Rebbitzen Goldenpickanicerscreenname

Gogolhadar – “Rebitzen….your mindless arrogance to asset that you know “intuitively” all these universal truths regarding what is allowed or prohibited under your warped notion of Halacha could be equated to kefirah.”

Those who comfortably reside in a fictional bubble of frumkeit get annoyed they someone who is actually “chored lidvar Hashem” by not seeking kulas in halacha, takes a tiny pin to burst their comfort zone. The only “kefirah” I have is complete heresy to the comfortable bubble you reside in.

laskern, Moshe Rabbeinu’s reply of יצר הרע יש ביניכם to the malochim’s complaint of תנה הודך על השמים, only one of multiple “proofs” that Moshe replied as evidence that the Torah belongs to Bnei Yisroel and not malochim.

In Shabbos 88b Moshe gave a list of replies including positive attributes of Bnei Yisroel:
למצרים ירדתם לפרעה השתעבדתם תורה למה תהא לכם
בין עמים אתם שרויין שעובדין עבודת גלולים
אתם עושים מלאכה שאתם צריכין שבות
משא ומתן יש ביניכם
אב ואם יש לכם

Only ONE of them were related to having a yeter hara:
קנאה יש ביניכם יצר הרע יש ביניכם

So why would you give full credit to the yeter harah by stating: ” if not for the yetzer hora, the Torah would have never been given to us but to the malochim”???

In other words, even if there wouldn’t be a yeter hara – as l’osid lovo when “es ruach hatumah avir min ha’aretz”, the other replies uphold the right of Bnei Yisroel to receive the Torah.

The little I know –

1 – ” the Rebbe ZT”L conducted a non-meal farbrengen”

I was told that he always had mezonos and wine at the shabbos farbrengen. It likely served as seuda shlishis too. ” this was the will of R’ Yosef Yitzchok ZT”L, their father-in-law” – are you implying that the brother-in-law Harav Guraryeh z”l followed the will of the Previous Rebbe, but the Past Rebbe z”l (who considered the Previous Rebbe as Nesi Doreinu) DIDN’T follow the will of his father-in-law?! Surely they BOTH had seuda shlishis!

2 – “Chabad shuls have minyonim that are composed of other Yidden who are not from Chabad, and they cater to the practices of their mispallelim”,

REALLY? Do ANY Chabd shuls cater to ANY other customs/practices of other Yidden mispallelim?!

Example; Do they sing Akdomus (which is in the Nusach Ari Siddur but not said)? Do they say V’Shomru Frinday night (again it is in their Siddur)? Do they lein at night of Simchas Torah? ….

Name any other custom/practice that Chabad shuls do simply to cater to other Yidden mispallilim!!

DY, I have unlimited Ahavas Yisroel and indeed regret (klapping Al Chet, Ashamnu Bogudnu) that I was mekabel this loshon hara which was repeated here as a “fact”: that Chabad does not partake in seuda shlishi, a sheker gomur.

A few minutes spent on calling a minyan of Chabad Shuls accross the country revealed that this assertion was false and pure loshon hara, motzi shem rah and rechilus. Those that have promoted such “fake facts” are choteh u’machti ess harabim.

Mind you, I don’t know if b’shita they do or don’t hold of washing at seuda shilis. I shtam from Yekkas and some family members b’shita don’t wash to uphold minhag avosom. I have seen a published sicha that explains why b’shita one might not wash at this seuda (but the sicha clearly states the need to eat a seuda
od mezonos or fruit – that appears to be te shita of the past Rebbe z”l).

In any event, whatever their “shitah” is, l’maaseh. the Chabad Shuls I contacted UNANIMOUSLY (without exception) do have seuda shlishis, even with lechem mishne as stated in Rav S.A. that one should not rely on mezonos or fruit and actually wash for this seuda.

This is a milsa d’avidi ligluyay, anyone can do their own due dilligence and investigate with a few quick phone calls. The secretaries/receptionist will be masiach l’fi tumo and answer honestly that seuda shlishi is provided to the tzibur in Chabad Shuls.

The last few dozen posts were totally off track: about seuda shlishi on shabbos.

Let’s stay focussed folks.

This thread is LIGHT.

This thread is about about shavuos meals, cheesecake, blintzes, pizza, kiddush on milk (and nothing AT ALL to do with Chabad – but somehow every topic seems to gravitate to Chabad, why is that?!).

Isn’t it odd that among all the ta’anos on Chabad, that they are not frum by not keeping halochos of shulchan oruch, examples are provided: not sleeping in a sukkah, eating cake before davening, starting davening late on shabbos and yom tov…BUT with all the ta’anos, I haven’t seen even once the ta’ana that they don’t eat seudah shlishis! Why is that?!

I honestly thought this thread would be a light fluffy discussion about cheesecake, blintzes and pizza…nothing to do with Chabad…how did it get so interesting?! Every river leads to the sea. Every topic leads to Chabad!

Little – “There can always be exceptions, and Erev Pesach is one example. Shabbos Teshuvah drosho is another”

Well, the Shabbos Teshuva Drosha going past shekiya is a situation that can be avoided – I wouldn’t call it unavoidable, as erev pessach when one CANNOT eat a seudah.

If the Gabbay (and all the mispalalim who are surely looking at their watch) interrupt the rov and tell him to continue during Seudah Shlishis. They would do so if they haven’t yet davened Mincha and shkiya is approaching!

If it is a true “chiyuv” to eat a seuda, this would call for a hefsek in the drasha – unless, they can l’chol hadayos be yotzeh with divrei Torah (and be somech on the M.A. per Zohar for that shabbos)

Coming from Yekkas, many family members davka do NOT wash for seuda shlishis as is their tradition – so it is not exclusive a Chabad minhag. (IN fact, the Rav S.A> says not to rely on other opinions and one MUST wasj for seuda shlishis – so I don’t know how Chabad changed that).

אין עניות במקום עשירות
Can also be translated:
Poverty (of knowledge) cannot replace wealth (of knowledge).

Biur HaGr”a (Y”D 89, 11) cites Zohar (Parshas Mishpatim pg. 125, 1) that everyone should wait between dairy and meat meals “one meal or ONE HOUR”!

The most common pshat of waiting ONE HOUR means literally “one hour”: See Beis Yosef (O.C. 173, s.v. V’yesh machmirin), Shach (Y”D 89, 15), Pri Chadash (Y”D 89, 6), Gr”a (ibid.), Chida (Shiyurei Bracha Y”D 89, 6, s.v. v’ani and Kikar L’Aden 5, Likutim, 8), and Ikrei HaDa”t (Ikrei Dinim Y”D 10, 5).

This is the ACCEPTED halacha according to multiple poskim: Including the Pri Chadash (ibid.), Pri Toar (ibid.), Shulchan HaTahor (173, 2), Shu”t Kol Gadol (64). See also Shiyurei Bracha (ibid. 13) and Shu”t Teshuvos V’Hanhagos (vol. 2, 390) who cite waiting an hour as a proper minhag.

(An exception can be made if eating chicken after dairy…see Pri Chadash, Pri Toar, Ya’avetz (Mor U’Ketziah end 173) and Aruch Hashulchan (Y”D 89, 11) qualify this ruling, that the one hour waiting period does not apply before eating fowl).

It is very dangerous to post KULOS in a public forum, even if that happens to be your minhag, because others may c”v rely on it to wimp out on halacha.

It is not such a big problem to post CHUMRAS, because (1) most people are content with their lvel of observance and don’t wish yo be chored lidvar Hashem; (2) Should they begin to follow the chumra, there is no downside to being kadesh atzmecha b’mutar lach.

little – ” As for Shalosh Seudos with Divrei Torah, that is the Chabad line. It is unique, and is not accepted elsewhere, not among Poskim, not among Chassidim elsewhere… anyone besides Chabad.”

There is a halachic sefer called Mateh Efrayim (as far as I know, this sefer has nothing to do with Chabad – but I may rarely be wrong) 602:42 that one can rely on divrei Torah when rov gave a long shabbos shuva derasha past the zman to wash,

(In contrast, and for complete disclosure, the Mateh Efrayim himself writes in 597:2 that who are we to compare ourselves to the Rashbi – yo be yotzeh seudah shlishis with divrei torah).

Also Sh”t Tzitz Eliezer vol 17, s. 13.

And במקום can mean “to replace”,as here, the M.A. holds that divrei Torah can replace the seuda of seuda shlishis.

DY – “what you quoted as Shulchan Aruch is not in the Shulchan Aruch, not in the Nosei Keilim, and not in any of the mainstream poskim”

I quoted the Magen Ahrohom. Admittedly, there is a debate if the MA applies ONLY to erev pessach – a position you take, supported by GRA and Meiri, or if the M.A. applies to EVERY shabbos – a position applied by others, and I provided an example from Kaf Hachayim.

The Magen Avrohom is a “mainstream posek”. How to learn pshat in the M.A. is up for debate between later poskim.

DY, “if you can’t eat seudah shlishis, such as on erev Pesach, you should learn”, yes, I know the GRA 444:7 interprets the Zohar (and the M.A. that way), as does the Meiri Pesachim 13a etc.

But others take the M.A. at face value – applicable to EVERY shabbos. (This is quite logical since it is in Hilchos Shabbos and not Hilchos Erev Pessach)

Of note, the Kaf HaChayim 444:18 (no, I am not Sefardi – just a Jew) states that the Rashbi was able to accomplish Seuda Shilshi through learning Kabbalah and drawing the spiritual manifestations of the seuda through learning but we cannot do so (clearly the Kaf Hachayim applies this Zohar to EVERY seuda shlishis, not just shabbos of erev pessach).

lower – ask yourself, what makes wearing sneakers and jeans not shabbosdik? Well, truth be told, it “might” be shabbosdig for someone who only wears flip flops during week, so it is choshuv for him/her to wear snaekers on shabbos. Indeed, for some hotdogs or pizza may be a “special” meal, and not the usual far. But for most of us…it is obvious, that pizza, hot dogs, snealers, jeans are not shabbosdig or yom tov’dig. (Although you might be for the exception).

“we only wait a 1/2 hour between milk and meat” – when halacha says “sha’ah” (hour) it doesn’t mean half an hour. yes, there are shitos that are meikil to simply rinse and wipe mouth, but we are talking about those shitos that require a hefsek of sha’ah.

DY, “where in S.A. does it say divrei Torah is valid for the third seuda?”

Seuda Shlishis is treated differently than the other two seudos. As such there are opinions that apply ONLY to that mean (and not to the other two meals).

Regarding “an opinion” in S.A. of being yotzeh with divrei Torah:

Magen Avraham (444:2) quotes the Shlah, who writes in the name of the Zohar (Parashat Emor, on the verse “eleh moadei,” 95a), that Rav Shimon bar Yochai (Rashbi) studied Ma’aseh Merkavah (Ezekiel 1) in lieu of the Seuda Shlishis when erev Pesach was on Shabbat. Thus it appears that according to the Zohar, the obligation to eat the Third Meal can be fulfilled via Torah study.

Indeed, the 3 seudos are based on the 3 times it says “Hayom” by the mon, yet the 3rd time it says “Hayom Lo”, hence the dispensation for having a seudah without the full requirements of a seuda,

…hich is why people have a shabbos talis and a shabbos hatetc. Everything for shabbos should be special for that person. Now, normally people eat pizza during week, and for most people it isn’t a “special foods”, so it is voch’idig to eat pizza or hot dogs and burgers for a seuda on shabbos or yom tov.

Seuda shlishis we are meikil on the food, so there is no “proof” from what is served in shuls for that seuda. we are even yoteh with mezonos or fruit or divrei torah (as per shulchan oruch)