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R’ Hutner took down the picture of R’ Kook only after R’ Kook’s psak regarding women in the army. His talmidim have said that he always spoke highly of R’ Kook even afterward.
R’ Hutner zt”l went to university in Berlin to study philosophy. His daughter, Rebbetzin Dr. David, who runs a large seminary in Israel, got a PhD from Columbia in Philosophy.
R’ Hutner and R’ Shraga Feivel Mendlowitz zt”l originally wanted to set up a joint program with Chaim Berlin and Torah V’Daas to have a college as part of the yeshivos. They only stopped it because R’ Aharon Kotler spoke out very strongly against it, and begged them not to do it.
R’ Hutner zt”l encouraged his students to go to college, first Brooklyn College, and later Touro College.
No cherrybim, you missed it. There is only one language that has a holiness by itself, which is Hebrew – Lashon Kodesh, the Holy Tongue.
Yiddish is used for learning, true – but that doesn’t give the language its own holiness. The words you say are holy because of the content, not the language itself. If you incorporate Hebrew words into Yiddish, those words have holiness not because they’re Yiddish, but because they’re Hebrew!
Joseph’s post really has no point. This is a thread about Modern Orthodoxy, and he’s bringing non-religious Zionists into it. What’s the point?
He quotes R’ Hutner. R’ Hutner also said that R’ YB Soloveitchik was one of the Gedolei Hador.
I read them.
ICOT: one point regarding the Belt Pkwy: I was told that R’ Moshe held that people in cars don’t count towards the 600,000, as a car is considered an ohel, and the person is considered indoors. On the Belt, you can’t count 1 in 5 as being outdoors. R’ Ovadiah Yosef disagrees with him on this, and says people in cars do count towards the 600,000.
Just to note, I am against the eruv, I’m just pointing something out.
aaryd621: there’s nothing wrong with wearing jeans. Some people just impose unnecessary chumros on people, because they don’t know any better.
kapusta: anyone who takes a fee, even if they say it’s for tzedaka, is not a gemach.
A gemach should be free for those who need. The people coming need the help, so why are you asking them for tzedaka? It should be called a rental, not a gemach. The only money they should be collecting is a deposit on the items, which is returned when the item is given back.
You can ask for an optional donation, but if it’s required, it’s not a gemach.
Oh, a gown gemach can also require that the gowns be dry-cleaned.
Joseph, that’s all very nice, but it doesn’t say Yiddish is holy.
truthsharer: I’ve never heard that R’ Cohen said the eruv is ok. AFAIK, he actually said it’a assur to use it.
cherrybim: according to R’ Moshe, there’s not. R’ Moshe didn’t hold it as a chumrah, he held it’s chillul Shabbos d’oraysah. If it’s a real shas hadchak, like pikuach nefesh, you don’t need an eruv anyway, so what’s the issue?
truthsharer: It made sense to R’ Moshe…
Joseph: Please don’t try to bring your cholov stam agenda into this. It’s been discussed way too much already.
truthsharer: R’ Moshe held that there’s a big difference between Brooklyn and Queens. Halachically, he said Brooklyn is considered as one city, while Queens is considered as multiple small ones. The reason was that if you mail a letter to someone in Brooklyn, you write “Brooklyn, NY”. You don’t write Flatbush or Boro Park, you write Brooklyn.
If you mail a letter to Queens, you don’t write “Queens, NY”. You write Kew Garden Hills, or Flushing, etc.
That also explains why each community in Queens has its own eruv, and some people hold you shouldn’t carry from one to the other on Shabbos.
truthsharer, it’s not only Brooklyn people who go to Coney Island, people travel in from other areas as well.
With 2.5 million people in Brooklyn, according to R’ Moshe, you have 500,000 people outside on any given day. On a Sunday in the summer, that number can go up by another 100,000 very easily. During the NYC marathon, there are thousands of runners outside on the streets, with thousands more standing around watching them.
truthsharer: R’ Moshe said that because of Coney Island in the summer, it is still a problem.
mepal: He’s saying that modern Hebrew isn’t a good thing.
No, only Hebrew.
mazal: He didn’t say it bothers him only during davening, he said “in general”.
There is really no reason to wear a hat and jacket the entire day. It’s a shtus that came about recently.
Proud Jew: a language doesn’t get a kedusha just because tzadikim speak it. If that was the case, then many more languages would be holy – and English would top that list.
Why do you I’m “fargoyisht”? As I said, my father-in-law, who is a well known Rav, said Yiddish has no kedusha to it.
Just in case you think he’s not a “real” Rav, let me tell you about him a bit: he learned bechavrusah with R’ Shmuel Rozovsky, R’ Shach, and many others. Now, he is extremely close with R’ Shteinman, R’ Chaim Kanievsky, and R’ Elyashiv.
Yiddish is NOT holy. My father-in-law, who is a well-known Rav, told me it has no kedusha whatsoever.
You realize that the black hat/jacket lifestyle is not for everyone. You say “in general”, but there is no inyan to where it when not davening – that’s just a shtus that came about recently.
If your child is keeping shabbos, keeping kosher, and putting on tefillin every day, be happy for that. Pushing him can make him stop with those also.
Yes, I’ve had exposure to this so-called problem. The real problem is when people tell you you’re not frum without the hat and jacket.
Can boys wear red shirts? Doesn’t the chareidi world say that women can’t wear red, so that must mean it’s ok for boys, because it’s definitely not beged isha, right?
The problem isn’t just the width of the road. It is the number of people who are outside. R’ Moshe and a few other Rabbonim did some research, and determined that approximately 1/5th of the population of a city can be expected to be outdoors. That would mean that Brooklyn needs a population of 3 million to count as a reshus harabim. Now, it doesn’t have to at any given time – it has to occur only once a year. R’ Moshe said that even if the population is slightly below 3 million, it’s still a reshus harabim, because during the summer, thousands of people go to Coney Island beach, and they’re all outdoors.
Sefardim have it even tougher. R’ Moshe held that people in cars don’t count towards the necessary 600,000. R’ Ovadia Yosef shlita holds that they do count, so for sefardim, you definitely have the 600,000.
I heard all this from a rebbe of mine, who had discussed the issue with R’ Moshe many years ago. He is also a prominent Rav in Brooklyn.
JW Blue is probably the most overrated scotch out there. It’s ok, but not worth $200 a bottle! I wouldn’t even spend half of that on a bottle. I’d spend maybe 65-70 on it. For $65, you can get a Macallen 15, which is much better. For $100 you can get Glenfiddich 18, and for $135 you can get the Glenrothes 1984, which is fantastic.
Here’s another question: in order to carry between one reshus hayachid and another, don’t you need an eruv chatzeiros?
In a city/town where there’s an eruv, it’s assumed that the people all agree to the eruv, and are represented by the Rav in charge, who makes that eruv, and therefore everyone can use the eruv. Even for those who don’t use the eruv, they don’t hold it’s assur, they simply are machmir, but still participate in the communal eruv chatzeiros. At least, that’s how it was explained to me.
Now, in Brooklyn, where many people hold the eruv is not a good eruv, and causes chillul Shabbos, how can you make a communal eruv chatzeiros? You might not be over on carrying 4 amos, but you can’t transfer things from your house to outside. Any ideas?
I was told by my Rabbi that R’ Moshe Feinstein zt”l held that sherry casks are not a problem.
qaws: Yes. It’s not a problem. Big poskim have said it’s ok, therefore it’s ok.
Harav HaShotah: The only way the chareidim rebuilt Torah from the ashes was with the help of the Modern Orthodox. Who funded (and still continues to fund) their yeshivos? Who do they turn to when out fund-raising?
I recently heard from someone that someone running a gemach in Passaic was opposed to someone opening a gemach in Teaneck. What was the reason? The person said, “In Teaneck, the community is rich Modern Orthodox people. It’s their job to support the yeshivish people in Passaic.”
Meh. Typical posts. He quotes from various places that say what he wants to hear, but leaves out any other views.
In this thread, he quotes R’ Hutner to support his views on kollel. Yet, he conveniently forgets that R’ Hutner said that R’ YB zt”l was one of the gedolei hador. I guess YU isn’t so bad after all, right Joseph?
“That aside, in the time to which you are referring, there was not a widespread frum female educational system like there is today. The bar is higher now. If virtually all frum girls are torah-educated and versed in chumash, Rashi, Rambam, and other varied Jewish subject matter, including halachos, why aren’t they all dressing within normative tznius guidelines – even within the spirit of halachah?”
So you think the halachos changed? That’s the problem – people turn chumros into halachos, and expect everyone to follow them. If you don’t, you’re looked at as a sheigetz/shiksa. Keep to the basic halachah, and don’t put unnecessary chumros on people. It only leads to people resenting them, and not following even the basics.
Rabbi Miller went to YU
When people keep adding on more and more chumros, people start rebelling against the basics also. Stop with the unnecessary chumros already, and you’ll see that things will get better.
Joseph, do they do that in your shul?
Jothar: because Joseph isn’t conducting an analysis, or a debate. Just-a-guy got it right – Joseph is just looking to condemn. If Joseph was really up for an open debate, I’m sure plenty of people would be willing to oblige. The problem is, he’s not open to it.
This thread was only created with the purpose of bashing MO people.
Can I start one on chareidim next?
EDITED…no personal attacks please
Wolf, did you read my post? I said “without a problem.” Unfortunately, I’ve heard of Rabbonim that simply said, “I disagree with R’ Moshe, and I’m big enough to argue on him.”
When I was in college, sometimes I’d work through a math problem, and get a wrong answer. My professor would tell me the right answer. Did I tell him he was wrong? No. Why not? Because he knew much more than I did, so I had to figure out where I went wrong, not where he did.
Jospeh: you’re partially right here. Some subjects which are taught are not really needed, but if the schools want government money, they have to teach them.
That said, if a person isn’t cut out to sit and learn, there’s nothing wrong with pursuing an education to make a living.
Your point of what they will ask you when you die is something I’ve often thought about. I learned in a yeshiva which is mainly supported by one extremely wealthy man. He is obviously very smart, and had he gone into learning, could probably be a big gadol.
There’s a famous story with the Netziv. He said that when someone dies, he’s not asked “Why weren’t you a R’ Akiva Eiger?” – he said, had I not sat and learned, when I go up there, I would have been asked, “Why weren’t you the Netziv? Where are the seforim you were supposed to write?”
Now, the person who supports the yeshiva I learned in didn’t write any seforim. Could he have? Possibly. But, people from that yeshiva have already written many seforim. So, when he eventually gets up to Shamayim, they may ask him, “Where are the sefotim you were supposed to write?” He can respond, “I didn’t write them. But look, because of me, there are dozens of other seforim which were written instead.”
Is that so bad?
Joseph, I have to comment about your line with R’ Segal zt”l. I learned in Chaim Berlin for a bit, and my older brother was very close with R’ Segal until he passed away. My brother considered leaving high school early to go to Beis Medrash, and when he spoke to R’ Segal about it, R’ Segal told him absolutely not. He told him that he must get a high school diploma, and only then can he go to Beis Medrash. He said that in these times, it is essential that every person get at least a high school diploma before sitting and learning full time.
cherrybim: True, but any Rav would take the psak of the past into account when making his psak. Someone who just disregards a past psak without a problem is not worthy of being a Rav.
R’ Moshe’s psak applies to the entire Brooklyn, including Boro Park. My Rebbe was vehemently opposed to it, and said that anyone ho argues on R’ Moshe regarding it has no business being a Rav.
That said, I do have to share a discussion I had with him, because R’ Hershel Shachter does say differently from R’ Moshe on a matter. He said the following:
Regarding the Brooklyn eruv, there are people who say R’ Moshe was wrong, and they disagree with his psak. With regard to R’ Shachter’s psak, he didn’t say that. He felt that the circumstances had changed, and that R’ Moshe’s psak didn’t apply anymore. He said that were the circumstances the same, he would definitely agree with R’ Moshe. That is permissible. I later heard from a friend of mine who is a close talmud of R’ Shachter that before R’ Shachter gave the psak, he spent 2 sleepless nights reviewing it, and he was literally shaking at the thought of issuing a psak that differed from what R” Moshe had said – and this even when he agreed with the psak, but felt the circumstances had changed!
I guess my point is that it really depends on the reasoning of the psak. If a Rav feels that times have changed, and the psak no longer applies, he can give a psak. I just don’t understand how a posek in NY can argue on R’ Moshe without having a comparable posek to base his psak on.
cherrybim: Sorry, I don’t know of any. I’m not in the habit of looking into the ezras nashim.
Joseph: Good for you, fulfilling what it says in the mishnah: k’shem shemivorchim al hatov, kach mivorchim al harah.
I don’t think a gartel is a hiddur, it’s a personal preference. My father happens to like the way it looks, so he buys one with a gartel if he can.
Buying without a pitum is not a problem at all, but my brother told me it’s brought down that having a pitum is a hiddur.
I treat myself every year to a very nice set. Yes, it costs me money, but I feel right doing it. My grandfather A”H used to buy nice sets also (I went with him a few times when he bought it), and he felt it was important, so I follow the same way.
This year, I was told by someone that they had a few of the really top-notch quality esrogim (the ones that in Brooklyn, you get taken into the back room and charged hundreds of dollars for) for a good price. I can honestly say I got the nicest esrog I have ever bought. Not one bletel on the entire thing, perfectly straight, nice strong pittum… it really looks like one of the ones you find in a picture.
Joseph, I can say the same thing to you.
It’s a fact that kapparos with chickens, the way it’s done now, causes a chillul Hashem. The guy from Monsey who gave an interview boasted about not paying the fines he received. Is this how to do a mitzvah? Causing non-Jews to look at us and say, “Look at those Jews, they think they’re above the law, leaving chicken feces on the streets, stinking up our neighborhood, and not paying the fines they’re given” is not the way to do it. The system needs to be fixed.
Joseph: as I said before, if the way a minhag is carried out creates a chillul Hashem, it’s better not to do it.
That’s the case with using chickens for kapparos these days.
Then why are you trying to convince people here that you’re right?
Yes, Joseph, we should do it as R’ Chaim does – without breaking any laws, or creating any type of chillul Hashem. When we can do that, I’ll agree that chickens are the way to go. Unfortunately, we have a long way to go to get there.
What exactly does ochel nefesh mean? Does it mean food, something you gain sustenance from? If that’s the case, then smoking may be allowed on Yom Tov, but it shouldn’t be permitted on a fast day – and I know people smoke on fast days.
I used money on Erev Yom Kippur, then gave tzeddakah to a Rav in my neighborhood who was collecting for poor people in the area.
squeak: Many Rabbonim have said it is assur to smoke at all. Why should they make a specific psak for Yom Tov?
I don’t think the point is the kashrus (or lack thereof) of the chicken. Kapparos on chickens, the way it’s done now, creates a big chillul Hashem. That’s it.
mi keamcha yisroel: how about the fact that every year, there are violations handed out for breaking the health code?