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To argue we should follow some practice because it is not forbidden and MAY have some redeeming spiritual value and/or provide some segulah is borderline “new age” hashkafah along the lines of the “healing” properties of certain crystals worn around your neck etc. Given that most yidden struggle just keeping up with hundreds of mitzos asseh m’doraisah, coming up with new rules of general applicability seems to complicate our daily lives unnecessarily.
Joseph….I think just about everyone here in CR, and indeed virtually all of klal yisroel would share your sense of discomfort and outrage with a minhag of beating people with aravos in shul on Hoshana Rabba…however, that’s not the issue here. If that is the minhag of the makom, so be it….
“There’s absolutely no heter whatsoever to throw food including apples. Its wrong on every level”….
I think chazal bring down that the issur is not on throwing food but rather on throwing rolls of paper towels at people suffering from hunger and thirst in the aftermath of a tropical storm.
Moral of the story is that even if it looks inappropriate it still may be OK if the person doing it has connections in the right places
Seems the consensus is that there is no consensus and like many such issues, you can always find a “gadol” on your side of the debate
The most incontrovertible evidence that chickens were not explicitly mentioned in the Torah is that you will not find a single chicken (or parts thereof) exhibited in the Living Torah Museum on 41st Street in Brooklyn curated by the noted expert Rav Shaul Shimon Deutsch, shlita. Rav Deutsch’s exhibit shows the 24 types of birds specifically mentioned in the Torah and not a single chicken is to be found. That should settle the matter.
…please remember to include it (along with pushing during hakofos) as among the major issues facing the tzibur in these troubled times….I suspect a good percentage of CR readers either (i) have tuned out any further debate on this subject, having exhausted commentary in prior threads or (ii) have no clue what you are talking about when dealing with wearing/not wearing
“There are plenty of houses for sale in Brooklyn, As long as you have a spare million. If you only have about $10,000 or less, you are out of luck”
For $10,000 you cannot buy a house in Shlabodka or anywhere in the “suburbs”….but you don’t have to spend $1 million either. There are thousands of homes and apartments for sale in the range of $350K-$600K. Obvioualy, if you have chosen not to work and earn a good parnassah, didn’t marry for money and haven’t won the lottery, you may have an issue.
To RY
You say that, “Brooklyn is full to the brim. There are no houses available:”. You should contact the Realtors’ multiple listing service and Zillow websites and tell them the 22,000+ listings of homes and apartments for sale in Brookly are all FAKE….;: ‘
To Tango2
I would not be quibbling over the gadlus of R.’ Miller. He is highly respected across all segments of the tzibur and his books and tapes constitute one of the largest bodies of source material on “daas torah” or whatever you to call the subject matter.The Mods seem to be “equal opportunity” censors , so hard to accuse them of being closet misnagdim out to get either Chabad or Satmar, second only to the paranoid guys who complain that they hate the Lakwood Litvish mafia….seems like the Breslov and Nachmanites get off easy
Also, R’ Miller’s admonition to yidden of a prior generation with very different options has to be interpreted by each family based on their own needs. For some, simply being close to elderly parents alone is sufficient reason to stay close to home…for others, being at some distance from the machatunim is sufficient reason for relocating. At the end, this is clearly a shared decision of a husband and wife as to what is best for them and their children and not something that can be dictated by a Rav, family member or friends in a “one size fits all” decisional framework.
To Joe: Agreed…just think of the possibilities had I been around….obviously, the point being that for most events, we don’t know and the thoughts of our gadolim as to why certain tragedies befell klal yisroel provide much for us to consider.. However every rav or mekubal who for his 15 minutes of online fame pretends to know the specific behavioral reasons for every contemporary event or tragedy have devalued the currency of such admoniitions and musar to a point of absurdity.
Insularity and parochialism can be viewed from many lenses…even Rav Miller provided many useful insights still applicable today with respect to how yidden should live in a pluralistic society such as the U.S. in a way that protected their yiddeshkeit while simultaneously avoiding behavior that would promote or perpetuate anti-Semitism. B’H we have today a greater role in the governance of the United States that, in turn, has provided opportunities to strengthen the opportunities of our children and grandchildren. One can travel across the country and find flourishing yiddeshe communities with yeshivos, mikvahs, etc. Frum observance is growing by leaps and bounds while Conservative and Reform shuls are consolidating and closing in a struggle for survival.
“A bigger minyan means you’re tefilos are more likely to be accepted.'”
Yup joe….a core inyan of yiddeshkeit is that “bigger is always better”….the mega car dealer flying a 30×40 ft flag along the interstate is obviously a bigger patriot the the poor shlump who has a small flag at the side of his trailer selling used cars along a country road 1/2 mile away. Bigger minyanim are better minyanim and the Ebeshter will “hear” their supplications without any other consideration as to the constituents of the minyan, their own personal hashkafah or the kavanah with which they daven…..Your Trumpian view of yiddishkeit is everything must be HUUUUGE!!!
If the choice is between Brooklyn and Cleveland, than perhaps I’ll make a one time exception and side with Joe…..my point was there are at least 5-10 cities outside of the NYC metro area where one can easily raise a family consistent with daas torah and Halacha. Several of those cities run ads here on YWN trying to break though the parochial and insular view of many frum yidden who still follow R. Miller’s dated perspective
Yup….just like that and a bunch of rabbunim offering multiple theories as to the reason for the shoah…….the answer is that there is no answer NOW and won’t be until z’man moishiach.
chutz la’aretz is not the same as chuz l’ BP and Willy. For a young frum couple just starting a family, being able to afford tutition at a good yeshiva, finding an affordable home in a nice neighborhood and not having to have both parents working to maintain a decent quality of life are just a few reasons to “escape” to the suburbs. At some point, the sheer concentration of the mosdos you reference is a contrarian indicator to quality of life,
To Joe and DY:
YES….. השגחה פרטית
NO: ……assigning a specific inyan or musar to a specific event….
B’H, there are many “Orthodox Ghettos” in the U.S. to escape TO….and they provide considerably higher quality and healthier “environments” than the congested, noisy and polluted environments of the older heimeshe neighborhoods R’ Miller was probably referring to. With frum shuls, yeshivos. mikvahs and kosher markets sprouting in multiple states from coast to coast, frum yidden now have many choices which are considerably more affordable for younger families and also have high quality environmental attributes as well.
I can’t wait to hear the specific reason that will be cited by some of regular CR neviim who communicate directly with the Ebeshter as to the reasons for the Northern California wildfires….is it the growing acceptance of toevah marriage that originated in nearby San Francisco, the growth of the internet facilitated by Silicon Valley to the south or perhaps some yidden in Sonoma County who davened with too much kavanah when they said tefillas geshem last year on Shemini Atzeres (fire experts attribute the rapid spread of the fire to the high winds but especially the unusually heavy growth of underbrush due to the end of California’s drought and heavy rains in the past year).
Many yidden hire goyim to build their Succah for them and perhaps only drop a few branches of schach on the roof to be mekayem the mitzvah. Even then, I recall in masechet succos, we learn that as long as the schach was placed by the goy for the purpose of providing shade, the succah is kosher regardless of who placed it. While the Arizal and others argued that it is certainly preferable for one to personally involve himself in the building of the succah there were writings by Chacham Ovadia and other contemporary gedolim that affirmed the kashruth of a succah built 100 percent by goyim.
A kosher succah is a kosher succah…..is their an inyan of going back to through the construction process to determine who held the hammer and nailed which board, who might have steadied the ladder for the one holding the hammer and who threw the schach on to the roof over the boards which were hammered by someone for whom someone else held the ladder? Not to be too technical but if there are ways to squeeze the joy out of hidur mitzvah, some will recognize no extremes to find that opportunity….
To Joseph:
“Till what age does Chazal expect parents to discipline or have any “reins” on one’s children??”
There are various holdings among the achronim but in general, there is concensus that its until the z’man they move out of the basement and are no longer eligible for a dependent deduction for federal income tax purposes.
To Joe…good effort at trolling at trying to start a contemporary broigas….not everyone shares your monolithic and frequently contorted exposition of daas torah but it can always be counted upon for comic relief. If you noted, I congratulated Yekke for a great posting with which I mostly concur
To Yekke2…..yasher koach on a very enlightening and informative posting….short, clear and to the point of the thread. Thank you.
Turn around and follow the minhag of the Contrarianner Rebbe and do the hakofos counterclockwise…will immediately force a decision by those formerly behind you and now unquestionably obstructing yidden from their efforts to complete their hakofos. Alternatively, you can have one of your chevrah walk to the side and bang on the bimah shouting that the Kiddush club will be starting in 5 minutes in the sukkah. That should quickly clear out sufficient room for hakofos in whatever direction you wish to move. A gutten moed.
The best “parenting books” are written by millennial bochurim….they supposedly combine the best qualities of nevius and 20/20 hindsight into a new and more permissive parenting philosophy under which all of their actions as kids are both rational and consistent with a 21st century hashkafah
The Swedish meatballs at Ikea stores in much of the Midwest and Mid-Atlantic states is ganz treifus…not chassideshe hashgacha, no Badatz hashgacha, no hashgacha period unless someone has convinced the Ebeshter to change his rules on what is or is not treifus…..Ikea offers “freebies’ as a function of the location and food traditions of local stores
To BB….sorry for imputing an unwanted gender change procedure on your screen name….my imaginary chazal was satirically channeling some unnamed yungerleit providing his best schmooze as to why parents should “chill out” when he is back home bein hazamanin…
To MW 13
I was never a big fan of the politicial commentary of R’ Ovadia , Z’TL but I never questioned his lamdus Nor would I imagine that R’ Kaplan thinks Chacham Ovadia wasn’t “bright” or has negative views of his shitos on a generic basis
Still unclear…understand that there is always a minyan on Shabbos and yom tovim…is there a DAILY shachris minyan year-round or just in the summer months
correction
daily minyan throughout the year or just on Shabbos??
Jakob
Contact the chabad house on Ocean Highway…they have minyanim on Shabbos (especially durinjg the summer and into the fall) but probably don’t have regular daily minyanim
to ballabuste….
Chazal bring down that having grown ups around exercising parental authority has been shown to be detrimental to spontaneity, development of an “individualized hashkafha” and an overall downer for bochurim looking to escape the rigor of heavy duty shteiging during bein hazmanim
To Baal Boose:
As Bill Clinton would say, it really depends on what you mean by “reasonable”….if your bochur is studying at a yeshiva in EY and is home for the yom tovim he can perhaps legitimately argue that he will get up for shachris sometime in the early afternoon to take advantage of the reverse time difference with chutz la’aretz
Most of the yiddeshe mosdos and media reinforce the Moed Mania by hyping special concerts, theme park trips and other “unshteiging” type events. I’m not making any value judgements and probably lean in the direction of thinking that 8 straight days of yom tovish observance would challenge the attention span and hashkafah of even the biggest masmidim…..
We’ve developed a minhag of carving faces in the esrog motzi yom tov and hanging out by the front door like the goyim do with their pumpkins…much more challenging given the smallrt scale…use a hobbyist wood carving knife…most difficult part is getting the payos likelike
If you go back, don’t get tempted by the gratis “Swedish meatballs”….the meat does not have a good chassideshe hashgacha…..the gravlax looks tempting but there is still the inyan of whether the salmon were inspected for tiny worms…However, the bottled water has a circle “M”.
Usually, the editors are accused of hating Satmar so I guess this is part of affirmative action
Sort of ironic that many of of today’s generation of future talmeidi chachamim grow up thinking about Moed succos in terms of trips to one of several theme parks and partying at all-nighj simchas beis hashoeivas more akin to Purim Sheini. The blurry line between “kodesh” and “chol” seems to have morphed in the wrong direction.
To Joe:
Sure….the gabbi sheini stands by the entrance to the ezras nashim with a list provided by the mikvah lady and checks off each woman before allowing her to partiicpateTo Little Know….
They didn’t invent “bein hazmanim” until long after the time of the mishna….There are a number of MO shuls where women dance with the torahs on simchas torah in the varbeshe section of the shul with a mechitza blocking the view. Maybe we should start a website listing those shuls just as we have websites for everything else ….as to why a woman would want to show her ahavas hashem through dancing with a torah, ask a woman…..
Yekke 2 asks: “Explain, in your own words, what you feel the function of bein hazmanim is?….”
For those who don’t take the admonition of “V’hagesa bo yomam valaylah” literally, it means the reality that there are yom tovim, which require preparation time everyone from the Rosh Yeshiva, the many rabbonim who may be magid shiiur down to the workers in the chadar ochel to the janitors who sweep the floors in the beis medrash. These same people have families and require time off for rest and vacation The reality is that even the most dedicated masmid needs a break. You cannot shteig 24x7x365.
The general inyan that one should “hasten” to perform a mitzvah would suggest davening earlier and not waiting for the latest possible minyan for a bochur to daven….normally, at the yeshiva, he could roll out of bed and be in the beis medrash for davening within a few minutes…at home during bein hazmanim, that time line is obviously longer. As a practical matter, unless you live within a few blocks of a shul which has non-stop minyaniim right up until z’man, this entire thread may be irrelevant
Perhaps there is some special “dispensation” for the yeshiva talmidim from the mashgiach ruchani to sleep in on Friday AM if one were out late Thursday night attending a seudas mitzvah (aka Chulent night at the local chassidish place) …my recollection is that they had a hard time getting a minyan on Friday am at the YU dorms….maybe not an issue for BMG in Lakewood (or perhaps its just lousy NJ chulent)
Rav Gavornlik argued that when possible (such as during bein hazmanin) when they have the flexibility, yungerleit should consider davening vasikim to show the discipline…sleeping late to the last minute before z’man shachris is not respectful and more attuned to a college kid on spring break partying late and sleeping in the next AM with a hangover.
To I Know Little
You say there is lots of other stuff worse than guns than kids should know about. Perhaps you have a different philosophy but some of us believe its better to empower our kids with age appropriate information on subjects we wish they never would encounter but know they will . As you correctly note, kids today cannot be kept locked away in some “safe room” with no exposure to all sorts of pritzus and painful images. Do you think its worse for them to see fundraising pashkavelim with pictures of starving children or elderly begging for tzadakah outside of the shul or beis medrash than girls dressed in less than tziniusdik outfits on 13th avenue on a warm Shabbos afternoon or a gay couple holding hands on Eastern Parkway? Giving them the information how daas torah deals with these “inappropriate” issues and visuals is much better than keeping than in the dark and forcing them to confront these issues with no understanding or prior discussion.
Perhaps you should ask why decorating the sucah or ANY other task not specifically mandated under Halacha is defined by gender? Whoever in the family (husband, wife or both) who have the time and requisite skills to perform a task is the one who should do it….too many household tasks get stereotyped by gender unnecessarily. Men are perfectly capable of doing the laundry, cooking for yom tom or toiveling new dishes. Women can build a sucah, buy seforim for the kids or help the kids with their homework, whether secular or limudei torah.