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Hello to you too, takahm!
I’m having a hard time believing you seriously got insulted.
But in case you really are serious about feeling hurt by a comment I made, you have my sincere apology on a silver platter. From the heart.
Not sure how you can feel personally insulted, though. If I had (Heaven forbid) remarked unfavorably on the intelligence, charm, middos, or other attributes of your offspring, then perhaps you might feel hurt. As we all know, we are in partnership in raising our children, and may feel slighted when others point out that we have not done a stellar job. But actually having daughters, sons, and any combination thereof is totally not in our hands. As the gemara teaches us, (the scholars of the CR will perhaps find the exact source for us) there are 3 keys that HKB”H entrusts to no one else- the keys of rain, childbirth, and Techiyas Hameisim (may it be soon in our days).
Every child that is entrusted to our care by HKB”H, Who in His unfathomable kindness allows us to partner with Him in the creation of a Jewish soul, is a gift beyond compare. And no human being may ever disparage such a gift, regardless of its gender or the color of its eyes.
Certainly takahm, you didn’t imagine that I was giving you the credit for actually having daughters, did you?
Chochom-ib, don’t feel bad. I also have this problem where my posts get taken too seriously. Don’t worry about it. You’re a comedian, for sure. I loved the part about “the boy found the most proper indiscreet manner…”
Guess nobody else noticed…
Not a very healthy, well-adjusted family resulted from that union, takahm.
Only daughters!
One married a poor tailor.
One ran away from home (to Siberia, of all places) with a communist.
One married a shaygetz.
And Tevye had to ask his wife of 25 years if she loved him!
They probably should have dated a little longer…
Interesting, PAA.
But personally, I find the CR a better place to discuss shidduch crises, other socioeconomic crises, pareve pots,and recipes.
Gilgulim is somewhat above my pay grade.
And probably, though they”ll pretend not, the same might go for a few other posters.
Mr Melamed, any person or shadchan who does not give any answer when the answer is no, is beyond not menchlich. Any person like that requires adjectives that it is not possible to post in the CR, or to even express privately less than 2 months before Yom Kippur. I would tell you though, that such a person is the lowest type of az panim, and we all know where an az panim ends up.
Addendum: I notice that in my long list of classifications I omitted an important one, MO.
A normal MO male or female would also not behave in the aforementioned inexcusable manner.
To all the great MO CR members, there was no intention to suggest that your community is more lacking in mentchlichkeit than, let’s say, the OTD or BT or tuna beigel or Frum From flatBush community.
Menchlichkeit is a rare commodity. Everywhere.
Lior, I don’t think so.
The yeshivish community is generally much stricter with the guys than with the girls. (For reference you can read the numerous threads here that excoriate the guys for not continuing to date a girl they find unattractive, but then patiently explain to us, as if we were mentally deficient, that of course we cannot expect a girl to marry someone she is not attracted to.) In this case though, the “rules” seem pretty equal. If we’re talking about someone very, very yeshivish, then the dating won’t go to ten dates. Your average yeshivish guy or girl knows that it’s completely inexcusable to break it off at such a late date, by texting or talking to a shadchan. But mentchlichkeit (aka consideration to others and general courtesy) is hard to come by these days. A normal yeshivish or OOT or FFB or BT or OTD or Heimish or tuna beigel or any-label-you-can-come-up-with male or female will not do this.
Will the general public be kinder to the sweet, sensitive girl who does this and not vilify her as harshly as a guy? Wouldn’t surprise me.
Yentac, are you kidding? Or you mean that literally?
Call your rav, you say!?
Each and every one of these esteemed CR posters IS a Rav.
In fact, one of them might just be YOUR Rav.
The one you call to find out if your pot is pareve…
My sister-in-law’s neighbor’s niece went to a Gadol in Bne Brak for a bracha. He says it’s because of the lack of tznius and because people are using colored tablecloths in their sukkahs.
I’m having a hard time following the logic (or illogic?) of all the shidduch threads.
Let me clarify the main points and make sure there’s no problem with my reading comprehension:
1) We live in a horrible world where guys think they have a right to turn down a girl because of the way she looks.
2) We must realize that a girl needs to be attracted to a guy before she can consider marrying him.
Ok. I think we’re finally ready to solve the crisis.
All tall, very good-looking guys with sparkling personalities are hereby exempt from the freezer.
All guys under 5’9″ who do not meet the above criteria, please do us all a favor and stay there.
Impressed, DY.
At last, someone wise enough to distill the essence of all these posts and get to the bottom line.
How all of this will help anyone get closer to standing under the chuppah, I can’t say I know.
Do you?
My turn, thank you for trying to bring some balance to this conversation. An objective observer skimming through it will notice that girls are allowed to choose a partner that they like. They may reject boys for being dull, lacking a sense of humor etc, until they find what they consider a “true personality match.” Those same girls despair and find the whole world corrupt and intolerable when they are rejected by boys. Perhaps you can make an argument that girls are more attracted to guys who are great conversationalists with an amazing sense of humor, while guys are more into appearance. And if you want to say that this is not human nature, but rather a result of men being deeply flawed, then go ahead. I’m not sure I”ll join you though.
Anecdotal evidence cannot be used to draw definite conclusions. But I would like to end with something I was told when I turned to a seasoned shadchan with many years experience (and many successes) for advice. I was finding it frustrating that I was not successful in trying to set up a date. I initially took to heart the whole shidduch crisis uproar and tried to set up a few shidduchim between people I knew. And my rejections were coming from the girls! Was I doing something wrong? The shadchan told me that was all part of the hard work that goes into shidduchim, and admitted that she often has a much harder time from the girls than from the guys!
A lot can be said for the revolutionary idea that everyone, both male and female, approach shidduchim with kindness, consideration, and menchlichkeit. And many people do. Which can B”H be attested to by the wedding invitations that fall into our mailboxes with great frequency, and the lack of space in our kindergartens.
Y doe, are you telling me it’s time to pack my bags (and my keyboard) and leave the coffeeroom??
– I have never attended a simcha at the Waldorf.
– I don’t know the address of the Waldorf.
(I can google it but seems that doesn’t count.)
I didn’t realize what a classy bunch hang out here. I’m guessing the coffee isn’t instant either…
Liveright, if you’re writing truth, not fiction, even if you have a targeted message, there’s no need to “over magnify and exaggerate”. In light of what’s going on these days, you’re sounding disturbingly similar to some of our friends at CNN, Sky News, BBC and al jazeera.
And even if fiction is more your style, there’s no need to get maudlin and sink into melodrama.
Yes, writing can be a powerful medium of expression. It can also be foolish, vapid and deceitful. Like that other famous medium of expression- speech, best always to use it responsibly, carefully and truthfully.
Streekg, your friend made it perfectly clear that she’s sad and has been rejected. And I truly do feel sorry for her. The question, for all of us when faced with adversity, including your friend, is what we do with our lives and ourselves as the years pass and we still face the same challenge (or nisayon, if you prefer).
It’s disturbing to see your friend wallowing in self-pity, lashing out and accusing others, and wishing misfortune on others. It’s disturbing to see her paint others with a broad brush until she rails against, not just all mothers-in-law, but the whole world (this world’s corrupt, this world’s messed up…).
We live in a beautiful world. There are many fine, kind, generous people sharing this earth with us. We need to train ourselves to see the good in others.
(I’d love to introduce your friend to the last paragraph of the Tefillah Kodem ha’Tefillah written by Rav Elimelech mi’Lizhensk. It begins with- “Aderaba, ten bilibeinu…” Try to find it for her in a Siddur; it’s found in some chassidish/ Sfard siddurim before Shachris. Avraham Fried made a beautiful song out of it, maybe you”ll find it on one of his old CD’s. (In brief – we beg HKB”H to help us see the good in others, to speak to others properly, not chas veshalom to feel or arouse any hatred towards another person, and through this to strengthen our bond with HKB”H.)
I’ve seen people go through many great hardships in life. Sometimes involving finding their zivug, and sometimes HKB”H chooses to send other nisyonos. The people I admire most, and would wish the most to be like, are the ones I see who remain steadfast. Steadfast in their Emunah, in their love of life, in their positive attitude, in their ability to smile and say a kind word to someone else while inside their own heart is broken, in their kindness to others who may seem to be more fortunate than them, in their ability to join in the simcha of others when there is so much sadness in their own lives.
Your friend also shows an astonishing level of egotistic self-glorification when she predicts that in the next generation hers will be the only children with good middos. What??!
I wish your friend Hatzlacha and a happy marriage soon. But, in my humble opinion, she needs to do a small bit of work on her own Middos before she is fit to be an akeres bayis in a solid Jewish home.
Mazel Tov, oomis, on the upcoming simcha!
I have received invitations without printed directions to the hall.
I don’t remember ever getting an invite with no address for the hall.
Maybe I’m not getting invited to the fancy weddings.
(Funny, because I’ve really enjoyed the simchas I’ve attended.)
I want to join the other posters who congratulate you on solving the problem creatively, efficiently, and best of all, without causing any hurt feelings or unpleasantness. Kol HaKavod!!!
Haifag, read the first sentence of the story that you read. Carefully. I heard (1) from friend (2) from wife (3) of man (4). By the time you read it, what is this? Would you say a sixth-hand, unverifiable story? These reports always have similar configurations.
I respond because I find these stories very harmful. Especially to young children, but often even to adults, who are crushed, and tragically may even falter in their Emunah, when the fantastical predictions do not occur as predicted.
It is our duty to await Mashiach “b’chol yom she’yavo.” That’s every single day. Irregardless (I put that word in specially for you, haifag) of the latest fifth- sixth- or even second-hand story du jour. We must leave the cheshbonos and nistaros to the One who is looking after us as we make our way through this long, painful galus, undespairing, and praying to Him for our redemption.
Squeak, your comment was right on the mark. Sad, but true. For sure.
But I’m here to agree with RebYid.
Let’s blame this whole crisis thing on the mothers-in-law. Then let’s take all the mothers-in-law, actual, future & potential, and ship them off (with adequate supplies of food & water of course) to a remote, uninhabited island in the Bering Strait. Or the Antarctic, where they shot those penguin films. Somewhere where they can’t get near a cell tower so they’re forced to cease and desist from their endless meddling.
Then let’s sit back and watch all our shidduch problems disappear.
Goq, are you sure that’s a reality show and not a horror movie?
Shame on you popa_b !
After all the trouble DY went through to respond to your post!
And in spite of the amazingly excellent responses he provided!
Don’t tell me you took that other thread to heart and are now busy trying to be ready in time for early Shabbos…
No, DY.
Don’t bother.
If you take the time to scroll through this thread, you”ll notice that nobody here is paying attention to, or interested in, what anybody else has to say.
I think they look very comfortable.
Personally, I’d much rather wear a straw hat on a hot summer day.
But I wear a sheitel.
Which is a whole different story.
(And not particularly comfortable either.)
Dial4, I am not on a farm.
I’m pretty sure straw hats are made of straw or hemp (a fiber similar to linen).
Was your father a magician? Did he wear a top hat? I think top hats are silk.
Gee thanks, DY.
Very true, DY.
In that case how do we objectively decide whether or not our shidduch system needs fixing?
How do we conclude that our generation faces a unique shidduch crisis?
If we want to come to that conclusion on the basis of seeing older singles in our community, we still can’t say that this is a function of our own system’s inadequacy.
I remember older singles who were frequent guests at my parents’ Shabbos table, and that was a very long time ago. (I may not be the most ancient poster here, but I’m definitely in the running.) I also remember my parents telling me about older singles they knew when they were growing up, and that was in a time and place with a whole different set of rules.
Can we say that shidduchim are, and have always been, kasheh k’krias Yam Suf?
Tzad, I thought so too!
I was sure we’d be having a discussion on the permissibility and advisability of men wearing straw hats to shul on the sweltering hot days of summer in the heavily frum NE US.
Instead I get a thread on one of my least favorite topics…
The CR might just not be the place for the fashionably inclined among us.
Baruch10, you win the prize!
Yours was the MOST nonsensical post I have ever read in the CR.
Please note:
If you’re here for the laughs, your fellow CR patrons appreciate a good laugh as much as the next person; find your way to the joke thread.
Unfortunately, I can’t offer a great idea for an easy way to solve the difficulties in finding one’s true zivug. For some people it does become a drawn out, sometimes unpleasant process. So before I sign off, I want to wish all the single posters here (I’m guessing there are a few on this thread) a quick answer to their prayers and a short easy trip to their bayis ne’eman!
Many thanks, DY, for putting a problem I have struggled with into proper perspective.
Apparently, unbeknownst to me, I have great kissufah dibirchasa.
(I”ll have to make sure my biographer gets the spelling right.)
What’s the feminine version of a Gadol?
Yes, Goq, I heard from a reputable source there is going to be an Asifa about that.
See you all there.
There are many things I would like to write about the NYT.
But based on past experience, the mildest expressions of disgust will be deleted by the mods.
And mild expressions are not even what I had in mind in this instance.
So that’s about all I can say to you, coffeeaddd…
Nobody knows any nice places to go in the Catskills?
Or, was everybody so busy picnicking in all these nice secluded spots, listening to the babbling brooks and gushing falls while the kids hopped around looking for frogs, that they couldn’t be bothered to tell HaLeiV which dirt road to drive up to join them???
oyoy, I love that word “relaxkite”.
I vote we immediately add it to the official CR Dictionary, 1st ed.
There’s nothing like the relaxkite at a warm, inviting, fragrant, Friday night seuda.
Having said that, it’s always a good idea, when you’ve invited guests who were not in your kitchen Friday afternoon for the requisite piece of fresh, hot potato kugel, to save the relaxkite for after Hamotzi. You don’t want to enjoy the beautiful Zemiros on the cheshbon of your famished guests.
Feeling a little confused, a little surprised, a little scared…
We have our own homegrown antisemites right here in the CR?
?
I wonder if there are any other women out there who sometimes prefer to daven on Shabbos in the comfort & privacy of their own home, at their own pace, when the other option is davening with a minyan that mysteriously decides to drag out some parts of the Tefillah interminably and then speeds through other parts as if they have the taliban on their tails.
Hi alwaysrwscissors!
An Achsanya- is correct.
Not- A Nachsanya.
Enjoy LA!
Business, in addition to seeing your therapist, it might be a good idea for you to get a recommendation for a good endocrinologist. It’s popular in our culture to look at people who are overweight as weak and having no self control. The problem is not always that they spend their days and nights stuffing their faces with burgers, fries, and chocolate chip cookies. You may have a physiological issue in addition to, or absent, a psychological issue. It’s possible that your body doesn’t regulate properly, or balance, the hormones that make you feel hungry or satisfied. When you restrict calories you get so terribly hungry that you end by bingeing.
Oomis, your post even made me a little sad, and I never had the privilege of knowing your grandmother. Where was she from? It always seems to me that that whole generation was made of different stuff than we have around today. I thoroughly enjoyed your description of your grandmother’s challah baking instructions. Even though you weren’t able to give me the exact recipe, I do want to thank you for sharing the beautiful memory.
Oomis, all talk of love (grandmotherly and other) aside, it’s possible your challah didn’t come out like your grandmother’s because your ovens were different.
Now, in return for that little tidbit, please post:
1) chocolate chip cookie recipe
2) challah recipe
Seems a mod actually honored me with a subtitle at some point in the recent past.
Seems thanks are in order.
Thanks Mr / Ms Mod!
You’re welcome.
Reby, methinks Mod meant “bated breath.”
Not catching mice with mozzarella here, are we Mod?
Fine B”H Goq, thanks for asking.
Haven’t seen coffee add round these parts in forever. But checked in to agree with his comment from ages ago. Yes adorable, (come to think of it, where has adorable gone?) guys don’t like analyzing things (usually). But here’s a message for all those analyzing ladies out there–
Analyze to your heart’s content all the things in your own life that you love to analyze. But leave your friends and neighbors alone. Don’t analyze every word they say and every move they make and every breath they take. Please.
End of rant.
Thank you.
This is interesting??
I still don’t quite understand the infantile behavior of many of our own snapping pictures and gawking at scenes of accidents. Do they need someone to explain to them that this is not an appropriate form of entertainment?
Maybe YWN can be the first to bravely refrain from posting photos of this nature and start a trend of more considerate, decent behavior in our community.
OURT, which options are endless? How do you expect the OP to get a degree as – OT, PT, PA, Dr, nurse, without studying (& getting well above passing grades) in science & math?
Totally feel as Goq did 6 months ago.
At what point will the Mods finally send this thread to the trash bucket?
And thanks to you too, HaL & midwest!
Thanks, DY!
DY, that was a very good he’ara.
I loved Yiddish Gems II, but the “Ich” song always irritated me and I used to skip over it. Aside from the repetitiveness, I just couldn’t get the Rebbe’s message.
Question: Is complete hisbatlus of the self required to the point that we expunge the “I” word from our vocabulary entirely??
Yes, DY, I’m asking you. But anyone else (Yiddish Gems fans and others) is welcome to reply as well.
True, keepcli.
Or, alternatively, be a horse.
Takkeh, DY, takkeh.
Nu nu…
Yes, positive, rationalf.