HaLeiVi

Thanks, Pashuta Yid. Very powerfull.

Other than focusing on the reasons for going off, which are as many as there are people, we can focus on the routes to going OTD. Either Emuna starts to go or interest in the outside world gains a bigger and bigger place in the mind or the Taava.

Each of these things target different situations. What makes someone susceptible to any of these could be anything, but the challenges available are pretty specific, and can be addressed. The Gemara does say about the Taava of Arayos that it takes the person till the end. It doesn’t say about Lashon Harra that thinking about it is worse than doing it.

Does embarrassing someone in the CR count?

If they want to they can make a new kind of arrangement without any mention of marriage that would be exactly what you mention, a legal contract for visitation and inheritance. The document should work for siblings and dogs or caretakers. The fact is, they are after the Marriage title. They are actualy after the Marriage Institution. So look at it this way: We, the people at Marriage Institution, want to keep our institution running. You can open your own if you so desire, but don’t knock down my time honored institution.

If the government sanctions this redefinition, it is the new norm. Government is not your quiet neighbor. It is the creator of standards, or breaker thereof.

While I consider the first Kasha answered, the second one is definitely a hard one. It was an attempt, not definitive. Anyhow, not necessarily does it have to mean that there was nothing at all. It could be refering to essential parts.

• Cooking with a microwave. Since cooking in direct sunlight is Muttar because it is not Derech Bishul, although cooking by something heated from the sun is Assur. So is a microwave the new Derech or is it too similar to other methods and therefore has a Din of Tolda Dechama or is it Muttar?
• Is it Doresh El Hameisim to communicate with a spirit through white noise?
• Would one put on Teffilin on an artificial but fully integrated arm?
• Is pressing buttons on an electronic device Assur on Shabbos? Is any closing of a circut considered Nolad, Tikkun Manne, Makka Bepatish, or Binyan; or only turning on the device?

He didn’t ignore it. He wrote that he sees now that there is a Hetter but he will continue to be Makpid Keshuras Haddin. V’tavo Alav Bracha.

As a rule, if you want people to admit to you when you are right, you have to allow them. If they know that you’ll laugh and say, “See? I’m right and you’re wrong!”, they’ll just refrain from admitting. Just as you must be a gracious loser, so to must you be a gracious winner. Ben’fol Oivecha Al Tagil.

Check the Midrash.

mw13, you can’t make up my position and then argue with it. I did not mention what you said in my argument, and you did not refute or mention what I wrote. Only helpful Helpful addressed my last point.

Strong instead of B, And EM instead of I.

I wonder if he has another screen name in which his Dr. Jeckel side gets to have a say.

The kind of person that makes people feel good is the one that actualy means it. That is the real trick: to first tell yourself or think so in the first place, and then tell the guy Devarim Hayotzim Min Halev. I know people who spray wonderful words at everyone, and I have a very hard time talking to them. You just know when someone is saying something because the words are nice.

island, there was a large

Look, that’s a possible distinction, but not the kind that you make up without a Kasha to answer. I think the ball lies in your Rav’s hands.

Just a thought: Although many of us have a hard time keeping a focus on the meaning of the words, we are still aware of who we are praying to and standing in front of. We still want him to listen, and we say at the end, Yihyu Leratzon Imrei Fi. Therefore there is no reason for the Shechina not to be there. In other words, although you stopped thinking about De’ah, Bina and Haskel, you still think about Baruch Ato Hashem.

But do you agree at least not to knock people over?

The Gemara says already that we don’t have Kavana and the Halacha exists nevertheless. But, I have heard numerous Heteirim through the years. There are stories of Gedolim who stayed out of Shul until everyone finished.

There are a few things involved here. Walking in front is Assur because of Kavana. Passing through or sitting, for a non-Mitzva is a problem all around because of the presence of the Shechina. Perhaps the less Kavana someone has, the less you have have to worry about the first part but the second, albeit less Chamur, problem still exists.

There is a concept in other areas of Halacha that you can’t Assur someone else’s property. I’ve heard this applied to our topic, too. In the isles and even near other places, when the person is sort of stepping into others’ territory, he is giving up or can’t Assur his 4 Ammos.

We can always see Medakdekim being careful about this, but it’s hard to give numbers because most people stay by their place throughout the Tefilla.

Vegetarians is a much better example than your women and black examples. However, the issue here is that we are not stopping them from doing what they want – the equivalent to stopping us from eating meat, we just want to keep our own turf, too. We, the normal people don’t want the government sanctioning the breakdown of the concept of a normal marriage. Like I wrote earlier, they can get their visitation and inheritance rights without doing this. The only reason they are being so vociferous about it is to make US teach OUR kids that our own values aren’t true.

I get the feeling, SJS, that you feel that you owe the world everything for the fact that you are Jewish. While I am thankful for the tolerance America offers, I don’t have that complex.

Because it’s a waste of a thought if you don’t ‘get the message out.’

Sometimes I feel like I’ll actually make a difference. It’s also fun, of course – it’s like giving a speech without having the fright that comes along with it.

Maybe we can start a thread on Would You Be Willing To Divulge Your Identity. After some shouting matches and a few silly statements and jokes that fall flat . . _ would you be willing to still show your face?

And you don’t believe in Mutav Sheyapil Atzmo Letoch Kivshon Ha’eish, that it is worth throwing oneself in a fire rather than to embarras someone.

The three things that the Gemara mention where it is permitted to lie are cases of humility, modesty and consideration. To transgress an Aveira in order to say the truth is ridiculous.

Why is that a Stira? Everything is planned, but for some there are better plans.

I never saw someone be Modeh in the CR. Is it just a trick to get me to be Modeh :?)

WIY, Oh so that’s you?

Reb Menashe Klein writes that there is an understanding today when someone Shtells in middle of nowhere or even in a packed Shul, that it isn’t his space and people may pass. I think there are others, too, who pulled up Heteirim.

Do you have any problem with those who call themselves Messianic Jews? I do, and I believe I have a right to. It is highjacking something which belongs to someone already.

That is bad news. You just dismiss a Gemara like that? I would much faster dismiss something from the Moreh Nevuchim, like most of Klal Yisroel. The Rambam himself doesn’t use what he wrote there, in the Yad.

Anyhow, the Rambam starts off by bringing alot of Pesukim showing that everything happens for a reason. Then he says that this is only for humans – there is no Gezeira from Hashem specifically on any specific animal or leaf that it should fall or be caught. Then he goes on to say that since the special Hashgacha is due to the Sechel, it follows that the more you got the more Hashgacha you’ll have. For an example, he mentions the special Shmira that the Avos had. Then he mentions that Risho’im lose their Hashgacha, they lose their Shmira, and will certainly get hurt soon enough. What you wrote here, to someone else, is the outlook that the Rambam attributes to Aristotle.

What the Rambam writer about Risho’im is nothing new. It is a Pasuk, Vehelachtem Imi Bakkeri… This is also with Din. It is in fact what Chazal say about Mipi Elyon Lo Tetzei Haraos. Whenever something bad happens, it wasn’t Hashem’s hand punishing, it was Hashem leaving the culprit alone.

If what you say is true, we wouldn’t make a Birchas Hagomel. You would have to thank Chance instead of Goodness.

Another point: The Mekubalim say that even what the Rambam says is a Mikre, is also from Hashem. This too is not necessarily refuting the Rambam’s words. They also would agree that there is no Gezeira on each leaf. Being, though, that Hashem made the world and its weather and all the randomness comes from Him. So the idea is that ever thin that happens is Hashem’s plan. Even, and especially, the Mekubalim agree that there are Mazalos at play. Yet they still say that everything is from Hashem.

Again, and again, nobody is denying any rights, we are denying redefinition of morality. Who exactly was born with the right to change everyone else’s values?

WIY, your first point bothers me, too. Your second point, though, not really, or not that much. The Gemara says that the reason the nations are still around is because they don’t sell human flesh in the meat market and they don’t write a Kesuba for this garbage. In other words, this is the bottom. It is in fact the worst thing.

Until recently, I didn’t have much of an opinion about his actions. It was a little weird that he his on his own and rails against the leaders of today’s Jewry. This recent thing of having an outsider read off a derogatory speech about Rebbes and Rabbanim is just way too far.

You are ignoring the Gemara that I mentioned, and that is not fine. As I said earlier, the Rambam and the Ramban are talking about being cared for on a personal basis. That is the literal Hashgacha Pratis, personal attention. We are discussing the idea that everything is preplanned. This is mentioned in the Gemara, Geonim, and Rishonim as well.

It is a mistake to confuse the two concepts, no matter how common the mistake.

Wolfish, so you are from the religion-is-cruel camp? I mean, we shake Lulav. How is that any different than a group of hoodlums brandishing knives?

I’m discussing the idea that they are trying to force their values on the rest of us, and you talk about hate mongers. It seems to me that they actually succeeded in their quest to reeducate the masses. Just read the last few comments and realize the ideology espoused.

Yes, I reserve the right to maintain my morals. It’s actually weird that you guys turn the tables and aquate immorality with the just cause of non-discrimination, and the refusal to drop normal, clean and moral standards with mean behavior. This is the fruits of the whole campaign to smear moral people, as if morality equals aloofness and cruelty.

They worked hard to make ‘moralist’ a derogatory term, and they found a customer in you. If I don’t let you spit in my face, I obviously would never hold the door for you, right?

Please realise when you are duped.