden will be saying, the world is going on as ever before, can it be Moshiach will come this year?

As you read in that article, with our Zechusim we can hopefully speed up the process. But in either case the actual coming is not a natural and slowly gaining process.

If you are able to, you can learn through the Maharal’s Netzach Yisroel, which is a Sefer all about the Ge’ula.

Reb Gavra, before checking it up, I just have one question (if mosherose lets me ask questions): what kind of Takana was that not to marry out after Pilegesh Begivaa, wasn’t there a sort of Cheirim set up against Shevet Binyamin? Unless the Takana was after the ban was taken away.

Oomis, it doesn’t pay to make up ideas when it comes to Emuna things. You must realize that what you are saying about Chazal is bordering on Kfira of Torah Shel Baal Peh. Please read up on the ideas and topics that you mentioned. There is no room for speculation when it comes to Ikray Haddos.

The problems in Emuna are mostly from believing too much in the natural order. I haven’t heard of anybody having a problem with Emuna because perhaps Malach Gavriel caused it.

Haleivi, I don’t turn anything into personal glimpses. My personal glimpses color my opinions of how different rabbonim do not seem to be able to reach a consensus at times, solely based on their PERSONAL opinions about an issue, and NOT at all based in the actual halacha.

Please explain. This, to me, sounds like, ‘don’t say that about me, but it’s true.’

To all those who are so bothered with the fact that Segulos are taking away from Emuna, how come nobody complains about going to doctors and getting expensive security systems?

As far as the difference between superstition and Segulos, I can’t say it better than BP Totty.

Does that put me at 73 or do I get the special number?

chesedname, why do you ignore what I wrote? As far as the Ad Sheyiblu Sifsoseichem part, the Gemara was Darshening the Pasuk. Not necessarily does that go back onto anyone who gives Maaser. Chazal learned from this Pasuk that giving Maaser will make you rich, but it doesn’t mean that everything we find there applies to Maaser.

Chesedname, I notice that your question is about “everybody”. Let’s keep this about yourself and it would be alot easier to answer it. Before speaking about others, speak to them first.

We find that Moshe Rabbeinu asked Hashem the famous question of Tzaddik V’ra Lo. It is not clear if he got an answer. Moshe Rabbeinu was shown the plight of Rebbi Akiva and said, “Zu Torah V’zu S’chara?” On the other hand when we look at Rebbi Akiva himself, we find that he answers his Talmidim that this is the greatest opportunity in his life. No questions.

Back to the issue at hand, in the Gemmara in Shabbos we find that Rebbi asked Rebbi Yishmoel B’reb Yosi in what Zechus did the rich of Eretz Yisroel become rich. He answered that they give Maaser. Then he asked about the rich of Bavel, to which he replied that they are Mechabed the Torah.

First of all, from the fact that he was not satisfied with the first answer as pertaining to the Bavelites, shows us that the Mod is correct in that it is referring to real Maaser.

Second of all, nothing is a sure way to anywhere. Richness has to do with Mazel among other things. If you notice, the question is, how where the rich Zocheh. Not everyone will become rich, but in order to become rich there has to be a Zechus. If it helps, you can also think of it as adding gas to the engine. If it’s broken, leaking over-loaded or choked, the effect will be stopped or dampened. But, my point was more than that.

The concept that we learn from this Memra of Chazal also applies to Tzeddaka in general, of course. Now, of course it does not mean that you will surely get rich. It does mean that Hashem gives to those who give. The Maharal likens this to a well that as you take water from it, more flows in. If you speak to people about this you will hear remarkable stories of how after giving Tzeddaka they got helped from unexpected sources. I had my own experience a few days ago, when although very pressed, I gave somebody more than I would usually think of giving, and that day, I avoided a car accident at the last second.

You are obviously saying that because you feel that the Torah implies it. That is why I mentioned the Maharal who, it seems, embraced the new model.

The Sefer Habris, after stating emphatically that whoever believes this, is absolutely not an heretic, goes on to explain that personaly he believes the old way. He brings two physics proofs and two Torah proofs. His physics proofs aren’t proof. He misunderstood centrefugal force.

His Torah proofs are

1) The Pesukim make more sense that way

2) The Arizal describes the earth as being from the “straight” world, while the sun, moon and stars are from the surrounding world. How can it be that the straight revolver around the surrounding.

I would ask you to do it the easy way, and turn around.

From the star’s point of view, it’s staying put (radialy). From our point of view we can say that it went around that fast as long as it has nothing to do with us. Relative movement means that there is no absolute space. Although there is the rule that nothing will accelerate faster than the speed of light, one object turning around may, by definition, cause a distant object to be said to have gone around it. The idea is that it means the same thing. The motion won’t be initiated by the distant object, but the effect and the meaning is the same.

You have to be Mechaleck between the Pe’ula and the Chalois.

Just as light travels at the speed of light toward an observer moving away from the source, although a stationary observer would say that the light traveled faster than the speed of light; so too, if by definition you can say that either object is revolving around the other, even if that causes you to speculate that it would mean travel faster than light, it still makes sense.

Would you entertain the idea of learning Rabbi Arye Kaplan’s books with her? I’m referring to the anthologies not the Kabbala ones. That might be helpful in showing reason and depth in Mitzvos. She might not be that type, in which case just the fact that you have these conversations with her is the main Kiruv here.

Mod-80, Can you quote what exactly is backwards?

Let’s try to clear up a couple of things.

First off, regarding the orbit of Earth, I always notice a big confusion. There are two aspects: The yearly orbit around the sun, and the daily revolution.

When speaking about how relativity reconciles the two, we must realize that that applies to the yearly orbit. That doesn’t help anybody stick up for Chazal since they are never referring to this orbit. For all you know, they would agree that Earth revolves around the sun once a year.

As far as the daily revolution, dd already (finally) explained that we actually can prove that the earth rotates by testing the effects of centrifugal force.

Now, back to relativity. Let’s understand, that the whole thing started when it was noticed that light always seems to be traveling at the same speed, even when you are traveling away from it.

Based on this, Einstein decided that the speed pertains to how fast it will get to you. Since light, he says, travels at top speed, it will always get to you at the speed of light. This should answer someonesbored and Mod-80.

If it makes sense in our frame of reference then it makes sense. As far as we are concerned, we are going around the sun and everything else stays put.

hereorthere! Yehoshua finished the Torah?! Chas Veshalom!

The Halacha is that you are not allowed to be Mafsik by the last eight Pesukim so that it should not appear that these Pesukim are different than the rest or written separately. The Gemara says that Moshe wrote these Pesukim with tears.

As far as if he learned our Gemara, it says that he learned every question that a studious Talmud would ask his Rebbe

SJS’s idea is exactly what I had mind. Perhaps there can be more than one system in place. For example, some users will have to wait for moderation, or only some won’t. This can be decided on by a little icon at each post that everyone can vote. Other forums have such a system in place to give someone credit as a good poster. (I’m refering to programming forums. I don’t read non-frum blogs.)

This can be along side a word filter and a report button.

moish01, you enjoyed the last word for nine months; but it’s time to move on.

There are parallel conversations going on here, ranging from Chazal’s knowledge to evolution, from Teffilla to Hishtadlus, from science to name calling. The main issue here is did Chazal know everything. Then, the question is from where they knew what they knew. And third, could we say that they’re wrong on certain things.

First of all we must realize the mistake of lumping anyone older than ourselves into one pot. Next, let’s take a look at some Gemaras to see.

We find that Amora’im learned their science from their Rebbes and Mishnaios. We find a few places in Shas that R’ Papa says, we see from this Mishna or Braisa that this is dangerous or that that bone extends until that point and so on. You see that if didn’t pay attention to the Goyim of his day. He learned it from his Torah.

On the other hand we also find places where they outright didn’t know. Someone mentioned here earlier the case where Rav observed a farm for months to find out something he needed to know for Hilchos Bechoros. We also find places where they went to ask a doctors opinion for a certain Shaila. Also, during the second Bais Hamikdosh the trumpets broke and they sent them to Egypt for repair. There is also a Gemara which discusses from where the hair grows, from the head or the tip. The Gemara concludes that it grows from the head, since we see it on dyed hair, that as it grows the part closest to the scalp is undyed.

Now, Joseph mentioned the Gemara where a disciple of R’ Yochanon couldn’t believe what R’ Yochanon Darshened until he witnessed it himself, and R’ Yochanon punished him for this. There is another Gemara where R’ Yochanon fell asleep while teaching his disciples, and one student asked another student a couple of worldly questions. He answered him what seemed very reasonable and true. Meanwhile, R’ Yochanon awoke and picked up the conversation. He scolded the one who supplied the answers, and said, you should not say something until you know it for certain as clear as you know that your sister is Assur to you.

This shows us how careful Chazal where not to just say things from the top of the head. If they did not know, they did not say.

The Gemara relates how R’ Elazar complained that no one is Meshamesh him. He said that his students took from him just a drop in a bucket, and he took from his Rebbes as much as a dog licking from the ocean. Anyhow, he went with R’ Akiva and taught him three hundred laws about Koisher Kishuin. He also said that he knows three thousand laws about planting cucumbers. This obviously came along with alot of technical knowledge.

When Hashem taught Moshe Rabbeinu the whole Torah, obviously he had to also know the facts that surround it. The Torah was passed down from Moshe to the prophets, and from them to the Tana’im. So, although alot of knowledge was lost from generation to generation, the Tana’im knew plenty of technical information, not everything. But they did not assume anything on their own.

Now, as for the incidents about R’ Yochanon, another important point is seen, that they knew how to Darshen. One Amora said that Yakov Avinu Lo Meiss. His friend asked him some logical questions on that, and he answered, I’m Darshening a Pasuk. Also R’ Yehoshua learned from a Pasuk how long it takes a snake to have a baby, whereas the philosopher he was contending had to experiment for a long time, and seemingly, nobody else knew this. So anybody who believes in Torah Shel Baal Peh, also believes any and all Drashos Chazal.

The Gemara discusses why honey is kosher while milk from a non kosher animal isn’t. After some discussion, the Gemara says, it must be(e) that the bee doesn’t produce it from itself, it just affects it. We know this to be the case. Many have used this Gemara to prove that Chazal knew the science of the bee. But, if that where the case, they would have stated it right away. On the contrary, they didn’t know this fact until they learned this Mishna!

So my point is that they didn’t know all the science that wasn’t available then, nor did they believe blindly everything that was known then. However their Drashos are true and their interpretations of the Mishna are true, and are part of Torah Shel Baal Peh.