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gavra_at_workParticipant
JS/JOE: Already has been rejected. See above.
gavra_at_workParticipantIt is clear from the Gemorah and Meforshim Rishonim and Achronim that the type of punishment indicates what’s worse.
You are somewhat correct (Ayin BB 88B for a large exception), but that is not relevant to the point being made. Someone who doesn’t know (or recognize) that Chillul Shabbos is a problem (e.g. a Tinok Shenishba) will be punished less for that than someone who is MeAnes, or someone who cheats, while knowing it is wrong. Only the Ribbono Shel Olam knows what a person’s situation is and what they should be doing B’Asher Hu Sham.
Secondly, GAW, if a frei Yid knows that the Torah is true (even without internalizing it) and does not keep it, he is a rosha.
Judge not, that ye be not judged.
(In general, it’s not a bad idea, and certainly to those who have taken a step up so they should not look poorly on everyone below tham)
Once again, you don’t know where someone is holding and what the Ribbono Shel Olam expects from them in their situation to declare them to be a “Rasha”*. Perhaps they passed (or are passing) their Nisayon, and are doing what Hashem requires from them.
* There are exceptions, such as hitting someone or cheating, for which Chazal or the Torah (resp.) call someone who does them a “Rasha”.
gavra_at_workParticipantOomis: Chazal say that deep down, everyone wants to do the Ratzon Hashem. It is only the Galus & Yetzer Hara whofight and stop them.
Some people may have “given up”. Some may not yet have started to fight. Some may be taking a breather before going back into it. But everyone is in the war.
gavra_at_workParticipantsheepyaff: Punishment doesn’t equal “worse” in Halacha. “Worse” is up to the Ribbono Shel Olam to decide.
MDD: Most non-frum yidden don’t know enough to be a Rasha. Even if they “know”, its not internalized.
As for RSS, his statement has nothing to do with loving a child or not. He is simply saying that he will not be Over Avairos due to them (if it came to that).
gavra_at_workParticipant(Covering the hair in the courtyard would be a requirement.)
The Bais Shmuel disagrees. I’ll stick with him.
If it is a “requirement”, it has to fall under wither Da’as Moshe or Da’as Yehudis.
gavra_at_workParticipantThere is a Chazal where R’ Meir says:” why should I accumulate money for my children? If they are righteous, HaShem will provide. If not, why should I accumulate money for enemies of HaShem?”.
Lulei D’mistafina, I’ll keep my mouth shut.
I imagine this argument is similar to one had between Bais Shammai & Bais Hillel.
gavra_at_workParticipantMDD: The most broadly religious and Torahdik, yes.
That is not to say we have the Tzadikkim of earlier generations, but we do (or did, before the internet Nisayon) have the most knowledgable and Torahdik Baalei Battim ever, as well as the broadest base of Talmidei Chachamim. Chalk it up to universal education (and the wealth needed to provide it).
The internet may change that, but boruch Hashem it hasn’t happened yet.
gavra_at_workParticipant* Since the time of the Geonim.
gavra_at_workParticipantMDD:
As far as the PS, I would have argued the exact opposite. The recent generation of the late 80s & early 90s (brought up pre-Web 2.0) is one of the most Halachic and Torahdik that have ever existed, and certainly once you take size into consideration.
September 23, 2013 4:21 pm at 4:21 pm in reply to: My hobbies are swordfighting and hunting buffalo and other disappointing details #975870gavra_at_workParticipantPBA, Mod42: Love you both too 🙂
gavra_at_workParticipanteclipse: No worries. Gavra is the most popular Amorah (as in “Hahu Gavra”), so you were probably refering to him.
🙂
gavra_at_workParticipantGavra-at-work and the rest of the modern-leaning chevrah, there are beferushe Gemoros that it is a mitzvah to get divorced if the wife does not conform to the basic laws of tznius — Gittin 90B, Kesuvos 72A and someplace in Sotah.
ROB, don’t you start up!
MDD: Very good. Except that is not Tznius, but Da’as Yehudis. (I’ve posted numerous times regarding the difference between them. That is not one time or one place, but all the time.
As I said earlier, the severity of the infraction has to come into play as well.
P.S. I’m surprised you are calling me “modern” but then arguing that in Europe they didn’t follow these Halachos. Perhaps it is you that is “modern”?
September 23, 2013 3:11 pm at 3:11 pm in reply to: How to enforce Tznius guidelines in a Kehillah #976153gavra_at_workParticipantmiritchka:
The reason why they were so effective was because they didn’t go overboard. No “4 inches”, no “people are dying because of you”, no “R. Falkism’s”, etc. Halacha speaks for itself, made up chumrahs don’t.
gavra_at_workParticipantEither: “20 years coulda been paroled”
Or “soulmate forever partners in everything”
(Eizer or Kenegdo?)
gavra_at_workParticipantis it muttar for a ben torah to have a coversation with his female cousins?
🙂
By the the evry fact you ask about a “Ben Torah” vs. a normal Jew, you are asking about societal norms, not Halacha. As such, the answer is no. What if someone sees you and thinks you are a Mushchis, CV? You may be Passuled from life support!!
Stay away.
September 13, 2013 1:43 pm at 1:43 pm in reply to: Friend wants to marry girl he met online #1187434gavra_at_workParticipantYou can say that they crashed into each other. When the fighting subsided they decided to marry.
LOL
As everyone else said, why can’t you tell the truth?
gavra_at_workParticipantLeyzer: This is a tangent off of another thread. Read that one to get where we are coming from here. It isn’t that simple.
Torah613Torah: Good answer.
Oomis: The “Burkah women” is a natural reaction to the obsession with Tznius. They may really want to be more “Charaidi” and are moving ahead of the curve. With all the made up Issurim, Burkas are exactly where the “Tznius obsessors” are heading anyway.
gavra_at_workParticipantfunnybone & Oomis: Good points. You would think that the severity of the Tznius & Shalom Bayis should matter.
funnybone: As a side point, why do you say that Tznius is one of the “basics of Yiddishkeit” (unless you are refering to Mechikas Hashem)?
gavra_at_workParticipantTorahumaddah- I was replying to yitzchkims post about Rabbi Lipman not respecting the gedolim. On a side note, it may be hard to understand this but we are able to make our own decisions sometimes without then help of rabbis. Its our free choice not theirs.
YOU KOFER!
gavra_at_workParticipantShalom bayis based on a lack of tznius is not shalom bayis at all. /my10thgraderebbi
I have no idea what that means. Mind going back & asking him?
gavra_at_workParticipantToi: Is it worth a decrease in Shalom Bayis for additional (or perhaps even minimal) Tznius?
APY, because I didn’t see it since it wasn’t approved yet. My response (and we can continue here instead of hijacking that thread:
Yes, and so?
If Tznius was so important, then it (uncovering hair) would not have been allowed in the Sotah ritual. By the fact that it is allowed shows that Shalom Bayis is more important.
September 12, 2013 6:26 pm at 6:26 pm in reply to: How to enforce Tznius guidelines in a Kehillah #976148gavra_at_workParticipantYou completely distorted the gemara. The gemara tells us that shalom is so great that hashem allows his name to be erased. It says nothing about the fact that he allows a pritzus situation to facilitate shalom. In fact, the stated reason for “uncovering” (see Rashi on the word pura) her hair has nothing to do with shalom, rather it is to shame and rebuke her.
Yes, and so?
If Tznius was so important, then it (uncovering hair) would not have been allowed in the Sotah ritual. By the fact that it is allowed shows that Shalom Bayis is more important.
FYI, in general use among Achainu Beni Yisroel, the term “Hashem” is capitalized.
September 11, 2013 8:48 pm at 8:48 pm in reply to: How to enforce Tznius guidelines in a Kehillah #976139gavra_at_workParticipantAPY: You want to shrai, or you want to explain yourself?
Yes, I’m proposing that Shalom Bayis is more important (as far as HKBH is concerned, not “frumkeit” or “Charaidism”) than Tznius. Prove to me that I’m wrong.
gavra_at_workParticipantDew Drop Inn – what sort of name is that? For a Pub?
September 11, 2013 1:05 pm at 1:05 pm in reply to: How to enforce Tznius guidelines in a Kehillah #976134gavra_at_workParticipant“start chaburas on Rabbi Falk”-
So you want everyone in shul to stop dressing Tznius?
🙂
September 11, 2013 1:03 pm at 1:03 pm in reply to: How to respond to your eighteen-year-old teen who says this? #974338gavra_at_workParticipantOne day your already rebellious teen says “I don’t have to listen to you, I’m 18 I’m an adult you can’t tell me what to do.”
Help him/her to be able to function like an adult and assist in getting your child a job.
gavra_at_workParticipantAre You Near To Far
Are you here or are you thar?
Can you get there by car?
Does the town have a bar?
wherever you are
this rhyme is bizarre.
🙂
(My inner Seuss)
September 10, 2013 4:12 pm at 4:12 pm in reply to: How to enforce Tznius guidelines in a Kehillah #976125gavra_at_workParticipantWADR – with all due respect.
miritchka: I just added that it should be done privately. IMHO (in my humble opinion), many Tznius offenses are not due to blatant disregard, but rather not understanding or having been mistaught. That can be fixed, but only in a positive and private atmosphere.
apushatayid, thanks – you’re one of the first to mention talking to the husbands. I agree wholeheartedly – that seems to be a good point.
Completely disagree, unless you want to ruin Shalom Bayis and create divorces. In fact, it is better to not say anything than to cause friction in the home. After all, the Sotah’s hair is uncovered in the Bais HaMikdash (not Tznius!?) to create Shalom. (and FYI, the gemorah cares less about that than Mechikas HaShem).
gavra_at_workParticipantGood question!!!!!
Why do you want to prepare for Yom Kippur? Do you believe the RBSO seals your fate on that day? Who says so if not the Torah?
September 9, 2013 4:59 pm at 4:59 pm in reply to: How to enforce Tznius guidelines in a Kehillah #976112gavra_at_workParticipantI think having another woman, best if its the rebbitzen of the shul, go over and tell her straight out that she may not be aware of the halachic guidelines in the shul and please dress appropriately. It’s been done in the past. I would imagine its the same idea as a BY. When a student even wears the wrong sweater, there is a knas or some sort of warning before the knas.
Sometimes the best way is the blunt way.
WADR, being confrontational will only push the women in the opposite direction. If your goal is to make those who are not at your standards no longer Frum and thereby remove them from your shul, this would be a good idea.
September 9, 2013 1:30 pm at 1:30 pm in reply to: How to enforce Tznius guidelines in a Kehillah #976100gavra_at_workParticipantWhat practical method would you suggest to get them to follow the requests?
Have the Rebbitzen first call, then go to each one privately in their own home, and offer to discuss the Halachos of Tznius inside a real sefer (such as the Mishna Berurah). Many people don’t follow Tznius because either they think it is made up (blame the schools that really do make up Halachos) or they believe it is muttar (i.e. the famous misread Aruch Hashulchan). If you do it in public, it will never work, and it will boomerang so that they will not listen even if you are nice about it the next time.
Hatzlacha.
September 3, 2013 2:26 pm at 2:26 pm in reply to: Why Would a Girl Even Want to Learn Talmud? #973870gavra_at_workParticipantBYM:
I don’t see how learning Gemarah will help you (although I don’t discourage it). Your issue seems to be that your entire life’s learning has been on a 5th grade level, even when you went to high school, seminary and beyond. Learning Gemorah on a 5th grade level will not help you understand “the Judaism stuff”. IMHO, you need some heavy Hashkafa (which unfortunately no one really writes in this day and age. “Popular frum hashkafa” is IMHO mostly shallow). I would suggest the Rishonim and Geonim, their Hashkafic works, and looking at them with a critical eye. Then work out for yourself a blend of what works for you. For example, the Chovos HaLevavos is a wonderful sefer, but I can’t agree with his thoughts on predestination, so I personally reject that.
Learning Abaye and Rava arguing about Yeush, although a wonderful thing, will not answer any of your questions.
Hatzlacha.
gavra_at_workParticipantIt sounds as if you are saying the ultimate value is the tax, and the govt distributes it because it would be too annoying to store in big vaults.
Or burn it as fuel. Of course if you are a Randist you would only consider Gold and silver as currency, so you would burn your paper shekels in any case.
🙂 Thanx for making me smile.
gavra_at_workParticipantI would prefer a straight capitalist economy.
No you don’t. You are not a “Randist”. Tax money has to go somewhere, and in all truthfulness, the state is directing it towards those who support the state.
Lapid is a “populist”, following the protests of 2011. If he would join with the Charaidim, his party would (rightfully) be thrown out, as that is not what he was elected for. To a large extent, he was elected in the same way and the same reasons as the Charaidim vote: Give us money. The only difference is that this election (unlike most), he was able to deliver while the Charaidim were not.
As per the MDD/BL point, it was a tactical decision by the gedolim/askanim not to join the social justice protests, when they certainly could have done so (and it would have made sense from an economic standpoint). That decision is now coming back to bite them in the nose.
gavra_at_workParticipantToi: I’ll take your word for it, as you are there. I just know what I see from those who I know that live there.
Jerusalem reader: If you “cannot make ends meet” and are borrowing without being able to pay back, then yes, you should ask a Shailah. I’m not telling you to leave EY (Chas V’Shalom), but rather that it is a question.
(The non-frum person who borrows and doesn’t pay probably doesn’t care about Halacha, and is willing to not pay (just like he is willing to eat non-Kosher)).
In particular, the idea that the answer is for us to make yeridah rather than that something in the Israeli socialist economy needs to change is offensive.
In this you, I, Lapid & Bibi all agree. Those who argue are R. Gafni, Shelly Yachimovich & Zahava Gal-On. But that would mean lower taxes and no payouts to Charaidim (and US style health insurance with no medicare/medicaid), which is not what they (or even I to a certain extent) claim to want. If they do want that, they (being you) should push to join the government with that understanding. I actually believe it would go over well.
gavra_at_workParticipantJerusalem reader: What do you do and (more critically) what is your (and your husband’s) education level? You could be working two jobs, but if they are Gannenet and Challah Baker it won’t do you much good. Even programming is saturated due to all the Charaidi females looking for jobs & pushing down wages.
I have a friend in Israel who works for IBM, another for MADA, and another in high-tech. They all (boruch Hashem) seem to be making it. The common thread is that they all have education.
Rav Moshe Wolfson from Torah V’Daas is quoted as saying that when Hashem decides what you get for the year, it is where you will be in the range of the work that you do. Usually it in context of Kollel guys getting rich, but the same is true for a melamed or a Janitor. If Al Pi Teva you will make 30K NIS, don’t expect that Hashem will give you 200K. Ask that Hashem give you at the higher range, as asking for something that is not normal is asking for a neis, and you have to deserve that.
Also did either you or your husband go to the army? Without it, employers (rightfully may) feel that you are missing a certain aspect of the attitude/culture needed for the work environment. Just an idea.
As a final note, if you really can’t make it and are suffering, and you owe money that you can’t pay back (which makes someone into a Halachic Rasha (Al Pi Nach)) speak to your Rov about being Yored. Its not something I would suggest L’Chatchilah, but it may allow you to keep your sanity.
Hatzlacha in all your actions.
gavra_at_workParticipantWhile Judaism isn’t about rights, there is a halachic responsibility to provide for the poor, regardless of how they became poor.
Sheker. As I quoted earlier:
?? ??? ?? ??? ??? ????? ??? ????? ??? ??? ????? ???? ????? ??? ???? ?? ??? ??? ????? ??? ???? ??? ??? ??? ??? ????? ?????? ?????? ????? ????? ??? ???? ????? ???? ?? ??? ????
Kesubos 49B
You are mechuyav to provide the ability to work at Wal Mart (which currently exists). You are NOT mechuyav to provide funds. IN fact, you are mechuyav to embarass someone into working instead of sitting (even learning) and collecting welfare from the community.
Unfortunatley my buisness is not yet big enough to be able to qualify for Federal loans to do nothing that I don’t have to pay back like Solyndra or A123 or any of the other “green jobs” my tax money and my employees tax money was used for.
🙂
gavra_at_workParticipantAugust 23, 2013 5:37 pm at 5:37 pm in reply to: Best way to break in with nine-inch stilettos before Yom Tov? #1141920gavra_at_workParticipantThe OP must be nicknamed “spike”.
gavra_at_workParticipantND: Why? Its not as if he even said Hashem (which is also meaningless from a Halachic standpoint, and why we use it). Had he said “Amonai” is ridiculous, would you have said the same? How about “Konam”? (which after all means Halachicly Korban L’Hashem)? How about Conan? (as a Konam for Konam).
Where should it end? The Sem girl calling her date “KeliKaKu”? 🙂
gavra_at_workParticipantr-bbiofberl-n: Don’t you mean:
n-shtd-yng-sh-ft? Chas Vsh-l-m (after all, Sh-l-m is the name of HKBH) we would include all the vowels and state the name in vain!
🙂
gavra_at_workParticipantr-bbiofberl-n – Thanks.
dveykus613: Different mindset. Everyone else may as well be talking to a Hare Krishna (or a Feegle) when trying to discuss the issues.
My original post still stands. As long as you are not living off the backs of others, Kol HaKavod.
gavra_at_workParticipantHash-m is equivalent to G-d. Grow up.
Chumra creep. Nothing wrong with saying God either.
gavra_at_workParticipant“kiddush Hash-m”
Is that when you add Hash (weed) to your Kiddush? Please don’t talk about your drug usage on this website.
gavra_at_workParticipantShraga18: Most importantly, in two weeks, you get a chance at a fresh start (as we all do). Bezras Hashem the Ribbono Shel Olam will give you what you need.
To everyone else: Financial experts can really open your eyes and show where your money is going. You may be spending on things that you are not really using, or doing something that you think saves you money but ends up costing more in the long run. Also (as I’ve been told) if you are tight financially use cash and don’t borrow. Try to build up a rainy day reserve (they reccomend 6 months, and you can probably get away excluding tuition). The Ribbono Shel Olam may be giving, but you may be spending wrong.
Hatzlacha to all.
gavra_at_workParticipantI’m not arguing in favor of incentivizing having kids (which most societies say they want to do). I’m arguing that the state does take an active interest in providing a safety net for people and kids are people.
You have changed your argument from the cuts to the original subsidies, and I believe that works in my favor.
I think my point is that the state feels they are currently incentivizing children (which is not something they want to pay for, and was an unintended effect (by the state, not the Charaidim)). This cost was OK (as long as the Charaidim voted with the party in power), but is now overwhelming other parts of the existing safety net (such as apartments for veterans). This caused the social justice protests (and is what brought Lapid into power). Therefore the subsidies were cut back to be more in line with what would benefit the most people who do service and support the state.
Here in America, we are in a similar situation. The safety net of Medicare/Medicaid is taking up funds so quickly that it is causing us to not be able to uphold other parts (such as Head Start, which is being cut due to lack of funding).
gavra_at_workParticipantGavra: Certainly there is no inherent right to subsidies in the abstract. But there is an inherent right in a democracy to be treated fairly by the majority.
And when the majority goes against its usual values specifically to target a disliked minority, that is unfair.
I would have agreed with you if not for the fact that the generous subsidies were put in place by the Charaidim in past years to funnel money towards their own at the expense of the rest of Israel (FYI, the settlers have the same issue).
Second, I’m not certain that supporting children is the “usual values” of the Israeli state. The Kibbutz system (which IMHO would be fair to call “usual values” of the Israeli state) has/had group raising of children and the children working towards the needs of the Kibbutz. This is certainly true when those with large families overwhelmingly would replace the state if possible (both the Arabs & Charaidim with a Theocracy). If anything, the state has the responsibility to promote values held by the state.
(Of couse, this is the “liberal democracy” argument, not the actual or Torah point of view.)
gavra_at_workParticipantPBA: Even if you agree that there might be reason to provide subsidies for children, there is no inherent right for those with children to demand subsidies.
And yes, the Charaidim are the ones who pushed for the huge child subsidy that existed (and was designed to benefit Charaidim). Now that they are out of power, the subsidy is being removed.
I do feel bad for Shraga (as he is suffering due to the cuts), and would love to help him out. Since he would rather argue than work on his finances, I feel less bad. My final suggestion is go find a financial planner that can help you.
A quote from the Jerusalem Post, January 2013:
The numbers were stark. Of all bank account holders in Israel, 52 percent went into overdraft last year, half of them remaining in the red on a regular basis. Not counting mortgages, half the public was in debt of one sort or another.
Fully 20% of them were late in their bill payments, and many said they would not be able to deal with an unexpected one-time cost of NIS 8,000.
More than simply a snapshot of poor financial planning, the data paints a picture of a public that lacks basic financial literacy, a problem experts worry can have implications for the broader economy.
(Emphasis added)
gavra_at_workParticipantShraga18:
Once again:
What is your (approximate) income, and what are your expenses? Does your wife work (Most people in the US need a 1 1/2 – two income home to make ends meet)? Perhaps you are spending on things that are not “basic needs”, and you just don’t realize it. Do you keep a budget, or a ledger of what you spend every month?
I bet you have extra money somewhere and you don’t know it, because you (as most of us) are not a financial expert, and have not had your finances looked at by such an expert.
gavra_at_workParticipantLet’s ask an additional question, and then perhaps we could help. What is your (approximate) income, and what are your expenses? Does your wife work (Most people in the US need a 1 1/2 – two income home to make ends meet)? Perhaps you are spending on things that are not “basic needs”, and you just don’t realize it. Do you keep a budget, or a ledger of what you spend every month?
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