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Ok DY, I stand corrected.
I think some of the confusion here may have arisen from zdad being polite and using the phrase “doesn’t smell good” instead of coming right out and saying “it’s illegal.”
So the explanation of why it smells bad would be that to some people’s sensitive noses illegal activity has a bad smell.
RebY, you don’t need to worry about that.
The trolls on this site rank among the most well-fed, humongously fat trolls anyone has ever seen.
Seems I’ve contributed to their being overfed myself.
If anything, I have that on my conscience.
But just a little bit.
Sorry to join a long thread without reading all the posts above but I’m-
Confused.
Without a doubt, the chemicals in marijuana have health benefits.
What I don’t understand is-
Antibiotics, anticonvulsants, antihypertensives, beta-blockers, hypoglycemics- all of these (and many others) also have health benefits. Does the OU give kosher certification to any of these?
When Mrs Elderly Bubbie goes to Shmerel’s Pharmacy, does she ask for the heart meds with the OU? Does Mr Kollel Yungerman, shopping at Lakewood Drug Emporium, request the antibiotic with an OU for his three year old who has an ear infection?
What exactly was the OU trying to accomplish here?
MsPrincess,
You conveniently skipped right over my post, which is fine.
Not so fine- you skipped right over several others who stepped in with great advice. I think you may be new here, so please allow me to enlighten you: Mammele’s advice is always on the mark; always falls in the “Piha pascha b’chachma” category. Ignore her at your peril. As for write or wrong , I can’t even begin to imagine why you’d blithely overlook her wise counsel. There is no one else here with as much experience in the subject at hand, or who approaches the subject matter with that level of deliberation and care. TRUEBT and MDG have a lot to say that’s smart and to the point. And zahavasdad’s last post, while short, might open your eyes to an important consideration. (If you’d bother to read it, I guess I should add.)
So I’m back to the original point I tried to make: Find someone- a Rav, a Rebbetzin, a mechaneches, a parent or relative, an acquaintance you admire. Ask for their advice. I know it’s hard. Your brilliance and proficiency in all subject matters make it difficult to vanquish your own, well-deserved feeling of intellectual superiority. Never mind that. Get yourself some guidance.
Hatzlacha!
MsPrincess, I humbly defer to your academic expertise and erudition. However, there must be some person in your life (dare I suggest older person?) that you would consider consulting with before you embark on your mission. Surely you realize that we are not always best situated to recognize our own motivations in any given situation. The risk-benefit analysis might be more accurately provided by someone not directly involved. I realize how difficult it must be for someone so intelligent and learned to find an individual whose advice can be respected, but the search for such a person will certainly prove advantageous. (Trust me on that!)
Mammele, I’m a great fan of your posts. But in this case, you probably realize there’s no point wasting your breath (or keyboard). There’s a great quote, popularly attributed to Mark Twain but probably not actually written by him, about how dumb his father was when he was young… Are you familiar with it?
Greetings Mods!
You may wish to change the title of this thread to:
The Return of the Coffee Room
Technical20, the shidduch market is not a regulated market; no governing body has the authority to get involved and set prices. It’s also not value based; prices are not based on calculation of the actual cost of the service provided. You’re dealing with a free market where shadchanim take what the consumer is willing to give. I’m sure you’re familiar with supply and demand. Some people feel this system can be exploitative, and maybe it is. But so far it’s what we have. The choice of operating within the system or removing yourself from it, is yours.
I know you realize that ultimately your zivug doesn’t come from a human-based system anyway, although humans have been used for years, by The One orchestrating events, to facilitate the desired results.
Yes it is funny.
Ferragamo is not the only thing being misspelled round these parts.
It occurred to me after my post went up that perhaps I should have started with the difference between “are” and “our” (from the marvelous thread “Is all the kvetching are own fault?” – which makes me gag not kvetch) before I got involved with fancy leather belts.
Of course any poster with too much time on his hands can scour the archives and list all my own errors…
Forgive me. I am not posting to answer the OP’s question. I’m not sure what (or if) the shidduch crisis is, and I don’t pretend to know to whom to attribute this (hypothetical?) phenomenon.
I do wish to say that although the Italian shoemaker and designer is no longer among the living, it might be nice to spell his name correctly.
– Salvatore Ferragamo –
(I wonder if he would have been be gratified/ flattered/ insulted/ or most likely- indifferent- to find his belts acting the part of one of the subjects of this discussion.)
Joseph,
The word “No” was an answer to a question YOU asked, beginning with the words: “Can we assume that the active…”
You asked the question.
Which part of my one word answer did you have trouble understanding?
Joseph,
No
Am I to assume that all you proponents of polygamy have not considered (or are conveniently overlooking) the fact that a tzara is called a tzara?
In case anyone didn’t notice the date,
the Nittel thread is back up.
Ahhh…
The wonders and benefits of the coffee room are numerous.
You’re right, Wolf.
It should not be necessary.
But people enjoy it!
And who are we to deprive them of a little enjoyment?
…”fighting for our soles” indeed!
You won’t bring the MO back into the fold if you insult their intelligence with a piece like this.
Even if they’re not insulted, they’ll be laughing too hard to get back to the shtenders.
What you may actually have proven might be the need for a little derech eretz in the sense that RSR”H may have intended.
Wolf, this is theyeshivaworld!
What were you expecting?
Approval? Applause? Appreciation?
Neve Tzuf
No Hungarians here in the CR???
How’d we forget dessert?
K-raymesh
(tastes a lot better than it sounds)
I keep wondering at which point a gilgul of one of our Mods will finally remove this thread.
It seems like ages ago I suggested we should stick to shidduchim and recipes.
Because it was ages ago.
It’s one thing when we’re quoting Rishonim and Achronim and paskening shaylos here.
But seriously…
Too many kashas oif die maaises, if you ask me.
But who’s asking me?
I think no one…
Maybe not, writersoul.
Gluckel’s diary is one of those things I always wanted to read and never got around to.
Does she write about a shidduch crisis?
Maybe the way they arranged marriages back then was better!
Who knows?
Not me.
Where’s AZ?
“In die alte tzeiten.”
Other than that, flawless post.
You are welcome.
As for the OP, I’ve known him here in the CR for a while. I highly doubt he was suggesting that we shame anyone. What he may have had in mind, which is completely different, has to do with people themselves having a feeling of shame that will keep them from doing certain things.
After all, aren’t we all identified as being-
Rachmanim, BAYSHANIM, v’Gomlei Chasadim?
Yes, Joseph, I’m aware of what it says about matzdikei harabim. But these little children have no idea what they’re doing.
Are we careful to be mechanech them properly, to do it first without understanding, and then to continue as their cognizance grows?
Are we being mechanech them that they are obligated to be concerned with the welfare of others?
And might we do a better job of that by starting them out sharing and being kind with their own possessions?
Possession, or “MINE”, is something that even very little children understand. And sharing is a good way to start them on the path of being real ba’alei chesed.
I’m not sure what lesson they learn walking around with a pushka. Have you ever tried asking any of them, before you drop your spare change in, what they think will be done with the money? Try it. The results may surprise you. And may prove to you how far removed the endeavor is from any thought of helping anyone.
I’m here to agree with Goq.
And wonder what people think of the following-
Little kids (4-6-8 years old) don’t have much of an understanding of money or basic economics. But these same little ones are often sent out by their yeshiva or cheder with a pushka and/or raffles to collect tzedaka. Even the older ones know they’re going to win a prize, but don’t have much of an idea of altruism or Gemilas Chesed in their minds when they’re out collecting. They do get the idea, however, that asking other people for money is not just ok but praiseworthy (and you may even get a shiny new bike).
Are we raising little shnorrers?
Would we as a community be better off starting out by encouraging them to share their toys and be kind & considerate to others to set them on the right path of doing acts of Tzedaka and Chesed when they mature?
Are the results of DNA testing acceptable testimony l’halacha?
Meno, women have a chiyuv Tefillah. They don’t have the obligation to daven 3 tefillos b’zmanom like men. They do have an obligation to express shevach (praise), hoda’a (thankfulness) and bakasha (request). How they fulfill this obligation is something that not everybody agrees on. Some may consider a woman taking care of small children patur from all but the most minimal obligation, but she still has to daven daily. It would be wise for you, if you’re asking lma’aseh and not just out of curiousity, to learn the relevant Halachos.
I didn’t know phones have flashlights.
So imagine how startled I was when I accidentally (Don’t even think of asking how. You know I have no idea.) turned mine on.
My battery was almost gone by the time I figured out how to turn it off.
But this probably belongs on a different thread.
Unless we’re going to start davening for a return to simpler times when davening automatically meant siddur and flashlight meant, well, flashlight.
My apologies.
I don’t usually belabor the CR with such long posts.
Perhaps we can simplify as follows:
If you go out and when the other party gets a whiff then they think they’re at horse show, you won’t win any prize.
Hi Syag! I always enjoy reading your posts, so forgive me for daring to join in the fray-
I understood you were saying that meeting through suggestions of family members and friends is often more productive in the long term, and enjoyable in the short term. And I have to agree.
But I don’t know how Joseph knows that “most marriages come from non-professional rather than professional shadchanim”. Have we done a scientific study? Or are we working under the influence of gut feelings and anecdotal evidence? (If yes- bad idea.)
And I think what bothered DY, and admittedly myself as well, was your statement that it’s “just irritating to hear the odd implications that it’s ‘unyeshivish’ or invalid” to meet without a professional shadchan. Who ever implied or said out right or made mention of such an idea? Here in the CR or out in the real world?
In fact it’s common practice to have relatives or acquaintances redt a shidduch, even in very Chassidish or Yeshivish circles. (You may get a different response when the two parties meet on their own. And don’t get me wrong- I personally am not casting aspersions, slinging mud, or otherwise denigrating or belittling ANYBODY! Just saying it’s not common practice in some circles…)
I also wanted to (hesitantly, bem’chilas k’vodaich) comment on the wicked shadchan who suggested that a young lady color her grey hair. It’s not really a horse show. But there is (unfortunately? or realistically? please choose an adverb you find applicable) a similarity. At a horse show, part of the criteria involve the good looks of the horses. When a man and woman are deciding to spend their lives together, one of the criteria (that you cannot remove from the equation no matter how far in the sand you choose to bury your head) is the attraction they feel for each other based on how they look.
The determination of what lengths a person wishes to go to in the way they present themselves is different for each individual:
Wear make up? don’t want to? neatly pressed shirt tucked in? ketchup stains? high heels? polished shoes? designer silk? polyester? false eyelashes? nothing false whatsoever? You decide.
But if a brave and well-meaning shadchan, friend, or maybe even parent, tries to make a suggestion, please don’t be upset. And, as mentioned, the final decision of how to dress up (or dress down) is for the young man or woman to make on their own.
I am definitely NOT suggesting that people should choose whom to marry based solely on appearance. What I am suggesting is that it’s equally foolish to pretend that appearance doesn’t matter at all, or to refuse to put oneself forward in a pleasing manner, or to take offense when a suggestion is made in that area.
I would have been the top candidate to write how I would not daven from an electronic device.
Except that I got stuck once and was so happy to realize that I could find exactly what I needed to say on my little electronic device, in clear legible print.
What a disagreeable, quarrelsome, ornery thread I stumbled on.
I think a better question would be-
Who wears the pants in the Coffeeroom?
And who wishes they did?
Arad
SDD, what exactly are you suggesting?
If we “somehow outlaw older boys from marrying single girls” (your words) then are you suggesting-
-that they don’t marry at all?
-that they marry those who were previously married but no longer are?
-or what?
Don’t feel bad though… Your idea makes about as much sense as most of the other ideas on the subject.
CTL, I would not be offended in the least, but I don’t get offended easily so you can’t solve this from my opinion. You probably were hoping to do some sort of calculation based on the large number of replies you’d get from your fellow coffee room members, but for the most part they’ve ignored your post. My sympathies… I’ve been at the receiving end similarly. I liked Mammele’s suggestion a lot and am not sure why you remain fixated on two separate invitations. Letting the guests decide saves you from your wife getting upset at the possibility of offending someone. And do you really think some third cousin twice removed will drive all the way out to attend the Chuppah?
geordie6, the shmorg that CTL described is usually set up here in the US, for the guests to enjoy before the badeken. It can be very elaborate, featuring a vast array of hot and cold dishes and the requisite sushi, or simpler, with just some fruit and cake so the guests don’t starve (Jews are always very careful not to get too hungry) before the festivities begin.
“Torah-true” is trademarked by the Agudah?
Can you actually trademark that???
Never mind though; you gave me my good laugh of the day.
(The Jokes thread has been off the front page lately.)
And sholomrov, while you gave me a weak sort of a grin too, I suspect your story is not true. Was your reliable source, by any chance, a badchan?
I was waiting, though, for one of our resident anti-Z’s to point out that the Medinah’s Menorah has 7 branches. Could be they’re all still sleeping off last night’s tish, so I’ll wait a little longer…
BUMP
Umm al fahm
I might not totally disagree with you, flatbusher.
But a better rule might be that frum people should stay away from fraudulent activities.
I’m not sure I would equate politics with fraudulent activity.
But I can see why one might be inclined to do so.
um, yea, homealone, kinda figured you were…
But how about that Yerushalmi milkman?
No one else ever heard of him?
And while we’re discussing herring-
Does anybody remember the story of the tzadik nistar/milkman in Yerushalayim who dipped his hat in herring brine? What was his name? Is it a true story?
Bottom line, if it is true, it would seem a lot of ladies are not big fans of herring…
Homealone, that is an excellent question. I’m surprised nobody bothered to answer you.
Here are some questions for you-
Have you been on many dates? Did they go well? Did you go out of your way to make the experience pleasant for the person you were dating?
Just curious…
Oxford
London
Helsinki
Ofakim
Kiev
Marriage and having a spouse and children are all about giving and giving and putting their needs and wants ahead of your own. Which can, by the way, bring a lot of happiness into your life. If you’re thinking that your top priority / enjoyment is the freedom to do anything (within the boundaries of Halacha) and go anywhere (the same as above, presumably), then you might not be ready for a wife and kids just yet.
Sorry, son.
I see I posted my post after you already clarified your post.
Now we can both wait for Comlink to clarify his post.
Syag, somehow I just knew you were going to pull the gefilte fish out from the back of the fridge…
So by a show of hands,
Do CR members prefer discussing Zionism?
Or eating gefilte fish?
(or vehemently opposing people’s opinions about both?)