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AAQ:
“> invaded the holy land against the will of the Jews there (the chareidim).Eida Charedit (that is not the same as large number of current haredim) was located at a couple of places under Turks. They did not control the country.
And I am personally fine if you want to separate from the country as Neturei Karta and live under your own protection. As far as I know none of Roshei Yeshivos hold by this and reside in the areas covered by Iron Dome.”No, of course they did not control the country; it was first under Turkish rule, then under British rule via the UN until the Zionist fought and terrorized the British into leaving and refused the UN’s wish to start a new mandate when the Zionists declared their “independence”. Either way, the Zionists invaded against the will of the Jews there, as mentioned before, and Rav YCC Sonnenfeld who led the Jews there did not want the Zionists to represent the Jews, which is why the Zionists murdered Dr. DeHaan, HY”D. Because Zionism comes before Jewish lives, as the Zionists amply demonstrated during (and before and after) the Holocaust.
Your “suggestion” seems odd. Obviously, they all live under whatever conditions the Zionist invaders provide, whether that is the Iron Dome or anything else. The Jews there have no choice in that matter unless they were to move out of the country. But it is the Zionists who invaded against the will of the Jews living there, as mentioned, so it is the Zionists who need to leave the Jews alone and also not impoverish them and let them work like in every normal country without requiring the Jews to convert to Zionism in the Zionist shmad army first. It’s really not complicated.
SQUARE_ROOT:
Your call to Star-K and their answer that they never heard of it does not therefore mean that I lied. I did not lie. It simply means that they never heard of it.
I did in fact hear that directly from a world-class talmid chacham. But all the gedolim anyways said the same in their writings, as mentioned. The Chazon Ish himself has in his Maaseh Ish that an apikores nowadays is one that either celebrates the Zionist “independence” day or one who blames the gedolim for the death of the Jews in Europe. So you can take all that to the STAR-K, if you want. But the greatest gedolim have stated this repeatedly.Yankel Berel:
Actually, it is stupid to claim that the oaths are not applicable/practical, because there are midrashim and other chazal who bring actual cases of how violations of those oaths caused extreme destruction, and numerous poskim who bring the oaths as practically in force (usually called “halacha”).The Avnei Nezer obviously knew of those midrashim and other maamarei chazal, too, so he obviously agrees that the oaths are in force/practical. His original piece, in context, would be much more informative and useful than your translation of one or two paragraphs.
Harugei Beithar, for example, was due to violating the oaths – and resulted in the greatest bloodbath of Jews in history – far, far greater than even the Holocaust, depending on how you learn that gemara in Gittin.
Shevet Efraim (the ones who left Egypt early), as another example, was a violation of the oaths which caused them to be wiped out, R”L L”A.
This isn’t very complicated. For example, there is no halacha that Moshe Rabbeinu is the greatest Navi who ever lived. The Torah says it (explicitly), so we know it’s both true and practically applicable (as in you would be a heretic for stating that any other prophet did reach his level), even if it’s not a halacha. Same here. The Torah tells us about the oaths, including times when violating those caused punishment R”L L”A, so we know that the oaths are both true and practically applicable.
As we know from all the Zionists who fruitlessly attempt to explain away the oaths, we all know that the oaths are indisputably both valid and practical/halachically in force, just like Moshe Rabbeinu being the greatest navi who ever lived.
simcha613:
No, having an elective gemara class for girls is not at all “perfectly in line with this halacha”. It is forbidden to teach them Torah sheBaal peh, particularly gemara and the like, as Rav Moshe Zatza”l noted. If women choose to do so on their own, that’s their business. But their possibility of learning it improperly obviously does not then permit rabbis to violate the halacha so that the women should learn properly.The answer is likely that you seem to feel, with no actual basis, that it’s an eilu viEilu, so this is how you seek to justify it. But, in reality, it is simply forbidden.
none2.0:
Why do you post here? This is intended for Orthodox Jews (and not people with an extreme imagination). Your libel against the Rabbis and the gemara is silly and baseless. The gemara is G-d’s truth, regardless of whether or not any women choose to learn it.SQUARE_ROOT:
Take it up with all the gedolim, like Rav Elchonon Wasserman and the Chazon Ish and the Brisker Rav and all the rest.
“Religious Zionism” is idolatry. Period.Your insane ranting about this causing a “civil war” is just that: insane. The wicked Zionists constantly crank out immense propaganda against the Torah, deceiving countless Jews (including you), R”L L”A. There will be no such thing, of course. But when Moshiach comes, you and all the Zionist heretics will see clearly just how stupid and insane is your idol of Zionism.
riva:
It is actually the Zionists who are literally full of hate, who have destroyed generations of Jews and working even harder than in the past to destroy the olam haTorah in E”Y. It is the wicked Zionists who impoverish the Jews there and don’t allow them to work until age 26! unless the Jew agrees to first convert to Zionism from Judaism in the Zionist shmad army. That is extremely hateful. And on and on.Always_Ask_Questions:
Nope. Even that argument doesn’t apply. The wicked Zionists invaded the holy land against the will of the Jews there (the chareidim). The Jews there (chareidim), therefore, have zero responsibility to help out the Zionists in their endless wars. If anything, the wicked Zionists (as they agreed to Agudah when they declared “independence”) need to treat the chareidim as a protected class.Always_Ask_Questions:
Your story from the Ponevezher Rav is, of course, not a stira to the Satmar Rav, though they could argue on that point, in theory.
Since the PR held that the building would eventually turn into a yeshiva – for however long it would last – the PR wanted that building to be built well.SQUARE_ROOT:
Peaceful dismantlement of the Zionist “State” has never been publicly advocated by the Jewish political organizations like Agudah, in part because there is no clear path to doing so without the cooperation of the Zionists.yankel berel:
Huh? Age doesn’t make a practical difference. It is forbidden to put one’s self in a position of being shmaded and all three of the gimmel chamuros. They are yehareig viAl Yaavor.Yes, the Zionist shmad army happens to be even worse for someone younger but, no, being older does not at all remove the numerous non-starters with joining the Zionist shmad army. That should be plain and obvious.
yechiell:
Zionism is diametrically opposed to the Torah and Judaism. That is a simple fact.
A much better question, then, would be why this site allows “Religious Zionist” idolaters to spew their idolatry. After all, this site calls itself Yeshiva World News, not Mizrachi World News.simcha613:
Your claims are not based in reality. Jews lived in Eretz Yisrael long before the Zionists invaded in the early 20th century, and well before they declared their “State” in 1948. As well, Jews throughout the ages tangibly expressed their ahavas haAretz by moving there, including the Or HaChaim HaKadosh hundreds of years ago and many, many, many others.The Zionist “State” has destroyed more Torah than anything else in history. They’ve shmaded at least three generations of Jews, numbering in the millions of people!! The yeshivos there exist despite the Zionists, not because of them. The biggest supporter of Torah currently is actually the Russian President, not the Zionists.
No, the “medina” is not only far from perfect, it is an abomination and massive rebellion against G-d. And it has shmaded generations of Jews as mentioned. If any secular country in the world were to do even a fraction of what the wicked Zionists do to the Jews there, everyone would be yelling about it non-stop. So, to claim as you did that we are “better off with the medina” is both absurd (on a practical level) and heresy: we are always better off following G-d’s wishes, not massively rebelling against him as the Zionist “State” was, is and does.
You are also totally misrepresenting the origins of Zionism. The express purpose of Zionism always was and remains today: change Judaism from a Torah-based religion to an anti-G-d idolatrous nation-state-based “religion”.
Hashem did not choose to grant any yeshuos through the Zionists. Hashem did listen to those who prayed for the Zionists and did give them success, to the tremendous detriment of Jews worldwide. “We” do not have a medina. “We” do not have E”Y. We could have visited E”Y before the Zionists came, and could have lived there before then, too. The Zionists have wreaked havoc and cataclysmic destruction there in E”Y.
It is shocking that above even has to be written and is not already obvious to all.
anonymous Jew:
Actually, it is not “like any other legitimate government”. The Zionists made a deal back when they first founded their “State” that Agudah would not publicly deny the Zionists’ outrageously false claim of representing Jews, in return for the Zionists not interfering with the chareidim there, allowing them to educate their children according to the Torah and exempting those Jews from the Zionists’ shamd army. Their whole “State” would never have come into being if not for that deal, which the wicked Zionists have now totally torpedoed.none2.0:
You seem confused as to reality. Did you know that Jews were able to visit the Kosel before 1948 and that only thanks to the Zionists’ war of “independence” did the Jews lose the ability to go to the Kosel? Were it not for Zionism and its “State”, Mashiach would have (not just could have but would have) been here decades ago (according to both the Brisker Rav and Satmar Rav), so we would certainly have had no problem going to the holy land. But, besides for that, the Jews lived peacefully with their neighbors in the holy land until the Zionist interlopers came in and lit the region aflame. Yes, the Chevron Massacre/Pogrom in the 1920s was a direct result of Zionism, of course.yechiell:
By Moshe Rabbeinu, G-d explicitly instructed the Jews then to go up and conquer the land. The plan was that they would do so without any war, like when they blew the shofar around Jericho and the walls came down, etc. As well, his army consisted of only supremely righteous Jews, never mind that the high spiritual level of a typical Jew then is unimaginable to us today. As Chazal say, even a maidservant at the sea saw greater spiritual visions than did Yechezkel the prophet.As opposed to today, Zionism is itself a gross rebellion against G-d (unlike Moshe Rabbeinu, of course) and the Zionist army is designed expressly to shmad Jews and is a den of all three of the inviolable sins, A”Z, giluy arayos and shifachas damim.
For starters. So, it’s not even a question.
SQUARE_ROOT:
Achdus is required among Jews, excluding idolaters and heretics.
The Chazon Ish held that wine owned by a “Religious Zionist” is yayin nesech.So long as the Zionists continue to lie that they represent Jews and continue to shmad Jews, causing some Jews to pray for that idol and, even worse, to be attached to that idol, CH”V, it is the wicked Zionists that are impeding the geulah.
yankel berel:
That is inaccurate, of course. G-d, as per His Torah and as stated by the Torah sages then and afterwards (including but not at all limited to the Satmar Rav), is the One Who had a problem with the Zionist enterprise including, but certainly not limited to, the mass settling of the land against the will of the gentiles that the Zionists accomplished via war, all forbidden.Interesting.
First, a general observation: many things that the goyim do actually have their roots in our mesorah. That doesn’t make their version right, of course, but just worth noting.Now, let’s take your points one at a time:
There is certainly a mekor for giving gifts of jewelry to the Kallah, as we see from Eliezer eved Avraham and on.
There are mekoros for wearing white, in various contexts, as it is a sign of purity, which makes sense considering that they just had their personal Yom Kippur that day.
The types of hotels to which newlyweds go (meaning, nothing you would allow your kids to go near) are very unlikely to be infamous for those types of activities.
The solution to that is either for men to not watch that video or, better, for the videographer to create two final videos: one with the dancing and one without.
The last point is certainly true, though.SQUARE_ROOT:
I assume you won’t bother responding and will just find some more hevel uReus ruach to copy/paste to a new thread and just ignore the Torah’s view against your idolatry. But, on the off-chance that you do read this…Your latest response to me is full of nonsense, and my quote of the Torah’s view on this topic has never been refuted, to my humble knowledge.
“Religious Zionism” is idolatry as per Rav Elchonon, the Brisker Rav (who lived there, too), and all the rest. No, of course that has zero to do with the first Rashi in chumash, Avraham Avinu and all the mitzvos that are dependent on being in E”Y. Your giluy panim baTorah sheLo kaHalacha of the gemara regarding one who lives in chutz laAretz is also silly. The basic understanding of that gemara is that those who live in Hashem’s land, E”Y, are under the “direct oversight”, so to speak, of Hashem, as opposed to those who live outside E”Y who are *also* under the oversight of the “sar” of the nation in which they live. Of course, the “sar” of the Zionist paradise is the Satan, so that presumably puts those living there under the oversight of the satan, too.
Your academic question of why the oaths do not appear in the Rambam’s Yad and in the S”A has zero impact on the halachic relevance of the oaths, as brought down by numerous poskim throughout the ages.
Additionally, the nations of the world did not ever approve the creation of a Jewish State in 1920, as you falsely claimed. Balfour did signify British approval of a “national homeland” for the Jews, but not necessarily sovereignty, and that declaration was anyways rescinded by the subsequent White Papers and also clarified by the British that the Zionists “read much more” into Balfour than was written there.
Even if none of that were true, that doesn’t at all mean, as you again falsely claim and with zero basis for the same, that “therefore the oaths cannot apply in our time”. Of course they can and do apply, and the creation of the Zionist paradise has zero impact on that applicability because, in part, it is those very oaths that forbade the founding of that “State” (in addition to the numerous other halachic problems in founding that “State”). Again, all the prohibitions of the oaths, including Meridah baUmos, dechikas haKetz and aliyah baChoma, remain just as severely prohibited now as they were throughout the ages.
Yes, Rav Elchonon never saw the “State”. But he saw its ideological engine, Zionism, quite well. And the Brisker Rav, the Chazon Ish and many other gedolim certainly did see that “State” and even lived in it, and held the same as did Rav Elchonon that Zionism is heresy and idolatry.
The Zionist victory in 1967 was not miraculous; it was derech haTeva. There certainly was hashgacha from Hashem, just as there is anything that Jews do. But their victory was very much not miraculous.
That “baal teshuva” movement you mentioned was only needed because the Zionists shmaded almost all the Jews there to begin with! And that anyways doesn’t change the Torah CH”V.
The Satmar Rav expressed numerous severe problems with the Zionist “State”, but socialism was obviously not a very big concern of his.
Regarding your ramblings at the end of your post:
No, there is no valid logic to those who disagree with the Torah’s viewpoint of the idol and heresy of Zionism. No, asking the gentiles to “take over” would not in any way lead to a “civil war” and attacks on Jews and another Holocaust, CH”V. First of all, it is the Zionists who caused the Holocaust (primarily to achieve their “State” afterwards. So that concern wouldn’t apply here. Second, the Jews there would be much safer under a normal gentile government than under the Zionist idolaters and heretics under which they live now. That is true both materially and spiritually. Your accusations of me at the end of your post are totally baseless and beyond the pale – and you’re likely projecting given that you are the Zionist.LMT:
Just because the Zionist flag itself is not an idol, according to Rav Moshe, that doesn’t at all change the psak of all the gedolim both before and after him that Zionism itself certainly is A”Z. Pretty straightforward.AAQ and Simcha613:
As Rabbi Jachter quoted from the Chofetz Chaim and Rav Moshe that it is forbidden to teach gemara to women and to normalize it for them, as the MO do. No sources permit that. If some women – with no schooling in gemara and with no encouragement to do so – choose on their own to learn gemara, that’s a different – and personal – matter. But, again, the Modern Orthodox attempt to stretch BY to learning gemara simply does not work and is wrong. Period.SQUARE_ROOT:
All wrong and misquoted. And it is you and some of the other idolaters who are the ones doing what you accuse others.Yankel berel:
The Maharal holds that violating the oaths is never permitted, yehareig viAl yaavor. Regardless, the Zionist army is, liChol haDeios, yehareig viAl yaavor. So, this is anyway just academic, if your point is to try to convince people to allow the Zionists to shmad them (and expose them to all three of the gimmel chamuros – and much more) in that Zionist army.yankel berel:
As mentioned on other threads, the fact that it’s not mentioned in various sefarim does not at all indicate that those sefarim dispute the halachic applicability of the oaths.Go ahead and quote and cite the Avnei Nezer where/what he says that the oaths are not halachically applicable.
Meanwhile, there are numerous sources brought down by the Satmar Rav and others of poskim throughout the ages who invoke the oaths as being halachically applicable, with some bringing examples of the same, like Ben Koziva and the rivers of blood of millions (or more) of Jews there, et al.
ZSK:
I meant Iggeres Teiman; sorry about that. Regardless, the facts are, as mentioned above, that the oaths are brought down by poskim throughout the ages, and the Satmar Rav did not invent them and their applicability.yankel berel:
Self-defense, however it is needed, would be permitted only if running away is not an option. But the Zionist shmad army is totally irrelevant to all of that.yankel berel:
You can laugh, but you can’t invent your own facts.
Avnei Neizer did not dispute the halachic applicability of the oaths. Go ahead and quote and cite what he said about that.
“Not mentioned” does not in any way mean dispute.
But, as mentioned, the Satmar Rav (Zionists brains automatically turn off) brings down many poskim who do bring – in their halacha sefarim – the halachic applicability of the oaths.
The oaths are undisputed halachically in force; go ahead and quote and cite a source that show one who does dispute it. But keep laughing.Square_Root:
More copy/paste Zionism already debunked elsewhere on these boards.yankel berel:
This isn’t a question. Both can be true, of course. If you are unable to run away, then you have no choice but to fight. But, of course, the preference is to run away, not to fight. Also, this is all anyways irrelevant to Zionism and its army, because that army is an army of shmad and all three of the gimmel chamuros. So, even if there were a need to fight, then that would still not even remotely permit anyone to be shmaded in the Zionist army.ard:
The CC quotes the Ramban there, if memory serves, that the prep for “war” that Yaakov did was to prepare to run away.AAQ:
You’re comparing Yiftach and Pinchas to the Chazon Ish and liHavdil elef alfai havdalos, the heretic David Green? Green went to him because he felt it would be politically beneficial to do so, of course, not because he was in the slightest interested in daas Torah.
Also, you’re stating that, by Yiftach, the only “daas Torah” was after the war, not on his appointment as leader and general before the war?SQUARE_ROOT:
He was also a Zionist (and a terrorist). It’s nice that he kept Shabbos (for whatever were his reasons) but, as you presumably know, if one denies even one letter of the Torah, then he is a heretic. Zionism denies the entire Torah, of course, and he was the leader of that “State”.☕️coffee addict:
Good point. It’s all nonsense, of course.More Zionist nonsense and lies.
“There is no rational path from gas chambers to global influence.”
That’s true. Except, in this case, the Zionists already had global influence long before the gas chambers (which they both caused and contributed to Jews being murdered in those).“Israel” is not an “ancient race” nor is it any of that other nonsense. It is an imposter “State” pretending to represent Jews while simultaneously committed to destroying Judaism and Jews and replacing those with Zionism and Zionists.
Regarding your personal comment, obviously, the “return” of Jews to the holy land in a manner that was and is against the will of G-d, is obviously not the fulfillment of any biblical prophecy of “returning to the land”. That discusses when Mashiach comes, of course.
Artscroll fantasies about the Zionists do make for nice reading material. But that’s also nonsense. Did they pray for him? Could be; he was a Jew, shmaded by Zionists as a child, after all. Did that mean that they endorsed anything about him and his “State”? Obviously not. Did they “respect him”? They also respected the Pope (and other world leaders). Hallalu ovdei A”Z vaHallalu ovdei A”Z.
Only brainwashed idolaters and the worst trolls refuse to see the truth that Zionism is idolatry and heresy and that it has caused cataclysmic damage to the Jewish people including destroying the Judaism of multiple generations of hundreds of thousands of Jews, if not more than that. And the oaths are undisputed halacha for many centuries, with actual examples brought down by Torah giants of what happened when the oaths were violated, including Ben Koziva and the Holocaust, both of which were the greatest causes of oceans of spilled Jewish blood, R”L L”A.
Eileh elohecha, Zionists.
LerntminTayrah:
You also need to understand Torah, not just learn it. And learn history.A shul with an abomination that is the Israeli flag does not automatically make the shul a place of idolatry. It does make it very strange, because flags don’t belong in shuls, in general – certainly not that of a foreign country – but that has nothing to do with the fact that Zionism is very clearly A”Z, as explicitly stated in writing by Rav Elchonon, the Brisker Rav, the Chazon Ish, and all the rest.
The Kastner train was largely funded by Agudah and American money. Regardless, that train was obviously not an idolatrous train, whatever that could even mean.
It isn’t wise to throw around expressions like even a one-day student knows, when the truth of what you claim is the opposite. First, you seem to have missed that meenus is very attractive, as Chazal point out, and that applies even today. As well, just because the yetzer hara for idolatry was removed, that doesn’t mean that therefore A”Z doesn’t exist. That’s silly. There is nothing stopping you from bowing down to a rock if you decided to do so. You have free will. It’s silly, of course, but that doesn’t mean you can’t do it. Same with Zionism. It’s very silly (far worse than that, actually), yet some still believe in that idol (and heresy).
yankel berel:
Nope. Nobody ever stated that “its preferable to rather let millions of innocent yehudim die , than be over on their corrupted version of non existent halachik shavu’ot.” That’s your invention. Of course, we all want all Jews to be well and good. But that doesn’t make it right to violate the oaths, of course.ZSK:
No, because you continue to perpetuate myths. I specifically wrote BUT NOT LIMITED TO to address your opinion on Moreh nevuchim. It doesn’t matter, even if you believe differently there. The poskim throughout the ages bring the oaths as halachically binding. To just reiterate the rest of the quote from my prior post: “Even the famous supposed quote from the Or Sameach that the Zionists love to distort (as mentioned above), clearly indicates that the oaths are halacha. Period. Please stop already with the nonsense that it is “non-halachic” just because it’s mentioned in an aggadita gemara.”AAQ:
“HaKatan, maybe I was not clear. This educated women need to have access to Judaism at comparable level they have to other areas of knowledge…”You seem to be proposing that because women know secular subjects on advanced levels that, therefore, they must also learn gemara (on high levels, lectures, BM, et al.) I don’t see any logic connecting those two.
Judge Ruchie Freier, for example, is a chassidic woman. I very highly doubt that she has ever learned gemara in any formal setting, if at all. Yet, she is perfectly capable of being a judge of secular law.
Again, simply speaking, G-d does not permit women to learn gemara, unlike men, as the CC noted and as Rav Moshe Feinstein noted, both quoted in the article by LBC”L Rabbi Jachter. Yet you come up with a sevara of them needing to do so just because some have advanced knowledge in secular topics? One has nothing to do with the other, as mentioned.
DaMoshe:
Zionism is idolatry, as you have seen on these boards numerous times, and you could open a Kovetz Maamarim from Rav Elchonon and the other sefarim that discuss it and label it as exactly that. There is nothing “hateful” about that. You are both ignoring reality and accusing falsely because, presumably, you want to have your idol of Zionism as you were taught/shmaded, rather than reading Torah sources on the matter and taking that to your rabbis to at least try to get an opinion from them.The gemara there states clearly that if not for the Zionists of the time, the baryonim, Jerusalem would never have been destroyed. The gemara indicates that the nephew of RYBZ was a leader of those thugs, as AAQ mentioned. These wicked thugs intentionally destroyed decades worth of stored food, plunging the city into horrific hunger, as the gemara describes, just to attempt to force Jews to join them in fighting the Romans rather than the Rabbonim’s approach of making peace. Again, Jerusalem would have never been destroyed had the wicked thugs not destroyed the people and the city from within.
ZSK:
In Egypt, prior to Matan Torah, we certainly did have our own mode of dress, language and names, as we know. That was necessary at that time, since we hadn’t yet received the Torah.“Am”, as it appears in the Torah, refers either to the Erev Rav, or to Klal Yisrael, the “People” who accepted the Torah, as in the “Am Hashem”. It has nothing to do with standard nationalist trappings. As Rav Saadiah Gaon wrote, our being one “People” is only through the Torah. Period. Nothing to do with “Nationalist” anything.
The Zionist usage of “Am Yisrael”, however, certainly is a misnomer because it refers to the citizens of the Zionist State.
anon1m0us:
No, that would be because the wicked Zionists lobbied governments against allowing Jews to escape to their countries and sabotaged other rescue efforts and on and on and on.AAQ:
Rabbi Dr. Soloveichik gave a public talmud class to women in Stern College for Women. MO schools have batei midrash where girls learn random gemaras. That is all wrong. Period. None of your arguments about how they need to better understand hilchos basar viChalav are in any way relevant to all of that. Let them understand basar biChalav as well as they can. But they do not need to learn gemara just like the men do. This is an MO delusion, not a valid reason to violate the Torah, which is what that is.And, again, the biggest raayah to that is that lots of orthodox girls go on to get advanced degrees just like MO girls do – yet none of the Orthodox girls feel the need to learn gemara, unlike the MO delusion about their girls needing to do so.
The answer is changing MO “culture” (like not lying to them from when they are children that they have to learn just like boys do) – or, more accurately, simply becoming Orthodox – not rebelling against G-d the His Torah.
yankel berel:
You are conflating (as Zionists always do) two different matters.
Regarding the cataclysmic mess that the Zionists made in the holy land, and against the wishes of the Jews there, it is indeed only reasonable that the Zionists attempt to clean up their own mess and leave the Jews out of it. Of course, the wicked Zionists are attempting to shmad the Jews there, and at levels never seen before, and harass and impoverish the Jews there.The other point is self-defense, to which all agree that one must defend one’s self, particularly if leaving the area of conflict is not possible. But the Zionist army is not relevant to that point, as the Zionist army is a shmad factory with all three of the gimmel chamuros, so that’s obviously a non-starter, regardless.
The nonsense about evacuating 8 million people is a straw man argument. As written above, if the Zionists wanted to end their forever wars – and the billions of dollars they needlessly waste each year on “defense” – they could go to the nations who would find a solution that would ensure the safety of the Jews (far better than the Zionists ever could) while ending Zionism and the mess the Zionists made, as the Satmar Rav wrote decades ago. But, of course, the Zionists would never do that, because, in their idolatrous anti-Jewish faith, Zionism is above all else including Jewish lives, as the Zionists demonstrated more than amply during (and before and after) the Holocaust.
DaMoshe:
You are a Zionist idolater who falsely and baselessly accuses others of “hate”. As an idolater attempting to spread that idolatry here, it is you who is showing hatred to G-d, His Torah and His people.DaMoshe:
Pathetic non-answer.The idolaters have no answer because, as mentioned, since no group of Orthodox Jewish women from then until now ever felt the need to learn Talmud, that obviously means that the problem (of “needing” to do so) is MO, not Judaism, of course.
Return to full Torah allegiance rather than a maskilic dilution of the same.
But, since you mentioned hate, the only ones to whom that applies are:
“Halo misanecha Hashem esna…”
So, are you implying that you Zionist idolaters fall into that category? I would hope not.All the Zionists are so aduk to their idol that they simply cannot see reality, no matter what anyone says.
As the Chazon Ish noted, one morning, we will wake up to discover that the Zionist “State” simply no longer exists.
The Brisker Rav (if memory serves) stated that Mashiach will (of course) take control of the land but not directly from the Zionists.
The Satmar Rav stated that everything (infrastructure?) the Zionists made will be destroyed and that, yes, if the Zionists wanted to resolve their cataclysmic problem they caused, they could go to the nations and they would find a way.The truth obviously is that there certainly could be a way (or many ways) in which the Zionist paradise could be changed into a normal country under control of Esav without any Jews CH”V being hurt. But the Zionists would never even consider that, because Zionism is the top priority in that idolatrous faith, far higher than even Jewish lives. Eileh elohecha, Zionists.
I don’t understand why these Zionist idolaters continue to insist they are right and making silly claims like the Satmar Rav does not pasken for all of Jewry and the like.
This is all silly, and all you Zionist idolaters have gotten your answers to your non-questions many times already but you just keep repeating them and copy/pasting random things.
The S”A quote about fighting off enemies has zero to do with the shmad Zionist army. It is yehareig viAl yaavor to join that army. That army is a den of shmad and all three of the gimmel chamuros, as even the “Religious Zionist” boys are crying to their rabbis. Please stop with this nonsense.
The Satmar Rav was not the one who invented the oaths and their halachic applicability. But he does bring down numerous poskim through the ages, including BUT NOT LIMITED TO the Rambam, who invoked them as halachically binding. The midrash indicates that the oaths were the reason or the unimaginable ocean of Jewish blood spilled in response to Ben Koziva’s rebellion in Beisar. And on and on and on. Even the famous supposed quote from the Or Sameach that the Zionists love to distort (as mentioned above), clearly indicates that the oaths are halacha. Period. Please stop already with the nonsense that it is “non-halachic” just because it’s mentioned in an aggadita gemara.
Regarding the quote from Rav Yaakov, assuming it is accurate and in context, even if he did think so then, he certainly did not remain with that opinion. He wrote to the Satmar Rav that – as the latter had written that if even one Jew is convinced then all the effort he put into writing his sefarim – the Satmar Rav has succeeded in that he has convinced Rav Yaakov.
Regardless, the Zionists have shmaded generations of Jews, and are feverishly attempting to finally destroy the olam haTorah in E”Y.
Again, this is all silly. If your need to worship your Zionist idol keeps you coming back to post more nonsense, that doesn’t obligate anyone to respond.
AAQ:
No, not at all.You cannot compare this MO delusion of girls “needing to learn gemara” to the pre-BY era of the CC.
As you, yourself, wrote, the CC recognized then that a problem existed, and Hashem allowed Ms. Schenirer to come up with an idea to address the problem which was fully in accordance with halacha, which the CC indeed approved. But nobody disagreed that there was a problem and, for that matter, the gedolim agreed to the solution, too.As opposed to this MO delusion of women needing to learn gemara, there, both back then and continuing all the way until today – no group of Orthodox women ever felt/feel that they need to learn gemara. There never was such a problem; it’s an MO delusion (stemming from haskala/modernity, of course). As mentioned, if MO would instead be Orthodox then they, too, wouldn’t have this problem.
Your second paragraph is not addressing what I wrote. I did not argue that women cannot be doctors or the like. Regardless, as mentioned, it is still an MO delusion/modernity to decide that girls “need to learn gemara” regardless of, liHavdil, how much secular knowledge they do or don’t have. One has nothing to do with the other.
DaMoshe:
His article is indeed well-written.
But, by “great”, you presumably mean for today’s maskilim who disregard mesorah in favor of anything from the talmud professor of YU (who also disregarded mesorah, especially his family’s mesorah by his adopting the idolatry and heresy of Zionism) that they call “the Rav”.Rav Moshe Feinstein was the Posek HaDor.
As the article points out, he ruled that women may not study even mishnayos – never mind gemara – other than pirkei avos.Rabbi Dr. Soloveichik was “responsible for all the tuma in America” according to Rav Aharon Kotler, and he also was the head of “Mizrachi”, meaning “Religious Zionist” idolatry and heresy, in America, so his opinion is anyways irrelevant to Orthodox Judaism. The talmud lecture he gave to the Stern College women was also obviously not permitted.
Rabbi Twersky’s attempt to justify his grandfather’s non-halachic pirtza mentioned above simply doesn’t work, and it is also absurd to compare that to the Chofetz Chaim’s heter of teaching chumash and mussar, as he did.
Rabbi Twersky writes, “If ever circumstances dictate that study of the Oral Law is necessary to provide a firm foundation for faith, such study becomes obligatory and obviously lies beyond the pale of any prohibition.” Even if that “heter” were theoretically true – still, none of the Orthodox (i.e., non-MO) schools ever dreamed that “circumstances dictate that study of the Oral Law is necessary to provide a firm foundation for faith”. So, no, of course his pirtza and disregarding of mesorah by permitting that which had always been forbidden were not needed and, yes, it obviously was “an instance of modernism”, and not “Torah intuition” unlike Rabbi Twersky’s attempt to claim otherwise.
As Rabbi Jachter quoted from the Satmar Rav, “the Chafetz Chaim limited his permission to the study of Tanach and Mussar.” As mentioned earlier in the article, the CC did so because the women otherwise would “deviate entirely from the way of Hashem and the Torah”. To extend that to, not only permitting but actively encouraging, talmud is simply absurd.
In fact, the MO’s claim to “need” this for their women – when no Orthodox women needed this, not then and not now – means that there is something very rotten with MO education and “culture” – and they should fix that (i.e., become Orthodox, of course) and then their imagined problem of this “need” of talmud for women would also be solved. Kind of interesting that none of them seem to notice that. But that’s anyways all nonsense; it’s not needed, and all the Orthodox women who don’t need it are the biggest proof that this imagined need of MO is nonsense.
Rabbi Aharon Soloveitchik was, like his father-in-law, a “Religious Zionist”, which means that his opinions are also irrelevant to Orthodox Judaism. Regardless, even if it were true, as he claims, that “Chazal only prohibited coercing women to study Torah. If, however, they choose to learn Torah, then they deserve full support of the community”, that would not at all justify setting up “Beit midrash programs”, or talmud lectures in Stern College, that encourage women to do so. This is both disingenuous and silly.
As Rav Aharon Kotler wrote, Rabbi Dr. Soloveichik was responsible for all the tuma in America. Just become Orthodox already and drop the idol and all the silliness.
anIsraeliZionist:
CH”V. We know that Hashem does good for even wicked people. As we know, “uM’shaleim liSonav el panav liHaavido…” But the point is that He does that good in order to finish them off later so that there will be nothing left of them – like He will also do with the Zionist idol, of course.Our duty is to follow Hashem’s definition of good and bad and right and wrong, and to then interpret current events through that lens rather than through the idolatrous lens of Zionism.
BB:
As previously mentioned, liHalacha, a belief of heresy does not necessarily make one into a heretic. For example, the Raavad on someone CH”V believing that Hashem has a body, based on what the simple man might have read in the Torah. That is heresy, because Hashem is infinite and has no body, but mistakenly believing in that doesn’t necessarily make someone into a heretic and therefore they wouldn’t have the issues you described.Regarding “If you need to think who is more deserving of shunning, a person who dies defending his brothers and sisters wearing a kippa and tzitziz vs NK who gives support to our enemies, then woe onto you.”, this is just idolatrous rhetoric. Of course, if someone is actually matzil nefashos, then he is obviously doing a great thing, according to our Torah. That doesn’t necessarily apply to any specific soldier in the shmad IDF, but it could apply to some.
As opposed to the NK member, he is not supporting “our” enemies. He is essentially conveying to whatever rotzeiach leader it is with whom he is meeting to not blame Jews for what the Zionists do or don’t do, since Zionism is in fact the polar opposite of Judaism and that the Zionists represent nobody other than themselves, certainly not worldwide Jewry as the Zionists often prattle on in their bombastic propaganda lies.
So, yes, an NK member could potentially be saving far more lives than a random Zionist soldier, and that’s assuming that the soldier is actually saving lives rather than just doing whatever it is his secular Zionist commander requires of him which might actually be against the Torah which means that by definition he is hurting Jews, not helping.
But that wasn’t even the point. The point, as mentioned, was that if someone supports the Zionist idol (not individual soldiers in its shmad army) yet hates the NK, then he is obviously not working from a Torah perspective but rather an idolatrous Zionist perspective.
SQUARE_ROOT:
They weren’t responding to Zionist idolaters and heretics who endlessly spout nonsense Zionist propaganda idolatry and heresy.Regardless, there are many times in which the gemara begins telling a story with “haHu min…”, or “There was a heretic…”. Note that the gemara does not say that we *think* he’s a heretic but we allow for his delusion to claim otherwise. No. It stated simply and clearly that he was a heretic.
yankel berel:
You write that one who is trying to defend the Torah is “running away”. But I don’t see you commenting about how all the Zionist idolaters have run away. Why the double standard? They get to blaspheme the Torah and then, when they are answered, they don’t respond. But when someone defends the Torah and doesn’t respond to some nonsense follow-up, then you call that “running away”. But not when the Zionists don’t respond to a substantive follow-up.It’s pathetic that people just post nonsense against G-d and His Torah and then don’t have the decency to respond that they were wrong and that their idol of Zionism distorted their minds.
anIsraeliZionist:
You misread that. He didn’t write that the Zionist victory against Iran was “revelation of G-d”.
He wrote that (in general) that we are seeing the “revelation of G-d” now, whatever exactly that is supposed to mean.For example, if Ukraine’s Iron Dome is not succeeding nearly as well as is Israel’s then obviously that is Hashem’s hashgacha in protecting His holy people.
More importantly, though, the Zionists are, as the Satmar Rav noted, like the arsonist who comes with a fire hose to put out the fire of a home that he himself set. Would you say that an arsonist must be zakai if he was able to put out some of the fire that destroyed that home? No, of course not, as he should never have set that fire in the first place, and the little firefighting only slightly lessened the tremendous bad that he did, not that it was in itself good.
Same with the Zionists. They have lit the region on fire and made problems for, and rebelled against the nations, all around the world. Whatever little Hashem allows them to do to slightly lower their damage from a level 10 to a level 9.5, obviously does not make them “zakai”.
ZSK:
Again, “Religious Zionism” is in fact idolatry and heresy according to the Torah and as clearly specified in writing by the major gedolim of Klal Yisrael over the past century. That is a fact, which you wish not to accept but the “therefore” of that is very clear: one who believes in that – that Judaism is that false religion of “Religious Zionism” (a”l) – is therefore serving idols and believing in heresy. Whether they are considered to be heretics could depend on their background, etc. But their belief is absolutely heretical and idolatrous. That is not “denigrating” anyone; that is simply pointing out the Torah’s opinion about those who have chosen to adulterate the Torah with their idol and heresy.