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Dr. Birx at one of the early WH Task Force briefings before yom tov had observed that the few data streams they had so far from other countries showed younger children seemed to have the lowest infection rate of the various age groups although subsequent data here in the U.S. indicated that even children can become seriously ill and die from CV. She has stressed that NONE of these anecdotal studies are definitive. At this point, we have tested less than 1 percent of the U.S. population and most of those were symptomatic individuals in the upper age brackets.
New minhagim on “greetings” will be the least of our problems going forward. I think many are underestimating the changes that will be necessary for the near term in many aspects of our daily lives, some of which may be temporary changes and others, long-term. Does anyone really anticipate 80,000 yidden packing into MetLife stadium later this year to hear about the evils of the internet? Maybe they could do a “virtual asifah on Zoom”.
More seriously, there will be substantial challenges to many Mosdos that will have to deal with newly imposed costs at a time that revenues and fundraising will be challenged. More spacing and social separation, even in the short term, will require physical changes to facilities and possibly lower limits on attendance in schools and Simcha halls. New protocols in medical and dental offices will have costs as will more frequent testing and vaccinations (assuming we have one available next year). Even grocery stores may limit their “fresh” produce options and salad bars and move towards more pre-packaged foods and produce to limit handling. These all come at a cost.Several camps have already said they will be closed this summer but most are deferring any final decision until the next 2 weeks when the federal and state governments issues their new guidelines on social distancing and group activities. Even if they do reopen, some parents are likely to keep their kids at home this summer in an abundance of caution. The good news is that the incidence of infection is very low for younger kids and they generally seem to bounce back quickly. However, as any parent knows, it is very difficult to impose public health guidelines when they are under constant supervision, much less when they are with the chevrah in camp.
All conspiracy theories aside, there will never be definitive proof that China caused the virus albeit clearly responsible for the delay in communicating its severity. It may be entertaining to discussing reneging on PRC held debt but that also will never happen. What we should be doing is taking steps now, including some already proposed by the Administration, to reduce our reliance on China across all segments of the supply chain. Otherwise, enjoy your theoretical debate over what we might do in some imaginary world.
Couch: You say “once its OVER”….I’m not sure what that means since the virus is not going away. It will be substantially MITIGATED once we have both a vaccine with high efficacy (about 15-18 months away according to every expert except the Trumpkopf) and a real time ability to test and contact trace. Right now we have tested less than 1 percent of the population and public health officials acknowledge they the resources to do meaningful contact tracing.)
Yes, b’yh, we will return to some degree of normalcy but there will be some common sense changes in our behavior even after we have vaccines and testing.Forshayer: I suspect that for the indefinite future, we would be showing MORE kovod to our rabbonim and gadolim (as well as one another) by foregoing handshakes, kissing the hands, hugging etc. and simply engaging in a slight bow of the head or other non-contact recognition.
Media has it right an wrong. he was very slow to acknowledge the crisis but once the seriousness of the threat was finally internalized, he probably has done as well as any politician could have done to mobilize a dysfunctional federal government to respond. I wish he would suspend his constant need for adulation during the crisis (25 percent of the time at the daily Corona news conferences are wasted on useless statistics w/o any context and genuflection by his minions) but overall he media should stop looking backwards on what could have been done better. We are where we are, for better or worse.
If we are back to some semblance of “normal” within a few weeks, than Trump will clearly be the winner and they might as well cancel the election. If this drags on to the Summer, Joe can start measuring the Oval Office for new draperies.
Reb Yosef is correct: Kissing the Rebbe’s hand is a lot more efficient way of spreading any infectious disease rather than simply shaking hands.
In reality, there will obviously be real changes in salutation and recognition behaviors, at lease for the near-term. There are many ways to show kovod for your rebbe, w/o direct physical contact. That is just as much for the Rebbe’s well-being as your own.
Reducing our reliance on China for essential materials, ranging from the key ingredients for most of our drugs, a large percentage of our personal protective gear (masks, gowns, etc), rare earth materials essential to our technologies etc. is a no brainer and this pandemic will hopefully accelerate those steps. However, it is really not realistic to demand that China “pay” for the pandemic as politically attractive as that might sound to some on the far right and far left. In fact, we may need China to help finance the massive increase in U.S. deficits by purchasing even more bonds from the U.S. Treasury in the next year or two.
It is impossible to have zero public access to your lives and personal information. However, 90 percent of what is available online about you is information you have affirmatively placed in the public domain, perhaps without knowing it. There are multiple ways to minimize your public profile if you choose to use them
No evidence that it would. Closest real “experiment” is current practice in Sweden. Herd immunity, to the extent it is effective, varies considerably by virus and there is zero long-term information on CV19/.
Sam……in many families, the wives share interesting verts with their husbands….
Hope you have a chag sa’maach and why don’t you share with us some creative thoughts you heard curing the sedorim from your wife/daughters motzi yom tov.
Wolf: As noted previously, in addition to your Rav,
There is nothing funny about kiddush club.
Especially now.
Commonseychal: Your accusation against Chymee is itself a manifestation of sinas chinam and lashon haroh.
Given that brisket is still a relatively fatty/high cholesterol meat, even after cooking, a 4oz to 6oz portion should be plenty for a typical adult, ex=specially since you are likely to have a number of other dishes at the seder. Also, the brisket gravy itself is typically fatty if you allow the meat to “lose” its fat into the sauce while cooking and not skim it afterwards. Clearly, the fortunate younger folks or those with great metabolism and no cardio/health concerns can eat considerably more.
Chag kosher, vasameach u’bataovon!!The “lockdown” will obviously continue, albeit to a less restrictive set of rules, at least through the summer months. While they will take a economic hit, the year-round residents of the upstate counties, including many yidden, will NOT want to see a caravan of potential virus carriers heading up the NYS Thruway to the summer camps and bungalow colonies. Parents should now be planning how they will keep the yinglach occupied this summer and hopefully the yeshivos will reopen after the yamim noraim.
There is now documented evidence that in rare cases (a very strong/deep cough or sneeze) the viral droplets could be propelled up to 20 feet. Again, this is rare but we all know that we sometimes unexpectedly have such a cough/sneeze which has much greater “strength” and even if standing 6 feet away, could infect others.
Reb Elieizer: Sadly, this year, there will be no ayin to be mares…..the only ones at the seder are those already in the home who will know how it was cooked… For future years, hopefully moisiach will be around so we won’t be eating “chicken”. after the geulah.
Our shul kitchen is being kashered for peseach and volunteers will prepare VERY BASIC pescach meals for delivery to those whose older members planned to share yom tov with their children and don’t have the ability to do it themselves. There are volunteer drivers who will make “contactless deliveries”. The kitchen is huge so no problems with social separation of volunteer chefs who will be checked for health status when they come in for their shift (we have more physicians than cooks in our shul).
There are lots of really good resources available for planning this year’s sedorim taking into account the isolation of families accustomed to gathering together I can’t post URLs here but if you google search terms such as “seder” and “family” and “virus” and “social distancing” you will find several sites offering suggestions to organize you seder in a way that keeps the kids occupied.
Save the new age spiritualism, kabalistic segulahs, self-anointed prophets and gypsy fortunetelling for the post-virus victory parties. Hashem endowed a number of our brothers and sisters with incredible intellect needed to develop and execute public health, diagnostic and treatment strategies to overcome the virus and they are well on their way to success. If some of the mindless behaviors reported here on YWN among a small fringe of the Chareidi community would gain control of themselves, the victory will come sooner rather than later.
Get out of the house for walks whenever you can. Early in the AM may be best and there are smaller numbers of people with whom to “socially distance yourselves”. He needs to have the stimulation of changing visuals outside along with the exercise and motion.
Why do some immediately assume that an OTD problem is rooted in Shmiras Ha’einayim???
There are many reasons why young men and women go OTD and while the “internet” may be a factor in some cases, there are so many other possible causes.
Speak with your local Rav and also seek input from a frum therepist as to how his behavior is affecting your family and relationships.
If there was no risk to others and the risk could be limited to the 10 idiots who continue to defy every public health expert and virtually all gadolim, then let them cluster together and reap the consequences. The gene pool of the tzibur at large would benefit. However, their behavior risks all of us and that is why it is so infuriating to continue reading every day another question or proposal to circumvent the guidance. Tefillah b’tzibur is important but the lives of yidden are much more so.
Does halacha prohibit throwing the chicken on your backyard grill and using a simple basting with simple sauce made from olive oil, honey fresh herbs and lemon? Keep it light and avoid heavy sweet sauces.
On the YWN news page, there is a newly posted article reporting that Bikur Cholim in Lakewood is BEGGING their tzibur to STOP immediately with ANY minyanim, indoor or outdoors. This mindless obcession with minyanim under the current circumstance is crazy and dangerous These yidden should be reported to the police immediately for endangering public health. There is ZERO concern with mesirah under the conditions of pikuach nefesh. If any of them come down with the virus, they should be put at the end of the line for medical treatment since they deliberately sought to increase their exposure.
Please save your uninformed and stupid conspiracy theories for the right-wing wingnut websites and not our time with your meshugaas. Were they slow and opaque in their response? Absolutely yes.
Is anyone setting up their live streaming of their sedorim with mishpacha who are self-quarantining (assuming they can get an opinion from their rav that such a zoom arrangement is OK if all the settings and computers are positioned before yom tov and they do not make any adjustments. even if the connection goes down).
Governor Cuomo, Johns Hopkins Public Health Institute (the nation’s top infectious disease research center) and the CDC are ALL predicting that the NY metro area spread in new cases, hospitalizations and deaths won’t peak for at least another 3 weeks which takes us past motzi yom tov. Keep your families at home….its not worth risking their lives and those of others for a “day in the park”. Yes, its harder for large frum families but the alternative, as we sadly read hourly on YWN, is a lot worse then bored and fidgety kids.
Good question. Its always a challenge with children to explain a departure from norms you have instilled in them in a way that they understand its a ONE TIME change in the rules justified by the circumstances. Younger children may not remember…older ones will understand the one=time nature of the change. Its those in the “middle” where there is a need for using the right words and the right tone to rationalize the change so they don’t take it upon themselves in the future to decide when its “OK” to ignore the hashkafah you have struggled to provide them.
Most families are hunkering down and plan to spend chol hamoed at home. The local park systems in NYC, Lakewood and Monsey which annually are crowded with large numbers of frum families have all said they will be closed and police will be nearby to block any large gatherings that violate social distancing rules. Don’t believe anything you hear from the WH that by Easter Sunday the worst will be over and people will be crowding into their houses of worship. It MAY happen in rural Wyoming but zero percent liklihood in the NY metro area. Don’t get the kids hopes up by planning “outings” for chol hamoed. Explain the realities of what is and will continue to be the norms for the next several weeks, at least through Pesach.
Charlie: Have there been many cases at Einstein/the Pelham Parkway/Riverdale neighborhoods (outside of the New Rochelle Cluster)?
The post-illness antibody tests are reasonably definitive BUT the testing materials and protocols won’t be fully available for 6-8 weeks minimum so I wouldn’t make any assumptions. This is serious stuff, and I just wouldn’t take the small risk for now until more validated information is available. Every few hours we read about another gadol or chashavuh rav being niftar from the Virus. Yes, they are older, but as others have noted, allowing our children to infect the elderly is reckless and mindless, even if the kids themselves are at low risk. Its hard to stop a child from running up to his rebbe from school or the shul or even grandparents trying to distance themselves.
Catching up on all the deferred home repairs, cleaning for Peseach, responding to the few clients still actively doing business, skyping with the kids, and getting the herb garden ready for planting as soon as the temperatures warm up a bit.
P.S. learning how to use Zoom and Team for video conferences.“I think come Chol Hamoad Pesach many Jewish families will be immune to the Corona virus and ready to roll …”
Roll where??? This will be with us for at least another 6-8 weeks before we hit the peak….taking young children to any areas where there is a likelihood of infection is truly madness. I expect these kind of mindless predictions from our President but not from the normally rational readers here in the CR. Yes, it will pass, but all the evidence suggests the trajectory will be longer and there will be residual risks to the elderly even after the “curve flattens”. When the shuls reopen, do you really want to have younger kids who are asymptomatic carriers of the virus infecting the older daveners ??
Keep them at home and safe. Given the trajectory of the past 72 hours, there is NO WAY that taking kids to parks and playgrounds during chol hamoed will be safe. Even if the yinglanch themselves may arguably be at low risk for illness (there have been two deaths of young kids in the past 48 hours) , they are walking petri dishes for the virus and wiill bring it home and infect their grandparents and anyone with a compromised immune system. Yes, it will be a challenge to keep the locked up at home for a month but anyone who thinks the risks are low or can be “managed” are delusional
I went to the local supermarket at about 2 AM today and the place was nearly empty. Sure, there were empty shelves in the toilet paper and soap sections but otherwise, fairly well stocked. I used the self-checkout option to avoid having to deal with cashiers and immediately wiped my hands with a wipe.
A lot easier to than last week trying to nail down a deliver time from Amazon Fresh or the delivery service of that same market.We also have so much more to daven for……the usual “speed’ davening” many had become accustomed to in a world where we were all on a treadmill trying to meet obligations of family and jobs has given way to a more focused and thoughtful conversation with the Ebeshter. One of the few positives right now.
Why can’t the tzibur realize that this is truly a life or death matter, especially for older yidden, and you can daven b’yachid for several weeks until the spread of the virus begins to flatten and wind-down. There seems to be a constant kvetching about ways to work around the rules or by complaining that subways and buses are running so why do shuls have to close. (Most of the hospital workers rely on mass transit to get to and from work).
Very good suggestion although it may depend on the facts. For example, what happens if you lose one or two members of the minyan because of a disrupted internet connection. Is that different from one or two daveners who doze off in shul and fail to answer umein???
The photos tonight from Italy where army trucks carrying dozens of caskets for mass cremation to other areas where the crematoriums were not overwhelmed was chilling. Nearly 500 deaths today alone and Italy today exceeded the death total from China with more than 10x the population.