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Buffalo Bottoms (take it from a guy). Do the same thing you would do for wings.
Also (seperatly) you could try dicing an onion on top.
Mrs. SarahB:
It was my understanding that Lakewood Ir HaTorah was run by the Roshei Yeshiva. If not, how did they get the schools to close when not everyone was accepted?
C”V I am in charge of anyone’s yiddishkeit, I (hope to) never tell anyone how to follow Halacha. I come from a distiguished line of Gavras (before that we were Mar’s).
Living in Lakewood (used to, I guess) be like being part of a chassidus. Either you listen, or are kicked out. If Moshe Pipik (great name!) and yourself are correct, then it just means Lakewood is not what it used to be, and I stand corrected.
In that case, it may be time to get out of the Lakewood schtik, just like Brooklyn. Move somewhere where they will be happy to accept your child(ren) as they are.
Mrs. Shindy:
I have heard the same said for financial matters.
Joseph:
If for nothing else, thank them for all the learning they supported throughout the years. Even if they would stop supporting right now and never give another agurah, we have no concept of the schar thay have for supporting tens of thousands of Kollel and Beis Medresh men learning.
To Pashuteh Yid & others:
This does not mean one should support the “Zionist” (Socialist) or “Post-Zionist” (American/European/liberal) ideals. We (as Yidden you are Makir tov to all beings, especially other Yidden) just believe in giving credit where it is due.
Mrs. Sharon123:
“Keeping up with the Joneses in being the “frummest”?” is (and should be) a priority for many people. Part of living in Lakewood is listening to the Gedolim/Roshei Yeshiva, and if they decide what the “Joneses” should do, then you have to listen, or expect to be left out of the greater Lakewood community.
If you want to follow your own Rav, Lakewood may not be for you.
P.S. I still suspect that if enough money was offered, the children would have been let in.
veimloachshuv:
As I have posted on the other Lakewood thread, there is not enough money to go around, even if the entire Hamon Am bands together, without the rich supporters.
We have gotten ourselves into this tuition/school mess, and, like the financial institutions, must go begging cup in hand to the Gevirim. They have every right to impose what they want, or refuse to give.
cantoresq:
You have hit the nail on the head. I believe the last one in the US was R’ Moshe. There may be no more until Mashiach (B’mhara B’yamaynu)
Joseph:
How about translating lesschumras into Gemarah Lashon?
Koach D’Hetarah Adif, Rashi Baitza (I believe 2b). Easy to say Assur, not so easy to say Muttar.
I happen to like the screen name.
veimloachshuv:
There is no good solution. The Gedolim (hate to say it) are meshubad to their Rich Askanim. That is why the Takanos for weddings didn’t work, the Roshei Yeshiva had to show up at the rich man’s wedding no matter what.
As has been stated previously, Talmud Torah is Kneged Kulam. These are the people who are supporting yeshivos and Kollelim. Who are we to say that the Gedolim should lose this money and cause many Kollel Yungelight to go out to work?
Note to moderator: I understand if this post is rejected.
Mrs. Shindy:
I thought once you have a sibling in a Lakewood school then you are set (and can go work). I guess it is different in other places, and there are exceptions.
I can only think they thought you would remove your other child if the younger one didn’t get in, and that way they didn’t have to deal with him/her. Note that is still not a good reason to reject a sibling.
I believe that in this case (Lakewood), it is more of a money issue (either on a specific or aggragate basis), though I am (B”H) not involved.
I never want to hear another word on affirmative action. If Obama gets elected, I never will. It will show an African can pull himself up if he wants, and even get the highest job in the land. All those who don’t pull themselves up are just lazy. All non Africans will agree, and affirmative action will be over forever.
I think that qualifies as somewhat pro Obama, Kit Kat. (or should I say Dukakis ?)
anon for this:
Could be anything, such as a hint of a TV (or other “bad influence”), or some small (or large) slight/fight that makes a parent decide that her/his child should have nothing to do with another person’s child. I truthfully don’t know of any specific cases, so I couldn’t tell you. I just see the reasons quoted here.
I doubt “they are upset because these parents can’t pay full tuition, and they don’t want to subsidize it?”
We ARE talking about Lakewood.
As far as Ideas are concerned, how about offering to pay full tuition to get your child in? It can’t hurt, and though you may need to cut back elsewhere or raise the money, your child is worth it, isn’t s/he? The administrator who previously said no may not be able to turn away a full-paying parent if the school needs the money.
mariner:
Don’t know the rules in NYC, but I can’t imagine the city not being able to bus out due to overcrowding. If not, they can always change the rules due to severe overcrowding (or change the “district”).
Mrs. Shindy:
The pressure on the administrators to pay bills is tremendous, both on the side of salaries to rabbeim and insurance/utilities (among other costs). I feel a little of “Al todin” applies here. I would not want to be in their shoes, and can not judge them on the hard choices they have to make.
That assumes the admin/principal doesn’t drive a Lexus off his salary.
Mrs. Shindy:
You left the discussion on the other thread hanging, so I will answer both you and Anon here.
The parents that threaten pay/raise full tuition, and can be counted on paying in 10-15K a year for the next 5-10 years. They also have connections, which causes additional funds to come into the system. The child not allowed in will need a discount and will bring in at most 1-2K, and will add additional children (BE”H) with no additional income to the school, causing further stress on the school’s finances.
The administrator has to pay the bills, and this works as a good excuse not to argue with someone who helps pay them.
Hate to burst the bubble, but I’m sure there is some place in the NYC system (I heard South Bronx is particularly nasty) where they will bus your child for a day. Included in the day’s schedule will be a sex-ed course, complete with graphic descriptions. Or how about just the teaching of evolution?
After that, they will have no problem with you wanting to sent your child to public school.
Mrs. Shindy:
That is my point as well. The gedolim are not going to create money out of thin air. It should be the resposibility of the parents to earn enough money (or raise it) to pay for their children’s yeshiva. The other way is to have the parents cut back, and not have the “luxuries” of the 21st century, such as air conditioning, or homeschool their children (a different thread).
By the chassidim, the “rich” chassid has an achrayus to the rebbe, and gives when he asks. Here, if the Gadol says he needs more money the rich man will find himself another Gadol. Raising money from the Hamon Am WILL NOT cover a school’s expenses. They are too many and not enough people pay what they should.
If you (or anyone else) have a better idea, I would love to hear it.
Mrs. Shindy:
Perhaps the administrator should offer a space contingent on enough tuition being raised to cover expenses?
On second thought, why doesn’t s/he do that for the entire school? Why should the rabbonim raise money and not the parents who need it?
smartgal is just pointing out that before telling ANY child “no, you are not allowed in our school”, a Gadol should be asked for guidelines as per when and how it should be done.
I think I mean to quote the Wolf on this one:
WolfishMusings
Member
At the risk of sounding silly, let me ask you to qualify your statement:
Yidden are the absolute best WHAT?
The Wolf
Posted 2 months ago #
Give Me a Break:
1) Don’t know him, but not Mekabel.
2) An understanding boss/company who doesn’t mind as long as the job is done.
3) Still didn’t answer the question posed. However, if you do not wish to answer, I will try not to bother you further on this thread. One is not responsible to answer all those who have questions.
Squeak:
You are correct, and as such statistical proof would not be proof. After all, even today it is illegal in some countries to be jewish, so you could say all Jews are criminals! Thank you for the point.
Mz. teenager:
Go MO. The Charaidi world is not willing (right or wrong) to allow a possible breach for one even though they will help many. Try NCSY or similar program.
The other idea is to try not to do anything that is irrevocable, and Hashem understands that you are trying to do the right thing. And it is hard, and you get credit for seriously trying. Your test today is very different than most people on the board here, and YOU have to know that you are not asked to pass THEIR tests, only yours. And feel proud when you pass your test.
Pashuteh Yid:
Hate to come in on a tangent, but there is a din of Malkos (and more) in the Torah for a reason. I grant there is a line between forcing with and without Eidim and Hasrah, as well as when the Yad Yisroel is strong or is “strong over itself”, but this is what we all believe. We do force our Torah views on other Jews to the point of stoning, if required.
Please explain how and if you would have done differently for the person who gathered wood on shabbos, or the one who was Mekallel (in the Torah). If you would have not changed anything, why was that not “Talibanization”?
plumber/electrician?
“Can someone please tell me, clearly, without screaming this and that, why Obama should not be president?”
Because the most qualified people in the election are Sens. Biden and McCain. Only one is running for President.
Give Me a Break said:
“That is an example of the wonderful acts of kindness that Klal Yisroel performs. But we aren’t better because we’re Jews.”
Please define better. If you mean that we commit less crime, more kindness, etc. than you must bring statistical proof, which I do not have. (If you do, please post public data statistical proof one way or the other).
If you mean loved by Hashem, we are his children and they are not.
If you mean able to fulfill the purpose of creation, we are able to and they are not. (they do have the ability to become Jewish and do so, but not while they are in their current state).
The poster was asking with examples of kindness by Jews, which he wanted people to publicize. If you do not have any examples, then you do not add anything to the discussion.
Since you (the writer) seem to read these…
Why can’t you take out a student loan and go? The issue is not with going, but the parents paying for it over everything else. If it is worth the money, that is what you should do regardless of your parents paying.
Would you have done it?
Moral non jew (if those were the only choices). But that was not the original question.
Joseph:
I believe the next question is how did your LOR respond to your unique situation after you asked him? Did you also ask why other people do not follow this Klall?
Yussel:
If (C”V, Lo Alaynu) someone had a child that was like that (drugs, murder, etc.), they would (and should) still be loved by their parents, who would always hope they would do teshuva. They would be loved by their parents more than a stranger.
Hakadosh Baruch Hu is our father. He loves us and is always hoping for us to return, no matter how far we have strayed.
As I did state, the non-jew will get rewarded (Olam Haba) for following the Sheva Mitzvos of Beni Noach and the Jew (if he does not do Teshuva) will be punished.
Yussel
Member
Intelligent (?):
“My grandfather always says that the lowest yid is better than the best goy! “
Do you REALLY believe that?
What does it even mean to say “better”. Better at what? Do you mean better in the eyes of “HaShem” and if so, would you (or your grandfather) say that a drug-dealing contract killer who also deals in child porn, and is a Jew, is better than a goy who lives a moral, decent life?
Respectfully, the answer is yes, even though someone has sunk to the lowest level, as he is still Hashem’s child, vs. someone who is not, no matter how “good” of a person he is. You are correct that the non-Jew will get Olam Haba while the Jew may not, but Hashem loves his children no matter what, even if they have gone astray, and always hopes for them to do teshuva.
For the rest of the thread, who knows the circumstances to be able to judge?
Agreed with JoJo, it would be a violation of free speach just to take it off due to a political view. I did not see the ad, but as long as it did not contain any hate speach, the advertiser could be able to sue YWN, which we all agree would be a bad thing
(perhaps cantor/esq or other lawyer could comment from a law perspective)
cantor/lawyer
tell that to all the subprime homeowners! See what I said about Kinnah.
Cantor/lawyer:
Mowing the lawn yourself assumes you have the time and ability (it is one of the things I can and enjoy doing myself, B”H). It also takes investment in the proper tools, which many people can not afford.
“There is an issue(r) (sic) chamur is propogating a chilul Hashem in any arena however.”
Agreed 100%, as per previous post. That is the issue here, whether the question was well worded or not.
intellegent: They also hate us for having nicer summer homes than they have year round. What do you expect from a non-jew when we can’t control our own kinnah and feel the need to keep up with the Cohens? And yes, we as a commmunity may be paying for the actions of the rich in this case; not because of our religion, but because of the wealth of a few and stereotypes.
Reb Zalman:
That is the problem. I agree with you and asked my LOR, and I am working (otherwise I wouldn’t be here!).
I what to know if their (in Kollel with wives working) LOR told them that their wives should go out, and if they did, then it is an amasla for those who do go out. If they did not ask, how could you blame anyone for thinking that these chashuv beni torah did not ask, and therefore those who do go out just followed the yeshivish velt?
Reb Zalman:
I hate to bring it up, but haven’t the Roshei Yeshiva waived the Klall of “Kol Kavod” to support Lakewood? And if not, why don’t the husbands go to work? If yes, then the women should be out so that the men should work less (or do less food shopping) and have more time to learn!
(I am looking for an explanation, not Stam to argue, and would love for someone to provide one)
Rabbi: Baruch T’heyeh
to blue and rabbi:
You missed the point. The point was that any undefined halacha (e.g. “bright” or “long hair”) is not a halacha at all. Halachos are specific (e.g. a succah higher than 20 Amos is Passul), even if we do not know what those specifics (an Amah) are. If bright would be a halacha, then the chachomim would give a shiur as to what is bright and what is not, or they would have said a Tefach is OK for hair, more is too long, and we would be arguing over what is a tefach!
In this case (tznius), there is halacha, minhag hamedina (which halacha says to follow if their standards are better in certain cases, as not to be look worse than the general population (don’t know if that applies today, when you can’t even look outside!)), and minhag (which is a personal thing). They are different issues. The original poster just seems to have gotten them confused.
Cantoresq:
Perhaps people have better things to spend their money on, like tuition? I think even you agree that paying tuition is better than paying some illegal to mow your lawn.
Agree with nameless on the signs.
The point is valid though, we should be better than others and make sure to clean up after ourselves, not to do so is a Chillul Hashem.
BTW, this may be part of the “bungalow mentality” that you are off for the summer and why should cleaning be any different?
To Mrs. nameless:
cc squeak:
point 1: of course.
point 2: of course.
Still not sure where you are going. #5 (spouse is amazing) is still the only thing that is meakkev. If one feels #5 is not true, why are they getting married? (execpt for Yussel’s svarah)
Rabbi: Bava Basra 91B Rav Yochanan.
Also in the opposite direction we have Chalov Stam.
Mz. Postsem (or anyone else) should not listen to anything that affects their soul the wrong way. Having someone else monitor what may or may not be heard sounds Orwillian to me (we are at war with eastasia and we have always been at war with eastasia, and anyone who says we have not been at war with eastasia will be re-educated).
It may be a better idea to personally avoid certain music, and have the Gedolim (for each area, what works for E”Y does not work for the USA (such as ballplaying)) give clear guidelines as to what is allowed and not, and let the people decide what they do. After all, this is a hashkafa issue, not a halachic one.
Our religion is a matter of inches, and the measurements of the chachomim are exact. 40 saah minus a thimble is not a mikva. One inch out of the techum you may not return (acc. to the chachmim). If they say a bird hops 50 amos, it does not even stick a toe past that. If you don’t believe this, you have no right to be in a beis medresh and should be kicked out!
This is why generalities are not halacha (i.e. “Bright Clothing”), only specifics (Red).
Then there are chumros and mussar, which deal with generalities.
Squeak: I thought when we were dating, do think now, and will always think/feel my spouse is amazing (no matter the surprises). I feel sorry for those who do not, and do not understand why someone would marry (if you are) a spouse who they do not feel is amazing (with the exception of an arraigned marrige).
squeak: Please explain why #5 can not be assessed on a date, and if not, what is the purpose in dating? If you do not think your future spouse is amazing, why are you marrying her/him? (hopefully not due to the shver’s wallet!)
Mz. Tzippi: Thank you and agreed, but you still have the precondition that you feel your spouse is amazing (and attractive, which goes together).
Earn enough money to pay private school tuition. If not the case, work with school to cover some expense (such as babysitting teacher’s kids, security, tutoring, cleaning up, and many more) so that it covers tuition (save on payroll costs).
Otherwise, convince rich people to give to yeshivas instead of their own pet charities, even though they are good Tzedakas. The additional money has to come from somewhere.
def: Harry: A MO FFB who “frummed out” in E”Y, went to YU (possibly college yeshiva such as Landers or Baltimore) to make parents happy. Somewhat non-understanding of the Yeshiva world, but more “frum” and thought out than them since they chose to be “Charaidi”, vs. being born into it.
1, but only if the guy thinks 5 is true.
Mrs. (B”H) bored@work:
That was the first exception. No complaints, this is where you wanted to go and you got there (with Hashem’s help, of course).
Bizrizut: So break the trend and don’t send your kids. Or, send them to Michlalla and have them get real credits from a real college that they can use back home.
There has been a good point made by a couple of posters:
WHY DON’T THE SEMS REQUIRE FUNDRAISERS LIKE ANY OTHER JEWISH INSTITUTION?
Please try to comment on this point as well (or if you have seen such a fundraiser).
Mz. bored@work:
Was it worth one possibly two years of Kollel learning? (the answer may be yes, but please justify). Also please answer why you feel E”Y was better than a more local Sem.
Please don’t answer me that getting married soon is only a shema, and one would have time to save, (or that you don’t need money to stay in kollel) as that would be too depressing.
I don’t understand the issue:
If money is no object, then who cares.
If money is an object, than your money is better off spent on spending an extra year (maybe two) in Kollel with your husband. (assuming that is what you want by the time you finish high school). 25K can go a long way, even when you are married.
Two exceptions:
1: where the father wants his daughter to “be brainwashed” (for lack of a better term), where sem MAY accomplish that.
2: Where the child needs to get away from home in a semi-supervised place, such as when she needs to grow up. In those cases, Manchester (or other Sem in Europe) or Baltimore (or any other US seminary)if you don’t live there will do the job. She may even become more into yiddishkeit than if she went to Israel.
If you just want her to have the “Israel experience”, take a vacation with the family (or just her), it will cost less.
I believe some rabbis have said it should be avoided if not needed. That makes it into a question. Please ask your own Rav for further Halachic Guidance.
If it is a hashkafic question, that presupposes that your rav has said it is OK.
TVT:
Hope you are right, but Lakol Zman Veis. (possibly if the children are showing off their wealth).
Anon:
I know some kids who are home-schooled and are very social, but you see there are those who are not, so it depends on the child. Good for you that you decided that your children’s needs was the major consideration.
Have a good shabbos ya’ll.