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‘someone in the Bronx Zoo when its 90 degrees out looks ridiculous.”
looks ridiculus to who? its shameful to hear that you are embarrassed of your own people for wearing the accepted garb for Torah learned individuals. you should be more embarrassed of how people in the Upper West Side, Teaneck and the 5 towns dress in 90 degree heat. the way some of these people dress in the summer makes them undistinguishable from the shaigitzis and shiksas around them. thats shameful and something to be embarassed of.
if they were only wearing yarmulkas they may not have been recognized as yeshiva bochurim because a black or dark blue yarmulka is not so easy to see on someones head especially during a blizzard. what is much more distinguishable is a black hat which is just pain easier to see in a blizzard.
“Also regarding that article, which indeed was a fine story – if the boys were merely wearing their Yarmulkes, even if dressed casually,”
and i always try to be correct…its amazing how you try to twist this as a proof your way when its so obviosly not but you apparently can never be wrong.
“Far better and more important that he is still a Yeshivah bachur when he is NOT in a uniform.”
it is not far better or more important. one should not delibrately put oneself in tests. ex: a person always dresses like a yeshiva bachur because he is one all the time and he acts like one so there is no reason for him to wear other clothes to prove he will act the same. and if he does wear other clothes and act the same then good for him but that its not better or more important.
“Their clothing was a uniform, but the uniform is not what set them apart.”
it did set them apart as yeshiva bochurim! if they werent dressed the way the were, the woman in the story would have no idea they were yeshiva bochurim. if they were dressed like some frum kids today;ex: jeans, sweatshirt, baseball hat (not saying thats wrong)the lady would not be able to have known they were frum kids
good point on the story mdlevine.
although im sure some anti yeshiva garb wearers will say well maybe it was a bunch of lawyers on the way to a meeting
im getting sick of this whole topic anyway but i see no reason why someone should be upset at a yeshiva bachur for wearing his uniform everyday. if someone is not against uniforms then whats the problem. even if that particular uniform seems to someone else uncomfortable in the summer months then so what. its his choice. its not like hes wearing a sweater and longjohns. hes just wearing a hat and jacket on a hot day. and if he wears it in chuck e cheese then whats the problem. hes still a yeshiva bachur when hes not in yeshiva so its still ok if hes wearing his uniform
im not understanding the whole crusade against uniforms. whats wrong with boys schools having uniforms and girls schools having uniforms.
sjs: if thats the norm where you live i hear that but if he walked into bmg dressed like that people may think this guy has no respect for shabbos although they dont know what he wears during the week
i have no problem with them wearing that on Shabbos but oomis apparently doesnt care about clothes yet cares enough to wear clothes that new york deems normal on Shabbos. the black hat and jacket is normal here but in communities in E”Y its not so i see nothing wrong with those communities wearing what they deem normal.
on the one hand you think people are wrong for thinking the levush make the man but then you would see something wrong if your son wore that on shabbos! if clothes dont matter to you, why should they on Shabbos. if he wore nice clean white pants with a nice pressed blue shirt on Shabbos what would be the problem if clothes dont do anything for a person. my point is clothes do make a person, whether that is right or wrong is a different discussion but in our society clothes make a difference so simply dress accordingly or ignore it and do what you want
so it wouldnt bother you if he wore khakis and a polo shirt on Shabbos, because he’ll act the same, right?
Pashuteh Yid
Member
“Because thats what the Gedolim wear so black and white is the Jewish garb for frum men”.
Flatbush27: Rav Scheinberg wears 50 pairs of tzitzis. Does that make it obligatory on other Jews? What the gedolim wear is for reasons best known to them, and not binding on the rest of us, nor part of halacha.
i never said it was obligatory. i never said it was halacha. if someone feels the need to be outside the box or mold for some reason or just enjoys going deeper into galus and dressing and acting and eating like a goy so be it.
So exactly what makes it “yeshivish” or even Jewish?
the Gedolim wear it so its the accepted dress for the yeshivish olam.
i take it your yekke
sls: your definitely right and i shouldnt assume about the Gedolim. and there really arent out of fashion suits. three piece are making a comeback. i see plenty of non jews wearing them and i also see some wearing double breasted suits so i think right now every suit is fine.
oomis:i already said my kids dont dress like yeshiva bochurim 365 so whoa. but i have no problem with people who do. why do you have a problem with bochurim wearing what they wear everyday of they year? maybe it simply bothers you that your not on their level and your jealous. im not implying that is the reason though but i mean like it inherently bothers you to see them dressed that way
sjs: a suit is suit. lets get real. a white shirt is a white shirt. two button or three button jackets or white on white shirts. its basically the same thing. your argument on that is really not withstanding. we dont all have to buy the same brand white shirt or suit, so each one will be slightly different from the next one. and if the uniform meant nothing then why do our Gedolim wear it every day! Gedolim do everything they do for a reason. they are not walking arond in a blue pressed shirt. or brown dress shoes. or jeans on a casual day. they wear dark pants, white shirts, hats and jackets.
sjs:because thats what the Gedolim wear so black and white is the Jewish garb for frum men. i have no problem with people wearing otherwise. my kids wear colored shirts on days off from yeshiva. but why cant you respect a yid who wants to dress like a yid everyday, rain or shine. and yes the clothes were made by goyim but that doesnt make it not our garb, not that im saying its halacha although we are not supposed to dress like the goyim but the thing is we are not changing our uniform every season. the goyim have new styles every spring fall and winter! for us we are still wearing black pants and white shirts with hats and jackets even though the goyim decided thats not the style this year or last year or whatever. my point is no matter how much the fashion styles change in the goy’s society, ours doesnt., or at least shouldnt
no there really arent any true Gedolim that dress like the goyim. as Yidden we have our own dress. im not sure why you refuse to see that. we as Yidden should dress differently than goyim.
i never heard of a yeshiva guy getting a heat stroke from wearing a hat and jacket. im not saying it never happened but i dont think its a big enough reason to tell them not to wear it. its their business. as for the uniform thing. i definitely hear your point and chofetz chaim wears light suits. but this black pants, white shirt, hat and jacket uniform is what the Gedolim wear and for alot of people thats the reason they wear it.
“oomis: i said this before on that issue: “if shes not keeping whichever halacha of tznius why on earth should i assume shes keeping every halacha of kashrus? im not saying she isnt though.”
i will not assume she does not keep kosher stringently but what im saying is she very well may be. and in restaurants there are mashgichim and if there werent i wouldnrt eat there.
“Now I do wonder if anybody has gotten a heat stroke from wearing a suit in the park…”
people dont just get heat strokes from wearing a suit in hot weather. go to manhattan in august. everyone wears a suit and i never saw people dropping like flies. you really dont hear about bochurim or rebbeim getting heat strokes because their wearing a hat and jacket. they drink water and go on with life. your reason of a heat stroke to not wear a jacket is far fetched because it simply doesnt happen often enough. fight some real issues that go in the summer, not bochurim wearing jackets. maybe fight the tznius issues on central in hot weather than yeshiva bochurim wearing jackets. or
jewess: i said this in the same comment: “im not saying she isnt though.”
sjs: i eat by people i trust. everyone makes mistakes whether lashon hara or a blech. but if i see a woman wearing shorts and a t shirt in public i will not eat there and i assure you that the frum velt wont either.
oomis: when i have time to read your megilla il comment on it but until then youl have to hold your breath
“It’s easy to say “Don’t judge me by the way I dress”, but the way we dress DOES say about the person that we are. I have finally learned this and come to term with this fact.”
nicely said.
mayan: or we can simple tell them its not tznius privately. easier and mutar
i was not intending to qoute you. i was just trying to describe the type of people. if i see a frum person not dressed tzniusdig, and i dont mean not in the so called mold. i mean untznius. then i would not eat in her home. if shes not keeping whichever halacha of tznius why on earth should i assume shes keeping every halacha of kashrus? im not saying she isnt though. i just am not going to assume she does. i heard in a shiur once eating treifus and the like affects a persons actions. and the rav brought the zionist leaders as proofs.
gaw: i didnt ask in the case of if it would cause a chillul Hashem although to stand up for what the Gedolim say (whether you believe the Gedolim said it…)then it wouldnt be a chillul Hashem in front of the anti frum zionists. so lets ‘forget’ about the Gedolim, and lets say it doesnt cause a chillul Hashem then do you oppose it
oomis: its getting comical how you are always bashing the ‘frummy black hatters yeshivish type’ that they are so judgemental on you. you are so judgemental on us! you think we are all judging you! you stereotype all of us as if we all look down upon you because you dont fit the ‘mold’ that others do! give the benefit of the doubt to people. maybe her comment came out differently as wanted and she didnt mean that or you took it the wrong way.
gaw: so you oppose seperate seating on buses
and obama wears a white shirt and jacket. guess hes a frum Yid.
it doesnt matter how silly and dumb the clothing may look. look at the chassidim. im just trying to point out that we dress like Yidden and not like goyim and i think clothing and appearance tells alot about a person but not in every case. i definitely dont think if your not wearing a white shirt your wearing jeans and a tee. i would see no problem if they took off their hat and jacket on a hot day but why is it a problem if they leave it on when the only excuse oomis has is she cant answer her shiksa neighbor. if they want to shvitz thats their issue unless they have horrible BO which may trigger s chillul Hashem. also if they didnt wear a white shirt and black pants while playing ball would definitely not be an issue for me as would be the case for many more instances.
guess i thought i hit the send post button and didnt before. sorry mod72
so i guess it wasint posted for some reason. (What wasn’t posted? YW Moderator-72)
oomis: you still never really answered the question. would you mind at all if your son dressed like that on a normal regular day? according to you he would act the same so what would be the problem. for some reason apparently you believe Yidden dont have to dress like Yidden and you would see no problem if we dressed like goyim. correct me if im wrong and i am in no way trying to be mean or nasty.
yoss: the uniform is not always going to protect. unfortunately i think we have all seen guys wearing black pants and white shirts not acting the way they should. but any Rebbi will tell you dress does matter. why do you think our yeshivas have uniforms?
wheres my other post
“I don’t have that same need, but I can see that it is very important to others.”
so you dont mind if your son wore ripped jeans falling off and a sleeveless t shirt with flip flops and a du rag? dress does matter oomis whether or not you convince yourself it doesnt. Yidden dress like Yidden and goyim dress like goyim. period. when you start dressing like a goy you start acting like a goy. if you think a bachur (even an excellent one) is going to act the same wearing the above mentioned outfit as his bachur outfit your wrong
EVERYBODY: i never said anywhere they should wear their jacket in hot weather. i would not see anything wrong if they took it off. thats perfectly acceptable. but i also dont see a problem if they wear it. the chassidim wear their levush and the yeshivish have theirs. why does it bother people if they wear it? goyim probably think we look wierd wearing it on a cool day! chassidim wearing their long coats with a vest and a hat and litvish with their hats and jackets isnt ‘normal’ in their society so whether it be cool or hot they think we are wierd and thats not a chillul Hashem in any way! Putting on Tefilin in a packed airport terminal is in no way a Chillul Hashem when hundreds are looking at you funny!
“NO NON-JEW respects the Jews for dressing that way in the summer. It makes them physically uncomfortable to see us that way, and they think we are “morons.” That is a direct quote from my neighbor, who cannot fathom why she sees Jewish men walking around like that. I have no answer for her, because I think it is wrong, too. And during the Nine Days when they are dressed like that and not showering… THAT potentially causes a major chillul Hashem.”
i agree with joseph. who gives a flying hoot if a goy thinks we are morons for wearing our accepted uniform! it is rather pathedic you feel that its wrong for people to wear a hat and jacket in hot wheather. should women also atart dressing down in the summer c”v, because your neighbor thinks its ridiculus that our women must cover their elbow and knees etc etc? should we eat on Yom Kippur c”v because your neighbor finds it mind boggling that we fast an entire day?! i could go on and on
people here are saying that people are wearing their hat and jackets in hot weather. the people wearing them dont look at it this way. they dont say, oh its really hot today lets wear the hat and jacket. they wear it everyday. its the accepted uniform of a yeshiva guy. they are not trying to “out frum” anyone by wearing it. they feel the hat and jacket is just like wearing a white shirt and dark pants. whats the problem? unfortunately we see too many of our teens wearing the levush of the goyim, we should be thanful they are wearing the bachurs uniform.
i copied and pasted all the snapple facts but i guess they didnt feel like going through all of them.just so ya know mods i skimmed them and they were fine
it takes 40 days to break a habit