Gadolhadorah

To L&uL
these are NOT two entirely different scenarios. Even among non-frum women, most will seek to discreetly nurse even in public (cover over with blanket or something like that). It may not be “strictly tziniusdkik by your standards but still discreet. The few wild-eyed nursing fanatics who do it openly and “in your face” are not the ones who really care about their children as much as their own political agendas. Some insist on nursing their children until they reach school age and the mother is told she cannot come on the school bus. At least in my experience, there are very few of these types of women in the frum community and most exercise common sense. Agree the my definition of “common sense” may clash with your definition of 100 percent tziniusdik/.

Best advice: Follow your head, then your heart and if all else fails, follow the eitzah from Joseph.

Meno:

According to a recent survey, forty-seven states, DC and the Virgin Islands have adopted laws that specifically allow moms to breastfeed in any public or private location. Two of the remaining states — South Dakota and Virginia — exempt breastfeeding moms from public indecency laws, and Idaho is the only state that has yet to pass any similar laws. Currently, the only protection nursing moms have in Idaho is jury duty exemption. I’m not allowed to post the link for this survey of state laws but if you google, you will find same results (or roughly similar since the terminology and degree of exemption from specific statutes may vary by survey). From a medical perspective, there are peer review studies that highlight the importance for nursing moms to nurse when their own and the baby’s needs dictate

I don’t see Joe’s views as mainstream even among my yeshivish friends, much less as typical of the MO or frum tzibur in general. If you are saying that Joe is the resident troll and should be ignored, than perhaps I give his rants too much credence from an obviously “leftist” perspective….However, when he keeps pushing the same perspective on seemingly a new thread every few days, and seeks to legitimize an ignorant and hurtful view of young women who c’v havent’ married in their teens, than I will respond since these view have a long-term hurtful impact on so many b’nos yisroel who make their own life choices that include personal growth and education.

Not sure if you realize that there may be some young men and women (who for some reason I cannot personally relate to) do not want to marry and have children. Thats clearly the exception in the frum tzibur and off your radar screen but those numbers are actually rising, albeit based on anecdotal data. My personal objection is the tendency to label those individuals as dysfunctional, damaged goods or whatever since we don’t know (nor should we) why they may have made the decision to defer marriage or simply not to marry.

Hey Joe….Irs not just the courts….the majority of states, including many of the “torah belt states”, have enacted laws giving women the legal right to nurse their babies in any public location. A baby doesn’t care if the mother is at home, on the subway or in shul. When they want to be fed, they let the mother know. Most women typically find some way of nursing their child in a discrete way but thats the mother’s chocie. If something as natural as nursing a baby troubles you than perhaps you need to deal with that issue

It is not up to the phone dealer to install filters prior to selling a device to yidden….given the vast diversity of opinions among rabbonim about smartphones and their use, its up to each individual to follow the guidance of their local rav/posek in terms of what level of filtering (if any) they should install. If these idiots who demonstrate at the home of this dealer don’t want to use any smarphone, thats their deicsion but its not their right to impose their views on others.

It is comical that in the 21st century, t is predominantly men who are postulating on what is good for women’s spiritual, physical and economic well being. Clearly, looking around at the state of affairs in many areas of the tzibur, they have been doing a great job. Perhaps wake up and realize that a young woman is no more susceptible to the yetzer horah than a man ( and biologically probably less so). As one of the other posters noted, a young woman with strong hashkafah and upbriinging can find many opportunities for pursuing her edcuation and career without compromising her yiddeshkeit, If she chooses to delay starting a family for several years, thats probably a net positive for the future success of that family since she will be able to contribute to their economic and educational well being.

Several posters’ (in this thread and others) voiced variations of Joe’s theme that “going to college somehow reduces a girl’s ruchniyos outlook on life…”. Not sure how to respond to such a misogynistic allegation other than to note that bochurim are equally (if not more) susceptible to “worldly” influences once they step outside the narrow yeshiva/kollel world they have evolved from….in fact, girls attending college to be able to assure a parnassah for themselves and a prospective choson probably have greater maturity and more discipline to focus on what they are there for (i.e. obtaining job skills) and less on the more secular, mundane or social aspects of college life that Joe worries will adversely affect her ruchnioyos

Given that there is a wide spectrum of views among rabbonim on the use of smartphones and PDAs with various filtering apps installed, there can be no singular “daas torah” as some of the above postings have suggested with respect to the sale of these devices. Yes, there is a legal right for these zealots to demonstrate on the public right of way but most normal yidden would strongly object to such a protest at the merchant’s home on Shabbos. Just because something is legal under civil law does not make it “right”.

Hatzola members are trained extensively on how/when to intervene in domestic abuse situations, including when to summon police or other first responders…I don’t think it is possible to generalize since each event will be very fact driven and they will need to rely upon their judgment as to the appropriate action. As someone else noted above, those decisions have to get made in real time and don’t always provide the opportunity to call “time-out” and consult with experts.

Just one question to all those who have posted above….would your answer to the original question have been different if the neighbor were not frum…..perhaps MO, reform or even a goy? For those of us whose view is that one should always err on the side of caution and summon first responders when one had reason to believe it was a case of possible physical abuse, the identify of the possible abuser (or the abused) shouldn’t make any difference whatsoever. Our obligations to protect another person are not a function of their hashkafah.

While its a fun idea for a thread, not every minhag has any rational basis….how many times do we here that we do it because, “thats the way it was done in the alte heim”…maybe 200 hundred years from now people will say simply that the inyan for some practice is because thats the way it the experts in the YWN CR said it should be done

Thanks Winnie….very cogent and thoughtful analysis. However, your takeaway is the key point…today and going forward, more focus should be on the individual and less on the family’s pedigree….it may be relevant for purchasing a racehorse but less for a prospective spouse

What ever happend to the quaint notion of judging a baas yisroel by her own knowledge of daas torah, her own midos and her own attributes rather than focusing on her father, her brothers, or her machatunim? It seems every other week there is another thread on some variation of this theme of shidduchim driven by the yichus of the choson or kallah rather than focusing on the individuals and their own merits.

Is there some special quality to the Litvish yeshivos in Lakewood that attracts frum families from outside the NJ area or is it like all the car dealerships clustering in the same are of a busy highway in terms of yidden simply wanting to reside where there is already a flourishing frum community? For many of these families, living in a diverse community is a negative rather than positive….another question is what this means for the long-term economic and employment growth in Lakewood. Will these new residents, in turn, help generate new jobs and expand the community tax base?

If the minhag in the alte heim when entering the court of a king was to REMOVE your hat or head covering, why is the mesorah to wear a hat when davening to show respect for hashem, melech malchei ha’malachim???

Yiddish is a dying language and its not clear that anyone here has provided any reasons to extending its life one more day than necessary. Between English and Hebrew, or the lantive lanuage of whatever country they live in, Yidden do not need any other lashon. The time spent learning yiddish could be much more usefully spent in limudei torah.

To Apushetayid: Much better to have that hybrid English than to have some native Isreaeli mumble “yashar, yashar” in response to your request for directions.

Its all a matter of what family tree impresses who…beyond the first generation, there is unlikely to be much direct impact on a descendant. I’m sure for purposes of shadchanus among a small percentage of the tzaibur, being able to claim yichus to EITHER the Chasam Sofer or R’ Eiger would be a net positive but even then, most frum young men and women today are much more concerned about the attributes and midos of the prospective chasan/kalah than who their grandfather or great-grandfather may have been.

To Lowerourtuition2010.

Shakoyach on a concise and very accurate set of responses to a lot of questions….your points on the preferences of the baal koreh are espeically appreciated since too many receiving an alyiah inadvertently end up making the reader either lose his place or c’v damage the sefer. The inyan of a “shenadar” is also problematic and more shuls are correctly moving away from this custom of a “standard price” for an aliyah and simply leaving it up to the person receiving a kavod to make the offer. As to lengthy lists of those mentioned in the mi sheberach, its rare these days in most shuls to go beyond the immediate family (wife, kids and sometimes parents) but when it happens, it always seems to be on the shabbos with the longest parashas and the person with the aliyah seems to have memory issues with the in-laws name etc.

The key variable here that is not being commonly accepted across all threads is how much information the rav who is providing the guidance actually has….in some postings, the supposition is that the Rav is well informed, has a personal knowledge of the individuals involved through some prior interactions etc…in other postings, the underlying assumption is that one must always follow the guidance of a Rav even though the immediate and real time facts/sounds may imply otherwise…there has to be some degree of common sense applied to each situation. There is no general rule of applicability that works in every such situation. Presumably,, if the Rav is not familiar with the individuals and the risks involved, he will instruct you to seek intervention by shomrim, if possible, or whatever first responders he believes will work best to mitigate any risks of harm to anyone with an awareness of the complications that could result from a “false alarm”

At some point, you need to rely upon your own gut rather than punting each time because some rav keeps telling you that “he has everything under control”. If c’v something happens, you will never be able to forgive yourself for not intervening….if the yelling or screams continue, call 911 and sleep well.

We don’t rely on our own gut instead of listening to a rav.

Bottom line is that if there is even a small risk of possible abuse or harm, than there is an absolute obligaiton under daas torah for some intervention…the form of that intervention is really a matter of judgement and several posters above have offered very helpful optoins (e.g. having shomrim respond first if in a neighborhood where they are active etc.) short of calling the police. However, if police are the only optoin, we are not permitted to stand by if c’v, someone may being and we could have taken action to prevent that harm. I’m not sure if any competent rav would really advise to do nothing unless the facts described really sounded like an otherwise normal but vocal couple who simply never learned to communicate in quiet and respectful terms. I know couples who seem to yell at each other for trivial day to day matters….its discomforting, but they’ve been married for 20+ years and never physically hurt one another.

Curiosity……sorry but I respectfully disagree and there was no disparagement….I’ve had numerous experiences where frum bochurim who had recently entered the workforce seemed awkward in their social interactions with female work colleagues….its not just handshakes and simple stuff like that….its not a stereotype since the same or other types of awkwardness afflict other groups….for those who have spent much of their lives in a narrow environment with very little interaction with girls/women outside of their immediate family and/or those of other faiths (or even non-frum yidden), there will always be a transitional period where some cultural biases and misunderstandings will arise. Over the longer term, its not an issue as we know from the very large numbers of successful frum individuals in American business. Remember that this discussion evolved from the original point of avoiding comments or inappropriate “looks” regarding the weight or dress of a woman in the workplace….its all part of a normal and gradual process of familiarization , not some dark stereotypes…

One of the first things we teach young men entering the workforce, especially those whose social skills are limited based on not having grown up in gender-mixed school system and living in a heimeshe community, is that you NEVER comment on the looks or appearance of another co-worker, even if the comment is meant as a compliment. Aside from the fact that there are many frivolous lawsuits brought based on totally innocent comments, the workplace policies and guidelines of many employers discourage such comments. Even at home, its best to avoid such commentary since its so easy to frame the comments in a way that is misunderstood or makes the recipient feel uncomfortable.