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“However, I also believe that looks enhance the attraction but should not define it.”
sounds like your starting to get caught up in your own mess. First you say looks shouldnt matter and the inside is what counts, and now looks only enhance the attractiveness
interjection: it is obvious no one can have true “feelings” in the first 5 minutes. However you seem to be consumed with this idea that looks dont matter for anything and are only a side part of a healthy relationship. A picture doesnt tell the whole story, but a persons attractiveness is very important in a relationship. You can call me shallow, and i will call you a fool
akuperma- nowdays jeans can be worn as classy pants. Weve already had numerous discussions about this
interjection- On what basis are you saying that being immediatly attracted to someone is a hollywood concept. Immediatly fallling in love may be a hollywood concept, but attraction is a whole other concept.
Im gonna assume your a girl, and how can you possibly understand the tayvas men have when they see a women. Its foolish to ignore looks and just assume a man will love you for who you are. Looks are a part of who you are. And no im not saying you need to be a skinny model to be attractive. Looks are relative and you should’nt assume guys who want girls who they are attracted to all want the same look
” He can think she’s nice looking but he absolutely should not be attracted within the first minute, such a guy would seem unstable to me.”
So according to you all guys are unstable? Thats the way of the world, you may find it sick or disgusting, but thats pure human instinct. When you look at a guy, do you not know immediatly weather your or attracted or not?
Im not sure why you think im saying guys know the girl is the one immediatly based on her looks, but its a starting point and it is important. Obviously its not the only factor when deciding who to marry. I dont think any guys would disagree on that
i know this is gonna sound shallow to some people…but the reality is the guy has to be attracted to the girl plain and simple. Yes a picture doesnt show the exact reality, but it gives the boy a general idea of her looks. Imagine a guy goes out with a girl, and one minute into the date he realizes hes not in the slightest way attracted to her. Hes wasting both his and her time. A picture is a way to avoid a situation like that.
I agree he may have a mental disorder, but i highly doubt he has bipolar, if he does have as WOW said, its probably something along the lines of depression or anxiety. That being said, he probably is a normal rebellious teenager. Even so thereapy would be a good idea A) to find out what the underlying issue is and B) so he can get advice from someone he views as “safe”
On a side note: When i was a teenager i went to a therapist, and yes it helped a lot just to have someone to talk to about the stresses of being a young jewish teenager
daniella- I didnt mean to imply he wouldnt be successful in life chas vshalom. With Hashem’s help he will fulfill his purpose in life with all the hatzlacha and mazel in the world.
I was just saying how its terrible the way some yeshivas make kids feel like their piles of dirt because their not meant to be in kollel.
Obviously i dont know the exact situation over here, but based on what WOW has written, it seems that something has been hindering his personality growth and a confidence issue seems to be the most likely cause of it. Of course he can overcome this nisayon but saying that plenty of people have been in his situation and overcome it is not really saying much. I was in a situation very simialar to his, and it took years for me to work through the emotional baggage it left on me. Thank god i met the right people who were able to influence and help me to become the person i am today. But looking back, the most important thing i did was getting a degree and working. It proved to me that i can be successful after years of failing in the yeshiva system. I will daven that he has an easier time then i did adjusting to life after yeshiva
daniella- i dont think the problem is as simple as your making it. You pointed out how a few weeks ago WOW’s son had no interest in yeshiva and now he is interested in going. It seems that her son deep down does have the desire to be a respected bachur, however due to the constraints of the system he BELIEVES it to be impossible. The system aparently hurt his confidence which would fit in with him no being interested in doing anything with his life. More then ever i think your son needs to do something productive. Unless he gets some serious attention from the right rabbeim or role models, i think it will be difficult for him to be successful. There are many small yeshivas out there that are suited for boys like your son. He sounds like he would do perfect in a small yeshiva suited for boys who do college during the day or something along those lines
WOW- thats terrible. Its really a shame how the system is so messed up. Its built towards creating gedolim and rebbeim, and ignoring everyone else. The most important thing has become not your yiras shimayim or your heart, but how much blatt you can memorize. Sadly the majority of us who dont have the patience or drive to learn in depth gemora get messed over and ignored. The sad part is his R’Y prob assumes it was your son’s fault for not being a perfect little angel and not fitting his idea of what the right mold should be. It seems your son needs a new yeshiva where they dont make him feel worthless
livelovelaugh- I dont think its the OP thats the problem here i think its some of the comments such as “their all living off credit cards” or “their all materialistic.” People shouldnt be so judgemental of anyone and certain comments are just stupid and dont belong here
“you are misinformed. According to a majority of people who have gone there, it is considered a “success” if they stayed on the same level as they came”
Balabusta- not sure how you came up with such a ridiculous statement. I, as well as most of my friends spent time in israel after high school. I obviously cant generalize, but most people i know who went had a positive experience. Yes people party there, but based on experience,the partying in America is much much worse. At least in Israel your partying with other jews in a jewish country. In America the partying is with all non-jews.
Most people i know, including myself, were able to stay frum in America by riding the inspiration and countless hours of learning we did in eretz yisroel
fashionbee- I thought it was obvious the advice everyone here has given should be taken with a grain of salt. We obviously dont know or understand the actual situation in regards to what’s really going on. All we are trying to do is to relate the best we can and throw out some ideas and words of chizuk for WOW. As i can tell from her posts, she woulldnt just blindly listen to an anonymous poster without discussing it with her husbend/rav/ people she trusts. But that doesnt mean she doesnt appreciate the words of inspiration
WOW- its not a contradiction at all. I listen to music, watch movies, and even go to theatres…but i also daven 3 times a day, learn everyday, and try to follow halachah to the best of my ability. Is music good for my neshomah? i doubt it. But its something i enjoy and im not yet at the level to not do it. But im still completely frum i dont think its as bad as something like loshon horah or sinas chinam. I’m obviously not your classic yeshivish person, but your son doesnt need to be either. You cant as a parent expect your kid to follow every single one of ur customs, he has to build a life for himself and be his own individual. There are some things you do better then him, but undoubtly there are some things he does or has the ability to do better then you. I wouldnt be so worried about the tv and music, id be more worried about keeping him away from drugs. In his circles its very very common. As a kid we always used to joke about how drugs were the most hushed up problem in the frum community cause everyone was just in such denial. So thats the most important thing for him right now is to not get involved in drugs.
I dont understand how someone can benefit from the state of Isreal, but hate it because its run by non-frum jews. Hashem works in mysterious ways, but it seems clear, through the many war miracles, that the state exists for a reason.
WOW- i definitely understand how its hard for you not to make comments to him. But i know from experience and being in a similar situation that hes in now, that people commenting on his life is probably the worst thing for him. He knows that you dont approve of some things even if you dont say anything to him. He’s gonna make his own decisions regardless. Like you said, he needs to see that he can be a frum jew without being charedi. He can still be completely frum and a great person while listening to music and watching movies.
WOW- ok so ive been following these posts for a while.. It seems like your son is going through a very standard teenage stage. He’s starting to question things about his life. He’s never really chose to be a frum jew, its been a lifestyle he he has been forced to grow up with. Inside hes questioning all the rules and challenges of being frum and saying to himself why should i be doing this. Contrary to what a lot of people think, i dont think this is necessarily a bad thing. It means he has a brain and is not just going with the flow. He clearly has an independent side of him thats bursting to be shown. Him being frum has to be a decision he makes on his own and it cant be forced into it or bribed into it. Its scary how many guys i know played by the rules until they hit their 20’s and then slowly went off the derech.
Because of this i would encourage him to be independent and make his own life choices. If he wants to watch movies and listen to music there is nothing u can do to stop him he’s his own person. However if you see him encouraging your other children to do these things, simply and respectfully let him know that he’s free to make his own decisons, but youd prefer if the younger children arent exposed to these things.
In a way i can relate to your son i feel like i was in a very simialar situation as a teenager. I remember listening to music in the car and my father nicely asking me why i listen to this music. I gave him the true honest answer, that i didnt think any jewish music compared to it. But i was extremely appreciative that even t this day he doesnt comment on my religiousness he understands i have to pave my own way. You can’t as a parent expect your son to mirror your religious observance exactly, but be respectful of his lifestyle and i promise hel be respecful of yours.
The best advice i can give you now, is to tell you that your son badly needs a role model. A rebbi is possible, but the best person would be someone a few years older who he can relate to. That means this person should be someone who works/college but still keeps his religious values. Your son needs to learn that being frum doesnt mean you should be forced to learn in yeshiva 10 hours a day or wear black and white or anything like that (which it seems like he has no interest in). If someone does that kol hakoved, however you can still be a productive jew and not be a classic yeshivish bochur. There is an amazing fullfillment in serving hashem and your so just needs that spark to serve hashem in his way
Health- How can you blame sinas chinam on one sect of judiasm- everyone needs to be more understanding.
I personally do not say hallel, however i would never disrespect MO jews by storming out of davening (as ive seen many people do).I dont see how zionists try to rub it in anyones face, their simply celebrrating the creation of a democratic state where they can live freely the same way Americans celebrate July 4th
health- i all seriousness i dont think the medinah is the reason moshiachs not here…imho i would say the biggest reason is because of the sinas chinam between all the different groups of klal ysiroel, but then again no one really knows why he hasnt arrived yet!
Relax!!! dont worry your kids will adjust and figure it out. They’ll be on their own and mature a lot its a growing experience for them.
It being muttar to start is a moot point. Its in the past and does not reflect on the persons personality now. That being said, of course its understandable to not wanna date a smoker for a million reasons, i personally wouldnt date someone who smokes. But that doesnt make him and am ha’aretz or bad person or anything like that…. just someone who’s struggling with a very public addiction.
TCG- thanx for the info. im assuming ft girl was talking about swiss then and not swiss air lol
A lot of you seem to not fully understand the concept of an addiction. You see someone smoking and assume he’s a terrible person because he smokes. The large majority of smokers start smoking when their younger and not mature enough to understand the consequences of their actions. Its called being a teenager and does not in any way show something negative about their upbringing or personality. Unfortunately this is a decision that can effect their entire life. By the time they mature enough to understand the negative consequences of smoking it becomes a LOT harder to quit the mental and physical addiction. Any smoker can tell you about the major anxiety not smoking causes them.
Please don’t judge smokers on decisions they made when they were younger, we’ve all made stupid decisions however only some of them have such lasting effects.
I disagree. Its good that the streets arent closed in boro park. It’s a strong reminder that were still in golus
yoyo- theres only one question here. Do YOU mind living with someone who smokes. Forget everyone else’s opinion on smokers it is completely irrelevant here. It’s your life and this is an important decision you have to make. You have to decide how much of an issue you believe smoking is and then decide if you can spend your life with someone who smokes.
I wish you much hatzlacha and whatever decision you make should be the best for you!
so health basically what your saying is your allowed to threaten someone and then when they attack you due to self defense of stalking, your allowed to kill the person lol
avhaben- Where did u get this idea that therapists don’t view being OTD as a problem, im a frum therapist myself and your simply wrong. Idk if this is what you are referring to, but many times therapists will show true unconditional love and support even when they don’d agree with something. Its a way of dealing with issues, however that doesnt mean they don’t view going OTD as a positive decision.
The way i look at it…you have to pick your battles. If you dont listen to music at all during sefirah, then good for you. If you do listen, maybe you shouldnt but only you know yourself and how you can handle it.
And yes if your a depressed person or have some sort of mental illness and you find listening to music helps.. then of course you can listen to music during sefirah
dash- well if they went out of business their back now i took them a few years ago…highly recommended
can someone please give a straight up answer on whether listening to a recording is different from in person…ive always been under the assumption that kol isha was because you may be tempted by the women, but hearing a recording is different.
very interesting article, id be interested in long-term studies to see if it has lasting effects
lol good point
true but nobody takes him seriously anymore anyways…
you guys gotta just relax…you know PBA is having a good laugh at this whole situation…why let him get the satisfaction just let it be
ON a serious note though i never said i agree with any of the protesting…just that the situation is something that has to be looked into
Nope health tickets are way to expensive this time of year!!!
Just because you dont agree with it doesnt make it kefirah…their books have helped many many people,including myself, get through difficult struggles
Id be hard pressed to find a similar case to this one exactly, but if you want me to find lists of crimes jews have commited it wouldnt be very hard…Either way its a waste of time i dont see where your going with this…it really has nothing to do with the discussion
Health maybe you should re-read the conversation…
No that doesnt mean i am a self-hating jew, just not an ignorant one. Im proud to be part of the greates nation in the world.
You seem to have a lot of assumptions…dont assume anything
Health do u realize your not answering my questions, just avoiding them and trying to bash me and my upbringing. If you cant have a political conservation without saying bad things about me dont bother answering back at all.
Im not sure why you think a Jew cant possibly end up in an alercation? Its not an ideal situation, but dont kid youself these things happen maybe you were sheltered growing up and if you were thats a good thing
The evidence is still being examined, and regardless of the latest evidence being that Martin was winning was winning the fight, its unclear who started it.
Health- we do not know if he even beat him for following him, we dont even know who started the altercation. Martin has the right of self-defense and it is a fact that he was scared about this guy who was following him (based on the phone calls with his girlfriend right before)
“When did a Jew ever beat s/o for following him?”
right im sure that has never happened of course all jews are perfect ppl…
“Maybe you should reassess your beliefs? Are you really conservative? Nowadays, you really can’t be PC & conservative at the same time!”
The truth is i dont care about labels…i consider myself to be more to the right (even though it seems like im supporting the left on this) but maybe i don’t pass your credentials to be considered a conservative…..oh well
health- funny but im not a liberal at all…actually a pretty big conservative.
I do believe in rational thinking, however i have never been followed by someone with a gun so i dont have an answer for you
Flatbush guy- different people chill in different ways. Something you find to be relaxing may not be the same as someone else
I agree with you that its beneficial for yeshiva bochurim to be camp counslers, and the yeshivas should accomadate that. (I had a freind who once actually got permission to leave summer zman early to go be a counsler) but not everyone has the desire to be a counsler in camp and they can do other stuff to relax such as going on trips, BBQing, going to ballgames….
Flatbush guy- I get that “chilling” over the summer does’nt work for you, however some people do need it. For a lot of kids theres nothing wrong with traveling in the summer, having daily BBQ’s for a few weeks, and even davening beyichidus once a while (although that one is obviously not preferable it does happen sometimes when your on trips or cant find a minyan) Its part of growing up if you ask me. Not everyone wants to go to camp, personally i hated camp when i was teenager and enjoyed doing the “terrible” things you just mentioned
health based on all the anger in your posts…im gonna say i just dont believe you