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It was described to me as being extremely luxurious, not like the stalls in Machane Yehudah. Perhaps someone who lives in the area of Lakewood can give us a report regarding the store and tell us what they think?
GAW -“After all, they have a nut bar.”
What’s that?!?
My understanding (as reported to me) is this is a specialty appetizing area that only sells different types of nuts, such as walnuts, cashews, etc. A sign of decadence and spare wealth that the area has.
Since you dont know who he is or what his qualifications for writing such a book are, you trash it?
Absolutely. I “trash” (more like disregard) it based on its content, not based on the author. I then derive conclusions about the author based on the content of his books.
“Perhaps that was the RBSO’s plan to get the Bashert’s together?”
I didnt finish all shas(yet), so I can not say this definitvely, but am reasonably certain that even though harbeh shluchim lamakom, this is not one of them.
I know it’s Adar but surely there are limits to the the craziness.
Tanach has stranger stories, such as Yehudah and Tamar.
Right. Like MO.
The problem is that those parents want their kids in the same class as the kids from klei kodesh families with no internet (and frankly, I don’t blame them for that), otherwise, they would have done what you suggest.
I don’t disagree (and wouldn’t call it a problem either). This is directed originally at Abba_S, who was concerned about affordability. As long as you admit admission policies can be used to guide a school to be “elite”, elite is determined by those who make the policies, and they can choose whatever criteria they want. Those who wish to be elite in other ways (a Yeshivish type school with strong academics is a good example) can (and have every right to) open up such a school if they so desire. Others (such as Rechnitz) have the right to support those schools or not as they desire.
gavra: Elite schools only work in-town, where there are many yeshivas each catering to a different segment. OTOH, OOT where there is one or few yeshivas, there is no option of choosing another yeshiva.
Lakewood IS “in town”. After all, they have a nut bar 🙂
Besides that I don’t see what your point is.
That said. If public school is the only option, the person is living in the wrong city.
Homeschooling :p
Seriously, the assumption of those who promote elite schools is that there are other schools available.
I am not referring to wealth, rather admission policies.
So? Let the admission policy include that to be considered for admission, you must prove you can pay in full.
However nowhere does it say one should not learn if you cant pay. There isnt any shitta ANYWHERE saying that
Not certain of your point. They can go to non-elite schools that accept children with filtered internet.
Why can’t the “elite” be those who pay in full
You mean like MO?
Like those who patronize the new nut bar at Gourmet Glatt. (which reached me all the way here for the extravagant Gashmius now available in Lakewood). You think MO have the exclusive on extreme wealth?
If all of those other things can be a factor in admission, then yes, wealth can be one as well, if a school chose to do so. And no, they would not be supported by the community, nor would they need its support.
why assume differently here?
From the content of his works it is obvious he doesn’t and hasn’t been involved in corporate America (AKA “the outside world”). He isn’t a Gadol whose statements should be valued as “Da’as Torah”.
Truthfully, other than this book, I have no idea who the “rabbi” is and what he does for a living. If he has qualifications and expertise in interpersonal relationships in a workplace (a doctorate in business administration, perhaps?) , I’m willing to change my views.
I think you can use your imagination. But in something related, many many years ago, there were two men who were chavrusas, who learned at home, and the wife was always around and in the end she divorced her husband, the chavrusa divorced his wife and they married each other. If your imagination doesn’t suggest anything, would you want your wife to get too familiar with your friend?
And I’m aware of a similar situation with a brother and sister in law, married to siblings who then divorced and married each other. Do we ban family getting together as well (just noting the logical inconsistency, not arguing for either side).
Perhaps that was th RBSO’s plan to get the Bashert’s together?
This is gavra l’shitaso (hamut’ah) that yeshiva/BY is a luxury.
Aderaba, it is the shittah of others that certain schools should only cater to the “elite”. Why can’t the “elite” be those who pay in full, instead of those whose fathers are in Kollel, or don’t have any internet (even filtered), or parents weren’t Benei Niddah (something they can’t change about themselves)?
When I get on a homeschooling rant I’ll let you know 🙂
So if someone cannot afford full yeshiva tuition, they should send their kids to public school?
Lishitas the defenders of Lakewood elite schools, there are always new schools that are opening. Let the new schools take the rejects, whether they are those with filtered internet, working parents, or those who don’t pay in full.
There should be 2 full tuitions, one for the rich & one for the poor!
There should be 2 prices for Maserati, one for the rich & one for the poor!
For examples of a “popular Halacha book” that is a “Sefer” that shows all sources, see Rabbi Ribiat’s 39 Melachos or Rabbi Forst’s Artscroll Seforim.
Depends what their reason is for refusing to pay full tutition.
Some people might refuse just because its just not possible. you cannot pay something you dont have.
And I wanted to lease a Maserati, but I didn’t have the money. Should I run to Rechnitz?
If the policy is full tuition or elsewhere, that is the price that needs to be paid.
The shulchan aruch is a “popular Halacha book”. Just saying.
Yes, but the author was an expert on the subject matter :), and followed basic rules (which were broken every now and then) so that everyone could understand where the Halacha was sourced and that he did not make it up using a Boich Svarah. Makes the “book” into a “Sefer”.
These “popular Halacha books” would be Seforim if they actually sourced their Halacha. Then again, if they did, they couldn’t be Machmir 100% of the time (See the differences between R. Falk’s Teshuvos, where he Paskens, and his “book”, where he is Machmir (as per the minhagim of his community), because he doesn’t have to defend a Psak. He can simply say “this is what should be done”. And everyone (even outside his community) does it, or their Isha children get bumped down on the Shidduch list and all their children are rejected from schools as “not following rules” or “not our type” or “not following Halacha”).
</rant>
I’m not sure how much overlap there is between the Assembly district and the Senate district, but they aren’t the same.
There are, if i am not mistaken, 63 seats in the ny state senate and 150 in the assembly. it is possible to have a heavily democratic assembly district in an overall republican senate district.
Makes sense. Thanks for the help, and let’s see what happens.
Joe – so why is the assembly person a Democrat?
The Republicans are likely to retain Skeolos’ vacated Long Island seat.
Curious why you say that. The Democrats are running the Assembly person for that district, while the Republicans are running an unknown. On what are you basing your assumptions?
Cut most private school spending,
In the Five Towns, there is an emergency election to replace the former speaker of the Senate (Skelos?). If he is replaced by a Democrat (likely), the chamber will turn over to Democrat, and Legislative changes become extremely likely.
YW Moderator-29 – If one really wants to show the world they are Frum, calling Noshim by their married name is insufficient. To get your children to the top of the Shidduchim list, you need to start ripping off clothing (Al Pi the Gemorah Brachos 20a), and not calling Noshim by their last name either (using a last name also can show familiarity!!). Using the English term starting with a “W” and ending with “men” or “man” also shows a lack of Frumkeit, and will push your Isha child back on the Shidduch list.
Regarding your second point, I do not see the Rabbi who wrote that book having any qualifications or expertise regarding the subject matter. Therefore, it is no different than stam a guy who has Smicha (or not) writing a book.
For one its ILLEGAL in the United States. You cannot get married in any state before 16.
Doesn’t stop anyone else from having babies. So the children will still be the responsibility of the parents. In the current system of support they are anyway.
For thousands of years in Europe, pre-Europe and among the Sefardim, Yidden got married not long after their Bar/Bas Mitzvah.
And went straight to work, which is DY’s point.
Takahmamash, she seems to be saying that being chareidi, as opposed to other forms of frumkeit (sorry, gavra, but I will continue to use the term which 99% of us use) is merely external, which shows an unfair bias.
And I’ll just agree by saying ALL Frumkeit is external, not just the Charaidi type.
Thanks for the mention 🙂
So you think it’s proper to shame people?
It doesn’t make a difference what I think. Chazal does believe it to be appropriate.
Kesubos 49b (from Mechon Mamre)
??? ??? ???? ???? ??? ????? ?? ????? ????? ?????? ???? ??? ?? ?? ???? ??? ?????? ???? ????? ?????? ??? ????? ?????? ?? ??? ????? ?????? ?? ??? ?? ??? ??? ????? ??? ????? ??? ??? ????? ???? ????? ??? ???? ?? ??? ??? ????? ??? ???? ??? ??? ??? ??? ????? ?????? ?????? ????? ????? ??? ???? ????? ???? ?? ??? ???? ?????? ??? ????
That being said, the standard of living expected (the real problem) is so high that if someone would live like Chazal did at that time, his children would be taken away.
To the OP’s point, if Torah Jews block vote purposefully, they do so for someone who gives them favors, whatever they may be. Case in point is Hillary’s election to the Senate in 2000, where New Square voted for Hillary 1359 – 10 or something similar (while Kiryas Yoel voted en mass for the Republican). In exchange, her husband Bill pardoned four people who had stolen $40 million dollars from the government.
Another example where it was tried was when the “Vaad” of Lakewood endorsed Corzine over Christie, because Corzine gave BMG Kesef. None the less, the Olam saw through it and voted for Christie because he was not pro-SSM and more in line with Torah values.
So I would say the latter (Republican), unless the Shochad is large enough.
To sit on that much money would be unacceptable in the frum world.
Unless it is “invested” in real estate, insurance companies, nursing homes and the like. There are plenty of really rich Yeraim Jews (9 figures +) (who do give a lot to Tzedaka).
Satmar Rov brothers (both of them) are rich AND famous. Is Satmar not “authentic Judaism”?
How about Rebbe Yehudah HaNasi?
DY: I would also rephrase:
“Yeras Shomayim is the relationship one has with God. Frum, Chareidi, and all the other labels are how you present yourself to the rest of the world.”
What would you consider yourself in chu”l?
A Quaker. Or hopefully Rav Moshe’s term “Yeraim”.
I would think you need an Israeli to explain the nuances of that society.
That being said, many of those who in America would be “Chareidi” would not be described as such in Israel.
HaYom – Im Tishmau B’Kolo.
Rebyidd: No, but one of my sister’s seminary teachers taught her that it’s Apikorsus to say that neopaganism exists because it denies the Gemara that HIR referenced.
Seminary IS AVODA ZARA 🙂 :-p
Seriously, just another example how Sem teachers really don’t know anything.
“Thanks for that information.
Can you notes tell us what *is* Avoda Zora? “
Rambam AZ 2:1
???? ?????? ?????? ???, ??? ????? ??? ??? ???????–?? ????, ??? ????, ??? ????, ??? ??? ????? ???????, ??? ??? ??? ??????? ???. ??? ?? ?? ?????? ???? ??’ ??? ???????, ???? ???? ????? ??? ?? ??? ???? ???? ????? ???? ?????–??? ?? ???? ????? ???.
the fund could tell you to send your kid to the cheaper school and not give you anything
The fund could also tell the parents to home school.
There you go, I’ve created the fund 🙂 No money needed, just telling parents they should home school instead of sending to Yeshiva.
The little I know – Until the “fund” disqualifies Bobov because they don’t teach any English, and SAR because it is OO, and This one, and That one……
You get the point.
gaw thanks I will go back to learn so I wont stay an Am harets
Excellent. Just remember that Chazal said one should learn from a Rebbe, and not alone, as learning alone creates mistakes. If you had learned from your Rebbe (and not Rebba, Rebbe) what are the halachic parameters of Hilchos Shabbos rgarding Daber Davar (or even looked up the Mishna Berurah Siman 307), then you would have known that your statement was Am HaAratzus.
Making up Halacha doesn’t make it into Halacha.
I wish you hatzlacha in your Limudim.
zahavasdad – They could also only accept those who pay in full, just like any other service. I doubt SYR or any other askan will complain too much if a child is rejected because the parents refused to pay the tuition fee.
Things that people do wrong – halachically
Going to the Mikvah while wearing Tefilin – it is a Chatziza. Like the guy who exercised every day in his Tallis, because his doctor told him he must exercise every day – religiously.
Lo yihei deburcha beshabbos kidiburcha bechol
you do not have to like it that is the halacha shabbos is lo yom vlo layla its SHABBOS
A statement of Am HaAratzus, and Lo Am HaAretz Chassid. 🙂
Are you going to tell me next that if one normally walks during the week, they must hop on Shabbos? After all, Lo yihei Heluchach beshabbos kihiluchach bechol! you do not have to like it that is the halacha shabbos is lo yom vlo layla its SHABBOS
Abba_S – In Lakewood, perhaps a school that charges what it actually costs, with no discounts (and transportation included!) would be successful.
In Bloomingberg NY where the Satmars are building a community and the county denied many Hasidim the right to vote in the last election. A Federal lawsuit was brought and Sullivan County agreed to pay over $550,000, plus all voter information and ballots must be provided in Yiddish and the county will be under a Federal Monitor for the next five years. The Monitor not the election board decides who can or can’t vote during that period.
Amazing.
DY – Both Rabbi Perr of Yeshiva Derech Ayson in Far Rockaway and Rabbi Mandel of YOB have declined to accept (seven figure) donations from those who they believe their money isn’t Tahor.
In the case of Rabbi Mandel, there was a famous singer (Barbara Streisand) who once went there and wanted to donate. In the other, P. Diddy (the rapper) was defended successfully by the Menahel’s Brother, Ben Brafman.
There are those who will accept money from anyone. There are those who believe that Torah launders money from its source.
Others believe that the source of the money affects the learning.
THAT all being said, I agree with you that Yichusdik is wrong in this instance. The institutions in Lakewood don’t believe that Rechnitz (and others like him) are wrong, doing something assur, etc. Rather, as others have pointed out, they discriminate simply for a need to be seen as elite, so they get the best applicants and are viewed as the “top” schools. V’Harayah, if they were in an out of town community, they would be thrilled to accept any of the children they currently reject.
L’shitascha, where would you draw the line? Would you accept a donation from an OO person? Mark Zuckerberg? Yair Lapid? JTS? Campus Pride? The Pope? At what point do you say “enough”?
yeru613 – and when they come for you because you have internet in your house, even filtered & monitored Yeshivanet?
Benav- The real (and best) solution is the BMG should pick up and move. Lakewood is no longer the town that Rav Aharon wanted his yeshiva to be in.
Abba – I don’t know how placement works in Lakewood or East Ramapo (BH). My suggestion was to audit the process, and hold all placement until that is done; I don’t know if that is legal or feasible. However, the forensic accounting of each school that accepts any tuition from the district is bound to save quite s few dollars (and uncover quite a bit in possible savings).
nishtdayngesheft – You probably remember better than I do.
Too bad. We will have to wait.
Joseph – Exactly. Then again, I don’t know the exact numbers of public to private spending in Lakewood. IIRC I saw something in East Ramapo that has them at a 60/40 split (public vs. transportation & special ed.).
This would only happen if the district already has 40 child classes in public schools. At that point, I imagine a majority of funds are going to private school children already.
GAW. I understand that, but the gemaras kal vechomer applies to anyone. If they taught you something, then they are due some measure of kavod from you, perhaps even to be called Rabbi by you. I am not suggesting ?????? ????????? ????????????.
Your “perhaps” is a stretch.
gavra: If the district runs out of money, and the State offers none, it will be the black and hispanic public school parents running to the State begging for money to restore all the gutted non-mandatory classes, leaving the public schools with a skeleton curriculum of mandatory-only courses and hours.
The state could (I don’t know what they will do) then place those children (who want public school) in outside districts and pay those districts directly, subtracting that amount from any funds the state normally pays to the district itself. Certainly reasonable if the number of public school children within the district drops (which has to be expected).
Or HaGaon Rosh Yeshiva BMG Aaron Kotler can pull a rabbit out of his black hat. He has done it in the past. Perhaps they will call it “E-Rate” 🙂
You can combine bus routes so if a family has twins a boy and a girl (Or more likely children a year apart), but they go to seperate schools, the school bus can pick them both up and drop each off at their respective schools, this is more efficient and money saving.
Not happening, and you know it. Even if it was offered, private school parents in Lakewood Ir HaKodesh would not send their children on such buses.
More likely to save money (from what I read) is the removal of Helen Tobia, and the monitor banning any outside placement for special education services, especially if the parents are represented by Michael Inzelbuch (whom the district should ban from any cases due to conflict of interest). Something like a moratorium on any placements until they can settle things and do some forensic accounting on the schools who accepted outside placements to see if any illegality occurred.
I imagine that will save a signifigant amount of money for the district. :p
End story, the district will run out of money and the state will not offer any.
Joseph – exactly. So there will be cuts to public schools, and no busing.
APY – The stature is for being Mechabed a teacher, not calling him
?????? ????????? ????????????
Joseph
Member
Just one using many names.
Back when, we thought the whole YWCR was only one poster arguing with himself 😛
Very cute.
W3DCB: can you post a link to the cliff’s notes version of your comment?
Cliff’s notes version: He has all of his children in school, and had pull so not to have to beg or worry about it.