Firstly, allow me to say that it is an absolute sin that most of the posters here are not in fact, kollel members. If you want to judge people on a grand scale, then do it with the defendants present as well. It’s not people in kollel’s fault that they don’t have so much time to burn in the YW coffee room because they are learning all day…

Secondly, anyone with half a brain should not be bringing in these ridiculous arguments by comparing us with previous generations, and saying that since everyone worked in past generations, it means everyone must do so today. Perhaps women’s equality has been the bracha that has allowed our kollel structure to work. Men are so much more adversely affected by this culture due to their raging yetzer horas. It is no secret that the decrepit state of morals in this country, and indeed around the world is crumbling. Democracy may work, but it also leads to immorality and too much freedom. Realize that part of the reason myself and all of the posters here are allowed to post on the CR is because the United States does not block internet access. Free speech protects us from prosecution in that regard.

THE RAMBAM’S GENERATION WAS DIFFERENT THAN OURS, SO BEFORE YOU START COMPARING HIS GENERATION TO OURS, TAKE THAT INTO ACCOUNT!

The Rambam says in Hilchos Talmud Torah, 1:12, that an example of someone who works is one who works 3 hours a day and learns 9 hours a day. In today’s day and age that is unheard of. In fact, the Rambam’s working guy is probably our generation’s learning guy between the 3 hours combined of talking on the cell phone, texting, coffee breaks, shmoozing a.k.a. “hock” breaks, and random wasted time. So first of all, both kollel guys and working guys have to realize that they leave a lot to be desired. With that said, it is not feasible in this country to find gainful employment for 3 hours a day. For the majority, with the exception of the select few who run their own business, which is very hard to do at a young age, a 9-to-5 is more apropos. That means that the learning is not where it should be. However, the metzius must have changed due to the society we leave in. There are two ways to approach this new metzius:

1) Respect the working people’s situation. Those who work must now do so 8 hours a day/40 hours a week, and they need to cut back on learning. Institute as many chavrusa programs between kollel and non-kollel as possible, a.k.a. a real Yissochor-Zevulun partnership.

2) Assur work, and look down upon all those who work. Also, if possible, go to kollel, so even if you don’t work 3 hours a day, you can learn 9 hours a day. (Maybe we can double count learning and tutoring as work.)

It is probably best to be a mixture of 1) & 2). Go to work, if necessary for parnassah, though many Meforshim do not assur work or hishtadlus for parnassah even if you are very rich. One reason is probably because they can support others learning Torah. If you are working, be responsible in terms of learning Torah. Treat Torah learning as your primary occupation, even if in raw hours terms it is not. If you are in kollel, respect those who work realizing that the people who have toiled and allowed you to sit in kollel are the ones you may snigger behind your back and derogatorily ridicule them for their Ba’al Habatishness and how they are avaryanim. Moshiach will come to a generation that is either completely righteous or completely wicked. Let us have some ahavas yisrael so that we can all merit from each others efforts.

Many communities on the East Coast, Flatbush in particular, is a community with the unfortunate “keeping up with the Joneses” concept. Because of this, it has become socially “cool”, if you will, to marry a guy because of his yeshiva. Don’t think there aren’t dozens of guys in Lakewood who don’t belong there. I’m not bashing the ones who do learn well, because they are in the majority. The big problem is the mechanchim who won’t push boys out to work if their talents lie there; they are scared of the stigma and the yeshivish-right. Then, what happens is that the guys who do eventually leave yeshiva leave it completely, having never been taught to temper their needs, as opposed to the guy who always thought he was doing the right thing by working, and being encouraged by his Rebbe, so he feels the desire to learn as much as he can.

The only reason that out-of-towners have adopted this as well is because the OOT girls meets the in town ones in camp and seminary, and develop similar biases. I know of a couple of great guys who learn more and are more productive than boys who are supposedly learning “full-time”.

The most important thing for a guy (or girl) is to do something with his life. If a guy is staying out of trouble, has a steady job that can support a home, and cares about Torah values and learn DAILY, then he is doing the right thing. There are countless meforshim that speak about the importance of earning a livelihood. Going to work is not bittul torah, but pretending to learn all day while hanging around IS bittul torah.