gavra_at_work

except that if you were here youd agree that lapids efforts are what they seem, not fantasy, and thats he’s making life a heck of alot harder for the bnei yeshivos, besides the draft issue. that tells me he means business.

This thread deserves to be derailed, so…

Lapids efforts to “make life harder” on beni Yeshivos stem from those Beni Yeshivos having previously been living off funding from the government. The Israeli people (as elected by Lapid) have had their lives made harder (in their opinion) by the dispersal of funds to “Charaidim” (in the form of laws that are shaped by the Charaidi partied to help their own, for example housing subsidies based on years married instead of years working or army service). Remember all of the “social justice” protests? Those were basically protests by regular tax paying Israelis against the continued increased funding to Charaidim & settlements, and Lapid winning all those votes is due to his promise (which he seems to be trying to keep) to refocus that funding towards army vets & regular Israelis (for good or bad). Add to that the actions of the “Baryonim” such as these in Mea Shearim and those in Bais Shemesh, and you get a population that wants to remove some of the Charadi political power, which is why Lapid could have never entered into a coilition with Gimmel (and was very Emesdik in saying so).

Now the populace via Lapid see an opportunity to “shift” the balance back to what would be without the Charaidi parties pushing support. V’Harayah that (IMHO) “beni yeshivos” are not specifically targeted (as of yet) is that Neturei Karta & Satmar, who do not take funding from the government, are not affected by any of Lapid’s actions. So far, it is all about Gelt (sounds like a disagreement we have had earlier!). I can’t feel too bad about removal of subsidies from anyone, even in a socialist country.

Once you take that into account, the deferment of the 1800 & the long time table involved show me Lapid does not want to (forcibly) pull guys out of yeshiva. He does want to stop funding them and redirect such funding towards others.

I count at least four unsubstantiated assumptions or misapplied concepts in the OP. Who can name them and/or find even more?

1: “He was wearing the wrong clothes.” Assuming he had spoken to his Posek/Rov who told him to join, he was certainly wearing the right clothes.

It is said four times in the OP.

There is a level of respectful dress that applies to all those created in the image of G-d.

Never heard such a thing. Source?

The people who attacked him don’t have conversations without guidance from their manhigim. They determine where to shop, where to daven, what side of the street to walk on based on the guidance of their manhigim.

And their Manhigim tell them what they want to hear, or they stop being their Manhigim. Case in point is Rav Shteinman, who got the same items thrown at him due to “supporting” Nachal Charaidi, and is continuing to be marginalized in the current “draft” crisis.

It is like many other government laws. They are on the books assuming the government agrees not to enforce them.

Based upon this you are obligated to move to a community where full Tznius exists in practice.

Why? There is no Chiyuv to move in order to avoid women who are in a (partial) state of undress. It is a Midah Tovah to avert your eyes in such a case, but even then there is no Chiyuv.

P.S. even in those towns, they still have to go out to buy food, clothing & to visit the municipal offices, where there are “wimmin”.

Josh: Isn’t it sad that some of the only few places where you can find real adherence to this mitzva are in places such as the two towns you mentioned?

Please inform me where is this “mitzva”? Especially on those Josh is discussing, the Eino Yehudim?

rabbiofberlin – more like Al Gore’s claim that he invented the internet. These things are not meant to be taken at face value.

America is a medinah shel chessed. At this point there still is much freedom in this country to enjoy and its better for Jews here than anywhere else. We have much to be thankful for and appreciative of.

Ad Biyas Goel Tzeddek, Bezras Hashem.

I don’t know of any goyim who grill hot dogs as a korban to some deity.

Offler. Although the sausages then taste like ash, since the “essence of the sausage” has already been consumed (of course, none but the Galachim would really know).

JMH, that was such a setup, no?

benignuman: WADR, animal cruelty comes into play as well.

What they are against is going to the army because what goes on there is ??? (I have two brother in laws in the army, one of them in a charade unit)

Unfortunatly, that is not what they have communicated to the outside world (or the Israeli public). Let them come out and say “We are willing to go to the army as part of Nachal Charaidi (segregated with no Shmad, even L’Shitascha) at age 21”. (Wait, that is what the government is proposing).

Also most arabs are not against suicide bombers (read the PA school books and curriculum) and The dati Leumi movement is not judged but the price tag elements.

OK. Can’t argue with someone who believes everyone wants to blow him up. The settlers are judged that way, at least here in the states (I imagine the Charaidi world may not, due to their own issues with extremists as you point out).

heretohelp: I fully expect that to be challenged in court as

discriminatory. Even now, let’s say it was two brothers for health benefits (which is not blocked by the law you quoted).

No isn’t above belt.

And I fail to see the ?? ????? here. Charadiem hate the extremists as well and have NOTHING to do with them. you are placing us all in one box.

Most Arabs hate suicide bombers

Most DL don’t like the price tag attacks.

Most Charaidim don’t like the spitters.

None the less, all three are identified by their extreme elements. It is not “fair”, but life isn’t fair either.

The haters have to stop hating. Those being hated don’t have to drop their hashkofos in order to stop being hated. Especially sinec they’ve been haters forever; it isn’t as if something came up that caused them to become haters.

Yes, but if it is the actions of the group that is causing the hating, first the actions should stop. For (an extreme, unsimilar, but pointed) example, did anyone question why African Americans in the 1920s hated the KKK? Was the answer to “stop hating”? And yes, if your ideology tells you that many Shomrei Torah U’Mitzvos have “been haters forever”, then you are correct. There is not much to discuss whith someone who has always hated you (but has continuously given you money….)

And what’s wrong with specifically tailoring a districting law for KY? Is it because it can’t be done for a township consisting of Jews – but it can be done for a township consisting of non-Jews. Districting is done all the time tailored to African-American interests and/or the interests of other general townships. Jews are less?

I didn’t say it was wrong (I actually agree with the original law which was specific for KY & should have been constitutional). You admit though it was done for KY (even though the final “law” did not mention Jews or KY)? So too here, the extra child subsidies were passed for the Charaidim, even if the law did not say “Charaidi” (and even if others can benefit). And now that they want to remove it, Gimmel is the one who is complaining.

BTW, today the finance committee was against the proposed cuts (which will probably go into effect anyway) because it effects many Chilonim as well. see the link you sent me! And while you are at it read the last paragraph.

That is my point as well. It is a war (and even Labor MKs see it!). The question you have to answer (I, as you point out, don’t live in EY (and I believe I have the answer, as above)) is why do your fellow Yidden (even those who are Lomdei Torah and Shomrei Torah U’Mitzvos!!!) hate you so much, and what can you do to stop it? As you now see, having a large section of the country hating you is hazardous for funding, let alone for Kavod HaTorah & Kavod Shomayim.

Sorry, it isn’t only for Charadiem. Plenty of Dati leumi and even Many Sephardi Chilonim have large families. Is there anything exclusively for Charediem as you implied?

Of course not. And the districting law in NY was not specifically tailored for Kiryas Yoel.

Who pushed for it & who cares the most if it gets removed?

This comment is so off-base and silly I don’t even know where to begin.

The slippery slope argument is a bad and unconvincing argument. Just argue against Toeiva marriage and/or state regulation of marriage. It has nothing to do with parents marrying their kids, people marrying dogs, etc.

It is not a “slippery slope argument”. It is a fantasic loophole in the tax code that could save families millions of dollars. I don’t expect these marriages to be “real”, but real enough for tax purposes (as the two parties do care for each other, etc.) that the IRS would have a hard time fighting it.

(I’d also note that your arguments would not carry to incest or to plural marriages.)

Expect to soon see many same gender (which may not be blocked by incest laws) “marriages” between parents and their children for both tax and benefits purposes. I can’t see any acountant worth their salt not using this ruling to get around estate taxes.

BS”D

Grow up Already: I’m trying to explain the non-Charaidi position, not my own. If it were up to me, the entire country would be very different, including no drafting of Charaidim (or anyone else who doesn’t want to be in the army). Unfortunately I do not live EY, and with the current political and sociological situation, neither do I feel it possible to do so (and I hate to say it, it sounds so Meraglim-like :-(, so I have nothing to do with your “civil” war.

And thank you for the quote of the Ponavaz(er) Rav. I’m not the only one who says taking Israeli money hurts the Charaidim (and is a large reason why there is currently “a war against Torah”, and why there is such a lack of Kavod HaTorah by Shomrei Torah in Israel).

A New Satmar Community…

Applications for the purchase of new homes are being distributed among Satmar congregations throughout the greater New York City metropolitan area. The new homes will make up a Satmar community within a three-hour traveling distance of Williamsburg (Brooklyn, not Virginia), presumably northwards. The initial phase of the new community will consist of 500 homes. A second phase will have an additional 300 homes available.

The new Satmar shtetl. The new community will be offering its homes, suitable for large families, for $40,000. Yes, that is a 4 followed by only four zeroes. That is a savings of hundreds of thousands of dollars and super-affordable. These homes are not a plan on paper, but are already existing houses at prices that will fit the ideal budget allowance for home rental or mortgage payments. The picture on the brochure hints that the homes are all two- or three-story detached single-family units, all with front porches, separated by private driveways.

In addition, the new homes are within a general community that will offer income and employment opportunities. Large commercial spaces have been acquired that will not only provide space for business applications, but for organizational usage as well. The planners of the new community have designed their new project well. The anticipated first phase of 500 families would include a committee that will ensure that every family has an opportunity for a viable livelihood, including a distribution of positions as rabbis, dayanim, rebbes, teachers, kollel members, as well as businesses. Members of Hatzalah, Shomrim, and Chaverim are enthusiastically invited.

(more on 5tjt(dot)com), this is copied in part.

Anyone else hear about this? Know where it is?

Just curious.

Current dimes made for circulation have about as much silver as seawater. However, the mint does sell special dimes that contain the same amount of silver that a dime used to have.

A nickel on the other hand has metal content approximately worth its value. That is why the government is looking into ways of making them for less.

Shraga18: “Shoelaces” is a Din in Yiddishkeit, not Charaidism. Perhaps it includes a Minhag that the entire Klal Yisroel accepted. If you believe that only Israeli Charaidim are considered to be Klal Yisroel (and I am certain that there are those in Israel who hold that way L’Halacha), then you are correct.

Grow up Already: You missed the entire point of my post, so I will restate it. The non-Charaidi (including many Dati, including most of the populace (even if not those beholden to the Charaidim)) feel seriously threatened by the “power” of the Charaidim, and as the Charaidim exersize that power (by creating exclusionary towns such as Beitar and parts of Bait Shemesh, funding schools, special “funding” for large families which is almost exclusivly aimed at Charaidim, etc.) the non Charaidim are fighting back. This is what happens in a war, one side (usually) doesn’t roll over and agree to die. When you start up, sometimes you get kicked in the “ham and eggs”. The Charaidim should have expected this when they got dependent on government funding and started crowding others out.

I have relatives whose children learn in the school who had a girl spat on and they are quite clear (as the majority of the parent population in the school) that these are extremists that do not reflect the majority of the Charaidim.

No one claims they are not extremists. So what? Since they are not policed by the Charaidim, they (and by extension, the whole) are still a threat to non-Charaidim.

It’s like suicide bombers or price tag attacks. Until the group does something about them, the entire group gets painted as being (or harboring) extremism.

DY & KJ: If you read the Chasam Sofer inside, he does not bring “Kol Kevodah”. What he specifically says it is not the Kavod of Jewish Women “to go outside in public at the beginning of the night amongst men”. Logically, this is because there are groups of women (from the guild of Seamstresses) that do go out in the early evening amongst men, and no Jewish woman would want to be thought as one of those.

Once the “Minhag” became that women don’t light, it went forward from there even though the reason no longer exists.

I’ve been leaving here close to twenty years, and this is the first time I feel the State/government of Israel is really trying to actively destroy yiddishkeit.

Not Yiddishkeit, but Charaidism. Halacha has no issue with having the same waiting room for both men and women.

Can you blame them? Charaidism (as shown in RBS, Yerushalyim, Beitar, etc.) is trying to destroy the secular way of life by force in many parts of Israel.

I do think this would have never happened if the Charaidim would have decided to visit the infidel with explanatory pamphlets instead of spitting, passing laws to exclude and burning busses. Once you decide to not “live and let live” (and yes, that is even if they walk though “your” neighborhood), expect others to fight back.

http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/meet-cindy-r-shafran-on-the-israel-draft-situation#post-473184