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squeak: you say Lakewood is the epitome of Torah. I disagree. Lakewood teaches people that it’s ok not to fulfill what it says in your kesubah. It teaches people that it’s ok to make your wife work 2 jobs so that you can sit and learn. That you can look down on people who aren’t doing that, and tell them they’re second best.
That’s not the epitome of Torah.
YU does not teach that science is equal to Torah. They may teach that science, mathematics, and other subjects are a part of Torah, which they are – they are needed to understand many sugyos in Shas. So yes, people need to understand them in order to understand Torah better. The Gemara says a person is obligated to teach his son a trade. YU teaches a trade, so if a father sends his son there, he is doing his job. As I said, you know nothing about it, only what you’ve been told by others who know nothing about it.
chaverim: I would be the laughingstock of Lakewood kollel guys, not the entire Jewish world. More people than you care to admit agree with what I said. As for my defending YU, it’s not because it has basis in fact, it’s because I don’t care to see many Rabbonim insulted and slandered by the likes of people here. Squeak should be calling these Rabbonim and begging their forgiveness.
The fact is, if you walk into the YU Beis Medrash any night, you’ll see hundreds if not thousands of guys sitting and learning. How would you explain that?
squeak: You insult something you know nothing about. Many Gedolim come from YU, and may Gedolim endorse it and teach there. Who are you to insult the likes of R’ Shechter, R’ Willig, and others of their caliber? Who are you to insult the Rav zt”l?
You say that YU took the proper derech haTorah and ruined it. I can make the same claim about R’ Ahron Kotler and Lakewood. The Gemara says in Kiddushin that a father is required to teach his son a trade. In the kesubos that everyone uses when they get married, it says that the husband will support his wife, not the other way around. The husband is required to provide his wife with food, clothing, and other items. How many people in Lakewood do that? Throughout history, there was never such a thing as the kollel. Only the best and brightest, the future leaders, were sitting and learning. Everyone else went out to support their family.
So, now, who took traditional Judaism and changed it?
Some people will refuse to refer to someone who gives a shiur in YU as a Rabbi, or won’t refer to him as “Rav” – only as Mr.
How would you feel if I said “Mr. Kotler ruined traditional Judaism”?
You can also learn that sometimes, someone you think isn’t Jewish really is. That can affect all sorts of things. If you’re in a store with a clerk who doesn’t look Jewish, and you get too much change, you might think you can keep it – taos akum is ok, right? Well, who says the clerk or owner isn’t Jewish, just because of the way they look?
chaverim, doesn’t it say that Jews can’t take control of EY by force before Mashiach comes? They didn’t get EY by force, it was given peacefully by a UN vote. After it was established, it was defended numerous times, but it wasn’t initially conquered by force.
gavra, do you think Touro has such great teachers? I graduated from Touro in Brooklyn. I had a professor who was as liberal as they come. He favored gay marriage, said that Dinkins was the best mayor NYC ever had because he didn’t pick on blacks, said that newspapers could write whatever they want with whatever bias they want because of free speech, etc.
I know someone who started attending Touro’s new Social Work graduate program. They were told they’d have to accept gay marriage, and even encourage people to accept their homosexuality. When they asked if they could refer gay clients away, they were told they’d never make it as a social worker.
Like you said, you know nothing about either school.
KiloBear, you said “And the fact is that with freedom for Jews everywhere but Iran (and that may come too if the riots get out of control and topple the Hamanite regime), we do not need the Zionist state.”
I’m sure the Jews in Germany in the 1930s thought the same way. The fact is, anti-semitism exists everywhere, and things can change in an instant in any country.
chaverim, the fact is that these organizations run the same way. They used to stand for something, but now they just care about money and influence. You say I only attacked Torah Umesorah – what about my statement re: Bloomberg? Do you have no opinion on that?
artchill was right: since R’ Sherer zt”l passed away, the Agudah has gone downhill. The inmates are running the asylum.
This probably won’t get published, but I’ll write it anyway:
Politics now rule the Agudah. Take, for example, their recent dinner, where Bloomberg was honored. Bloomberg, who is a firm supporter of gay marriages. R’ Gifter zt”l, in his famous speech against R’ Dr. Norman Lamm, spoke about selling out the Torah for government dollars. Honoring Bloomberg at the Agudah dinner was the same thing. Yes, Bloomberg helps many Jewish schools get government funding. So what? He is a firm supporter of what the Torah describes as an abomination. Honoring him because of some money places a price tag on how much you value the Torah. I’m sure that R’ Gifter zt”l would have gotten up and spoke against such a thing, had he been there. But, as I said, the Agudah is now run by politics. Look at the issues with the Agudah and Torah Umesorah when it came to the child molestation issue! Torah Umesorah refused to get involved because it would open themselves up to a potential lawsuit. They later denied ever knowing about it to avoid being sued. Instead of helping the victims, and preventing more cases, they were worried about the cost to them.
These are my issues with Agudah. The fact that they are against YU and Modern Orthodoxy as a whole is another thing, but not as big as the ones I mentioned. If you believe your way is right, then go ahead, stand up for it. I don’t have to support you, but it is your right. But selling out your beliefs for money is wrong in any case, and that’s what happened.
kapusta, I know of 2 segulos for long life: kibbud av v’em and shiluach hakan. They’re from the best source!
gavra, wrong. We can’t give any legitimacy to homosexual relationships, whether it’s civil unions or marriage. Homosexual relations are forbidden, and that’s that. End of story. Saying that it’s ok to be gay is wrong, and allowing them to have an officially recognized relationship is worse.
We need to send a clear message that’s it’s not ok to be gay.
feivel: you say if there’s a space of less than 3 tefachim between parts of a mechitza it’s considered closed? You’ve obviously never been on the bus from Boro Park to Monsey (although it’s been years since I was on it!)
If there’s an opening of an inch you’ll have 5 chassidim jumping to fix it!
Maybe that’s why believer didn’t get it…
lesschumras: my point wasn’t to say “these yes, these no”.
My point was that real Jewish music is that which touches the soul. It can be Ashkenazic, Chassidic, Sefardi, or anything else.
Modern rock music doesn’t do that.
Most of the music put out by Jews today is not real Jewish music – they’re trying to copy the sounds of non-Jewish music, with the loud, rocky sound. If you want that type of music, non-Jewish is better. They simply have better songs.
If, however, you’re looking for real Jewish music, nothing beats some of the older Jewish stuff out there. Listen to the early D’veykus albums, Regesh, the old Chassidic stuff like Modzitz, and you’ll see that nothing compares to it. They have songs that really touch the soul.
Pashuteh Yid: I heard from a talmud of R’ Aharon zt”l that R’ Aharon cried over what happened to Carlebach after he left Lakewood.
The thing to learn from Carlebach is Ahavas Yisrael. Not Ahavah by hugging and kissing people of the opposite gender that you barely know, but a real ahavah – he really loved every Jew. however, he expressed it wrong.
As I’ve written before, R’ Mendel Kaplan zt”l said that Carlebach’s music will make you depressed if you listen to it. I heard this from a Rebbe in my yeshiva who was a talmud of R’ Mendel.
As for calling Carlebach a Rabbi, I guess you can do that, since he was somewhat like a Conservative Rabbi – some things he was able to keep, some things he wasn’t, so he justified transgressing things with some twisted logic.
Yes, he did a lot of good, and I’m sure it was taken into account when he had his din v’cheshbon. He also did a lot of wrong, which I’m sure was also taken into account.
Brings back good memories…
Bigsan and Seresh, what’s that snake doing in my water barrel?
I think it’s doing the back stroke, your majesty!
shalom in Israel: “where does it say in halacha that women can walk around with skirts that barely (if that) skim the knees.”
I’ve asked numerous people numerous times, and never received a response: where does it say in halacha that women must cover their knees and elbows? Don’t tell me some book on tznius that was written a few years ago. Tell me Shulchan Oruch, Mishnah Brurah, etc. In short, where do the books coming out now get their halachos from?
You can say about any dog, “But it’s trained – it’s a nice dog!”
Most of the time there is something on the news about a dog attacking its owner or any other person, everyone says “But it was such a nice dog! I never would have thought it would attack anyone!” Then, of course, the animal psychologists get involved – they try to figure out why the dog attacked. Maybe it felt its owner was being threatened. Maybe it felt threatened itself.
The fact is, all these so-called “safe” dogs are just as capable of hurting someone.
Chacham, I was actually taught that for a reish, it’s brought down that it should come from the throat, not from the roof of the mouth.
tzippi, my first grade rebbe said that when a boy came in and said his mother told him to say “oh”
aussieboy: where did you get those numbers from? I just looked on CNN, and they have a full breakdown. They say there are only 154 confirmed cases of swine flu in the entire world, with only 8 deaths. That’s just over a 5% fatality rate. Also, 7 of the 8 deaths were in Mexico, where the people couldn’t get proper health care, and lived in very poor conditions. The one fatality in the US was a baby.
The regular flu infects and kills many more people than the swine flu. The whole thing is being overblown.
rob: I never said chazzanut is assur – if anything, I said it would be allowed!
As for recorded music, R’ Moshe indicates that recorded music (with instruments) wouldn’t be allowed during sefirah, as I stated.
rob: R’ Moshe says that we shouldn’t listen to music during sefirah. R’ Scheinberg shlita and R’ Eliyahu Shlesinger bring down from the sefer “Eleh Heim Moadai” that since the real issur is not to dance, slow music is not a problem.
rob: Chazzanus is allowed because it doesn’t make you dance. As said earlier, the issur during sefirah is to dance. Slow music, classical music, etc. are allowed. Fast music, even acapella, is not.
To read R’ Moshe’s teshuva, look in the Igros Moshe, OC 1:166
oomis, if you’re following the opinion of your Rav, that’s fine.
ROB said the following:
“I prefer to take the logical way- there is absolutely no mention in shulchan aruch of an outright ban on music and i don’t see why we should add- be moisiff- chumro upon chumro in a time that isn’t even a time of real aveilus and never mentiond in the gemoro.
Sorry, guys, chumros in sefira don’t cut it for me.”
My point was that if his attitude is that there is no mention of it in the Shulchan Aruch, R’ Moshe’s psak should make up for it. If he has this attitude towards chumros here, why not in other areas?
ROB: you say chumros don’t cut it for you. Let me ask you: are you machmir to only eat/drink cholov Yisrael? R’ Moshe said it’s muttar.
If R’ Moshe said it’s not allowed, is that not enough for you? R’ Moshe zt”l wasn’t just “any Rav”, and he said you shouldn’t listen to music during sefirah.
One thing I forgot to add: there is also a letter from R’ Shlomo Miller, signed also by R’ Forchheimer (from Lakewood) where he states that sefirah tapes (he spells it out) are assur to listen to during sefirah.
R’ Belsky gave a psak today (written on another Jewish news site) that acapella music is problematic if there were any modifications done to it digitally. He also says that almost all albums now are “fixed up” digitally in some way.
If it is just the original voices, with nothing changed, there is no problem with it.
I think his teshuva on recorded music might be in the same one I mentioned earlier – OC 1:166, but I’m not sure.
R’ Moshe wrote some teshuvos in the Igros Moshe regarding music during sefirah. I’m not sure exactly where, though – check OC 1:166. R’ Moshe also holds that recorded music has the same status as live music.
R’ Scheinberg holds that music which won’t lead to dancing is ok, so slow music isn’t an issue.
R’ Willig (from YU) holds that since we are lenient during the year on listening to music, we can be lenient during sefirah as well, we just need to make sure we don’t dance at all.
The Mega Millions is now $130 million. Imagine having to give $13 million to maaser! (Yes, I know, taxes, etc it’s not $13 million).
I’d build myself a huge house, with lots of bedrooms. My wife and I love having guests over, but unfortunately our apartment is kind of small, and we can’t fit too many people. If we had a lot of bedrooms, we could have guests sleep over for Shabbos without a problem!
If I really had a lot of money, I’d start an exclusive kollel for the elite, the way it’s meant to be. I’d support them properly, so their wives wouldn’t have to work 3 jobs each.
moish01: If something was observed all the time, it would be the norm, and we wouldn’t think about it much. If we never listened to music, we wouldn’t think twice about it. Because we have a set time period for sefirah, where things are different, we notice it more, and actually think about it.
I was told that R’ Chaim Kanievsky shlita holds acapella music isn’t allowed during sefirah. I was told this by someone very close to him, who personally asked him the question.
During sefirah, there isn’t an issur to listen to music. There is an issur to dance. Since music easily leads to dancing, we don’t listen to music. All the acapella music these days tries to sound like there are instruments, and they can just as easily lead to dancing. Therefore, many poskim hold they’re not allowed.
You can, however, listen to slow music or classical music according to many poskim. in my car, I have a CD with some Beethoven, Mozart, Tchaikovsky, Mussorgsky, and some others which I enjoy listening to. I also have the soundtrack to Disney’s Fantasia, which is various pieces of classical music.
Just me: 50% of niggunim from davening come from Carlebach? Really? I don’t think that’s even close. Care to share which niggunim exactly?
squeak: Again, you insult YU and the gedolim from there. You say no Rabbonim accepted R’ Soloveitchik zt”l (and don’t even use the term Rabbi when referring to him)? R’ Hutner zt”l said that he was one of the gedolei hador!
If you don’t agree with the YU philosophy, fine. Don’t publicly insult the Rabbonim and talmidim there. I disagree with the Lakewood philosophy, yet I don’t insult the Rabbonim there. I won’t say “that Kotler”. I recognize that they are legitimate Rabbonim, and respect them as such, even if I don’t agree with all their views. You should give YU the same respect.
squeak: while you’re at it, klap al cheit for the sinas chinam you have towards YU people, and ask mechilah from those you’ve insulted. Many of them were/are gedolim who were considered to be from the gedolei hador. Not only have you insulted them, you’ve insulted all their students and their way of life. You call it a “skewed version of religion”. I think your view of Judaism is skewed.
You really need to work on your ahavas Yisrael.
Thanks for the link da.
Again, as I said – it wasn’t the last inning with the team losing. He simply walked by, and said he wanted to try and hit. They gave him the bat, and allowed to get his home run. Was it still an amazing story? Yes. The boys made his day. The happiness he got from it was amazing. But the story didn’t happen the way the video or R’ Krohn say it did. I heard this straight from Shaya’s father.
I always enjoyed reading. When I was in yeshiva, the Rosh Yeshiva told me one day that I shouldn’t read. He said a good, frum person shouldn’t read novels even if they’re the “kosher” ones. He said it’s a waste of time and you gain nothing from it. He said a frum Jew should read a Navi if he needs to read. He said you could read it in English if you like. He said it has more than enough action and politics to keep anyone entertained.
anon for this: his brother is also disabled, and I don’t think he’s even aware of the embellishments to the story. One time he told me he was jealous of his brother, and he also wanted to hit a home run.
One thing I wasn’t clear on in my last post: I said Shaya didn’t die that winter. In fact, as far as I know, Shaya is still alive and well (I haven’t been in contact much with the family, but I think I would have heard if something did happen to him G-d forbid)
This story was published in one of R’ Krohn’s books.
I happen to know the family personally – I was Shaya’s brother’s chavrusah for a few years.
A few points: Shaya did not die that winter.
His father told me that in R’ Krohn’s book, he embellished the story to make it sound better. It wasn’t the bottom of the ninth inning, or anything like that. He simply wanted to hit, and they gave him a home run. In the book, it says they put him on their shoulders and carried him around. His father told me that didn’t happen.
Finally, it didn’t happen during the summer. It happened during the school year, in Yeshiva Darchei Torah, in Far Rockaway.
ujm: Why do you need PM’s interpretation when you already have the interpretation of R’ Belsky and R’ Dovid Feinstein? Is their word not good enough for you? For myself, I’ll follow their psak. If you don’t want to, that’s fine. Just don’t try and make it seem like I’m doing something wrong.
No, ujm, some people here claim that R’ Moshe’s letter applies to all cases. Yet, no major Rav now has ever said such a thing, even those involved in kashrus, like R’ Belsky. R’ Dovid Feinstein has publicly stated that his father meant cholov stam is always ok. But wait, I forget – the people here know better. They’ll always listen to the Gedolim – when it suits their purpose.
Olympic Pita has fantastic lafa, but their shawarma isn’t the best.
I like the shawarma at Famous Pita, and you also get free unlimited falafel balls there. Shawarma King in BP also has fantastic shawarma.
JayMatt19: What R’ Belsky holds for himself is not necessarily what the halachah is. As I said, if he gives a hechsher, it’s kosher. If you think R’ Moshe’s heter was only for b’shas hadchak, why does R’ Dovid eat cholov stam?
Just to note, R’ Moshe’s letter where he said cholov stam is only b’shas hadchak was written to a yeshiva which always used cholov yisrael, and was thinking of switching. It doesn’t apply to the general public, as it was a specific case. In R’ Moshe’s teshuva to the general question of cholov stam, he made no mention of shas hadchak.
Additionally, most kashrus organizations have no problem giving a hechsher to dairy which isn’t cholov yisrael. R’ Belsky is a posek for the kashrus division of the OU. Do you think for one second that if he held it was a problem he’d allow a hechsher to be put on cholov stam items? Obviously, it’s not an issue, and believe me, R’ Belsky knows way more about this than you do.