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“Slavery is sanctioned by the Torah yet nobody in their right mind would say that today slavery is OK” (theprof1)
I’m not sure any Jew in their right mind would say that something which is sanctioned by the Torah is not OK.
Perhaps you think the Torah is talking about someone who sails to Africa, forces a load of black people onto a boat, brings them back and sells them. That is geneivas nefesh.
We don’t really appreciate how hard life could be then. If someone had no money, he and his children would just starve. If you have no way of raising money (and no-ones able to give you tzedoko) then one last way of surviving is to sell yourself.
Even once he’s had to sell himself, the Yiddishe mehalech is to treat them kindly. As the Rambam writes at the end of Hilchos Avodim, cruelty is not the way, the Chachomim horishonim would give their avodim from everything they themselves ate, and before they ate themselves. He’s referring even to Eved C’naani.
The point is, if the Torah says something we think is unfair or wrong, we have to try to understand the Torah and accept it as Hashems word. If you can’t understand, say you don’t understand. But don’t turn around and say “its just not OK”.
if you brexit (or if you bremain) why don’t you go to the brexit thread and tell us why
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/brexit-your-view
“”It is an obligation to listen to the doctors (Maharik Shoresh 159, Shevut Yaakov 1:65, Yalkut Yosef Kitzor Shulchan Aruch Laws of the Doctor and the Obligation to be Cured 2).”
This is a misquote from those seforim. I checked the Maharik (http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=1142&st=&pgnum=178&hilite=) and the Shvus Yaakov (http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=1519&st=&pgnum=31&hilite=), they do not say that a person is OBLIGED to listen to every health pointer a doctor might give you. They say that we can RELY on a doctor. They’re discussing Niddoh and Tvilo shalos. For example, if the doctor says that wine on the hair doesn’t tangle the hair, you can RELY on him that this won’t cause a chatzizo.
So, for things which halacha dictates, you accept the doctors point of view. Something the doctor says is dangerous to the point of being life threatening, you can rely on him to be right, and therefore this would be included in the issur of sakonas nefoshos (see Rambam Rotzeiach perek 12). However if it may just cause non-fatal illness, I am unaware of any halocho reason that you can’t do it. Furthermore, someone who is already ill even with a fatal illness, I am unaware of any halachic chiyuv to heal himself. Inasmuch as there is no chiyuv, there is no reason for him to accept the doctors opinion if he thinks he knows better, as even if he did accept the doctors opinion he doesn’t have to do it.
DISCLAIMER: I’m not sure what I’ve written is true. Just varfing a svoro. If anyone knows better please lmk.
@chaniE “Leave to maintain some dignity and self respect” – not clear what you mean. Does being in the EU somehow make us look undignified.
There are so many serious rational reasons on both sides of the argument, I wouldn’t have thought it necessary to resort to vague emotional feelings. Just my opinion, to each their own
golfer – brexit probably won’t stop eu citizens being able to come to the UK. The uk will have to negotiate a new trade agreement with the eu, which will include free movement. Like Switzerland which is not in the EU but still has free movement as part of their trade deal.
There is a possibility of ditching free trade with the EU and just trading with America, China etc. But I think this is very unlikely to happen. So all the people who vote Brexit solely because of EU migration will end up dissappointed
Stay.
1) Security:
non-eu terrorists – they can’t get into UK as the UK has border control. They’d rather go to one of the EU countries after penetrating Greece or Turkey. As they say, to not get burgled you don’t need good security, just better than your neighbours.
Terrorists from within the EU – if they already have a criminal record they can’t enter UK as UK has border controls.
New terrorists from within the EU – even if Britain leaves, the necessity to negotiate a new trade deal will probably end up with free movement from the EU anyway.
2) Economy
Very complicated but apparently 9 out of ten economists say we’re better off staying.
3) Migration
This is a problem mainly for low-skilled workers who face competition from unskilled migrants happy with half the money. For the employers this is a benefit. Household help, builders etc would be much more expensive if we leave. There are also lots of doctors and nurses from the EU.
As far as changing the character of the UK is concerned, doesn’t bother me too much.
The only point is migration of Muslims, as it is recognised (even in todays politically correct world) that the anti-semitism ratio is far higher amongst Muslims.
There are lots of Yidden who benefit from the ability to move to the UK on the basis of a grandmothers Hungarian nationality.
4) Travel out of UK
Not just useful for holidays to not require a visa: I can’t help thinking that had the EU existed in the 1930s approx 6 million Jews would have been able to leave Germany and Poland etc. In todays increasingly right wing society I think that this point is valid if uncomfortable.
Hope this is all grammatically correct enough
do you brexit?