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Joseph,
It is one thing if he claimed his works were written via Ruach haKodesh, but facts like these that don’t pertain to any Jews he simply obtained thru whatever info was at that time as Halevi has pointed out.
Similar to what the Rambam writes regarding scientific facts that Chazal write..
In any case, in not arguing I’m just pointing it out the facts.CT,
Good point, but whatever hand matzoh you use, if you rewarm/bake it it will certainly have a much better taste and texture. Most matzos are a couple of months old and are kind of stale.
“So, Rav Akiva Eger held that smoking is good for your health. How ,then, can more recent poskim hold that it’s assur? ”
Asides that the very comparison is A”H (as pointed out by DY). The very issue about smoking on its own is really misquoted and can still be relevant.
For starters you got the wrong Achron, it is the Pnei Yehoshua NOT Rav Akiva Eiger. (at least look up your sources before making a bold statement)
He states it in regards permitting it on YT, as it has to be Shava le’Chol Nefesh to consider as Ochel Nefesh, and many people do not smoke etc. so he simply says being that it helps for digestive reasons it is permitted.He is simply saying it based on how it was accepted at the time and how it was utilized. And BTW one can still make that very argument nowadays.
“Gaon, a mom and pop Ashkenazi rabbi in Israel isn’t permitted to permit kitniyos”
Agreed – however he has others with him, also it is absolutely not relevant to Chu”L as he claims in Israel they really never accepted the minhag in the first place. It only spread out via the Chu”L who came at a later time..
FYI – The MB himself had minhagim not like the psak in MB.
Joe – there are many chumrahs and tekanos that developed since the Talmud, mainly based on people not being learned or careful etc.
We don’t bake thick matzos anymore as indicated in the Gemara for that very reason. See O.C. 460:4“” it is very similar to the Jewish beliefs”
The only similarity would be the logic style relative to nowadays. (don’t forget the Talmud was written in the same era as some of the Greeks). but in essence there are major differences.
The Rambam’s Sefer haMorah is actually based on many Greek works in particular Aristotle – disputing many of their beliefs.
Pope Joan has bee debated among scholars if its a myth or not.
I doubt there is an English translation. However, Google :
“Seder Hadorot Plato mind over matter”. There footnote 279. You will find many sources on that topic and others as well.
Also, see what the Nishmas Chaim says regarding that (posted earlier) , and Aristotle. He writes that many of Plato’s philosophy is similar to our true Torah beliefs, the reason is as the above.
Speaking about “Black Holes” I am sure you can apply it in Kabalah as well…
Being that ___ has no clue what it is (thinks it is a Kfira term), nor is he familiar in any of these subjects so lets leave it at that: Everything is Kefira…unless proven otherwise.
“Plato was educated by Yermiah Hanovi.”
Thanks for the M”M. See what the Nishmas Chaim in says (2:10) regarding that and Aristotle.
“because Yankele Schmendrick with his BA who can’t tell a quark from a quasar doesn’t think it’s worth it?”
Exactly why it is not even worth the time arguing with one that has no inkling….His accomplishments and his works are there for all to see, i.e. anyone that has the minimum knowledge …
Perhaps the below Big Bang theorists are also ‘KOFRIM!:
מעשי ה
http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=22445&st=&pgnum=126
http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=22445&st=&pgnum=63
http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=22445&st=&pgnum=64תורת ה’ תמימה – Ramban
http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=30746&st=&pgnum=26
מלאכת מחשבת
http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=6160&st=&pgnum=44
Continue the next three pages.
http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=6160&st=&pgnum=102
(the last paragraph)Note – I am sure if you search you will find more. These are just a few that I remember for now…
Health,
“Joe – “Incorrect. Goyim are obligated to believe in Hashem, per the Sheva Mitzvos””“Relatively” speaking he is certainly worse…so no need to go any further.
Las,
The other days were only a creation of the same matter i.e.ד יסודות according to the above mentioned. I will post the sources later.Big bang has sources in many great meforshim including Rishonim, as Las has pointed out, the Rambam in his comments and his sefer Toras Hashem Temimah, more in Sefer מעשי ה and אברבנאל, they strongly support that shitah, that there was only one major creation of יש מאין…see מעשי ה how he explains it a couple of times in Parshas Breshis .
Joseph,
Gaon:
“Health, please explain how believing in “Spinoza’s god” is worse than denying the existence of God altogether?”
Of course its NOT – but in a way for a Jew (i.e. Einstein) it is…
How is it worse for a Jew to believe “Spinoza’s god” than for the Jew to believe G-d does not exist?”
“than for the Jew to believe G-d does not exist?”
Hawkins is NOT a Jew and that is what I was referring to. Einstein as a Jew has obligations, whereas Hawkins as a Non-Jew has non…he is not worse than all Ovdei A”Z or Greeks..
“Hawking contributed nothing useful to mankind. What emesdike חכמה do you attribute to Hawking?!”
Thanks for proving us how knowledgeable you are in the works of Science….
That’s a non-answer because you have no answer. Hawking’s contributed zero emesdike חכמה to mankind.
No comment. Do your own research.
“Hawking was much worse than Aristotle”
Hawking did NOT write books claiming kefira. Kefira statements were just made in interviews — as his personal belief ,as per Science.
This is hooey. Kefira is kefira whether he writes them in books or expresses them in mass media interviews for the public. Hawking was worse than Aristotle.”
There is obviously a huge diff when someone devoted his philosophy to Kefira and, had an impact through it ,championing his beliefs, than one merely stating his scientific beliefs that he has derived via his research as a scientists.
In any case, I was not comparing both as in a Darga level, the comparison was in regard of my original statement :
יש חכמה בגוים – תאמן and the Rambams approach to Chachmos Umos HaOlam.
And in my opinion I do not see the major diff, you can make the same argument against Aristotle – in reality BOTH should be respected.“your hatred of Aristotle and your embracing of Hawking is curious.”
Eli –
Read the above…(Asides, I think you are confusing Plato’s beliefs with Aristotle. See Sefer HaMorah Vol 2 13-21)” Maybe there’s something else you would like to share? Maybe you have a family member with ALS?”
Interesting, the only reason you can find someone not understanding the hatred toward Harkins is the above. Otherwise he had no qualifications to embrace…
(Perhaps there are indeed some who appreciated his scientific writings and his accomplishments…)
Pops,
1.) He really didn’t make statements “outside of his domain”
In a way it was. I agree he spoke from a scientific perspective, however, there is a entire philosophical aspect as well, which he should have taken in consideration ? (e.g. why are we here? why only this planet etc) . Religion was really never based on”scientific” evident it is “believing”…
We believe, as that is the way it was handed down to us by our forefathers, going back all the way to Moses and the revelation our forefathers witnessed at Mt Sinai.
2.) “The idea that religion is necessary for morality is ridiculous”
There are many strong arguments disputing that as well. I am speaking from a philosophical perspective, like “why do I really have to care about anyone else” each person is on his own, etc. Who decides what is correct or not?
“the least suffering and highest quality of life for their inhabitants” the same research will prove, these people are NOT happy with their life of materialism. So how do you define a “quality life” ? Research has proven there are many religious societies, who live much more of a meaningful and happy life, despite living a very simple lifestyle. What is the rate of suicide in these “highest quality of life” countries?
3.) Agreed.
4.) “Einstein was for all practical purposes and Atheist”
That is incorrect. Perhaps you can call him an Agnostic, but he never declared himself as an Atheist.I will quote his words:
“There is harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognise, yet there are people who say there is no God. But what really makes me angry is that they quote me to support such views.”
(The Expanded Quotable Einstein, Princeton University, page 214)“This firm belief in a superior mind that reveals itself in the world of experience, represents my conception of God.”
(Albert Einstein, Ideas and Opinions (New York: Random House 1954), p.255Joseph,
“Hawking was much worse than Aristotle”
Hawking did NOT write books claiming kefira. Kefira statements were just made in interviews — as his personal belief ,as per Science. Aristotle’s philosophy had much more of an impact that he will ever have, and so did Einstein’s Agnostic beliefs, have much more of an impact at the time.
All claimed Atheists are/were Atheists (which is most of EU) regardless of his beliefs. Thus I don’t see “evilness” in the picture.
It is simple – he was a brilliant scientists and knew little in regard to philosophy etc, and should have kept it like that. Same with A Einstein.
“Hawking contributed nothing useful to mankind. What emesdike חכמה do you attribute to Hawking?!”
Thanks for proving us how knowledgeable you are in the works of Science….
“Health, please explain how believing in “Spinoza’s god” is worse than denying the existence of God altogether?”
Of course its NOT – but in a way for a Jew (i.e. Einstein) it is…
” the vast majority of those who don’t eat gebrochs hold this minhag,”
How did you define “majority”? Did you take a poll? I know many who are only makpid “eating and nothing else. Which makes sense as it is only a far fetched chumrah.
Did you read the link I posted, quoting Kinyan Torah that all Poland were not makpid for children..
G,
That is a real far fetched Chumrah. If you read the link I posted, the Apter Rav known as the Mechaber ‘Ohev Yisrael’ allowed kids to eat Gebroks…Anyways, as it says each has their own minhagim..
J,
“Gaon, if you’d look hard enough you might find some things to admire about Hitler or Stalin too.”You really think its the same?
I guess the Rambam should have consulted with you when he admired AND quoted Aristotle.
I don’t really see the difference. Both are Kofrim. But the difference is, the Rambam admired Chachma and some here have no clue what to even consider to admire.
In a way Aristotle was much worse and so was Einstein…
You do NOT have to LOVE him but you can not deny his other qualities, hence I stand by my statement.
יש חכמה בגוים – תאמן does not mean Goyim who believe in Hashem…
The Rambam writes:
“ודע, כי הדברים אשר אומר אותם באלו הפרקים… הם עניינים מלוקטים מדברי החכמים … ומדברי הפילוסופים גם כן, ומחיבורי הרבה בני אדם
. ושמע האמת ממי שאמרה”(‘שמונה פרקים – הקדמ)
“Gaon, is there a relationship between the work allowed on yom tov with the guarding of matzos as the Yerushalmi Betza 8:2 as discussed above?
“But if learn that yom tov you allowed to do work for food needs from cutting that the watching of the matzos would also be from cutting.”I am not sure that is pshat in Tosfos – according to the Yerushalmi there is a pasuk and Tosfos just says pshat when…and then says another limud. See the very end. Also see the gemorah and Rashi in Pesachim 40A בצקות של נכרים it will depend in all shitos and the Yerushalmi can go by a diff shitah regarding Shimur Lishmah.
Also, see the Aruch Hashulchan (link below) who explains the shitos and has a total diff take on the sugya, he holds (see S 20) that according to the Rambam you need Shimur for all 7 days.
“The sefer Mishneh Sochir from Rabbi Yisochor Teichtal hy”d explains the meaning in the stanza with the gemora Megila 15:2 that Haman’s whole wealth was engraved on his heart. So when he was hung, his whole wealth was hung with him.”
FYI – As I stated earlier, I looked up the Yalkut Ma’am Loaz and he brings this very pshat in the name of Rabeinu Dovid HaNagid (ben R Avrohom ben haRambam)…
“Imagine if Hawking spent his life with no physical or verbal limitation”
I disagree – a HUGE part of his celebrity status was NOT his brilliance, rather it was the fact of his situation.
Although he was brilliant, he should have stuck to physics and out of politics and religion.
In any case, there was plenty what to admire about him… Im Yesh Chachmah B’Goyim Tamin..
G,
“Because according to their minhag you can’t wet matza in the first 7 days of pesach.”
The mainstream minhag i think is to be machmir not to eat it but you can still keep the mixing. I think it gets cooked before shabbos …
See below link that many have the minhag to allow children to eat Gebroks.
http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=13595&st=&pgnum=145Joseph,
If that is the case then Kitniyot is indeed problem, unless he lives in Israel and follows Rabbi’s like R David Bar-Hayim who permit it…Reminds me, a Sphardi once told me regarding eating Kitniyot, “if you want to eat Kitniyot like us then you need to get up the entire Elul for Selichot…you can’t have both.
isa,
On top of that the Pri”C is also chumarah as per the Noda beYehuda. See the very SHA”T the N”B stating that even on the Matzos of the first days the minhag was to use non-shmurah
ZD,
As per the Noda Beyhudah and many others if you can not afford it – you can certainly eat it on the rest of the days and no need to say children..
In my opinion, the flour they use could very much be much better than the flour (Kemach Min HaShuk) the N”B and the Pri”C is referring to (if it has a good hechsher)…
Jos/ias
“However, the Shaarei Teshuva in Siman 453 states outright YEISH NOHAGIN SHEKOL HAMATZA SHEHOICHEL B’PESACH TIHIYEH MEYCHITIM SHEHMURIM MISHAS KETZIRAH.
http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14169&st=&pgnum=94
The very SHA”T clearly says – during the rest of the days – is a chumrah and Prishas that according to many it does not even require Haterah if one wishes to eat non-shmurah.
http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14169&st=&pgnum=96
In any case, if one can not afford (or is tight budget) he can certainly no doubt give it to the kids.
less,
“Can anyone prove that today’s razor thin matzos have kernels of unbakec flour that can rise? Has anyome seem a proven case”Actually there was a case a couple of years ago they put in Ads all over, about Matzohs that was imported from Ukraine (I think) that had flour on top and that all should be careful not to gebruck..(Note -although that too I recall is sort of a chumrah as well, it is only the flour from inside that we are afraid of..the one on top once its baked is not the same issue.)
See below link for an excellent write up how it came about etc.
http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=13595&st=&pgnum=134
J,
“takah, your gebroks and mishing can be forgiven. But not your kitniyos.”How do you know he/she is not Sephardi?
“Rav Yaakov Kaminetzky didn’t eat gebroks.”
Joseph,
You know why – you aware of the story behind …?“שמרתם את המצות is a פסוק”
The above pertains ONLY to the Matzos you are Yotzei, otherwise CT has a good point it is a Chumrah.
Personally, I think people are just confusing the first days with all the rest.
Especially with not eating Machine Matzos, unless you are from the ones that see it as Chametz, (as per Devrei Chaim of Sanz), otherwise the main conflict (if you read thru the Teshuvos) on Machine Matzos was whether you can be Yotzei the Lishmah etc as per the Mitzvah.“Just to elaborate on what laskern wrote earlier. The Shitas HaGr”a is that Matza, besides for the seder night/s, is a mitzva kiyumis”
The GR”A is not like Shu”A and all other rishonim. (There is a Chazkuny that upholds so). In any case, you can eat ONE kezayis each day and you are fine. The rest can be from the above especially for kids…
BP – “In Europe most people ate non Shmurah Matzah (except for the sedorim). I heard from someone old enough to remember that in Munkatch there were 7 Matzah Bakeries
See below informative link from the Munkatcher how it was done in his times (and the shitas haGR”A). Many didn’t eat any Matzos all the rest of the days:
http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=4751&st=&pgnum=224
Also, see Sdei Chemed regarding eating Matzoh as per shitas haGR”A – he quotes a minhag (i.e. Am Haratzos) some had to recite a bracha all seven days
http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14155&st=&pgnum=403
Wizard,
” how many shittos can you provide a citation/maare makom to that disagrees with Rav Dessler zt’l”This form and thread is beyond the scope of this sensitive subject However, lets put it like this, Rav Dessler’s shitah (and his Son in law) is a new concept and Chidush – something that has historically not been said until recently. Anyone a bit familiar with the subject will tell you the same . There were major differences in the Yesodos of Kabalah. ( Tzimzum etc. though, nothing that pertains to us simple folks – all the rest are shtusim)
(I recall the Rebbe of Chabad also wrote something like it regarding The Nefesh haChaim and the Tanya regrading ‘Tzimzum’ – ..? ) .
If you want to know a bit more see the following link regarding the Nefesh HaChaim and the Ba’al HaTanya:
http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=47644&st=&pgnum=447
Las,
Generally speaking, Rav Desslers’ ZTL views are known, he believed that there was really no great differences between Chasiddim and the GR”A . Most argue on that fact, including the ones that have a Mesorah directly to Rav Chaim of Volozhin…
“I think the litvishe and chasidim argue on עת לעשות לה הפרו תורתך, make time when the Torah will be disrupted”
Which “chassidim” are you referring to? And which “Litvaks” are you referring to?
I can quote you from either of the sides the other way around..
The term of Chasid and Misnaged these days are just used as an identification, there are no true original Yesodos differences anymore…
Las, “Perhaps you meant אחרי רבים להטות ….. even though the רבים occasionally is wrong also,”
In terms of the Talmud there is no “wrong” as per the Gemorah in Eruvin 13b and Gittin :
שלוש שנים נחלקו בית שמאי ובית הלל. הללו אומרים הלכה כמותינו, והללו אומרים הלכה כמותינו. יצאה בת קול ואמרה: אלו ואלו דברי אלוהים חיים הן, והלכה כבית הלל. וכי מאחר שאלו ואלו דברי אלוהים חיים – מפני מה זכו בית הלל לקבוע הלכה כמותן? מפני שנוחין ועלובין היו, ושונין דבריהן ודברי בית
שמאי. ולא עוד, אלא שמקדימין דברי בית שמאי לדבריהן”See the Ritva there, explaining the obvious question – how is it possible that BOTH can be true, it is either Tuma or Tahor/Muttar/Asser?
He explains that Hashem had originally presented Moshe Rabenu each Halacha with two sides of the argument (actually 49 reasons to each side) and, that the actual psak will be up to each generation’s Chachmei hador. Thus in essence, they are both Toras emes given by Hashem
Also, see Rashi in Kesuvos 57a:
רש”י ד”ה הא קמ”ל-
“אבל כי פליגי תרי אמוראי בדין או באיסור והיתר כל חד אמר הכי מיסתבר טעמא אין כאן שקר כל חד וחד סברא דידיה קאמר מר יהיב טעמא להיתירא ומר יהיב טעמא לאיסורא מר מדמי מילתא למילתא הכי ומר מדמי ליה בעניינא אחרינא ואיכא למימר אלו ואלו דברי אלהים חיים הם זימנין דשייך האי טעמא וזימנין דשייך האי טעמא שהטעם מתהפך לפי שינוי הדברים בשינוי מועט.”http://www.hebrewbooks.org/shas.aspx?mesechta=15&daf=57&format=pdf
I recall the Marshal in Yam Shel Shlomo writing about it in length, in his introduction to Masechet Chulin or Baba Kama..
“Yeshivos aren’t babysitting services. That’s what mommies do.”
As usual Joseph is out of touch with reality. The average Charedi home needs another income (i.e. Mommy) just to pay the tuition bills.
If they would to deduct from the tuition every time they need to stay home from work, due to the inconsideration from the School, they would be singing a diff song…Saba,
“Perhaps I am missing something here and I am new here so maybe I need orientation.”
There are no “groups” here. Everyone is entitled to their opinion as long as its with respect etc I think the Mods will let it through.
As for the “relevance of zaken mamreh” Zaken mamreh proves you can be a Talmid Chacham and still go against the Torah.
Many true Gadolim have questioned Rav Tendler’s actions and the part of Igros Moshe reliability, these are not just “rumors” no one here is speaking on their own terms. There is nothing wrong with knowing if one can rely on that volume or not.
agutyar, DY
As DY has pointed out, there is no concrete proof that it ever occurred. (I am not even so sure how much Rav Aaron had with Rav Moshe prior to arriving in America.- If anything it was more likely that either Rav E Silver or Rav A Kalmanovitz was involved with Rav Araron Kotlers arrival).
However, there was the famous Goral haGra performed by Rav Aryeh Levin in Jerusalem by the request of Rav Tzvi Pesach Frank to identify the burial spots of 12 kedoshim who died in 1948 war. Rav Frank relied on it and buried them accordingly.
Just google ר’ אריה לוין גורל הגר”א’ for all the details.
Also, see Rav Shlomo Klugers Psak regarding when we can perform Goral and when not.
http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=1354&st=&pgnum=28&hilite=
Sabba,
“Is it open season on calling Talmidei Chachamim dishonest?”
Are you disputing the ‘forgeries’ as a fact?
For if he did commit that then he has no status of a Talmid Chacham and deserves to be denounced.
NOTE – A זקן ממרא was a Talmid Chacham as well…
Las, all that is defined by the very fact of the differences of Moshe RA”H having Navuah in a level of אספקלריא המאירה whereas all Nevuim not. Non of these methods surpass Nevuah…
“Labeling something as avodah zarah is pretty serious, something that needs a posek or a talmid chacham”
No one (I hope so) is Labeling people here as Ovdei A”Z, rather its these acts that have concepts of AZ – these very methods have a ריח של ע”ז, and goes against some foundations of Yidishkeit. As for the very people committing them, they have been denounced by their very fellow Anti-Mashiachist’s as well. We are not the first ones here…However, I believe most of them are brainwashed from birth and no need to go to extreme saying:
“there are groups whose shchita I do not eat and whose wine I do not drink.”
On the contrary, Rav Shach ZT”L did label them as Kefirah. Almost every posek disagreed with him incl. Rav SZ Auerbach ZTL.
“The Rambam adds the words בבהילו יצאנו ממצרים before the passage הא לחמא עניא with swiftness did
we leave Mitzraim. What does the Rambam accomplish with this addition? ”The simple reason is that it is really part of Yachatz (so is the passage הא לחמא עניא see Rishonim Kol Bo etc.) and is a reason why it is called Lechem Oni (based on the verse of Ki Bechifozon…).. see the Hagadah of Rabenu Rav Avrohom Ben HaRambam.
Las,
Non of these are spoon fed information, not the או”ת nor the Goral haGra, or even Nevuah, all need to be interpreted by the recipient. The only one who saw all with a clear vision was Moshe Rabenu known as אספקלריא המאירה…Nev,
גורל הגר””א is by far just a random flip. Nor can it be done by a simple person, officially you need to have obtained somewhat the level of Ruach haKodesh. I think Rav Tzvi Pesach Frank relied once on Rav Aryeh Levin’s Goral.
In any case, that is precisely the point, they are giving the Rebbes letters the same status as כביכול the word of hashem. I have no Taayne it basically speaks on it’s own. It indicates how far this has taken the Moshiach cult.
Think about it, no one ever suggest using a Zohar or even a Tanya for any of those, this is a new invention.
Anyone that thinks it’s the same as just doing the Goral haGra needs to rethink what the very issue at hand is.
Las,
So it is a Rishon (note – some Piyutim are from the times of the Talmud like haKalir – I recall Tosfos using a Piyut leHalacha) and can very well be he does not go with the Rashba IF pshat is like the above..“Neviim, Urim Vetumim, Chalomos, Psok Li Psukecha, Goralos”
Notice – all these were done with the highest level of Torah or sort of NeVuah. The words of G-D i.e. Torah or Neviim Kesuvim. I never heard one opening even a Gemorah.
“Goralos” if you are referring to Goral Ha’Gra that is done with a Chumash as well…