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tunaisafish:
There is also a Chazal in Pirkei Avos about being dan liKav Zechus.
I can’t speak for others, but when I saw someone asking “who cares what some in Chabad believe?” I thought it appropriate to answer why it might be rather important to know.@n0mesorah:
Your screen name is instructive here.If your idea of truth is what the Zionists propagandize then, unfortunately, you can’t recognize the truth.
If your idea of Zionist history begins in 1948 then, unfortunately, you are missing many decades of Zionist history (and the gross misfortune to Jews that came with that) which preceded that, and during which Rav Elchonon very much did live.
The Zionists did not suddenly snap their fingers in 1948 and create their idolatrous shmad state. They amassed almost $100,000,000 dollars (in 1940s money) in weapons first. They also had a provisional government prior to 1948. Etc.
@moishekapoieh:
For ashkenazim, it would be easier to call it “medinas yisrael” rather than the the sefardic (adapted by the Zionists for shmad) “medinat…”.You happen to be right, though, that Eretz Yisrael should not be conflated with, liHavdil, the Zionist State, and the violence in question is a matter pertaining to the Zionist State, not to E”Y.
So, a better topic would have been “Violence in the State of Israel”.
Regarding the Zionist propaganda nonsense about 2,00 years of torture and death, while there certainly have been occasional periods of immense suffering in this long galus, nonetheless, the Zionist State is the worst galus, galus under the Yevsektzia (the Jewish communists) as Rav Elchonon Wasserman put it.
The Zionists also played a significant role in WW II, both spiritually and physically.
So, to be clear, no, “we” do not have our own “medina”. The Zionists have invaded portions of E”Y and falsely declared that the Zionists represent all Jews and that their Zionist State is the “Jewish” State when in fact it is only the “Zionist”, not Jewish, State.
No mesorah:
That might be, for starters, because their influence is worldwide and people who eat meat slaughtered by them (by the neo-Christians, not by the “Meshichists”) would be eating neveila.Dora:
Your definition of “very small” includes their “Ask the Rabbi” host, on the video posted on an earlier thread, where he responded that his Rebbe’s characteristics include being infinite (ain sof), Godly (elokus), atzmius (God incarnate), among others.This is neo-Christianity, not Judaism, and Rav Aharon Feldman wrote that people who carry such beliefs are not “bichlal amisecha”, their shechita is invalid, their wine is yayin nesech, et al.
It is highly disingenuous to compare this to your hypothetical and non-existent example wherein you named Satmar.
Always_Ask_Questions:
His party platform is only part of the issue. You didn’t consider that every Zionist (and party) has signed on to the Zionist “Jerusalem Program”, which is heretical and idolatrous Zionism.The “definition” of Zionism is not an issue. Also, anything that removes Hashem from the equation is, of course, beyond the pale and not a “hashkafa” dispute. But that’s almost besides the point.
@Always_Ask_Questions:
The facts have all been listed, and they are not feelings but facts.Liberman is not a Zionist? The very name of his party which he heads is pretty indicative that he is.
@Marxist:
Those differences do not make for a practical difference. It’s been explained many times, but certain people seem unwilling to believe it.The shmad that underlies all of those idolators is that the Jewish people and faith would need to be changed to an idolatrous Nationalist/land-based godless people and faith.
Always_Ask_Questions:
No, it is not outdated but current. The Zionists in the Zionist State still target Chareidim and the Torah, and are still essentially the same Zionists as their predecessors (less “labor” more “militancy”, but that’s not relevant). Zionism is all about changing the Jew and his religion from Torah-based to godless and idolatrous Nation-State based.This is evil, heretical and offensive to every believing Jew, except for those who worship that idol of Zionism. It is not history; it is current, even more so, in some cases, with the current band of thug Zionists in power in the Zionist State.
No, to be clear, nobody hates the Jews in Israel who the Zionists shmaded and who don’t know any better thanks to that Zionist shmad. But that Zionist shmad should certainly be recognized for the horror, multi-generation, that it is, rather than being ignored in favor of idol worship of Zionism.
@Avi K:
Denying reality, which is the vast majority of your post at 8:28 AM, isn’t very practical.I will note though that the Chazon Ish noted that there are two types of apikorsim today: those who celebrate Yom haAtzamos and those who blame the gedolim for the deaths of Jews in Europe.
Looks like you’re 2 for 2.
Of course, the Zionists totally omit their anti-Jewish activities before and during WW II, like the Zionists lobbying governments AGAINST accepting Jewish refugees from the Holocaust, which lead to the deaths of untold numbers of Jews in the Holocaust.
In addition, the Nazis were poised to invade Palestine and it was only Hashem’s chessed that stopped them from doing so. The Brisker Rav left Europe for Palestine, during the war, despite the physical danger of going to Palestine, only because of chinuch. He felt that it was better to risk the physical danger in Palestine.
edited
Perhaps it’s not interesting to you because you don’t believe obvious facts and plain history?
Zionism is all about replacing G-d and His Torah as the basis of Jews and Judaism with, instead, idolatrous godless Nationalism. This is not in dispute. This is, of course, therefore, the basis of their “education” in schools and indoctrination in their shmad army. In their army, they define what is Judaism, not what is an Israeli “national”. That is shmad.
The Zionists have been shmading Jews in Israel since before 1948.
That’s at least approx. 3/4 of a century. That’s easily three generations.You don’t want proofs; you want to believe in your idol. We just read this morning: “eile elohecha…”
Always_Ask_Questions:
The original Zionism is very much alive today.The entire purpose of Zionism is to replace both the Jewish people and the Jewish religion with a godless nationalist/Zionist gentile new Jew.
The Zionists have shmaded now three generations of “Israelis” and are attempting to further shmad the remainder of non-Zionist Jews under their control.
Maybe you are the one who needs to get out a little more and simply observe what goes in in Israel and around the world?
smerel:
I’m sorry that the three generations of Jews in Israel that the Zionists shmaded are of no consequence to you. It’s unfortunate that the spread of the heresy of Zionism worldwide is of no relevance to you.Zionism openly fights G-d far more than does Reform, and has far, far greater influence (including in this very forum) than does Reform. It’s not “nu, nu, not so bad”. Of course Reform is bad. But Zionism, from then until now, is orders of magnitude worse.
It’s too bad that you are preventing yourself from objectively evaluation that the Zionists have and continue to do far greater damage to Klal Yisrael than anything. Reform and Footsteps are a relative drop in that ocean in comparison.
@smerel:
No, American Kiruv organizations do not “focus on Israeli yordim” to the exclusion of American College students as you falsely imply.Rav Yaakov actually retracted that very statement after learning the Satmar Rav’s sefarim on Zionism, and told that to the Satmar Rav.
If not for the Zionists, Mashiach would have come in 1948, as both the Brisker Rav and Satmar Rav said. That’s first of all.
Besides for that, let’s repeat once again: the Zionist have shmaded at least three generations of Jews, especially the ones under their control in their Zionist State of Israel. That perspective is obvious nowadays, of course, to anyone not blinded by that Zionist idol.
Let’s be even more clear. The very purpose of Zionism and its State was, is and always will be Zionism, which is to redefine Judaism and its people from Torah-based to idolatrous Nation-State/Land/Zionist/Israel-based.
So, no, the Zionist “ideal”, and practice of the same (meaning shmad) is, unfortunately, very, very much alive, and is, by far, the greatest source of shmad worldwide, far, far greater than the dying “Reform” and whatever damage “Footsteps” has done.
@Always_Ask_Questions:
You’re not addressing my points but ignoring them.
@Avi K:
CH”V. Classic Zionist go-to line. The ones who truly hate Jews are the Zionists who make gezeiros against the Torah Jews in the parts of E”Y that the Zionists have invaded, known as the Zionist “State of Israel”.That “fact” is irrelevant, as mentioned above. The Zionists shmaded and continue to shmad three generations of Jews, as mentioned above. They support Torah to the extent necessary to “control” it, as they have said for decades.
Your idol of Zionism and its State have been called exactly that, an idol, by all gedolim. May Hashem show you the truth of His Torah and save you from this idol.
@Always_Ask_Questions:
No, my perception does not suffer from any such bias. Nor is it hyperbole.(Regarding Rav Elchonon, you can take out a kovetz maamrim and see for yourself.)
Let’s repeat. For close to a century, from even before the terrible date on which the Zionists founded their shmad State in 1948, the Zionists have ACTIVELY shmaded their “fellow” Jews, intentionally stripping their religion away from them. We now see three generations of Jews that are anywhere between either avowedly anti-religious or, at best, somewhat religious and believing in the idolatry of Zionism, all due only to Zionist shmad.
Nothing like that has happened in the USA. In fact, the opposite has occurred. Moreover, there are numerous kiruv and other places throughout the USA, including on colleges, and in communities. So there are plenty of opportunities for unaffiliated Jews to learn about their heritage. Finally, the USA is a religious country (though the left is certainly trying awfully hard to change that) that both believes in G-d and respects religion, including in their army (very unlike the Zionists). The Zionist entity hates G-d and abhors religion, though they do tolerate Judaism to whatever extent is necessary to “control” it and perpetuate their Big Lie of being the “Jewish” State.
AviraDeArah:
There are a number of very big differences between the two.
Eisav sonei liYaakov is axiomatic, but its practical application depends on, essentially, the degree of separation between Klal Yisrael and the umos. That’s what the Beis HaLeivi wrote on “hamavdil bein kodesh liChol, bein or liChosech, bein Yisrael laAmim…”.
As Rav Miller Zatza”l wrote, before the war, you had whole towns that were frum that became haskala towns. Numerous -isms, including, of course, Zionism, ensnared numerous Jews in their heretical nets. The Satmar Rav wrote how gedolim in the years before WW II said it would be a miracle if something did NOT happen to the Jews there.
Since WW II, however, almost everywhere, there has been an enormous tidal wave of recovery from the war and return to Torah. In the US, for example, the Torah landscape is massive relative to the little that existed before and immediately after WW II.
The only exception is, of course, the Zionist State of Israel, which shmaded and continues to shmad at least three generations now, though some of whom (but certainly not all) have come back to the Torah and, despite the Zionists’ many evils, there are many yeshivos there.
So, if your concern is safety in galus, you probably do not want to be under the Zionists which Rav Elchonon Wasserman called the worst galus of all, the galus of the Yevsektzia. Particularly when looking at a pig-eater like Yvet Lieberman, this becomes all the more apparent, though that applies similarly under the prior atheist Zionist Prime Minister Milikowsky (AKA “Netanyahu”) and all the others that preceded the pseudo-kippah wearing current Zionist PM.
Any claim that Israel is a “safe haven” for Jews is not only delusional but also simple Zionist idolatry. The Zionist mess, on every level, including both spiritual and physical, in the portions of E”Y that they have invaded, are nothing to envy.
re: Asking goyim to intervene is a bad idea:
Not in the case of evil Zionists, it’s not a bad idea.(akuperma: That’s Zionist mythology. The Zionists, as the self-appointed leaders of world Jewry, insisted Palestine or the gas chambers and the Zionists lobbied governments against allowing Jews into their countries.)
Other than the Holocaust (in which, anyways, the Zionists had much more involvement than most people could dream), the worst possible scenario is the Zionists.
Since the Zionists invaded a century ago, the frum community begged the British and UN to leave them separate from the Zionists.
AviraDeArah:
Right on. Yasher Koach.The Zionists don’t allow the chareidim to work unless they convert to Zionism. Abolishing that Zionist cruelty would help.
There is no reason that Hamodia couldn’t have published some pictures and simply captioned it “Rav Shaul Alter visits America”.
The omission of this whole visit was noticeable.
@akuperma
@Yabia OmerActually, the purpose of Zionism was and is, as Rav Chaim Brisker explained a century ago, long before 1948, simply shmad.
He said that people think that the Zionists shmad in order to achieve a State. But it’s the opposite: Zionists need a State in order to shmad.
The main goal of Zionism, as proudly noted on any of their web sites, is to change the Jewish people from a G-dly Torah people to a godless land-based nationalist nation.
That’s the purpose of Zionism. Always was and, of course, still is.
But, yes, chareidim (in and out of Israel) are living proof that Zionism is just a Big Lie and shmad.
“ashviger_with_Liquor”:
That story might be true, but it isn’t honest to claim there’s no way that Rabbi Schneerson ever at least entertained the possibility that he would be Mashiach.Rav Shach, in his efforts to prevent Klal Yisrael from falling for the fallacy of Chabad Messianism, stated that Rabbi Scheerson was trying to convince himself that he is Mashiach.
There’s much out there about this topic of Rabbi Schneerson indicating that he is/will be/could be Mashiach. Tablet magazine has a long article by R’ David Berger from secular year ’14, which has many references to Chabad and other publications, at least some of which (the links) are still active, about this.
Regarding Yaakov Avinu Lo Meis, it doesn’t mean that he didn’t pass away. It says Vayigva, which means according to one meforesh (on Avraham Avinu’s death, as I recall) that he became ill with choli meiayim before he died and then died.
The gemara in Taanis questions on the spot that they embalmed Yaakov and were maspid him, etc. so how could you say that he didn’t die? The gemara then answers that it does NOT say vaYamas because there is a drasha to be made from that omission. But, of course, he did pass away. He is buried in Mesaras haMachpeila. He, himself, told Yosef that he will die “meis”. Etc.
The Zera Shimshon (on ViZos HaBracha, if memory serves) quotes the Zohar that Moshe Rabbeinu lo meis. He says that “meis” means, if I understood correctly, that the neshama ascended to a higher state upon dying, meaning higher than that in which it was previously when alive/in the body.
So, he says, that both by Yaakov and Moshe, their neshama was just as pure, etc. while alive in their body as afterwards when they died and the neshama left their body; Yaakov Avinu, due to all the yissurim that he had in addition to his holiness and purity and Moshe Rabbeinu, of course, being the navi that only he was, etc.
We have a mesorah that Mashiach will come, so Rabbi Hillel’s opinion in the gemara is not practically relevant any more, for whomever brought that up before.
Next, even if Moshiach could be from those who have already passed away, to claim that Rabbi Schneerson, who lived many generations later, is greater than Daniel who was a real navi and whose prophecies are part of our Tanach, or even that he is greater than Rebbi (the compiler of the Mishna), is an absurd non-starter.
And the “Ain sof” line is an even worse heresy than the atzmus stuff. At least the atzmus stuff you could dreidel away with a docheik that is, of course, not the true explanation, but you could at least claim it is.
But saying that any human being is infinite (ain sof) is simply calling them G-d because the only infinite being is G-d himself. That’s it. This is essentially Christianity. Nebach.
The Zionists hate real Judaism because Zionism is all about replacing Judaism with Zionism, as can be seen on the WZO’s web site and elsewhere.
The Zionists, in addition to being heretics who shmad Jews, are also influenced by and have practiced various secular philosophies like Nietzsche’s uber-mensch, which is partly why they hold so much disdain for, and acted so abominably towards, the Yemenites and others.
Does that somewhat answer your questions?
Mobico:
Yes. I did.You could also look around at various communities and workplaces where you live (if you live in a civilized country). No way are those numbers remotely possible.
As well, it seems very ill-advised (no pun intended) to take the numbers from the world as a whole and then use that as a basis for advice you give to people in civilized countries. It would make much more sense to use just the numbers from that country or, at most, from only first-world countries.
mobico:
Your numbers are obviously grossly inaccurate, well beyond the point of absurdity.mobico:
1 out of 50 who contract Covid then die? Do you mean after 120 years?The survival rate of Covid is somewhere around 99.9%.
When davening in MO shuls, I find it strange that not only do the congregants not wear hats, including, in many cases, the Rabbi, many congregants (unlike the Rabbi) do not wear the attire that they would wear if meeting a king/nobleman/whatever.
Any MO “halakha” on that topic?
akuperma is, of course, right.
It’s true that hospitals were overwhelmed in the beginning, but that’s partly because Antiochus did not use the Hospital ship that President Trump sent him, and other preventable factors, including that Antiochus also decreed that life-saving treatments, like HCQ+Zinc (not HCQ alone) were forbidden.
This is a chutzpah of the highest order. A doctor should always have the right to say that based on his training and experience, this is what he feels is right for this particular patient. To have a politician deny that, and as a “blanket rule” is, again, a chutzpah of the highest order.
ViHaKesef yaAneh es haKol.
Syag:
No, that was a polite way of saying that he was and is right.I have seen online that people claim that Ivermectin can cure Covid, even once the immune system has attacked the body.
Always_Ask_Questions wrote:
> While I do not want to underestimate the challenges,
> should we not ask –
> what is the value of 12+ years of Jewish education
> that is destroyed in a few months of a dorm?Reply:
“Jewish education” does not typically precede enrolling and moving into a “college dorm”, other than in “Modern Orthodoxy”.Given the adulteration of “MO” education with “modernity”, Zionism and other heresies, it would not be a big surprise that a secular college dorm could do major damage to the soul of a Jew brought up “MO”.
But, even for someone who learned in a school that does not corrupt and taint their Judaism as does “MO”, still, of course a few months in a college dorm are lethal to a Jewish soul, regardless of how good is its education.
There are many examples in our mesorah about this. For example, Rashi tells us that the reason bnei Reuven joined with Korach in his rebellion against (Hashem and) Moshe Rabbeinu was their proximity to Korach. That’s it. Their proximity. Presumably, post-rebellion (start of), the bnei Reuven still learned Torah 24/7 as they always did. Yet even they were affected by this proximity to the point that they rebelled against Moshe Rabbeinu, about whom Hashem had already declared “viGam bicha yaameinu liOlam”.
A Jewish college student who is not only in proximity to all sorts of non-Jewish things, but also might join various non-Jewish activities and is also being actively taught all sorts of heresies, is obviously very vulnerable to losing all previous learning/hashkafa, etc. to the point of even losing his faith, R”L L”A.
As others have noted, it’s a result of Yiddish language infiltration into lashon haKodesh.
When speaking conversationally, it’s perfectly fine to speak Yiddish or any other language. But, when davening, Lashon haKodesh should be used without mixing in Yiddish into that pronunciation of Lashon haKodesh.
Someone pointed out that we have in this generation all the chesronos of the Dor haMabul, Dor haFlaga and Sedom. It’s both amazing and frightening that America could have taken such a drastic dive into sheker and toeiva as it has, especially recently.
(To his credit, President Trump brought back some decency to the country, but to no avail, as the current administration has dictated a total reversal of that and then worsening the same.)
The good news in all this is that we have a mesorah from Rav Chaim Volozhin that the last station in Galus for Torah is America. And since America (meaning the USA), as we knew it, seems to be fading into history, that means that Mashiach’s arrival must be imminent BB”A.
Avi K:
Nothing in your recent reply seems to have addressed the concern I raised above regarding children potentially learning improper hashkafos.It’s very possible that even an “Orthodox” Jew – especially one who spends his time on areas of *thought* that are outside of Torah – might have an improper hashkafa.
Therefore, you should not have your children (and possibly even yourself) listen to them because the children might absorb an improper hashkafa, and that could cause real spiritual damage R”L L”A.
I know this all sounds foreign to anyone who was educated with the poison of “Modern Orthodoxy”, but, as you wrote, accept the truth from whomever says it.
The point that others made about the nivul peh on some of his shows is a very valid one as well.
Avi K:
I think you missed my point because, unfortunately, modern-day Haskala, known as “Modern Orthodoxy”, does not ascribe the proper value to Hashkafa (and also not to Halacha, for that matter, but that’s a different point).I specifically mentioned “proper hashkafos”, as in “hashkafa”, not “halakha” (as it is spelled in your world).
Hashkafa literally means outlook which includes, of course, how you think. Listening to Mr. Shapiro’s shows will almost certainly influence how you think. As mentioned above, he is not daas Torah and, of course, does not claim to be.
Therefore, if once cares about their kids’ hashkafos, they might want to reconsider allowing them to listen to his shows, as I mentioned.
n0mesorah:
Actually communism, with the atheism that comes with it, is much more of an Avoda Zara than any other political stance.That depends on how much you value your kids’ getting only proper hashkafos.
While Mr. Shapiro speaks very well against liberal insanity, he is, nonetheless, not “daas Torah”, so there is no guarantee that everything he says will be in accordance with Daas Torah.
Sam Klein:
True, but then you need to pay another $500 per month or more to pay that additional amount mortgaged and likely PMI, making the monthly payment on a typical house + tuitions for a typical frum middle class family even less affordable.CTRebbe:
I would venture to guess that some have parents or others helping them with their housing or they are otherwise living in sub-standard conditions, which therefore enables them to afford some “luxuries”.But it is not normal to need help from your parents, even when you are both working.
Regarding out-of-town, in most cases that means, maybe, as low as $300,000 instead of, say, $500,000, (figure $10,000 per year saved) and possible lower taxes (figure $5,000 per year saved), though usually higher tuitions would more than make up that ($15,000) difference.
Either way, it’s still insanely expensive. 40 years ago, salaries were not much lower than now, but house prices were less than just the down-payment is now. Meaning, say, $60,000 for a house, not $600,000. And taxes were also thousands less.
The bottom line is that unless someone else is paying the down-payment and perhaps even more than that, a middle-class typical frum family cannot afford to pay tuitions and buy a house in a typical frum area.
Of course there is a middle-class crisis.
No, just because many in the 5 Towns and elsewhere are either upper-class (Two salaries of at least $100K or the equivalent) and/or have help from relatives, that doesn’t address the middle class.
Take typical salaries of today and typical house prices and real estate taxes of today, and compare the those to the same 10, 20, 30 and 40 years ago.
House prices used to be far, far, lower, while typical salaries have basically stayed the same over that period.
House prices in frum areas are typically $500K or more, with Real Estate Taxes at around $10K per year or more. If you live in NYC, the RE Taxes are lower but you likely more than make up for that with your City income tax.
For a 500K house, that means you need $100K just for the down payment. Even if you could somehow cover that (rich in-laws/uncle/whatever), that still leaves about $400K to mortgage, or about $3,000 per month including Real Estate taxes but before utilities, maintenance, repairs, etc.
Figure $50K per year total, after tax, just for the house. That’s already one “normal” salary (again, after tax).
Now add tuitions, even with breaks, and you’re looking at another $20,000-$30,000 or more, depending on the schools and number of kids.
So you need about $80,000 AFTER tax for just the house and tuitions. That’s without the car or cars, food and clothing, not to mention camp (as in day camp, never mind sleep-away).
And if both parents are working, then you likely need babysitting, which is another large expense (and also a big problem because in many cases those babysitters are not Jews, so that means the kids are effectively being raised, to a large degree, by a non-Jew).
Yes, this is insane.
@se2015
I want to understand this liberal “logic”.
A woman has a “right to choose” to murder her unborn/partially born infant. But that same woman (or man) cannot choose to forgo a vaccine?OP:
Presumably, the OP is referring to conspiracy theories, which I have not read, so I can’t comment on those theories.My question is, though, whatever those theories may claim, what does that have anything to do with Hashem running the world?
In other words, what the gentiles do or don’t intend to do is one discussion. LiHavdil, that Hashem runs the world and allows only what He sees fit to allow, is a separate matter.
Rabbi Yaakov Shapiro has a nice shiur on this topic:
if I understood correctly, the answer is that this way we could earn MORE reward. Otherwise, everyone would just be the same…It’s not “we”; these Israeli girls are naive, and not necessarily coordinating with their parents.
akuperma:
Secular colleges also have mixing of genders (an issue not only during online classes but perhaps for group projects and the like), the horrific modern culture which pervades them including some of the courses, which they might require, that are anti-Torah to the core, and more real problems.The pritzus issue alone, even in a virtual classroom, is enough reason to avoid secular colleges.
That’s besides for “minor” issues, like classes or exams scheduled on Shabbos/Yom Tov, etc.
This question seems odd. Of course American Jews, like all Jews, care about E”Y. It is Hashem’s holy land, and we daven at least three times each day that Hashem send Mashiach and return us all there BB”A.
But none of the discussion here has anything to do with Eretz Yisrael.
If the question was do we care about our brethren in E”Y, then the answer to that is, of course we do, just like we care about our brethren in France, China or anywhere else.
If the question is “Do American Jews care about [international relationships with] the Zionist State of Israel?” then that is an entirely different question.
The answer to that the question is:
1. The question is really irrelevant because this country has a strategic interest that Israel maintain its QME, or Qualitative Military Edge. It has nothing to do with Jews, antisemitism, and the like but rather plain strategic interest. So our elections are largely irrelevant to the State of Israel.
2. We (those who do not worship at the idolatrous altar of Zionism) recognize that Zionism and its State have always been an enormous liability and cause of suffering to the Jewish people. So, we have zero interest in the Zionist regime (the State of Israel) that has invaded large portions of E”Y over a century ago and that has shmaded our brethren there and world-wide. We care only about our brethren (Jews) world-wide.My prior posts in response haven’t been approved.
I
l’ll try again.The איסור להתגרות באומות העולם is just as in force as it always has been since the start of galus.
However, if we look to both Chanukah and Purim, we see an interesting difference, which Rabbi Yaakov Shapiro points out in various media.
On Chanukah, we used the tools of Esav against the misyavnim and yevanim, because the latter groups’ target was the Torah, not us, so we had to defend the Torah by even resorting to Esav’s tools when needed.
By contrast, on Purim, we used our tools to annul the gezeira, namely Tefillah and Teshuva, because the target then was “only” us, not the Torah, so using Esav’s tools would not have worked there. Obviously, the story continues from there, but that’s besides the point.
Same with the Zionists (Esav’s tools have still not achieved the Zionists even a single day of peace in its bloody existence).
This particular words of this (not very “well known”) “community activist” are not indicative of the rest of Klal Yisrael. However, it is a chutzpah and rishus for the authorities to close down the shuls (10 people only no matter what is the building size?), especially at this point.
@daniela:
Surely you know that those two situations are not even remotely comparable.