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“If it was so easy then we wouldn’t need these YWN posts about tznius. ”
It’s not difficult physically. You can find modest clothing. It’s not hard to get dressed. What’s harder is to fight the yetzer hara. And women have a yetzer hara for being immodest and for following the prevailing culture. When you see an immodest woman, you are seeing a person who is run by her yetzer hara.
“There’s a problem when someone simply states a halacha or an idea and it’s considered bashing.”
comes from the influence of the liberal Jews and their tolerance and moral relativity but tolerance only for deviance not for conservative living. Just try to protest abortion of babies.
“On a side note, why shouldn’t there be hechsherim on clothing for shatnez? Talleisin have hechshers, but I’ve never seen it on normal clothing. Does it exist, and I just don’t know about it?”
It exists for certain chassidish clothing. the problem is that most clothing is made in the far east. it’s very expensive to have hasgacha on that. food in general is made under tighter conditions for fear of health problems, clothing is made often in sweat shops.
It’s not just the five towns. It’s every town, some worse than others, and there are people who rise above. One of the most inspiring sights is when you see before you 9 immodest women and one modest one. There she is, a rose among the thorns, standing up against the pressures, letting her neshama shine forth. there are more than a few women who get it right and i admire them.
In fairness to the fake frum women and their immodest attire, their inexcusable lapse in observance isn’t coming from nowhere. Most of the frum world is very weak in emunah these days. the husbands dress more modestly than the wives, but aren’t necessarily filling the house with yiras shemayim. These things all go together. Unfortunately, even among the supposedly frummer people today, there has developed an equation of being frum with going to daf yomi class. all the other mitzvos and especially yiras Hashem have been lost. In many ways, the immodest attire is a symptom of a deeper problem.
“kollel guys leaving bais medrash to create havoc on israeli streets on hiways and biways ”
the tznisus problem is much worse for one it’s every moment of the day and widespread which is not the case for what you just described. kollel boys don’t daily burn garbage on streets and block traffic, and when they do, it’s always in response to an arrest, often of girls, by the israeli government, the protests happen about once every three weeks and last for two hours and happen on particular street corners, there’s no comparison between the two
” a large percentage of boys in the frum so called chareidi circles are just not marriageable material”
this comment isn’t telling us of the problem but is the problem itself, this ridiculously negative view of the boys, a sexism if you will, there is no higher percentage of problematic boys than girls, standards differ, if a girl puts on a dress she’s wonderful, if the boy doesn’t learn 12 hours a day he’s horrible, that’s the attitude, i know many fine unmarried boys who just aren’t kollel types
1000s of girls? for every unmarried girl there’s an unmarried boy. why do you only mention one side of it? boys don’t matter to you? ahavas yisroel only applies to females?
In many respects the least modest women are the fake frum ones. If i go to Walmart, I see all the goyish ladies in their sweat pants and schmatas. Every now and then there’s one who is wearing something really alluring but mostly they look like a sloppy mess. You can usually look away from one immodest woman. The problem is when they are everywhere. And where is that? In frum neighborhoods!
The frum women wear skirts and sheer tights. I have no idea what the gentile lady’s legs look like but the frum women’s legs are there for all to see. They look less modest than gentile ladies in their pants. I was at a shiva call the other day and to my left were a whole row of ‘frum’ ladies with their legs crossed and their skirts above their knees. A few were even bouncing their legs. I felt like I was in a house of prostitution. And what about the hair. A normal human 50 year old woman has ragged middle aged hair. But not the frum woman. Her hair looks better now than it did when she was 15. I see 70 year old grandmothers with gorgeous wig hair. It’s nuts.
so one piece of advice, amazingly, you want to be around more modest women, get a job with gentiles, because the fake frum women are the worst.
All of these people are going to get gehennom. Don’t kid yourself.
I once walked up to Rabbi Miller, after a shiur, and I asked, “Do you think the woman around her are modest.” With a look of disgust on his face he said, “No.” this was in Flatbush obviously.
no i meant the guy making the post, you said you have a husband, so i see you are married
by the way, in my view, the most beautiful women in the world are the really modest chassidic ones, like almost every one of them, modesty brings out the neshama and there’s nothing more beautiful than a neshama, sounds like i’m spouting propaganda but i’m not. I’m telling you how i see it.
I am curious, are you married?
ignore what True Talk just told you, He/she took the when all else fails shame the person approach. You are you in a tough position and are seeking help. The problem isn’t you. The problem is that the community has failed you. Tznius is a mess today in America. When you go to a wedding in israel you can tell the Americans in the room by their shiny shells and heels. Their shetls hang to the floor. It’s a disgrace. They come to the Holy Land to sin. Many, not all, have no conception of what modesty is. They think a dress means modesty. They think a wig, any wig, means modesty.
They are supposed to be getting an education at home helping their mothers, raising their younger siblings. of course, that’s not usually what happens. Sleeping till noon is closer to the reality for many,
mrs shmo, so if you are saying some women don’t feel valued so they dress immodestly to get attention or some kind of fake value, could be. there are men who pretend to value their wives but it’s just talk, just an act. they’ll say my wife is the boss but really they have a low opinion of women. but some of these women don’t help their case because they give the impression that their highest value in life is a granite countertop. I know men that don’t value anybody except famous rabbis. it’s a big problem in the yeshiva world, that only torah study matters, so then women don’t matter and neither does hardly anybody else. i guess when you have 95% of the people feeling bad about themselves, anything can happen. my observation is that tzniyus is strongest in the chassidic world, yet i keep hearing that women are pushed around there. kind of invalidates your theory unless it’s not true that women aaren’t valued there. and i believe women are very valued in the chassidic world because many mitzvos not just torah study are valued there, so that supports your theory, bottom line, be tzniyus regardless of how anybody around you acts.
On the matzaivos of old, for women they’d write, here lies a modest women. That’s how important it is. How many mitzvos do women have and these women can’t even get this one right. There’s no excuse. Be disgusted by it and they’ll look less attractive to you. Use this as an opportunity to increase your Torah observance, to associate only with the best people. When people sin openly and repeatedly and cause others to sin you are allowed to feel disgust them with, to shun them, and that’s what you should you do. it will help. Also go to lunch at 2 pm or bring a lunch. Daven to Hashem that he gets you a better job. He will help you.
the old system was way better, the current system is highly flawed but it would be hard to go back in full, just try to get there as much as possible
Mrs. Shmo I think you are wrong. Somehow you make this the man’s fault. Everything on earth is the man’s fault including how his wife dresses? Really? Do the women have bechira or not? Do you have free choice or not? There certainly are men who need to tell their wives when they put on something immodest. most men, being wimps. don’t do it. But ultimately this is for grown women to do by themselves.
How do you feel about the Israel flag? The Zionists contributed significantly to the Holocaust. ,