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Jayk: The $2 that the clerk kept was part of the $9 that they paid. $25 for the room, and $2 that the clerk kept.
The other $3 was returned to the travelers.
ICOT:
530890+5614874=6145764
gmab: I think slaughterhouses are free of tzaar baalei chaim. Can you bring some proof against that?
I agree that these may or may not be true, but make sure you take them with a grain of salt!
mariner, we know exactly what year certain events occurred in! We’re currently in 5769, right? If you look in the chumash, you can figure out that Avraham was born in the year 1948. Yitzchak was born 100 years later, so that’s 2048. We know that the Jews left Mitzrayim 400 years after Yitzchak was born, so that’s the year 2448. We’re not missing years there.
Now, since we’re going to make Birchas Hachama this year, in 5769 (an odd numbered year), it can’t have been done in 2448 (an even numbered year), since it must always have been in an odd numbered year.
GMAB, feminist: if you do some research, you’ll find that Rav Kook wasn’t really a vegetarian. He wrote a pamphlet about his vision for a perfect world, where he said that maybe people would be on the level before the flood and wouldn’t eat meat anymore, but he never advocated being a vegetarian now. He ate only vegetables for a small while for health reasons, but was not a vegetarian for most of his life.
Do some research, you’ll find it.
gmab: I very much enjoy eating meat. My oneg Shabbos wouldn’t be the same without having a nice hot cholent with a good piece of meat in it. I’m not just saying that, I’ve had times where I didn’t have a cholent, and I told my wife it just didn’t feel like a real Shabbos without it.
Therefore, for oneg Shabbos, I need to eat meat.
Does that satisfy you?
Remember, when Moshiach comes, you will eat a Korban Pesach, and probably won’t have any problem with it.
gmab: Because the Torah gives guidelines for how to eat meat, and even gives vertain situations where a person MUST eat meat.
Shechita doesn’t have the animals suffering. It is the most humane way of killing an animal. Yes, I know you’ve said that the treatment of the animals up to that point is an issue. That may be, but that doesn’t make it assur to eat the animal. The treatment is a separate issue.
At the store where I buy my meat, they have a sign which goes through all the ways the cattle they use are treated humanely. No force feeding, no tiny pens, etc. Would you be ok with that?
There is a good medrash (or possibly kabbalistic source, I don’t remember), sammyjoe: I heard from one of my Rabbeim that before Mashiach comes, the B’nei Yishmael will rule over most of the world, and that Jews that are descended from Amalek will rule over Eretz Yisrael. Olmert probably fits the bill for Israel, now we have Obama here. Mashiach is definitely close!
I have to agree with cantoresq. Music is something which speaks to the soul, and the right tune can really transform a davening.
The nusach was established to do just that. Of course, you need a chazzan who is really trying to daven a meaningful davening, not just someone who is trying to make himself sound good, and enjoys listening to himself. It takes a special person to do that, but ultimately, the nusach, when used properly, does have an effect on the davening.
Imagine Kol Nidrei without the nusach for it, and how it would change the davening.
Knowing nusach doesn’t necessarily mean a long, schlepped out davening. Yes, some cantors do tend to go very long, but many others don’t. Nusach for Shabbos and Yom Tov davening definitely doesn’t make it take any longer – in fact, it’s often quicker than singing everything.
PM, the issue isn’t whether the blade comes in contact with the skin or not. The issue is whether the hair is cut by one blade on its own, like a razor, or whether the hair needs to be between the blade and either another blade, or the side of a hole, in order to get cut. A razor cuts on its own, without any help. If it needs to push the hair against something else to cut it, it’s like a scissors, and is ok.
I daven for the ammud a decent amount, and try not to sing too much. I use mainly nusach, not tunes that I’m attaching to words.
I’ve actually gotten complaints at times that I should sing more, but I refuse.
The only times I’ll use songs are for Lecha Dodi, Kel Adon, and during Hallel, for Hodu and Pischu Li. For other things, I’ll use the proper nusach.
I daven for the amud somewhere on Yomim Noraim, and I don’t sing too much. I sing some, because my Rosh Yeshiva once said that you should. He said he asked his Rebbe, R’ Shmuel Berenbaum zt”l about it when he started having a minyan in his yeshiva for Yomom Noraim. In the Mir, they don’t sing at all, as far as I know – just nusach.
R’ Shmuel zt”l told him that he should sing, because people today wouldn’t be able to handle the davening without it, they’d just lose their minds.
Because of that, I sing a little bit, during a piece – but almost never the whole piece. Nusach is there for a reason.
Joseph, who says young drivers cause more accidents? Maybe it’s the inexperience which causes it, and starting at 20 won’t make a difference.
From all my friends, very few drove like maniacs when they were teenagers first starting to drive. The ones that did still drive like that now, 10 years later.
As I said, I don’t think it’s the age, it’s the lack of experience, which will happen at any age.
How would you feel if your daughter was on a date with a guy who just started driving a month earlier? I bet you’d feel a lot safer if he had 5 years of experience under his belt already.
chalish, I have a TV in my house. No, I don’t put it on a timer for Shabbos.
You have the wrong idea of what MO is. It doesn’t mean you keep the basic 3 mitzvos only, and Yomim Tovim.
Most MO men daven with a minyan 3 times a day, have a seder to learn, etc. They might not wear a hat and jacket when they daven. They might have a TV in their house. They might wear a knit or leather kippah, not a velvet one.
So many people have these ideas of what Modern Orthodoxy is. Go into the YU Beis Medrash at night, and see what Moder Orthodox Judaism is about.
chalish, you are so wrong! Modern Orthodoxy does not have a pick and choose attitude.
I consider myself Modern Orthodox, and live in an area which is mostly Modern Orthodox.
My wife does not wear pants. She covers her hair. I wear a kippah on my head. So I don’t wear black and white all the time – so what? Do I need black and white to separate myself from non-Jews?
MO does not say pick and choose. Are there MO people who don’t keep certain things? Yes. However, ask any MO Rav, and he will tell you to keep them. No MO Rav will tell you it’s ok for a married woman to keep her hair uncovered. Do some do it anyway? Of course. That doesn’t mean MO endorses it. Plenty of so-called yeshivish people or chassidish people do things against halachah also. A chassidish guy once tried to grab my wife as she walked by him in a store (with me a few feet away, no less). Does that mean chassidus holds it’s ok for a man to touch a woman? Of course not! The same applies to MO.
You say the majority of the MO kids you know end up not frum. Well, where I live, the vast majority of them stay frum. Maybe some yeshivish people wouldn’t consider them frum, but most people I know do consider them frum. I know far more people who started out yeshivish or chassidish and ended up totally frei.
If you can show one thing which MO as a whole endorses which is against halachah, I’d appreciate it. I have a feeling you’re going to have a hard time producing one.
One thing: I meant to say “I always said”, not “always say”. I try not to say it anymore, because I do try not to judge people. I stand by it when it comes to many people, such as Joseph, who has no problem criticizing people who don’t live their lives the way he does. Read through his posts, and you’ll see it. He judges all the time, often very harshly.
As for my statement, and what I think of it now, I think it does apply to many people. There are two main Roshei Yeshiva in the Yeshiva I learned in. I have a great, close, relationship with one of them. The other one I don’t like too much. When I told him I was going to college, he told me I was throwing my life away. He said I didn’t give learning enough of a chance, and that I had the potential to be a gadol hador. I told him that I didn’t enjoy sitting and learning, and that based on what I saw of people who did, I didn’t want to be like that. I told him that most of them were very judgmental, often criticizing me, etc. One of them even snuck into my room in the dormitory, and took some books I had, because he felt they didn’t belong in the dorm. He gave them to this Rosh Yeshiva, who informed me that he had burned them. He refused to discuss with me whether the bochur was right or wrong in what he did, only telling me the books weren’t allowed in the dorm.
I asked him why I should want to be like the “elter bochurim”, if all they did was make my life miserable. He said I needed to separate the learning from the actions. I told him I was always taught “derech eretz kodma laTorah”, and that the people weren’t following it. I said, if they are all like that, obviously there is some connection to sitting and learning, and being disgusting to those who aren’t doing the same. He told me he’d get back to me with an answer. he never did. He did, however, try to kick me out of the yeshiva. The other Rosh Yeshiva, who I’m very close with, wouldn’t let him. He had advised me to go to college. He understood me. The actions of the other people, however, were a large part of what drove me to not be frum anymore. It started by saying I wasn’t interested in learning, and it snowballed from there.
Nowadays, I see a lot of the same when it comes to younger bochurim – high school, and early beis medrash. When they get older, and get married, they see what the real world is, and become more tolerant. It happened with my siblings, and many friends of mine. The younger people, however, need to learn that people who don’t sit and learn can also be good Jews. People can not be as machmir as you, and still be good Jews. Should you call my wife dirty names because she has a slit in her skirt? Can you show me where it says in Mishna Brurah that a woman can’t have a slit in her skirt? yes, there are seforim written now about tznius that may say it, but where is it brought down from? The fact that it’s “accepted” now?
People look down on me because I wear a wedding ring. Especially when I visit my parents I Brooklyn, I get funny looks. However, on Simchas Torah, an old man in the shul where my parents daven asked if I was born in Europe. He said that in Europe, the custom was for men to wear a wedding ring. I know that grandfather wore one – my father has it now, although he didn’t wear it. For this, I get dirty looks? In Europe they did it, now it makes you not frum?
The fact is, many people in the Yeshivish world look down on those who don’t sit and learn. it’s been discussed here many times. It’s not everyone, but it’s a very large group.
As I’ve written before, I wasn’t frum for a while. I was lucky enough to find my way back, although not in a way my family always approves of (most of my brothers went to Brisk, Lakewood, etc.)
Believe me, at the time when you decide to not be frum, you really do thin you’re happy. After all, being frum obviously didn’t work for you, and compared to that, you’re really happy. I had Rabbeim who publicly humiliated me, told me I was wasting my life, etc. I asked many questions, and rarely got answers. I was miserable. I decided I didn’t want to be frum. No drugs, no alcohol (aside from an occasional beer, but no heavy drinking), just not frum. I thought I was happy. I was in college, was working, had a girlfriend – what was I lacking? It took me a while to realize I wasn’t really happy. Yes, during the day, while I was doing things, I felt great. But at night, lying in my bed, I just felt wrong. I knew I was missing something.
It wasn’t easy coming back. Many things were difficult to stop, and I still have difficulty with many issues. Breaking up with the girl I was dating was incredibly tough. Going back to kosher, keeping Shabbos, they were all hard. But I kept pushing, and while I’m not where I want to eventually be, I think I’m well on my way.
Telling people, like muchcommonsense did, that they’re not happy just helps push people farther away. Being judgmental, like Joseph always is, and always looking for the wrong in people’s actions, also just pushes people away. I always say that Yeshivish people dress in black and white because that’s how they see the world – no gray area at all.
Not being frum often seems great, especially when you compare it to the bad experience you might have had being frum. It takes a strong will, and some good examples of what a good, frum person is like, to find your way back. It also takes time, until you realize that you’re ready for it.
jewishfeminist02: Your point about wearing canvas shoes on Yom Kippur is a good one. I was talking to my uncle on Sukkos. He learned in Emek Halachah, under R’ Tuvia Goldstein zt”l, and he said that R’ Tuvia used to forbid wearing any shoes or sneakers on Yom Kippur, because the Torah says to afflict yourself, and he held they don’t do that. My uncle told me R’ Tuvia and the students in the yeshiva used to wear galoshes on Yom Kippur!
Which part of zevi8’s post was beautiful? Where he called someone a dim wit? Or asked if someone is smarter than Shlomo HaMelech? Remember, Shlomo ate meat (when the Beis Hamikdash was built, he brought many korbanos).
I had a mixed experience with Bikur Cholims.
My wife was in Mt. Sinai hospital for a number of weeks, due to a difficult and complicated pregnancy. The bikur cholim gave her daily food, people came to visit, etc. The volunteers were fantastic!
However, not all of them were so great. One day, I drove in to visit my wife. Now, there is on-street parking by the hospital on 5th Avenue, with meters. usually you can find a spot. That day, I circled around for close to 15 minutes. Finally, I saw someone getting into his car to leave. I pulled over behind him. After he pulled out, I put on my turn signal, pulled in front of the spot, and shifted into reverse to back into the spot. Well, a van comes up behind me and blocks me from the spot. I honk, but he doesn’t move. Finally, he tries to pull in head-first. It wasn’t pretty, but he somehow managed to do it, going up onto the sidewalk in the process. Anyway, on my next circle around, I found a spot. It was around the corner, not right in front like the first spot had been.
I walked to the hospital, and when I passed the van, I saw a chassidish man unloading food. the van had “Satmar Bikur Cholim” written on the side. I told the man he stole my parking spot. He replied that he needed to deliver the food, and the spot was too good to pass up, as the food can get heavy. I told him to enjoy the “reward” he’d get for delivering his food that day, as I did not forgive him for stealing my spot.
As I said, most volunteers really were great. They gave my wife food daily, and even provided food for me when I was there for Shabbos. However, some people think that because they’re doing a mitzvah, it gives them the right to do some pretty terrible things.
There was a case of this last year that was highly publicized – a radio station held a water-drinking contest, and someone died. A doctor said it was because of the electrolyte balance being off. All you have to do is drink something with electrolytes, such as Powerade, and you’ll be ok.
I have some organizations I support, but the majority of letters I get don’t get responses. I simply don’t have the money to do it. I donate to Bonei Olam whenever I can, and that is the main tzedaka I give to. There is a kollel program (I don’t remember what it’s called) that tests kollel guys on their learning, and pays a certain amount for a high score. I give to them because I know the money is going to guys who are really learning, not just in kollel because it’s the “thing to do”.
Here and there, I’ll give to some others also.
Try using Pathways to Prayer for Shemonah Esrei. It helps you understand exactly what every word means, and gives your davening a huge boost. It works great for me.
gmab: and who says nowadays that the methods of farming used are assur? You? The big Rabbonim at PETA? No major Rav paskens that the methods are assur.
Even R’ Kook, who is held up as the example of a Jewish Rabbi who was a vegetarian, wasn’t really one. Do some research, and you’ll see that. He did hold that when Moshiach comes, the world will revert to what it was originally, and we won’t eat meat. Until then, however, he never said it was assur. His son, R’ Tzvi Yehudah, was a vegetarian for a short time, but because of health reasons, not halachic concerns.
Actually, the world being old does contradict the Torah. The Torah lays out dates for when things happened. It says Adam was created on the 6th day, right? If you follow the years of the ages when children were born, you can see that Avraham was born in (I believe) 1948. Yitzchak was born in 2048. We know the Jews went out of Egypt 400 years after Yitzchak was born, so that’s 2448, as was matan Torah. You can follow the years from there to calculate the year we are in now. Saying the world is millions of years old does contradict the Torah.
Just a reminder to anyone who spoke loshon hara or MSR about YU or any of the gedolim there, whether in the thread about the teacher at Stern, or the various R’ Tendler threads, you only have a few days left to ask for mechilah!
000646: I heard one reason why Hashem created the world with fossils and other things like them.
There is a rule that whenever Hashem does something miraculous, He always includes a way to possibl explain it as normal. That’s why the wind blew all night before the Yam Suf split.
So, Hashem created the world, which was obviously a big miracle. He created fossils and other things looking really old so that people would have a way to explain it as a natural occurrence if they choose to.
As for eating meat, the Torah didn’t just say what was ok to eat – it says “osam tocheilu”, these you SHOULD eat. As others wrote, there are times when there’s a mitzvah to eat meat. How can you say Hashem didn’t intend for us to eat meat? The Torah says you should eat meat. Now, obviously, you have to treat the animals properly. However, if animals aren’t treated properly, you shouldn’t say, ‘Well, I won’t eat meat.” You can say you wouldn’t use a specific slaughterhouse because of it. But to say all eating meat is wrong because some slaughterhouses do things wrong is just stupid.
Actually, I don’t believe that halachically, abortion is considered murder at all. It’s assur, yes, but not murder. After all, there are halachos about what the penalty is for someone who causes a woman to miscarry a pregnancy, and such a person does not get killed. Therefore, it’s not murder. It’s a different issur.
No Jospeh, you didn’t address the main point that cantoresq and I made. In the old days, only a select few sat and learned. You can’t compare that to today, where a huge percentage sit and learn all day. The money to support them has to come from somewhere.
I once asked my Rosh Yeshiva why so many people are encouraged to sit in kollel all day, when that was never the norm before. he told me that after WW2, we had lost so many gedolim, and Frum Judaism was in bad shape. Many people were leaving yiddishkeit because of their experiences. He said that we needed to rebuild, and needed to produce gedolim to do that. He said that’s why the kollel lifestyle was encouraged like never before.
I think that now, we have the gedolim we need. The Baal Teshuva movement is stronger than it’s ever been. It’s time to go back to the way things were.
I agree with you on some points. A girl shouldn’t be turned down sight unseen. However, to say that weight shouldn’t be a factor at all is ridiculous. A man must find his wife attractive. If a guy doesn’t think the girl is good-looking, he shouldn’t marry her.
Something once happened to a friend of mine from Yeshiva. He asked our Rosh Yeshiva for advice. he was dating a girl. The conversation was great, they were on the same page hashkafically, etc. He had one problem: he didn’t think she was good looking at all. As he told the Rosh Yeshiva, “I could probably talk to her on the phone for hours. Even in person, once the conversation gets going, it’s great. I just don’t like the way she looks!” The Rosh Yeshiva told him to end the shidduch. My friend asked, “Since when do we put such an emphasis on looks?” The Rosh Yeshiva told him that you must be attracted to your wife, or the marriage will never work.
Yeshivish men wear black and white because that is how most of them view the world – in black and white, without any gray areas at all.
People did live in poverty, and managed to get by, in the past. They managed by having members of their communities help them. However, now, the amount of people who want the help is greater than it’s been in a very long time, possibly greater than it has ever been. There simply won’t be enough to go around. People will want to be supported in kollel, but there won’t be people to pay for the support.
The Gemara in Kiddushin says a father is obligated to teach his son a trade. In a kesubah, it says the husband will feed and clothe his wife, not the other way around.
The way it should work is that the majority of people should be working, of course with sedarim in the morning or evenings (or both). A select group will sit and learn all day, and be supported fully. Not the small amount that a standard kollel pays, but the amount which a regular job would pay. That is the real Yissachar/Zevulun partnership, which is missing today. A person like that is fulfilling his kesubah, as with his learning, he is supporting his wife, not the other way around.
I don’t think any tefillah is “holier” than another. They are just for different things. A tefillah is only as holy as the person davening makes it. Neilah is definitely more emotional, because it’s sort of a last chance before the gates are closed. Does that make the tefillah itself holier? I don’t think so. You can argue that mussaf, which goes through the entire avodah which was done in the Beis Hamikdash, is holier because of its contents. As I said, a tefillah is only as holy as the person davening makes it.
It’s not so simple. There’s a difference between requiring them to work on Shabbos, and someone choosing to. For example, if you own a store, you can’t make non-Jews open it on Shabbos for you, because you’re requiring them to work. However, let’s say you ask an employee to do some research on a product for you. On Shabbos, he decides, on his own, to do some work from his home computer. You didn’t ask him to do it then. He could have done it on Friday, or on Sunday, if he wanted. That might be ok.
Ask your Rabbi, you won’t get a real psak here.
intelligent, your analogy is ridiculous. These desires are a basic human nature, it’s the way Hashem created us. Ask any Rav if it’s normal to not have any urges before marriage, they’ll tell you everyone has them, and something is wrong if you don’t.
S: You had no such desires before you were married? There’s something wrong with you then. Countless gedolim, for thousands of years, have said people have these desires, and need to control them. If you didn’t have them, obviously it’s an issue with you.
Also, don’t think that chassidim have it all nice without any issues. Believe me, I know many chassidim who do improper things also. When I lived in Brooklyn, I was once in a video store renting a movie. The owner told me that he had plenty of chassidish customers, and they didn’t rent the regular videos, if you know what I mean. He even showed me a surveillance photo from the downstairs area of a chassidish couple (in full chassidish levush) checking out his selection.
Who appointed this as the “Jewish National Anthem”? Isn’t it currently used only by the reshoim who are self-hating Jews?
Judaism doesn’t really have a “National Anthem”. By definition, a national anthem is for a country – isn’t that what “national” means? Israel has a national anthem. Judaism doesn’t. It can be the anthem for a group (such as Neturei Karta), but it’s not a national anthem.
If ther e was an anthem for the Jewish people, I like Jewess’s idea – Shema is better suited.
Wasn’t there a separate thread for recipes? Editor, can you move these there please?
Take some chicken breasts, and marinate them for a few hours in just some soy sauce and garlic. Stick them on the grill, flip them once.
One thing she said actually was said better than others have said it in the past:
“On to the topic of the hour: learning versus working guys. After much thought, growth, experience, etc., this is my conclusion: The boys that are learning and CAN learn are on a different caliber.”
Yes, those boys are DIFFERENT. Not BETTER, just DIFFERENT. I don’t know if she meant it that way or not, but that’s what it is.
Jewel, as Joseph said, it’s important to have a Rabbi to guide you. I don’t know how old you are, or where you’re holding in life, but if you have a few months available, you might consider going back to Israel to Neve for a while. They have an excellent Mechinah program for people who are newly religious. Don’t let random people tell you to start with A, or B, r to avoid C, etc. For actions, ask a Rabbi.
As for books to read, two great books are from R’ Kelemen – Permission to Receive and Permission to Believe. They go into proof that there is a G-d, and the divinity of the Torah. I think these are a must for Baalei Teshuva, and highly recommend them.
chachom, it’s not just stories the Zionists made up. By the way, what’s wrong with being a Zionist exactly?
It’s well known out there that these people will attack you if you aren’t dressed properly. People from those groups have been arrested. There have been stores burned down when they didn’t think the store sold appropriate things (I know, I have family members who saw it happen). These people really are thugs who try to force their way onto everyone.
This Va’ad Hatznius doesn’t have any real Gedolim behind it. In fact, many Gedolim spoke out AGAINST the actions these people take. I’m not saying lashon hara against any Gedolim – in fact, I support them!
If there is another group called the Va’ad Hatznius which has the backing of the gedolim, and they are the ones behind this, then I apologize to them. However, I believe the fanatics are behind this.
Joseph, according to that posuk, why are women in Lakewood and other places going out to work multiple jobs? Shouldn’t they be at home taking care of the house, kids, etc. instead of working to support their husbands?
Maybe we should make up a new kesuba for kollel families, where, instead of it saying the husband will provide for the wife, it says the opposite – the wife will provide for the husband.
GreatAspirations: You’re right, the way it was said made he difference. One way says you’re not interested in him opening the door at all, one says in this specific case, you’re trying to help him out.
As for after marriage, true, I don’t always open the car door or other door for my wife, but I still do it many times. Holding open a regular door happens more often, and I get a smile and a thank you. When I open the car door for her, her face really lights up with a smile. I don’t do it every time, because I don’t want that to fade. It’s also difficult when we’re each strapping a kid into the back seat.
chachom: You mean I should run around throwing bleach on people who aren’t dressed as the most stringent views hold?
Ask a Rav. People here aren’t poskim.
The Vaad Hatznius in Israel is just a bunch of thugs who run around terrorizing people.
rabbiofberlin, you mentioned a woman singing is not simple, I’ll even give an example: R’ Tuvia Goldstein zt”l held that if a family usually has women (wives or daughters) who sing at the Shabbos table, and you have guests over for Shabbos, the women were allowed to sing! I heard this from my uncle, who learned under R’ Goldstein zt”l for years in Emek Halachah. He told guests that was R’ Goldstein’s psak, but didn’t want them to be uncomfortable, so he would check before giving his daughters the ok.
Yes, I confirmed this psak with other talmidim of R’ Goldstein zt”l.
af al pi cain: I try. My wife and I host many baalei teshuva for Shabbos meals (we did until my wife recently gave birth, hopefully we’ll start again soon!) and I worked for NCSY on Shabbatons until I got married.