gavra_at_work

twisted: The Chanukah neis has nothing to do with the Hasmoneans subsequent rulership. Indeed Chazal are critical of the Hasmonean for taking the reigns of power since they were Kohanim not Davidians. Additionally, the bad behavior of the Hasmonean rulers were of later generation Hasmoneans not the ones that defeated the Yevonim.

From the Rambam Laws of Chanukah (and yes, even though they did other things wrong as you correctly point out, the reason for the holiday is ????? ????? ?????? ??? ?? ?????? ???)

???? ??? ?????? ????, ???? ?????? ?? ?????, ?????? ???, ??? ????? ???? ????? ????? ???????; ????? ??? ??????, ?????????; ?????? ?????, ????? ?? ?????, ?????? ??????. ??? ??? ?????? ???? ??????, ?????? ??? ????, ?? ????? ????? ????? ???????, ??????? ????. ????? ??? ??????? ??????? ???????, ?????? ??????? ????? ????; ??????? ??? ?? ???????, ????? ????? ?????? ??? ?? ?????? ???–?? ?????? ????

Mammele – Chassidim are a completely different world. Chassidim also have no push to remain in Kollel indefinitely, as well as a strong financial support system from their specific Chassidus, as well as their parents (and working father). That certainly helps the young couple make it financially.

Juxtapose that system with that of the Israeli Charaidi, where until after army age it is difficult for the husband to work, and all jobs for women in a Charaidi environment are low paying (oversupply). If there were to be a mortgage, many of those couples would lose their homes.

Compare that system to the Lakewood system, where the boy demands multiple years of luxurious support from the girl’s parents as a condition to even consider her for a date! My understanding (from multiple sources) is that the girl working is considered to be insufficient, as the father must be the one who promises tens (and in many cases hundreds) of thousands of dollars for support of the boy.

As a Litvak, I’ll readily admit these are two ways that the Chassidim have it right.

Joseph – Just saying that a married couple having an apartment in Israel is more likely due to the fundraising capabilities of the girl’s father than the couple’s ability to afford it.

I’ll try to lay off the Yiddish.

and almost all own their own apartments.

Nisht Rayah, as apartments are bought by the Kallah’s side in order to get married.

The Satmar Rav wrote sefarim expounding and explaining those few lines.

HaRayah that it has turned into Avoda Zara 🙂

P.S. Completely agree with “old man”. There is a clear dividing line, and you are “either with us or against us”.

It seems here people dont get my point, Its not what was said, but how it was said and if it was nessasry to say such a thing at all especially since they pose no threat to charedi judaism at all. I doubt OO even exists in lakewood or Monsey

It is a “Oino min Machananu” announcement. See my post above.

So? They pose a threat to mislead frum Yidden, and they distort the Torah. Those are big enough reasons to protest.

So did P.E.A.C.H., and not only was there no protest, they signed on. Same thing with the “Hafkas Kiddushin” Rackman case in Baltimore/Memphis.

Moetzes Denounces Open Orthodoxy – Why should Open Orthodoxy care what the Moetzes thinks? The “Moetzes” (in the form of its members) has already taken many stances against what the OO think, including child abuse, vaccinations and going to college (as well as many others).

This is really just a statement for the Yeshivish in America. If you wish to continue to be part of our club (and get your children into our schools, marry off your daughters, etc.) then you had better not support or attend functions with OO “Rabbis”.

P.S. If they want to make a statement, have Rav Shechter, Rav Meir Stern from Passaic, Rabbi Forst from Far Rockaway, Rabbis Schwartz and Fuerst from Chicago, as well as others with a geographical distribution. Have a “big tent” statement, not a group that has been discredited by their own statements (P.E.A.C.H.).

</rant>

There are several differences. Off the top of my head, z’man Mincha and Maariv, bein hashmoshos for certain situations (e.g. amirah l’akum l’tzorech), mayim shelanu.

Mind expanding a bit? Remember, they would also hold of the Gaon L’Chumrah (Assuming not as a minhag, but a real safek, like the MB).

Joseph

Rabbeinu Tam has a shitta that is held L’CHUMRAH, NOT L’KULAH by large portions of Klal Yisroel.

FTFY

@Ash – sure implied it. If you have what to add, please do so….

Also, I’m not @gavra_at_work, I’m gavra@work!!

Agree with DY, just hang up.

(Or to let me know if they’ve ever seen a sachet.)

(Or to let me know if they’ve ever seen a linen closet.) !

HaKatan – You have evaded the question of Zionism = Avoda Zara three times, and repeated tired lines about how the Zionists are the Devil himself. Obviously you don’t believe it either.

Shtikah K’hodah.

Agudah would, presumably, take money from whomever their rabbinic board permits them to take money. I don’t understand the relevance of that to this topic.

So you are punting and putting the impetus on their “Rabbinic board”. Is it getting Ha’naha from Avoda Zara or not? Relevant to this discussion, are you actively being M’karev your “brothers” who are openly being Nehenah from Avodah Zara?

The Israeli parliament is referred to in some sefarim as “knesses haMinim”. I am not aware of the heter the Agudah “MK”s use to enter that place, but I do know that the Brisker Rav would advise “MK” Rabbi Shlomo Lorincz Z”L about various Klal matters, and that Rabbi Lorincz did what he could for Klal Yisrael “working from within” the Zionists.

Referring to it as a “knesses haMinim” or a pig’s home means nothing other than exaggeration and hyperbole. If the Brisker Rav did not say it is assur to enter as a Makom Avodah Zara, then it is Muttar. He would not have advised someone who entered a meeting in a Church.

Regarding the wine, I have not seen anything brought down about that so I would have to ask my LOR. I think it’s an excellent question, though.

Please ask and get back to us. If he says “no”, will you agree that Zionism is not Avodah Zara?

Regarding the nonsense at the end about Israel and ISIS that you “put in my mouth”:

Had the Zionists never invaded E”Y, meaning over a century ago (not just in 1948), there would have been no need for an IDF (and there would have not been the Chevron Massacre in the 1920s, et al.), which is what the holy Chazon Ish told the first Zionist Prime Minister, as I mentioned above.

Now that the reality is that the Zionists have invaded E”Y and clearly are powerless to protect their citizens as, unfortunately, is quite evident from not only recent news reports but going all the way back to 1948 and before, it seems we need a miracle to resolve this. But davening for the Zionists is still 1000% wrong; we daven that Hashem should keep all Jews safe and sound, however HE chooses to do so.

You said the same thing that I did using more words.

HaKatan – Would you then argue that Agudah would take money from the Vatican, or from a Shinto shrine?

Do you (or those who you base yourself on) hold that the Kenesset is a “Makom Avoda Zara” and should not be entered?

If someone who is Modern Orthodox touched your non-mevushal wine, would you spill it out?

These are direct questions, I would like yes or no answers.

If you are in Israel, you are living intrinsically with it. You buy food from there and give to the economy, you are being protected by Israels army.

HaKatan believes that the only reason he would need protection is because the Tzionim rule. If we would only surrender Eretz Yisroel to a group like ISIS, then we would all be protected. Or at least we would have, before the Tzionim engaged is HisGarus B’umos.

Did they say “Mrs. Golda” (cf. Rav Ovadia) or perhaps like the English “Mrs. Yossi”?

Wife of “Ploni” or daughter of “Ploni”.

What if the woman is the sole support of her family and without this ride she has no Parnassah for her family

Bike or public transportation. Your Shalom Bayis comes before Yenem’s Parnassah.

1: This is exactly the case where Rav Moshe says it is allowed.

Correction. Rav Moshe does not specify whether it is a one-time deal or not, but from the description in Iggros it would seem to be a one time thing. Daas Yochid has a good point, and I don’t know what Rav Moshe would say.

Hadri Bi.

zogt_besser –

1: This is exactly the case where Rav Moshe says it is allowed.

2: Even Rav Moshe agrees that there is no Issur of Yichud, but rather says it is a bad idea because they might go out somewhere far and be Misyached. IN this type of scenario (which both are expected to be in specific places at specific times) that is not a Chashash.

I know they don’t because michael broyde had to write a giant article to be ‘melamed zechus’ on all the MO women who don’t cover their hair.

Sounds like he followed the lead of the Aruch HaShulchan.

Regarding Yiddish, from Wikipedia:

Yiddish (??????, ????? or ?????, yidish/idish, literally “Jewish”; in older sources also “Yiddish-Taitsh” (Judaeo-German)[3]) is the historical language of the Ashkenazi Jews. It originated during the 9th century[4] in Central Europe, providing the nascent Ashkenazi community with an extensive Germanic based vernacular fused with elements taken from Hebrew and Aramaic, as well as from Slavic languages and traces of Romance languages.[5][6]

I don’t know how either Yidden speaking it (English) or being sourced from German (Germans?) makes a language “holy”.

You probably have a better argument that Arabic is “Holy”, as not only is it similar to Aramaic and Hebrew, the Rambam (as well as others) also wrote many Seforim in that language.

There was no beginning to “Chareidism” except on Har Sinai; no particular person whose teachings they follow except Moshe Rabbeinu, and no particular Minhagim they perform. So there really is no such thing as a “Chareidi.” It is simply the generic, default, traditional manner of being frum.

Moshe Rabbainu came down from Shomayim wearing a Borsalino, a Spodik AND a Straimel!!!

Throughout Jewish history, there’s been a minhag of the Kallah’s family giving the Chosson a dowry. Where does this tradition stem from?

Nichsei Melug. Part of the reason of the Kesubah is as a pre-nup that she gets anything she brought into the marriage, including lands used to support her.

If she does bring in Nichsei Melug, then she can sit in her own chambers and knit, with the husband responsible to support her.

But it’s dreamed up by a group of Yiddim with awareness of their debt to The Ribono Shel Olam, who seek to fulfill His will with mesirus nefesh, who have a sensitivity and a feeling for what behaviors belong to the goyish velt, and wish to remain as far away as possible from those mannerisms to bring nachas to The Abishter

And so they build a Bamah AND bring Korbanos.

?’ ??? ???? ????? ????? ??? ??? ???????? ????? ????? ???? ????

This is why we have Halachah and a Torah. Hashem told us how we should serve Him. We are not allowed to make up from our own Saychal how to serve Him.

That being said, if there is a Geder as a reasonable (and for that you need a Rov) protection from being Over a real Issur, that would be positive (for example, not owning a smartphone), as long as it is couched as such and not as a stand-alone Issur.

While often they’ll vote Democrat for local races (Councilman, Assemblyman, etc.) based on bread-and-butter issues, they overwhelmingly tend to vote Republican in Statewide and Federal elections. This can be easily corroborated by viewing Board of Election results in overwhelmingly Orthodox, including Chasidic, voting precincts.

Except if Marc Rich needs to be pardoned? 🙁

This just shows a major shortcoming of the study, in which those who identify as “Republican” are “independent” (vote what the Rebbe tells them) and end up voting Democrat most of the time.

My point as well was that I expected the Chassidic side to be growing at a higher rate than other Yeraim.