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There are few reliable statistics with and degree of granularity that would support assertions regarding net outward migration from frum neighborhoods in Brooklyn, especially by younger families with school-age children. There have been lots of anecdotal stories to that effect, linking the exodus to housing costs that had become beyond the reach of even younger families with working parents. Some Jewish welfare agencies do their own “surveys” but those results are not always reliable or may have some “agenda”. The 2020 census may actually provide the best resource in terms of reaching such conclusions.
Note: parenthetical above should read (FOR THOSE who unquestionably are yidden). Obviously, there are many who are not. My point being even those who ARE yidden are still encountering hostility and discrimination over a decade after their arrival in EY.
I don’t really see much in the way of affirmative programs designed to introduce these immigrants (who unquestionably are yidden) to traditional yiddeshkeit but a lot of warnings about their being a threat to yiddeshkeit by embracing “reform” practices or simply posing as yidden while not have been megayer c’halacha.
Poishete Yid: You just explained your posting name. However, mediocrity is a step below “plain” or “ordinary”. Perhaps you are having a bad hair day mourning the loss of Oscar the Grouch from Sesame Street who it was announced was niftar yesterday.
“….Does Trump keep the Sheva Mitzvos to be Meshiach?
Well, lets consider them one by one. If I was a Trumpkopf, I’d hold off on the yellow flags for now.
Not to worship idols. Is worshiping oneself as the greatest narcissist in history considered idolatry?
Not to curse God. His increasingly frequent use of the G-D adjectives at MAGA rallies might raise questions?
To establish courts of justice. And question the legitimacy of judges he didn’t appoint? .
Not to commit murder. Not directly, but ask the Kurds in northern Syria.
Not to commit adultery, bestiality, or sexual immorality. Ask his first two wives or Melania about Stormy D.
Not to steal. Or at least not get caught as in enriching his hotels at taxpayer expense
Not to eat flesh torn from a living animal. Give him a pass given his preference for well done Big MacsKnaidlach: Have there been any prior cases of verified shiduchim achieved here in the CR?
Much hatzlacha to both of you both in terms of building a bayis ne’man bayisroel and for contributing to the war Shidduch Crisis threads).
Philosopher clearly believes in the “slippery slope” theory that any sort of social engagement with singles or even other families may jeopardize the spirituality of one own’s family and possibly lead to a breakdown in values and disruption of the marriage I’m not sure there is any purpose in debating the merits of such a closed model of social interaction and need for yidden to reach out to others in the tzibur who are not so fortunate. He claims that he grew up within that closed model, would never have accepted an invitation to share with other families and if you c’v suffer a loss or simply are not so fortunate to find your beschert, just suck it up and get used to being alone. I and other posters here come at it from a much more open and accepting view of sharing with those who would otherwise be alone and we don’t believe it threatens our own hashkafah or jeopardizes our own relationships with our spouses or family members.
Think about the words from an old chassidish melody sung by a group called דריי הונט נאַכט
“….One is the loneliest number a yid will ever know….
Gadolei yisroel (or their Agudah surrogates) have paskind that its “BORO” Park….in the newly published listing of charter bus routes to th Siyum on January 1st, there are not just one but two pick-up locations in Boro Park but none in Borough Park.
LOTR92: The only public tours of the Medical Examiners’ offices are on the second and fourth Saturday of each month so not a good idea for a frum bochur to impress his beschert.
Reb Eliezer: I’m so sorry to hear of your loss (even nine years ago) and was intrigued (and to some degree saddened) by your sharing the fact that within your chassidish community, only the Rav has reached out to share a shabbos or yom tov meal. That apparently is the minhag hamakom in your velt and apparently in other similarly situated chassidish communities. If that is the norm and there are no expectations of a broader outreach effort than there is perhaps there isg no issue. However, it is my limited understanding that in some cases, there is a great sense of loneliness and isolation among those who for whatever reason don’t have a network of family and friends with whom to share a shabbos table.
P.S. You should only know from simchas”…..I’m not saying you can’t talk to your guests if that what’s done in your community, but there still must be reserve when interacting with the opposite gender and many people have lost that reserve…”
Agreed, but what constitutes “reserve” is clearly a function of what might be considered in a social context, “mihhag hamokom”. I’m certain there is a vast difference as to what level of “reserve” is considered the norm or is appropriate as between a shabbos table at the home of a MO family versus that of a Chareidi or Chassidish family. My only hope is that to the extent possible and without jeopardizing your own shalom bayis, greater efforts be made to reach out to individuals who might otherwise be alone on shabbos notwithstanding their gender, age, maritial status or hashkafah.Reb Elizezer: Thats 100 percent correct. Likewise, when that bird is a vulture and consistently screeches out words of disparagement of other yidden with a different hashkafah, an occaional “chirp” when davening, cannot erase the more lasting sounds of the screeching.
Simplesense……Not everyone has the yichus to have a Gadolhadorah as their local rav/posek. Also, the original question/troll by Reb Yosef was rather thought-provoking.
Reb Eliezer: Its much easier for a single guy to “network” in shul or at the beis medrash and get himself invited to share shabbos with other families if he is from OOT or just new to the neighborhood or simply tired of spending shabbosm and yom tovim with his own family and anxious to meet and engage with new people. Once they are several years out of school/seminry single women in the Chareidi or Yeshivish velt often have fewer options to meet new friends and get invited to share shabbosim with other families. I’m not certain there is any valid measure of lonliness and depression in the frum communities but I suspect it may be higher among single women and all of us have an obligation to help them expand their networks in a welcoming and supportive way.
Presumably, Reb Yosef will argue that In order to offset his obligation under the Ketubah to support the Rebitzen in the style she deserves, she was required under halacha to surrender all her property and earnings to Reb Yosef (along with with any profits she might make through investments, winning the lottery etc.). I could not find any place where chazal bring down whether that include a gift from her father for the specific purpose of purchasing a Florida condo?
Also, hopefully Reb Yosef will clarify my understanding that the Rebbitzen may NOT have been required to convey all of her property rights to her husband if she explicitly made clear her intention to support herself (Masseches Kessubos: 46b-47b]. Thus, the real estate agent, having been informed of Rebitzen Yosef’s declared self-supporting status correctly assumed he didn’t need Reb Yosef’s approval to take the deposit for the Condo.
The real questioni is whether Reb Yosef will be inviting his DR chevrusah down to Florida for Super Bowl weekend (at Hard Rock Stadium in Miami). And no, its on February 1st, a month after the Siyum in the Snow at Met Life Stadium on January 1st.P.S. Presumption that no woman earning more than Reb Yosef would have married him so that he could claim control over her earnings so the hypothetical provides that the funds were “gifted” to her.
Reminder that one of the Mods wisely posted yesterday that a Trolling post can either seek to aggravate certain other posters or occasionally to solicit opinions on controversial issues.
Obviously, here Rev Yosef is really upset that he came home earlier this afternoon for Shabbos and discovered that Rebbitzen Yosef had purchased a new beachfront South Florida condo using funds that were a gift from her father, to get away from the cold weather (and possibly Reb Yosef as well) during the winter months. Outraged by this act of civil disobedience, Reb Yosef immediately called the real estate agent demanding a refund of the deposit but was politely told to engage in certain activities that cannot be repeated here on YWN. Thus, Reb Yosef is considering whether these funds (which were a gift to his wife from her father) immediately became marital property and thus HIS property and therefore the Florida real estate agent is mamash a ganov in accordance with hilchos Yosef.
More to come motzi Shabbos.
There seems to be this totally false, dishonest and truly offensive theme in many postings that divorced or single women are somehow out to prey on happily married men or otherwise prone to act aggressively or inappropriately around men. I suspect the same could be said about single men as well (with respect to their behavior around women) since they are often immature and lack basic social skills. The reality is obviously that any individual may or may not act inappropriately at different times, but its total incorrect to characterize any subset of the tzibur as a “threat” whether it be their modesty, lack of hashkafah or likelihood to engage in lashon harah or anything else.
We say “THE Bronx” not just “Bronx”. We don’t say “The Brooklyn'” or “The Queens”. Likewise, certain acronyms or nomenclature just evolve and become the norm. In this case, obviously either work. If in doubt, try typing in “boro park” as your Uber destination and it will automatically redirect you to :”Borough Park’. Likewise, when sending mail to “The Bronx”, you don’t include “the” in the address line. Whats more important for Avram in Maryland is to know whether Owing Mill or Owings Mills or Silver Spring vesus Silver Springs and to know that the Uber driver will deposit him in Kensington( near Silver Spring(s)) rather than some Kensington in yena velt , 200 miles north near some place called Boro Park.
Its also possible that you could organize a Shabbos seudah at your home involving other couples or families along with the person your wife is seeking to host. Having more people might lessen the concerns unless the single person is acting overtly inappropriately.
I agree with Prof Turley (the Republican’s witness at yesterday’s hearing). This whole charade regarding Ukraine, Biden Gulianni etc. was clearly inappropriate but not impeachable. Part of the problem is that Trump has so lowered the bar for what is considered “normal” behavior, its hard to get too excited about Ukraine in comparison a lot of his other “stuff”, which I won’t bother reciting here since everyone’s view are relatively locked-in. The matter should be settled at the ballot box in 2020.
Obviously, they chose New Years Day to maximize the number of participants at the ceremonial siyum and achieve the widest positive follow up including brining in new daf yomi learners for the next cycle. Do you have a problem with that?
Several great museums in the City where you can walk around (w/o worrying about the weather), engage in light conversation in a relaxed and quiet mode and where a few moments of silence wouldn’t be awkward and where both of you could react to the subject matter and thereby learn a bit about the other. The Metropolitan Museum of Art, the new and expanded Museum of Modern Art, Hayden Planetarium (with the sky show), Museum of Natural History and the Jewish Museum are the more obvious venues. If its a nice day, the Bronx or Central Park Zoo or the Science Center in NJ are other options.
Uncle Ben: I don’t think you are going to find a “smoking gun” in the context of what you call a “mekor” which explicitly or unequivocally stand for the inyan of a person being moshiach [in waiting]while he was alive and then continuing to be he mochiach once he was dead. That same person might have arguably sang the words during his life “achakeh lo b’chol yom she’yovah”. Its not even clear that someone who is held to be moishiach by his followers would know during his lifetime that he was so designated by the Ebeshter. My point is simply that there is no way to prove or disprove these types of beliefs, notwithstanding what chazal bring down regarding the attributes or criteria to be moishiach.
Could someone explain the difference between Rebbishe batei k’nessiois and say small shtieblach in the home of a chabad shaliach?
Little I Know: I’m not sure anyone is “advertising” for lawyers or toanim. The point was that there may certain cases, which the only the OP would be aware of, where in addition to the advice of his Rav, there could be a separate need for a frum attorney to protect the interests of the OP if there were matters that might spill over into a civil court. Generally, not necessary but every case presents unique facts and circumstances.
So that there will never be any new (or bumped) threads dealing with either moishiach or the shidduch crisis.
Danmarino: Are you in Flatbush or Frankfurt? Makes a big difference since you will want an advisor (doesn’t have to be a lawyer) who knows the local beis din scene and the rabbonim likely to serve on the tribunal for that divorce. Just like a civil court, each beis din has its own procedures and protocols for the conduct of gittin. Having an attorney may be helpful to the extent you need to coordinate the get with civil divorce proceedings, especially if their are child custody issues. And yes, there are websites and support discussion groups for frum men/fathers going through a divorce. We cannot post links here but you can search online and they will be readily identified.
I don’t hear anyone exploring the potential for selling your wife versus your children. In some cases, this would be a more progressive idea given that there already is a secondary market “varbeshe zacht”.
“there is no problem to say your rebbe is moshiach..”
Strange that we don’t see equally passionate debates here in the CR as to whether Reb Aaron or Reb Zalman Leb could be Moishiach, or even Reb Yolish Z’L. Given the importance of Z’man moishiach to their relationship with EY (versus Medinas Yisroel) one might think they would be “highly motivated” to speculate as to WHO, when and where compared to the Chabad yellow flag wavers.Perhaps they know something the rest of us don’t and are reluctant to share with the rest of the tzibur
Correction: The name of the radio show is “Moishiach in the Air”
Whats with this post-Thanksgiving bumping of 5 and 10 YO threads? Too many yidden with too much time on their hands after a goiyeshe yom tov holiday where they actually could use their computer?
There is a radio show on motzi Shabbos called “Moisiach Now” which offers a very nuanced view of the prevailing Chabad shita that allows for one to believe in the imminent arrival of moishiach w/o necessarily coming out and saying that the “arrival” is really the “return” of the Rebbe. Likewise, there is enough debate among chazal as noted in the above posts (and prior threads) regarding the belief in one’s rebbe being moishiach for one to accept a more agressive view of how the rebbe himself dealt with the issue w/o it being characterized as mamash apikorsus.
I listened to the live webcast and did not see or hear such a pronouncement from anyone. I’m sure there are some in the crowd who might agree to such a moishichist message with respect to the Rebbe, Z’L, but I know that the 770 leadership prefer to avoid this broigas and don’t run around waving yellow flags at these Annual events which try to bring together all the shalichim with the big Chabad donors in a celebratory event free from partisan bickering.
And only 127 days until some in the tzibur have the minhag of removing “Mashiv HaRuach;” whereas most others replace it with the “Morid HaTal,”. It can get confusing unless you are a meteorologist or a rosh medinah who can control the weather with a black sharpie.
Lakewhut: there are lots of non-Russian yidden in EY who are also very dangerous to yiddeshkeit. Lets stop with these broad accusations and generalizations against a whole segment of the tzibur.
Reb Yosef is correct regarding the likelihood that a number of the FSU immigrants to EY (not just Russians) were likely never megayer c’halacha and pose a real challenge in terms of their future marriages, status of their children etc. Unfortunately, though, many who did properly convert are treated with a total lack of respect by many frum mosdos and are being pushed away from yiddishkeit rather than being embraced. While some skepticism is totally appropriate, there needs to be considerably more attention focused on their credentials rather than these broad characterizations we see in the media.
RebDeb: The second marriage would likely be annulled by a beis din on the grounds that BOTH parties were mentally incapacitated. The husband was crazy for having used a burnt kugel as an excuse to file for a get and the wife even crazier for having remarried such a lunatic. One might also question the competence of any Rav who would knowingly be masader kiddushin for two such nutcases.
A man who literally seeks a get for a wife who burns his dinner will himself find an even more offensive burning smell in his version of olam habah (aka gehenom). Even our usual trolls have shown some restraint in recent years in posting such idiotic justifications for offensive behavior because one might bring down a literal holding or inyan from chazal. As others have frequently noted, you can probably find some basis from an out of context excerpt from tanach or some arcane gematria to prove or disprove anything you wish to belief.
Today we know from both gadolei torah and frum psychologists, family relations experts, etc. that in certain cases, divorce is not just the only option but it is the BEST option for the man and wife but also for the children. Obviously, we should exhaust all other options but there may be reasons beyond shalom bayis why a divorce is necessary.
What are the prospective Choson’s family special minhagim for Zois Chanukah beyond saying taslich, etc.?
Way too complicated……too much risk of burning down the sukkah if we were to place the mnorah right by the entrance with the intent of being hddur mitzvah. Also, sehphardim do not hold by eating sufganiyos in the sukkah. Finally, its hard to find weatherproof dreidel decorations at Leiters in the September time frame .
Southerner makes an excellent point. Absent an existing and thriving Jewish community, there is considerable risk for a young family with children to move to an OOT location with a “field of dreams” mindset (aka “if enough of us make the move, others will follow”). . Also, make sure the community is a growing community with a solid economic base. Unless you and your wife are self-employed or are in a profession where you can work from anywhere, there is a big risk in finding that the one or two employers who will provide your parnassah are cutting back or relocating leaving you with few options. Its a big decision that can be very rewarding in the right OOT location.
Silencing a loud schmoozer in shul in 2019 has changed substantially since 2012 where a poster noted that the preferred approach was for the gabbai rishon to get in the face of the offender and scream “sheigetz aross”.. Today, we use more subtle means of shaming the individual such as having the shalicach tzibur klop on the bimah and admonish the tzibur to daven more quietly since those sitting close by to Reb Shvuntz are having a hard time hearing him. If that doesn’t work, the following Shabbos he may find his shtender relocated to the small closet behind the varbeshe section where they keep the cleaning supplies. Other new high tech options include a Shabbos “taser for talkers” or including his photo in th0se annoying pop-up ads on “Stop the Talking in Shul”.
Yes Reb Yosef, but there are some that do teach Rashi and and more. Its a matter of parental choice to decide which school best serves their daughter’s needs and their hashkafah. I’d like to believe that parents that allow their daughter to attend a school where she might learn chumash and rashi and/or other meforshim are not placing their chelek of olam habah at risk. Shabbat shalom
Its a free country and efforts by OOT mosdos to attracted educated/affluent yidden are no different then efforts by local economic development agencies to attract Amazon and other high tech companies. If you are a small but growing OOT frum community somewhere in yenavelt (from a NY perspective) its important to actively promote your new community, highlight the quality of life and cost-of-living benefits along with the new yiddeshe amenities (aka yeshiva, BY, mikvah and kosher markets). There is a new generation of younger couples who want to start a family without the noise, pollution, crime and other realities of life in the fast lane and also be able to afford a home and tuition that OOT communities sometimes offer.
I cannot imagine ANY parent, Litvish or Chasidish, enrolling their daughter in a yeshiva for girls by ANY name without preforming their own due diligence, talking to friends with children attending the school, checking any online reviews or ratings and even sitting in on a few classes if the rules allow. The name may be a good starting point (aka a Beis Yaakov versus a Day School) based on the hashkafah of the family, but given that today there may be choices for parents in larger metro areas, not all Beis Yaakovs offer the same degree of quality chinuch as others. Fortunately, not even the most traditional BY today literally subscribe to Yosef’s predictable mycogonistic spin on halacha discouraging a robust torah education for frum girls.
Never believe rumors, especially on social media sites. Turns out that some say that “apoisheteyid” is not the same person as “asimpleyid”……nothing is simple or poishete. Could they really be TWO DIFFERENT POSTERS seeking to sow confusion (or is such an accusation considered lashon horah)??
I heard a rumor that someone in the CR named “apoisheteyid” was starting a libelous thread accusing other CR posters of not being machmir in their adherence to rules governing lashon hara. Again just a rumor.