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ToRebYidd22
“Modern society views a woman’s weight as almost the single determining factor of her value as a person”…..
Perhaps you live in an alternative society…..yes, weight and looks are frequently a factor in how women are viewed… but “the single most important”…not where I live and sorry things have gotten so bad in your misogynistic neighborhood. The quality of her chulent and the sechel of her husband are considerably more important among members of my tzibur
Just a reminder that the inyan of tzinius is relevant for BOTH men and women although 99% of the focus seems to be just on women….How we act, how we talk and how we treat others are all a part of tzinius which doesn’t mean to be “modest” so much as to act with propriety and dignity..men are obligated to avoid dress or behavior that attracts inappropriate attention to them or otherwise would lead to inappropriate thoughts and visuals among members of both genders they encounter.
Chazal bring down that tzinius applies to men’s clothing along with women’s lvush…e.g.•In Yoma (35b), Rav Elazar’s chevrah would not permit him to wear a finely-woven bekishe because it was too sheer and his form was visible through the translucent material;
•In Shabbos (114a), clothes are referred to as, ” the things that honor a person” and chazal bring down that it’s considered shameful for a talmid chacham to wear stained or patched clothing, as such are beneath his dignity (Note: by that standard the lvush worn by kolel yungerleit in many kollels is a massive “tzinius” issue). Likewise a neatly kept beard is fine but its not meant to look like a habitat for endangered species…
•Also iinShabbos, (113a), we are told that it is unseemly for a person to be overly concerned with fashion, except in the case of special lvush for Shabbos when such a fashion sense is an appropriate way of showing kavod for Shabbos kodeshBottom line: (as the Dems would say) Stop the war on women (at least in relation to clothing and hairstyles)
There are a variety of new soy-based proteins that look and taste nearly exactly like real meat but w/o all the fat and cholesterol that are sadly major factors in the obesity and cardiac issues afflicting many in the frum tzibur. I you only eat chulent on rare occasions (e.g. visiting family or friends in those areas where chulent is still popular), than its no big deal to eat the “real thing” once in a while. However, if your family minhag is to have some form of chulent every Shabbos/yom tov, than think seriously about the alternative in the context of “u’shamarem es nafshosechem”….There are peer-reviewed studies showing that regular ingestion of fatty, salty chulent will take years off your life
To a pushatayi yid…..
The art of generalization is to avoid statements which subsume facts not widely agreed upon and to create a generic stereotype wherein the exceptions swallow the rule of general applicability. Does that make sense??
Its difficult to generalize but Chassideshe hashgachos are generally considered the “gold standard” of kashruth and are usually also subject to much more scrutiny and challenge by their clientele than the national commercial lines; Just because a hashgacha is labled “chassidish” does not always mean it is governed by a Chassidic Rav; Because of its premium reputation, the term has been distorted on occasion, to includes a big part of Litvish world. Overall its a general term for hashgachos that impose more strict standards, churahs and gedarim but it obviously is the quality of .their mashgichim, shochtim, etc. are yirai shamayim, talmedei chachamim and have very extensive training in all technical matters of kashruth. Most of the larger chassideshe hashgachos require frequent “continuing education” and offer on-site and centralized programs to assure that their mashgichim etc. are updated on all the newest information. Of course, there are also some other hashgachos (e.g. Eidah in EY) but those who are machmir on kashruth more often than not prefer a chassideshe hashgacha. Most of the larger chassidus have their own hashgachos which may vary slightly in certain areas of focus but not in their overall adherence to the highest quality standards. Some of the smaller “boutique” Chassideshe hashgachos may team with larger national lines and overlay their own standards on certain issues (e.g. chalav yisroel, etc). No one ever went wrong with reliance on a top of the line Chassideshe hashgacha.
There is no objective standard by which one can judge a “good yeshiva”….just like hashgacha, where many consider only chassideshe hashgachos as “good enough” for someone who is machmir on kashrus, the are also some good litvish hashgachos. The “greatness” of a yeshiva is defined by its rabbonim and yungerleit…not by some artificial label of the affiliations of those rabbonim…
To Avram in MD
Perhaps you should wake up and smell the Chulent….there has been a slow migration of frum families west from the silver spring/wheaton areas over towards Connecticut/Knowles/Howard Avenues in the past several years…most importantly, there has been a regular minyan meeting in one of the small buildings off Antique Row on Howard Avenue since February…..
Not sure what level your game is at? If you are a scratch golfer and looking for a challenging course with narrow fairways, etc. than the Enegineers Country Club in Roslyn would be a good choice….its clearly a Jewish Club and can arrange for kosher meals. The Great Bay Club a bit further out on the island is more of a resort style course with wider fairways and less challenging greens.
After reading 150+ postings on this issue, I still come down on the side of those who believe that there are no legitimate reasons under Halacha or practicality that women cannot function as first responders other then gender bias or simple ignorance. Nationally, nearly half of new hires by the nation’s leading first responder paramedic and medical response teams are women. With proper training, women can do the job as well or better than men. I’m not talking about those responsible for rescuing vicitims from a crushed car or carrying the victim down three flights of stairs….just those providing emergency medical care.
My comment was written from a real world perspective….right now, EY is “all about” protecting the lives of its citizens ….this is NOT an issue of hishtadlus and bitachon….this is about dealing with an Amalek that is coming after us and we must respond with a force and might that doesn’t have the luxury of time outs for debate over the nuances of Halacha. This is pikuach nefesh, not some abstract existential threat analysis.
After Friday’s terrorist attack, all this nareshkeit about a “haalachic army” seems both absurd and irrelevant. An army for EY has only ONE purpose…to kill our enemies and keep us from being killed….the army will do WHATEVER it takes to get this done w/o worrying about the hashgacha in the mess hall, taking time out of battle for davening or worrying about “kol isha” if a woman chayal sings to herself in the foxhole….I understand that some of the threads are meant to be intellectually challenging or humorous but somehow, this one seems neither in the context of recent events.
The Trumpkopf-in-Chief contradicts himself mid-sentence and claims he never said what we just heard him say. He tweets claims even his own staff ridicule off camera. His talking head surrogates on TV try to excuse his apparent detachment from reality with claims that he is “not a typical politicians”, “is talking in allegorical terms”, speaks in codewords that only other Trumpkopfs can understand, etc. In short, when the President makes CNN look like the paradigm of accuracy and consistency, we should look out on Eastern Parkway and see if the ususal suspects running up and down the street with yellow flags, are instead riding down the median strip on a white donkey (or elephant to avoid partisanship).
Chazal bring down that it is always better when the Rav Hamachshir’s name on a product label or in the Tadudah for a restaurant or market, is not followed by Z’TL….. This is not meant to be humorous since too many time we see a Kashruth endorsement where the name provided fir the supervisory mashgiach is that of a Rav who was niftar sometimes months or even years earlier.
To ChaimC:
You say several times you are “crying”…..well I’m sorry you are so sad but the world has never been “fair” and may not be until z’man moishiach. The school is NOT obligated to find a new school for this girl…that is the parents’ responsibility. If no school in Lakewood will accept her, perhaps they need to look in the mirror and try a bit of critical self-examination as to whether there is something they can do to better conform with the schools’ requirements. If the answer is no and they still prefer to send their daughter to a yeshiva rather than a public school (which is probably not an option) than perhaps relocate to another community more accepting of their hashkafah or consider home-schooling as have thousands of frum parents.
There are such an infinite number of chumrahs and kallas in relation to hilchos kashrus that you will find substantial disagreement even among those who are considered machmir on just about everything else. Much of this has to do with regional/cultural preferences and minhagim dating back to the alte heim, where frequently the original rationale or basis for a particularly odd practice has been lost. I cannot think of another area of Halacha where the admonition of following the guidance of your local rav/posek is crucial. Many of us believe that absent such guidance, you can never go wrong with a top of the line chassideshe hashgacha (the “gold standard of kashrus”) although some might argue that there are fine Litvish hashgachos as well.
to Lacissrama:
No one is denigrating our chachamim . What I’m saying is obvious. their limud torah may provide some superficial knowledge about bodily functions and healing but they cannot be expert enough to advise on highly complex medical issues the knowledge of which comes from years of secular study and clinical/diagnostic experience. Very, very few have had the opportunity to gain that knowledge and certainly not in a beis medrash. that in no way takes away from their gadlus in matters of torah learning. The two are not comparable.
The doctors on TV also “know” something about medicine but I’m not sure I’d want them advising on my kidney stones any more than a modern-day incarnation of the Chazon Ish…..its one thing for a Rav Tendler, shlita, to opine on bioethics, but I don’t expect to see him in the operating room or a diagnostic clinic.
As noted by others in this post (and others) there is a vast difference in the quality of what you call the “gemorah kuppes” populating our yeshivos and kollels. While there are unquestionably a limited number of intellectual giants shteiging who would likely be successful “quants” in any financial trading endeavor (once they mastered some basic computer skills) the much larger number of shteigers are lesser lights who are unlikely to be successful in such investment endeavors. There is a vast difference in parsing the nuances of “shor she’nagach shor” versus solving multivariate differential equations to value a complex derivative product. A more realistic and useful model would be simply to provide basic computer coding skills or some other less intellectually challenging vocational training so all of these fine young men can simply function in the real world outside of kollel and earn a basic paranassah for their families. Lets stop making limud torah and earning a parnassah mutually exclusive life pathways (except of course if you have been blessed with a hedge fund manager as a father-in-law)
Again…I reiterate that too many here have an idealized view of what are the obligations of a yeshiva in today’s world. Its not what they SHOULD be doing, its what they can and are doing within the limits of their resources and how they are organized. Most importantly, they are NOT holding themselves out as educators of last resort who will take in ANY student. From a legal perspective, they are no different from a private college or university where we read several times a month that offers of admission (typically sent via email) were extended in error and subsequently withdrawn . Sometimes they explain the error; most of the time they simply say “Sorry…we screwed up without any explanation and rescind the offer as they are legally entitled to do). This Yeshiva in Lakewood MAY HAVE behaved unfairly to the student but unless they entered into some contractual obligation, they can normally ask the student to leave at ANY time and with no reason.
To Daas Yochid.
You are sadly uninformed…..the rate of divorce in the frum community is rising according to the JSWA statistics (I believe of 2014 or 2013 vintage)……also, they noted, albeit anecdotally, that there are large numbers of frum couples that stay married because they don’t believe that divorce is an option for social/economic reasons and/or the virtual impossibility in some frum communities of remarriage. I personally am not sure that any of these surveys is really reliable but these absurd comparisons to “yenem” are really inappropriate. Our shidduch structures and protocols do not provide for a more natural process of allowing young men and women to explore their options in choosing a lifetime partner to build a bayis neaman b’yisroel.
While we cannot force people to move, there are regular articles and ads here and other frum websites about the many smaller to medium size communities outside of the NY/NJ areas that offer great opportunities for young Jewish couples to move and raise a family. They have good schools, affordable housing, great recreational opportunities and growing economies. While there are some couples who are so hung up on being close to their parents and inlaws, they would rather live in a crowded hovel, put up with the noise, pollution and crowding of NYC, pay ridiculous amounts for tuition and otherwise live an inferior quality of life to be able to be around families. They fail to understand their are airplanes, trains, cars etc. to visit when you want.
How about stop talking about a phony “shidduch crises” , stop making young women feel like “damaged goods” if they are not married by 18 or 19 yo and want to take a few years to pursue a graduate degree and career, stop creating phony and artificial environments where singles feel pressured to “connect” with ANYONE. Most importantly, start encouraging our young men and women to meet under normal circumstances with due deference to halacha and yiddeshe values, but otherwide engage in normal introductions, connectrions and dating the same way as the large percentage of people do.
If we were to sue those issuing “fake news” than we would probably begin in the Oval Office and adjoining Press Room downstairs in the East Wing. For example, after Trumpkopf Jr. issues emails explicitly stating that the purpose of the proposed meeting was to obtain “dirt’ on HRC, and Trumpkopf Jr. (no mention whatsoever of yasomim) goes on Hannity and says in retrospect such an opposition research kumzits with the Russians was bad idea, and then early Yesterday AM the Trumpkopf -in-Chief Tweets that the meeting with the Russians on “opposition research” was just politics as usual, SEAN SPICER gives his daily press briefing off-camera where he says the only purpose of the meeting was to discuss U.S. policies that had resulted in a crackdown on adoption of Russian orphans. His obvious lie or misstatement (assuming he has been on Mars the prior week) was so breathtaking none of the reporters present even bothered to follow up. Its this daily non-stop barrage of mindless and constantly changing reality that would be the subject of the first legal action to stop “fake” news at its source. While one might attribute some of this confusion to The Trumpkopf’s inability to articulate a complete English sentence, sadly, the same cannot be said of his Staff. Sadly, the Dems have their own core of mindless political hacks calling such meetings “treason” and other nareshkeit but in truth, none compare to the current bunch of clowns at 1600 Pennsylvania ave.
As many posters have correctly noted, there isn’t sufficient information provided to offer anything more than a general sense of grief for the loss of an innocent yiddeshe neshama, whatever the circumstances. We do not know the relative contributions of any personal psychiatric disorders, the particular event involving the school, prior disciplinary events in other schools, the relationship with parents and family etc. ALL of which likey were a contributing factor to some degree. The highly competitive Lakewood yeshiva/beis Yaakov admissions process is really not that different from those in other frum communities and indeed, is probably less stressful than admissions have become to secular private schools in the NYC metropolitan area. Yeshivos are a business in a highly competitive market and must operate to at least break even and earn a profit. They cannot afford to antagonize their customer base any more so than other businesses absent some fundamental issue of ethics or borderline illegality. If this girl was mamash admitted without the proper vetting to the yeshiva’s standards or would have resulted in conflict and brogias with the school’s existing student base and families, they were within their rights to reverse an admissions decision. They may not have handled it well, but thats a separate issue. If we want to “socialize” yeshiva education just like the public school systems and create a network of yeshivos that MUST accept all students without regard to their academic credentials, parents yichus or ability to pay, or minor disciplinary issues in other schools, than we need to have mosdos that collect and distribute the funds and have sufficient administrative expertise to manage such an open enrollment program. I hear many heilege rabbonim and askanim crying gevalt about boys and girls who cannot find a school but don’t see many of them doing much to solve the problem.
Don’t make yourself crazy worrying that a certain brand of casual shoes are more of a tzinius concern than others….crocs are common sense shoes that don’t call attention as much as some bright colored fashionista heels and pumps that I see all over BP and Willy on Shabbos (not that I spend shabbosim wandering around BP and Willy secretively focusing on women’s feet).
Obviously, there are frum doctors along with frum members of just about every other profession except rodeo cowboys, shochtim in a treife shlachthois and galachim.
The question of pet ownership has been debated for decades in frum journals, forums etc. and the majority opinion is that there is no issur under Halacha but simply a question of common sense and priorities. Its a stupid analogy to say that since no one can point to any gadol hador walking a dog or feeding his goldfish, therefore its per se assur. If one can afford a pet, has the space to give it a good lifestyle and it doesn’t limit one’s observance of other mitzvos, no reason why not and to some it may actual help them with stress relief and concentration for learning.
To Meno:
When it smells like the dorm at the Yeshiva on the day before bein hazmanim….
I think you have inadvertently confused an “R” with a “K”. The OK (sometimes called the “Circle K” is one of the most highly respected commercial hashgachos headed by Rav Donald Levy, Shlita. While perhaps not at the gold standard level of some smaller Chasideshe hashgachos, it is still more than adequate for the needs of the poishete yid who want to adhere to the laws of kashruth.
Most of the bungalow colonies have been demolished or taken over by various chassidus for camps or summer gathering points for subsets of their tzibur. While a few have been renovated, most are in a really sad state of disrepair and are certainly not “luxury vacation villas” which is how I saw one particular place I know in Kiamesha Lake advertised. I think the younger generation of frum yidden is not as interested in packing up the family at the end of June and running off to the “mountains” and instead have discovered that NYC is actually a fun place in the summer when everyone else has run off to the Hamdens on weekends. The NYS Thruway staff have informally indicated that the turnout at the Thursday night minyanim at the rest stop just over the Bridge are slightly smaller this year than in past years, not that is a reliable indicator.
Fox subsequently clarified that his hashgacha may not have been from Badatz as originally claimed and there is an open question about a missing plumba. Both matters have been referred to the Special Counsel, Reb Moeller for a din torah
What is the bottom line after reviewing this excellent sequence of postings.
1. More emphasis is needed on initial screening of rebbeim hired for teaching positions in our yeshivos.
2. There needs to be a separate track for yungerleit pursuing semicha who want to teach so that they are required to take special course in educational methods and techniques and demonstrate proficiency in the nuts and bolts of preparing lesson plans, etc. This is as important as their mastery of t’nach, Talmud, meforshim, etc.
3. Training programs should be established for rebbeim already in the system to provide some opportunity to improve their teaching skills.
4. Decisions on termination of non-performing rebbeim should be made on a timely basis and not deferred over and over again.
5. While some centralized “post-termination” job counseling and financial assistance program for those rebbeim who are not cut out for teaching would be ideal, I’m not aware of how such a program would be realistically be administered or funded given how decentralized and fragmented our yeshivos and mosdos are.
To CT Lawyer:
The starting salaries for all the major NYC firms this year (for 2L offers extended after last year’s summer associate offers were all north of $163K plus bonuses of $15k for those billing 2K hours. First tier investment banks were generally north of $150 for MBAs. You are correct that these are for top firms but those are the options that a first tier yeshiva bochur with a good analytic mind is foregoing by torah study. As you correctly note, these numbers may seem unrealistic and probably irrelevant for most kollel yungerleit going into chinuch but that is a sacrifice they willingly make. The problem of low market valuation for educators is society-wide and not limited to the frum tzibur. We read here on YWN a while back a story about how many NYC sanitation workers are routinely earning over $100,000 year with overtime while teachers are earning barely half that much.Most newly graduated “frum” rabbonim are not considered “professionals” in the way that most lawyers, MBAs, etc are from a compensation perspective. Newly graduated lawyers and MBAs earns upwards of $150,000/yr right out of school. Most secular teachers with a masters degree in education can expect to earn $45,000-$50,000/yr out of school in any large city school system. A newly minted “rav” having just left yeshiva cannot expect to earn anywhere near these amounts unless he is a superstar of major proportions in demand from the top yeshivos with wealthy supporters who fund such hires.
The varbeshe section of the plaza in front of the kosel always seems to have plenty of room for davening…no need to wander off to Robinson’s Arch area off to the side of the upper plaza (even though I’m told the Ebeshter will listen to your teffilos from Bergen Mall or wherever you are if you speak to him with kavanah).
To M:
While you are in a davening mood, please put in a good word with the Ebeshter for the hard-working and long-suffering taxpayers of New York and New Jersey whose taxes are being stolen every day by welfare cheats. They are the real victims here but I don’t see anyone organizing a “chesded fund” on their behalf.Maybe we have a terminology problem here. Some posters suggest the issue is “age discrimination” while others say that its somehow “heartless” to fire an older rav who displays (over time) poor teaching skills as determined by the school’s administrators. The issue is one of competence, not age. Some of the best teachers in many yeshivos are the oldest rabbonim. Age is not a predictor of teaching skills. Firing them because they are the highest paid (as a result of age) is illegal under civil law. Not firing them even after becoming aware of their incompetence means the administrators are incompetent.
So called “burnout” is not the primary reason that some rabbonim are not effective in chinuch (even if they are otherwise talmedei chachamim and ehrliche yidden). Most yeshivos do not have a robust pre-hiring program to evaluate the educational skills of prospective teachers and in most cases, rely upon referrals to the rosh yeshiva or cursory trial shiruim. While it may sound a bit ruthless to weed out the lower performing rabbonim at the earliest possible time and not carry them over from year to year or allow them to migrate from one yeshiva to another, such a merit-based review and removal program is critical for out yinglach to succeed. While some kids will succeed even with bad teachers, the majority need the best and most talented rabbonim we can provide. As I’ve said above, don’t make yeshivos into employers of last resort for rabbonim that no one else wants to employ.
To Daas Yochid:
What evidence do you have that failure to provide lifetime tenure to non-performing rabbonim in chinuch will jeopardize the future supply of rabbonim willing to pursue a career in chinuch. One hears the same argument with respect to public service employment, etc. I would suggest that imposing some market discipline would benefit the market, since right now, there are too many rabbonim coming out of yeshivot who surpress the salary of teachers. If the supply curves bends down relative to a fixed or growing demand curve, wages will rise and thereby attract more highly qualified yungerleit receiving semicah to pursue a career in chinuch. Our schools are not designed, nor should they be asked, to function as employers of last resort for rabbonim lacking teaching skills.
Appologies to the MOD for misstating his/her concern….I think the common concern here, focusing on different aspects of the original posting, is that before donating funds to ANY self-proclaimed personal cause or charity, there should be some independent verification of the facts or endorsement of the fundraising effort by a respected Rav or independent body with knowledge of the facts. Sadly, we here about way too many fraudulent fundraising efforts where there is no accountability.
In just about every case of this type, those indicted and chargde continue to profess their “innocence’ until the evidence is presented at trial and/or they negotiate a plea agreement with the prosecution. These types of cases have among the highest conviction rates of any types of felony cases. As the moderator above correctly notes, one cannot rely upon the representation in a website posting as the basis for contradicting the facts in a sworn statement supporting the indictment. Even a Rav would first have a local lawyer or accountant review the facts of the case before lending his name to any fundraising effort. Rather than encouraging her friends here in the CR, this woman should first get some independent party confirm her version of why she was incorrectly charged.
That is not what I meant. I simply meant that unless verified by The Chesed Fund, there is no way to be certain where the money is going.
Joseph’s mindless repetition is that simply because she claims to be frum we should unconditionally support her regardless of the merits and w/o any further factfinding or input from a knowledgeable rov or posek. Says more about Joseph than anyting we could say about either of the two parties in this domestic disputre.
To Joseph:
You say that “Becoming a “gadol” is not just for the brightest…”Well, its clear that I am living proof of your comment but that also makes my point. It is relatively easy to determine after a modest amount of time which of the guys shteiging in the beis medrash are “gadol” material and especially which ones have more than a .0001 percent likelihood of becoming a “gadol hador”. Its unfair to both baalei tzadakah and the bochur himself to use scarce resources for someone in his mid-20s to be painfully trying to understand the complexities of “shor sh’nagach shor”. In some utopian society with unlimited resources, maybe…but in the real world, have everyone find some vocation in which they can excel and move on from that in which they cannot.
There is something to be said about keeping the kids closer to home. While there are some exceptional mashgichim ruchani/dorm counselors at out-of-town yeshivos, there are things only a parent would be tuned in to that might provide indicators of emotional and physical issues. LowerTuition above made some great points about what to look for on home visits and thats probably great for really shartke bochurim but not for those who might be prone to get into trouble without real-time monitoring.
Joseph Says:
“Being a Kollel man should not have anything to do with learning ability. Someone who is a poor learner but has a great desire to learn Torah full time has just as much right to be a Kollel man as the best learner in Brisk. ”
If you are a “poor learner” and also poor from a financial perspective, its probably a good idea to move yourself from behind a shtender and into the workforce. Neither the taxpayers of NY/NJ nor the generous askanim who support worth mosdos have any obligation to support those who are not cut out for learning and are too lazy to get a job. Once you find employment and can support your family, than perhaps its appropriate to find a part-time chavrusah who can learn with you at your level (whatever that might be). There are several very good website that are designed exactly for the purpose of matching part time learning partners who have similar skills and interests. Some provide for meeting at some local shul/beis medrash and others create “virtual” learning chavrusahs online. Either way though, don’t become a burden on the taxpayers or wastefully suck up the limited tzadakah available.
For many bnai torah, the sheer size and complexity of the BMG network precludes the opportunity to enter into a personal relationship with a Rav/mentor and is simply overwhelming. It works for some but not others. Also, the BMG/Lakewood dependency culture is problematic for many families who want their children to have the opportunity to study in kollel for a few years but ultimately move on to a normal family life with one or both parents working for a parnassah while continuing torah study at some level.
There are many dedicated learners who are fortunate to have affluent parents and/or in-laws or a wife who has a professional career who can provide the resources to support a family in comfort. However, in the absence of those options, one presumes that those choosing to learn full-time have developed a plan or strategy for economic sustenance beyond “the Ebeshter will provide” or “the taxpayers of NY/NJ have an obligation to support my wife and family”.
The point that no one has addressed is why it is impossible for these bochurim to get basic secular education (writing, mathematics, computer etc.) training and skills so if they decide at some point to get their families off welfare and handouts, they have a reasonable opportunity to find employment (part or full time). Its this mindless refusal to consider any secular training that defies logic, even if one wishes to pursue limudei torah on a full time basis for some period.
I also find it hypocritical for Yungerliet to “blame the yeshivos” for not training them and providing them the needed education to earn a parnassah. Hello??? If you are sitting behind a shtender in a beis medrash for 10 years and shteiging 24×7 what would you expect? It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to understand that your are not going to get hired at a good salary (outside of chinuch or perhaps as a mashgiach which itself requires special training) if you have not secular education, are not proficient on computers, etc. Its your OWN FAULT, not that of the yeshiva which you yourself voluntarily chose to attend. We have recently seen the courts throw out lawsuits filed by college grads against their schools for not adequately training them for good paying jobs. IN those cases, at least they had some training and education. For someone to metaphorically hide themselves in a cave for 10 years, then come out and cry “gevalt” about their limited options in the job market is laughable and doesn’t warrant any sympathy.
Just about every gym and company fitness center I’ve been to has jump ropes available. It often goes unused because it take a bit of coordination and if your not an “accomplished rope jumper (like my 11 year old grandson) I’d be reluctant to make a fool out of myself in a public gym. I expect many feel that way and most gyms don’t allow access to the younger (and more accomplished) jumpers…