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Calm down, all of you. It’s only 6 pm. They’re sitting drinking hot cocoa waiting for me to go to sleep.
Yes, agreed, that is a bit of a problem for those of you hoping to drive home from work before midnight. I’ll try to turn in early tonight, as a public service.
I don’t know what a mamin means by “not just a Rav.” Ask the Rav you normally consult with.. This is a matter that many people do take seriously, but not everyone will give the same psak. If you are told that it is all right to go ahead, make sure the other party is also comfortable with the issue. (Presumably they’ll wish to speak to their own Rav.)
Thank you for bringing this painful topic to people’s attention.
Tragically, I am all too familiar with what you described.
It is extremely important to make people aware of this.
OK, sof davar hakol nishma, whether or not we think that oomis is old (probably not, if 50 is the new 20), old-fashioned (I didn’t think so, but maybe others did), or just caring and smart and definitely in the running for CR Voice of Authority on Childcare (I”ll vote for that 1), I think we can let her have the last word here.
Oomis-
You’re wondering where the snowplows were?
On my block.
Beginning just after midnight.
And returning every time I dozed off.
And if you’re looking for the meter maids, just follow my car.
Moral refers to a sense of right and wrong as perceived by humans, and dictated by human intellect. As such, morals are different in different societies and in different historic periods. The Torah, the word of HKBH, is eternal. It is not bound in any way by place or time, or by the limitations of human judgment. The two cannot be compared.
Anybody ever try the steak house off 13th Ave BP?
I heard it’s expensive and just changed name and /or staff.
Worth a trip?
Syag, I agree with you on the subject of Jewish authors.
As for books I like to read, most are not Jewish books so perhaps I should leave it at that.
For a Jewish author whose books are moving, well-written, and not typical, try Haim Sabato.
I have higher expectations from Jewish books, and don’t approve when Jewish authors fictionalize and dramatize events in our history that should not be trivialized. For a Holocaust narrative that won’t offend, try “Someday We’ll be Free”. The author is Sanik.
Gross.
Hi Syag.
Glad you did not disappear.
No, I didn’t know that. (What made you think it was obvious?)
Guilty as charged though, of skimming without reading comprehension.
I like threads about books and they don’t appear as often as, for example, threads about shidduchim or food.
I noticed your post and as I wanted to come back to it and figure out what was going on, your post was gone!
Much ado about nothing, I guess, as a non-Jewish writer once said.
Syag, what happened to your comment?
Disappeared into thin air…
Hope you haven’t disappeared, Syag.
Once again, I emphatically agree with oomis. Not sure I’d be that gentle with little Froggie. Lil F, do you also believe in live and let live when your house is broken into or your purse is snatched? How about when it’s your neighbor’s house or purse? How about when shells are raining down on on Sderot? Infant safety is serious business, and parents should be happy to receive guidance when their babies’ well being is at stake.
I’m not sure I agree that oomis is old-fashioned. I consider myself greatly blessed that the parents of my grandchildren do as much as they can keeping their little ones safe, and emotionally, spiritually, physically and nutritionally taken care of. Their methods may not be exactly the same as mine, but the love and caring are there in abundance. And they’re all quite young.
Popa , your sense of humor is one of the best things about the CR.
But this is not funny.
Akuperma is right. The starvation in Africa is often due to ugly violent politics, not lack of food.
DY is also right. You’re making a point about mothers trying to get their kids to eat. (I might add that neither I, nor any of the many mothers I know, some older and younger than me, ever do that.)
But starving children are a sad serious matter. And as we believe that “hakol bishvil Yisrael…” we should take it to heart and not make leitzanus of it.
And in this case, I know I’m right too.
Thanks, oomis.
I was also unhappy at the thought of putting a baby in such an unsafe position.
I was not successful in getting the message across in my post.
But your post makes it perfectly clear.
No surprise there, as your subtitle is obviously not just a figment of someone’s imagination.
You probably didn’t do a half bad job as a Mommy (Ima?) either.
Hodula, I think we sometimes move in the same circles.
“Their knees covered only because their shaitels are longer than their skirts…”
That is a great observation.
You should start a new thread on that topic.
You already know I’m not into the whole “elite yiddishkeit” discussion. But an “elite sheitel” discussion might be in order.
Letting a baby cry at the supermarket?-
Could happen, depends on the circumstances, not the end of the world.
Some babies hate to shop even more than my husband and are not shy about (loudly) expressing their disapproval.
Leaving a baby laying in the top part of the shopping cart?-
Very very bad idea.
Not safe.
With nosh on top of her?-
Worse idea.
Neglectful, is the kindest thing I can think of saying.
What would I say?-
Maybe something like, “Excuse me, do you think that’s safe?”
And I would probably get a shrug or a dirty look in return.
Unless the mother was in middle of texting, in which case I’d just be ignored.
Sorry, but I’m just not getting this whole conversation. What is “elite of yiddishkeit”?? I think this is a concept that must have been borrowed from secular culture.
There most definitely are different categories of people in Klal Yisrael. A Kohen is not the same as a Levi. A man is not the same as a woman. A boy under 13 years of age is not the same as a 40 year old man. Etc. But what is “elite”? Each of us is granted a different Neshama with different kishronos, and life experiences tailor made for the advancement and fulfillment of that Neshama. A young lady looking for a life’s partner must have the maturity to do a cheshbon hanefesh and determine what lifestyle is best suited to her aspirations and capabilities. Within that category- learning boy, working boy, or other type of boy, she should look for someone that she finds compatible. Yes, seeing the chashivus of Torah is of paramount importance in a Jewish home. But there are different paths to achieving that goal.
HKB”H is the only One who can bestow upon someone the title of “Elite.”
Which may be the reason for “Olam hafuch ra’isi.”
Zdad, someone else too, actually.
Must admit, doesn’t happen too often.
And it’s not even a full moon (yet).
Solid thinking, FriendinF.
But your criteria will not help me to decide when to call the wife of such, “Rebbetzin.”
Advice appreciated.
DaasY, I stand corrected.
So right miritch!
Thank you, downandin, for the wonderful post!
May you continue to see much Hatzlacha and to have great stories to share with us!
The only comment on this thread that didn’t turn my stomach was from oomis.
Nebach. Horrible.
Halachic discussions don’t apply in this case.
And for the rest of you, please keep in mind that behind all the discussion, there’s a tragedy.
In last week’s parsha we learned,
Chaval al d’avdin …
So I’m wondering why that’s not part of the title of this thread.
You know what FriendinF-
Let’s bash YU!
Let’s also bash Mir, Chaim Berlin, Novardok, Shor Yashuv & Waterbury!
Oh, and let’s not forget Ateret Torah!
Also any boy who’s under 6′, any boy who doesn’t go to Deli 52 Thursday night, any boy who once might have accidentally worn mismatched socks, and any guy who once left his hat in the back seat of his car when he ran in to Mincha!
Now we made our very own shidduch crisis!
Right here in the CR!
Easy, wasn’t it?
All I can say, HaLeivi, is- Uh oh.
Really not sure you”ll have success with any of the suggestions you got, but I guess it can’t hurt to try.
Sorry to admit it but your post gave me my CR smile of the day…
Picturing a little guy with sad eyes and a messy ponytail sitting dejectedly in the naughty corner having some time out, wondering why nobody appreciates his artistic accomplishments.
Great job, Mod.
For the most part, froggie, people here are quite civil.
This is really true? Only BMG will do for a serius learner?
Can’t tell if you’re all kidding around? Or stating this as fact?
I’m not going to name names but there actually are other yeshivas out there. They’re all full of batlanim?
And gavra, that last sentence of yours about the search for “prestigious” chassanim says a lot about the current reality of shidduchim. (Open to debate whether we want to call it a crisis.) Unlikely that your point will be addressed seriously by anyone. Not the girls. Not the shadchanim. Not the askanim. Not the girls’ mothers.
The only really good shidduchim thread round here was the “InShidduchim…” with that cliffhanger mystery running through it. I’m still waiting for the posters to take pity on the rest of us and tell us WHAT HAPPENS AT THE END.
Nili,an acronym for the passuk from Shmuel, “Netzach Yisreal lo yishaker,” was originally the name (and password) of a spy organization that operated in Israel during WWI. It was led by members of the Aaronson family,who immigrated to Palestine from Romania, including Aron, his sister Sarah, some other Aronson siblings (not sure) and Avshalom Feinberg. Interestingly they were helping the British (who were our enemies when the Irgun & Lechi fought against them during British occupation later in the 20th century) under General Allenby fight against the Turks. I don’t know which one of them chose the name Nili, as above, for their group. The story is a very sad one, and they all died under tragic circumstances. Aron is the only one that was not definitely murdered by enemies. He died in a plane crash over the English Channel that may have been orchestrated by the British. (I know, the British were supposed to be his friends, but it’s a long sad story.) The Aronson home in Zichron Yakov has been preserved as a museum, and is an interesting place to visit. (Yes, I was there. Very interesting, but more sad than enjoyable.)
How the name of the spy organization became a popular Hebrew girl’s name, I don’t know.
Jbald, I guess the answer to your question is- sometimes. There are caring Rabbayim out there who will stay in contact. My favorite story was of a 9th grade Rebbi who had a student who was asked not to return for 10th. (And yes, the hanhala was involved in finding him a more suitable place.) The Rebbi gave his student his whole collection of old hard cover Hardy Boy books that he had from when he was young as a parting gift and to maintain a friendship.
Like your answer, L Froggie
“It is true that we all pray and wait for the return to Zion.”
Did I write that? Yes.
Did you read that, oomis? Presumably not.
Guess we”ll leave it at that.
And thanks, Sam2. I have to admit, the writings of the Gra are (more than) a bit beyond me, so the info is appreciated.
HaLeivi, there’s a lot of “Shticky” stuff in Hebrew. How about the fact that oxygen, the element that causes fermentation and turns your dough into Chametz, is Chamtzan?
Once again, oomis, you’re missing my point.
Reread my post.
I don’t think you”ll find any indication there that I don’t accept and value all Jews. To paraphrase a little, some of my best friends are reform Jews!
But that doesn’t mean that I am. And that doesn’t mean that I (Ch”V) think that chillul Shabbos, or kefirah, or some of the other values they espouse, are now ok.
People far far greater, more pious and more learned than me, including Rav Yosef Chaim Sonnenfeld, said that Ben Yehuda would receive s’char for reviving the use of Lashon Kodesh, while at the same time rejecting many aspects of modern Hebrew, and of course rejecting his blasphemous values.
I was taking issue with your suggestion that “we’re all Zionists.” We’re not all Zionists, Conservative, Reform or Reconstructionist. Similarly (but L’havdil) we’re not ALL Satmar, Chabad, MO, BMG, Breslov or Belz. But we are all part of one nation that stood at Har Sinai.
We must all find it in our hearts to reach out to each other with compassion, while at the same time maintaining uppermost in our minds our unwavering loyalty to the One Who put us all here on this planet together, and to the Torah that He entrusted to us.
And just by the way, what are strishkes ?
Impressed.
Not here to offer advice- I know it’s not easy to avoid the bakery, and the smell of those meat knishes just makes your mouth water…
Just here to give you a major round of applause for starting out on a tough, great journey!
May the road be a smooth one, downhill all the way!
Hmmm…
Now that I posted, i notice that HaKatan got himself edited in explaining the same topic I tried to take a stab at.
Mods, you state that you edited him for the sake of peace.
Would you consider peace, or Shalom, to have a component of shleimus? In which case I was only trying to offer, insofar as I am able, a more complete understanding of the topic at hand. And a more complete awareness of the issues discussed can only increase Shalom, correct?
you are misunderstanding the edit
Oomis, your research on the word “chashmal” yielded interesting and factual results, but I think you missed the point. You note that chashmal “seems to be stemming from Tanach.” That is correct; that is also the source of the problem.
The word chashmal does indeed appear in Sefer Yechezkel, most notably in the Navi’s description of Ma’aseh Merkava. (This word does not appear anywhere in Tanach outside of sefer Yechezkel. Corrections welcome.) Ma’aseh Merkava is a part of the Torah that it is forbidden to study in depth as the concepts are part of Toras Hanistar and not accessible to ordinary (even very learned) people. This fact (that Ma’aseh Merkava is part of Toras Hanistar and not accessible to all) is mentioned in the Gemara, the Rambam, and other sources. (I’m not sure what makes you think Ma’aseh Merkava correlates with natural science, and at any rate it’s not an idea we should be discussing.) Using a word from Maaseh Merkava to describe a natural phenomenon- electricity, denigrates and corrupts the meaning of the holy pesukim in Yechezkel that use the word. Ben Yehuda, a maskil, faced much opposition from Rabbonim in introducing modern Hebrew. This is just one example of what aroused their wrath.
As for your specious argument that we are all Zionists-
It is true that we all pray and wait for the return to Zion. But Zion is another word that was expropriated by maskilim. Zionism describes a movement founded by Theodor Herzl at the First Zionist Congress in Basel in 1897. I cannot speak for all of us, but I certainly do not feel that I’m connected to that movement, and I suspect there are many others here who feel as I do.
Get a job teaching English in the chassidish yeshiva of your choice.
The kids won’t pick up much English (so your ability to write or speak clearly is irrelevant), but you”ll definitely learn a lot from them.
I’m not sure it’s correct for members to be deciding whether a minhag sounds good to them, or makes sense to them, or is logical, or seems illogical etc. A minhag was definitely established not to learn Torah on certain nights that coincide with non-Jewish events. Whether or not we understand that, or approve of it, is not for us to decide. You probably already know whether your kehilla observes this minhag or not. If you’re in Yeshiva, or attend a shiur, your Rosh Yeshiva or Rav has decided for you. (In the case of this particular minhag it seems clear that there’s a reason it was often not recorded in written responsa.)
I find it similarly inane when Pesach comes and people put forth vapid arguments on why refraining from eating gebrochtz is or is not a sensible minhag. It’s really not for us to decide how much sense it makes. And if we were privileged to sit at the seder with our parents (or husbands, if we’re married ladies) then we already know what we have to do.
I’m just wondering if anyone knows the source for the fact that the Hebrew date for the birth of this person who brought such darkness to the world is 9 Teves, one day before the fast of Asara B’Teves.
Sure Syag! Why not?
And while I am nowhere near knowledgeable enough to disagree with Rabbi Krohn, I do know that there are those who pasken otherwise. Naming children is a subject taken seriously in our world, and I have also heard different opinions from Rabbonim regarding naming after people who died in the Holocaust.
Forget it Mammele! (Btw, I like your name!)
We can have a (virtual) coffee together if you like, outside the Coffee Room, but if you continue to express your views here you will be persona non grata, and that’s just the sad reality.
I understand you totally, explaining that you can find all the Yiddish names you love by “p’sukim l”shmos nashim” listed to be said at the end of Shmone Esrei. But apparently nobody else does. Yiddish is a language that kept us distinct from goyim in galus, and became a holy part of “shelo shinu ess lishonam,”- a holy part of our being “metzuyanim” in this long dark galus, which was part of what led to our redemption in Mitzrayim. English does not keep us separate or distinct in any way. Au contraire, it strengthens our bond with foreign culture and society in a way that is perfectly clear to anyone looking. So, no, Mark, is not just as good as Mendel. And to LAB, I don’t feel comfortable naming families, but is “Ettil” a Biblical name?
But my agreeing with you, Mammele, does not make your views acceptable or more palatable to others around here. So from now on I”ll just call you Ima. And you may address me by my own name which is, thankfully, English.
Of course, chcham. My daughter-in-law’s cousin’s niece, Elisheva Genendel W (the W is to try to maintain privacy) just named her twins Lechoira & Lemaaseh (lech & lemm for short, they’re so cute). She’s hoping she won’t have such a hard time getting them into a top Cheder in Lakewood. Her older twins, Sarah & Bayla are still on a list. But should be accepted any day now. (They just turned 11.)
We can always count on Popa to find the silver lining in every cloud!
Gamanit’s answer stands as it is. Hashem is, as DaasY first pointed out, l’maalah min hazman, above time and not bound by any concept of time. As time bound humans our understanding of this fact is incomplete, if not completely nonexistent.
I agree with AnIsYid that the only real answer, as the Navi tells us, is that we are incapable of understanding the “thoughts” of Hashem.
Understanding and believing that there are some things we have to accept without having been granted the capacity to fully understand them on a cerebral level in Olam Hazeh, is an important part of Emunah.
I have to say, there’s a refreshing, oxymoronic tone to “Shachris at the Venetian.”
If there’s a Rebbe in attendance, I’m sure he could do a great job on extracting the nitztzos d’kedusha in Vegas.
Thanks amb!
HaKatan, what you said about Sephardic Jews is not correct. Sephardim did not continue to use Lashon Kodesh names, as you stated. Have you ever come across older Sephardic ladies named Estrella, Mercedes, Marcella, Farha or Messody? Or men named Machlouf or Masud? Sephardim often adopted Arabic or Spanish names. The new generation of Sephardim, similar to Ashkenazim now changing Hershel to Tzvi and Raizel to Shoshana, are using Hebrew (and sometimes English) variations of those names for their children.
Are their any Sephardim who want to add (or correct) names to my list?
Bump
WIY- LOL.
This wagon was headed to the wrong kretchma.
I seem to notice we’re actually heading there together in the snow!
Better be careful before our horse (Which CR member wants to play the part of the horse?) lands in the ditch.
(I guess we already know which CR member wants to be the poritz and which one is the Rebbe.)
Hello charlieh.
I’m very sober.
Did you bother reading my post at all?
Seems not.
I read yours.
So Dr H Verwoerd was also a hater of my people.
There’s nothing unusual or surprising about that. He can join the illustrious, or, if you prefer, infamous, list of Jew haters among the goyim throughout history.
There’s nothing there that negates one word I wrote about Mandela.
Am I a racist for pointing this out?
If a person of color supports the murderer of my loved ones, am I a racist for thinking he is evil?
If a white person called Arafat an outstanding freedom fighter, would it then be ok to call that person a rasha?