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i think what soleik is trying to say is that as long as it covers basic halachic requirements, it doesn t matter how long or short the skirt is…the main thing should be that you shouldnt want to parade yourself around in order to attract attention to yourself
Health- if a frum jew was the one who was killed would you still be saying the same thing…i highly doubt it
and come on enough with the insults already its a little pathetic
AZ- sorry but you losing this argument
listen everyone understands you are trying to help…but you have to be willing to admit the faults of your program
your results have nothing to do with my theory
I understand your trying to end the shidduch crisis i simply disagree with your methods as i have explained above…no need to keep having the same argument over and over
ok no offense to the MOD’s but i feel you guys can do a better job by being a bit more relaxed and open-minded on opinions that arent your own
That being said…i appreciate the fact that you take the time to MOD please keep doing what your doing i personally appreciate it 🙂
thanx 2querty youve given me the best answer so far i cant say i agree with whats happening but i understand somewhat how it has the ability to help poorer girls
AZ- ok you clearly have a bias towards PN….not sure what your affiliation is but thats irrelevant. You will never admit that your system has some serious flaws i honestly dont get why mayb its pride or stubborness?? I gotta admit i usually dont get so upset over online posting but this time youve got to me… please keep supporting your “perfect” system im sure you couldnt car less about people who cant afford it even if they tried saving up and spending every last penny on shadchanus.
Dont get me wrong im not trying to bash shadchanim in any way, shape, or form, but if ur gonna tell me a shadchan deserves 11 grand for finding a shidduch for a 28 year old ur completely wrong. Nobody deserves that much money for making a shidduch….of course if they do it the right way they deserve a sum…but 11000 dollars!!!! come on people this is crazy who has that much money lying around????
You guys keep saying over and over how this helps poor girls….how are girls with no money supposed to come up with the extra thousands it costs to pay the exuberent amount for some attention… and guess what AZ, i know numerous families who can’t even dream of coming up with that much money!!! you may not have a concept of what truly not having extra money really means….
bourban is much stronger but also has more flavor
scotch is weaker without as much flavor but is also smoother
so it depends what ur going for….flavor or smoothness
Unfortunately ive had a lot experience in this area… Yes some shadchanim are very special people who are doing it for the right reason, but lets be realistic money talks. Theres a reason the price gets higher as the girl gets older…more $$$$… 1 or 2 thousand is understandable, but 6 or 7 thousand!!! Project NASI is great but not everyone can afford that special attention. its designed for the wealthy in the community. i dont get how you could disagree with that
No but the shadchanim that are on project nasi focus more on the ones that will make them the most money, often ignoring the ones who cant afford project nasi. Obviously in your case project nasi was a success, but that doesnt make it a perfect system it has some serious flaws.
of course 100 percent. Im not trying to bash project nasi at all i simply pointed out the positives and negatives of the program. At the end of the day it does make the shadchanim focus more on the ones who can afford to pay that is the reality.
AZ- so basically what ur saying is “poor” girls should scrap and save every penny they earn so they can pay the thousands of dollars it costs to recieve some attention from shadchanim. Something seems off about that and as much as i understand the business side of shadchanis, this is over the limit and too much.
Im gonna go out on a limb and guess ur related to a shadchan…
“If anything, this program give the poor girls chances they never would’ve dreamed of having…..”
AZ- you didnt explain at all how this helps poor girls????
its simple
Scotch > Bourban > Vodka
just to simply put things in persepective- Yes of course money talks, what project NASI is doing is helping a lot of girls who can afford to “buy” shidduch dates and yes its an amazing thing that all these girls will get more dates. That being said, there is another side of the equation, all the girls who can not afford to “buy” shidduch dates. These girls get messed over because the shadchanim (most of the time) go to the families who can afford to pay.
So like most things, project NASI has both positives and negatives its all how you look at it…oh and mazel tov immaofthree on your upcoming simcha!!!!
MSS- couldnt have said it any better myslef
since when is men using mirrors not a norm in jewish society?
@more- and if ud read my post understand i disagree that a crisis exists. You seem to be under the notion that the majority of baalei tshuva dont fit in, i simply dont agree with that statement. I dont think im ignoring a crisis but based on what ive seen from the many balei tshuva i know, they dont seem to have a major problem fitting in. Im sure some do have some issues adjusting but i wouldnt deem that a crisis but rather an individual difference.
Maybe youve seen one or two baalei tshuvas kids go off and become the nebach type of person you have described, other then that im not sure what your basing your statement on
more_2- The difference is that you see this as a “crisis” thats being pushed under the rug. I dont believe it to be a crisis at all merely some self-expression. These people’s kids will not end up “messed up” because they dont know how to fit in modern orthodox communities. People shouldnt live only surrounded by their own sect of judaism its important that we learn to tolerate and even (gasp) appreciate other sects of our religion. It seems to me that your from the yeshivish community and harbor some anger against people that arent as “yeshivish” as you but of course i could be wrong about that….
Thats extremely judgemental, maybe some people feel rejected by the yehsivish community but still value judaism and want to stay religious. Did you know chassidish people that become yeshivish are considered off the derech by many in their community. Everyone thinks staying in their community is the best but everyone needs to find what works for them, as a religious jews serving hashem, and do it
Dont be so quick to judge thats a very insensitive statement!
great line midwesterner
ok i should have read your post clearer my apologies. I understand what your saying it makes sense, but i dont think its such an issue. The fact that so many people are learning anything is so amazing despite the fact that they can be learning something else, i think that the purpose if daf yomi is more to give people a set seder to leanr regardless of what their really learning
I gotta disagree on this one for numerous reasons. A large majority of daf yomi learners work full time and have very little extra free time, that one hour a day of torah that their learning is a tremendous source of chizuk for them. Not everyone is made to sit and learn gemera in depth and some people just want that sense of learning every day.
Daf Yomi serves more then just “creating achdus for klal yisroel”, it is the sole source of learning for tens of thousands. Of course its easy to say that its never enough and people should do more, but think about how many of the daf yomi people wouldnt learn at all if not for their daily daf. This is their connection.
Additionally people in fact do become more learned by learning daf yomi, they obviously dont remember everything but trust me from personal experience they know a lot more then they had before.
Im not saying that people shouldnt learn halacha lemaisah, but dont be so quick to discredit the daf your just putting down a positive behavior.
If you truly feel the way you do, maybe start a halacha yomi shuir (or something of the sort) but please dont put down something which is such an integral part of many frum jews lives
drech hamelech- i believe people who think wearing a white shirt makes them a better person are foolish. I dont think gedolim wear white shirts because they believe it makes them better however a lot of people do wear them because of this reason
Im not sure why you seem to think im saying people who wear white shirts are automatically foolish
@toi- i dont think a lot of people will take you seriously anymore your just an instigator
Wow why the nasty pun on my name. i was saying i like your threads.. last time i ever give you a compliment
who cares its the contreversial topics that are more interesting and fun
Thanks for the back up cinderalla
@Derech Hamelech
Thats a very nice rant where u just listed a bunch of gedolim. I have no idea what that has to do with your point. i would assume that if these gedolim only wear white shirts, its for a reason they have imposed on themselves and nothing to do with halachah. I highly doubt they would be as hostile as you are towards a non-white shirt dresser like my self.
Not a big fan of the white shirt uniform argument. As far as im concerned tzitzis and yarmulka are the uniform
im seeing this thread for the 1st time, but its a dumb question if you ask me. The fact is that what color your shirt or your pants are make no difference to your avodas hashem. That being said, there will always be foolish people who believe that wearing a white shirt somehow makes you a better person… go figure
not sure why thats funny?
Logican- the truth is ive never really though about this before now. A couple should forsure show affection in a non-physical way, one of the reasons being to be a good role model for kids. However i also feel that on some level they should show a physical relationship (whatever that means). Expressing your love for one another physically is an important part of any marriage and i dont think there’s necessarily a reason to hide that. Of course this should be done in a tzniusdik way. Im not saying they should kiss because i honestly dont know the halachah. Again thats why i would like to actually know the halachah
Logican- i agree that obviously showing too much affection would be a lack of tznius, however i do feel its important for children to see the parents show a loving relationship (on whatever tznius level is possibe)
Im actually interested in the practical halachah of anyone knows the source please post it
Big fan of it, gets the job done. Although i prefer a siddur, using my Blackberry has saved me probably hundreds of times.
It is 100 percent possible for a couple to show affection in a modest way. I never quite understood the rationale against a married couple showing affection towards each other, can you please elaborate Logican
Assuming you are allowed to use a shabbos elevator would you also be allowed to walk into a regular elevator on shabbos and just let it go to whatever floor the other people inside are heading?
i think your overdramatizing a little bit. Its just a marketing strategy no reason to nitpick
one of many- please elaborate on facebook being assur?
as much as it should be accepeted, we all know that the reality is it will always be looked down upon in some comunities, and people will always argue that its “goyish” clothing, whatever that means…
usually your brain sees it through peripheral vision but you dont realize youve seen it. So you actually did see that person staring at you you just dont remember it exactly