Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Saying it was created for man to use is all very well, but how we use it has to be dictated by our understanding of it. If you know your use of it is damaging and will impact your children in the future from being able to use it, is that okay? I know we have to hope for Moshiach, but we still need to do tachlis and plan for the future. Do you not have life insurance or any retirement accounts? Why is the environment less worthy of future consideration than your bank account? Scientists who specialize in this field seem to pretty much uniformly agree that climate change is a major issue we need to deal with, so why not make the effort? Yeah, it might mean some sacrifices, but out standard of living in America is very high and it might not be so bad. Further, green initiatives, like EV’s, will make cities quieter and less polluted, which would be good for both mental and physical health, so there is a lot to benefit from it.
TLDR – invest in Tesla. Make money and improve the environment!
Disclaimer, I don’t offer any investment advice…
Unity and agreeing on policy are not the same thing.
You did not ask a question. You deliberately mischaracterized how our government functions as set by the constitution to malign democrats. You either clearly don’t understand how American Democracy works and in that case you might be forgiven for your error or you were just engaging in a nasty partisan attack motivated by hatred of the other side (not long ago you were decrying this mean behavior, how hypocritical to then engage in it baselessly). So please stop with the pity party.
Charliehall – agree that McConnell sees Trump as a drag on the GOP.
As to the poster who is having trouble with how impeachment works, they should take a look in the constitution. Part of the basic law in the US if you will. Really not complicated and has been around a few hundred years. Not sure anyone currently in congress was involved in writing these rules. But, what should I expect, just the typical mudslinging against democrats that I have come to expect here.
Fortunately for us we have a very good idea of how Trump responded to the insurrection riot which he helped incite.
Was he first on TV telling his supporters to go home… Oh, no, first Biden went on TV and called on him to do his job.
Was he on twitter right away calling on his supporters to go home… Oh, no, at first he just asked them to not hurt law enforcement officers. I guess Mike Pence and congressmen were fair game though.
This is a guy, who at any moment would have tweeted any crazy thing he thought up of, but when it came to him doing his duty to help stop this riot, his actions were lacking. That is first-hand knowledge to anyone who followed his twitter account.
Then of course there are the aides who claim he cheered on the riot and had to be convinced to ask his supporters to go home.
Fortunately he is no longer President. I wish Biden well. Agree or disagree with his policies, the difference between Biden and Trump, is I believe Biden will put America before his own personal pride. America is not about agreeing on policy, but agreeing on the basics of American Democracy and wanting to make a better society and union.
The Little I Know – You contradict yourself. First you say Schumer pretty much did nothing of significance then you two paragraphs later whine that Schumer did consequential things.
Oh, for the person who wants these threads (I assume all the Trump related ones) to go away, maybe tell the people starting them to stop and stop supporting the lie they continue to push. The vast majority of these threads are started by people pushing election fraud lies.
But never question why people persist in lying about election fraud. Typical.
Biden won by a 4.4% margin.
As to the ridiculous question of how can you know there is no election fraud, this is a fundamentally ridiculous question as it is asking you to prove something that is impossible to prove.
All that we know is there has been no valid evidence of fraud presented. OrechDin summed it up very well. If you still persist in lies, then like Lyndsay Graham, a fanatic Trump supporter, said about this there is simply no convincing you.
What??? I mean, I would think anyone with a basic education would understand you can’t prove a negative. Sorry, if you need it spelled out for you. This is getting ridiculous the extent you are holding to lies to avoid recognizing that a lie was promoted with the only possible intent being to undermine American Democracy.
So one person says Bill Barr said the election was not rigged but he did not say there was no fraud. I guess in practical terms the takeaway must be that an election that is rigged is not fraudulent and a fraudulent election is not rigged.
Seriously, cut the parsing of words. Of course no one can say affirmatively the election was not rigged, the same way you cannot say affirmatively it did not rain when you turned away from the window, even if it sunny outside. Because just maybe…
Let’s not be ridiculous.
As to eddiee – I have no idea what you are going on about. You essentially claimed I got my info from the Mainstream Media and I told you I actually looked at court cases. I also read some of the affidavits. I have no idea why you are discussing black/white violence. I am sure there is some deep truth you want me to realize.
As to swearing by or at the election, this is a deliberate mischaracterization. There was an unprecedented lie said about the election. It was a lie because the evidence it was based on, when examined did not support that position. All I am essentially doing is trying to point out to some very stubborn people that they have been lied to. It follows that if the fraud claims are lies, then we should stand by the election, otherwise, American Democracy is essentially in the trash. If you have a better alternative in how to respond to a clear and blatant lie, let me know. As Jews we should be very sensitive to lies and what damage they cause. How many Jews have been murdered because of blood libels or the lies of the Nazis? If it is not clear, in your face, obvious, that lies can result in violence and radicalization then you have slept through every history class you ever took.
eddiee – I don’t know about you (I assume you get your info from partisan right-wing media), but myself I actually read some of the court decisions, I don’t rely on the media like apparently you seem to think everyone does.
If you actually read some of the court’s opinions, it would perhaps straighten you out. The reason why the right was able to persist with this lie, is they managed to convince all their followers to not look at the sources.
And to be clear, what you call the Mainstream Media did not lie about the election or court cases, only conservative media lied about it. In some of the court cases, lawyers representing Trump’s side, actually refused to present actual evidence of fraud despite publicly claiming there was evidence. When you look at other cases were evidence was presented and it was torn apart as being worthless, you would understand why most of what was called evidence by those you apparently believe was not worth the paper it was written on.
Those of you who support insurrection apparently, are only focusing on the violence aspect, which I am not sure I have seen anyone here disagree with that where BLM protests resulted in violence it was wrong. But for the life of me I have no idea how you equate what the two groups are protesting about. One was police brutality (and racism) which are real things which go look up the George Floyd video if not sure the other was protesting because of some lie about election fraud.
I mean this may be hard for you to comprehend, but when you have millions of people protesting there will almost always be some incidents. In the BLM protests there were people who took advantage of the riot to loot stores for example. But without excusing the violence do you disagree with people protesting the well documented police brutality (does anyone here disagree that the murder of George Floyd, which is on video, by police was wrong)?
On the other hand, what justification was there in the first place for the massive protest that led to the insurrection riot in the Capitol? They were there protesting because they were being lied to, clearly and openly by Trump, Rudy, Hawley, Cruz, Hannity, Carlson, Jenna Ellis, Powell, and others. Or do you actually believe the lies? Further, the only possible thing those spreading the lie could have wanted to accomplish, was to overturn a lawful election and undermine American Democracy. What else could have been attempted here.
All of you, simply pointing to the violence, are attempting to avoid the uncomfortable truth that the protests were driven by an attempt to overturn an election and undermine American Democracy.
For those of you who have “questions” the answers are clear if you were to try to be honest with yourself. For Syag, no, I am not your stalker, I just see through your attempt at playing the unknowing bystander to conversations asking “innocent” questions. You know good and well the game your are playing and you just don’t like being called out on it.
Go search for Cathie Wood from ARK Investment Management. They talk a lot about Blockchain technology and investing in it. I am not sure her position on Bitcoin (or any other cryptocurrency) but Blockchain (the underlying technology) may be very significant for the future of how businesses will operate (and people will store data that needs to be validated).
eddiee – so the courts were not brave enough to actually look at the evidence? Is this the same evidence that lawyers refused to present in court because they were afraid they would lose their law licenses or is this secret evidence that no one knows about? There were over 60 cases lost. Don’t be ridiculous that all these judges were afraid to hear these cases. At least one poster here is happy with your justification (really a lie) as it lets her go on believing fraud without having to reconcile anything that shows this claim is based on thing air.
Just remember 30,000 people went to Washington to protest and riot because of a lie. There was nothing for anyone to do other than overturning a legitimate election to meet their complaints. BLM protests were in response to people being killed by the police. You can find the video of George Floyd being choked to death if you are not sure. For anyone to compare BLM to the Capitol Riot is just pathetic.
So ask your variations of questions and engaged in partisan mudslinging, but if you can’t differentiate between people protesting over police brutality versus people protesting over a lie, you likely need some serious help.
eddiee – Use Google to try to find primary sources of info. It is not very hard.
Also, if you use history as a guide, just remember the MSM was correct this election there was no fraud to overturn an election. It was Conservative media that propagated a lie. If you are concerned about trusting the media you should apparently trust the MSM before Conservative media. At least MSM tries to confront its bias and say the truth, whereas Conservative media is all about propping up Republican Power, for which Truth is of minor relevance.
eddiee – let me help you out. Lindsey Graham a staunch supporter of Trump said there was no fraud and if you don’t believe it there is no convincing you. Over 60 court cases were lost by Trump’s side with judges from across the political spectrum, including judges appointed by Trump, presiding. Bill Barr, a Trump loyalist who he loves as AG said there was no fraud. Republican Governors and Secretary of State said there was no fraud. The head of the Department of Homeland Security said there was no fraud.
Basically, if you think anyone needs to hear from the non-propogandist mainstream media that there was no fraud you are simply mistaken. There was so much other info not from the media.
In other words, if you are busy with your election fraud claims, you are simply delusional. Show the proof. And no, whatever Health is spouting is not proof. I tried previously debating him on some of the supposed evidence he referenced but it got no place with him. I guess as far as he is concerned if Powell and Rudy said there is evidence it must be the case, despite everyone else disagreeing with them.
Oh, isn’t it surprising that Trump is stiffing Rudy on his fees. Must be even Trump thinks Rudy was delusional.
Oh, Syag, how about reporting that info to the proper authorities. This is a serious crime. Posting these claims here, makes me suspect you are just making stuff up or taking it out of context to make your partisan political point. Seriously, if you want unity and us all to heal, how about start by stepping up and doing the right thing.
Not holding my breath.
Reb e, spot on! Of course the self-proclaimed thought police here has to criticize your statement, which to anyone with any saychel it was obvious the point you are making. Not going to explain it as if they can’t figure out how ridiculous the statements they are making that prompted your spot on response, there is really no helping them understand.
eddiee – so you are saying that I started assuming no fraud because the media said so…
Right… makes so much sense. Oh, remind me why the non-propagandist mainstream media said no fraud? That’s right, it was because Trump, Rudy, Ellis, Hannity, Carlson, Cruz, Gaetz, Hawley and others with no evidence started making these crazy claims. Mainstream media did their job by responding that they have actually not shown any evidence so there is no reason to assume fraud.
Simply ridiculous. You want to claim there is fraud, show the evidence. Just making up claims because you don’t like the election result is pretty pathetic.
Great answer. This past election was an exemplary example of an election conducted in a way that assured people of the integrity.
Unfortunately Trump, Cruz, Hannity, Tucker, Rudy, Ellis, Powell, and others decided to simply outright lie about the election thereby sowing doubt in the masses that get their news via conservative media. This goes to show that you cannot rely on conservative media to properly inform the masses. Unfortunately, this time it resulted in an insurrection riot with several deaths associated with it.
We have to appreciate the mainstream media for the efforts to combat the lie. Sadly too many don’t listen to mainstream media and instead get their news from conservative propaganda media.
Was not arguing, was complimenting jackk on his well written words. That you take offense, whatever.
So to be clear you agree with these two points, which are in your prior comments:
1. There was no election fraud that would overturn the election
2. Trump incited a riot (which has led to the deaths of several people).
As to point 1, it follows that Trump and supporters deliberately spread lies and engaged in what might be extortion (with the phone calls).
So as long as the above holds true, impeachment seems to make sense.
As to the logistics, well it might interfere slightly with Joe Biden’s legislative agenda, but if the Senate votes to convict you take Trump off the table in the 2024 election. As to congressmen whining about that you should not impeach as it is divisive, sounds like they just want to avoid a vote on impeachment because it might offend Trump supporters and to vote against impeachment, means you refused to impeach someone who lied and his lies incited an insurrection riot. If you don’t impeach for this, seems silly to impeach for whatever Nixon did (or Clinton did, which was a personal matter). I mean, if you don’t impeach for this, then what do you ever impeach for?
Ver well said jackk. It is very sad how so many here just can’t get out of their heads the lies they have been fed. Really, not worth arguing with TVP, Health, Syag and a few others. They will never actually address anything of substance and just keep on repeating nonsense and falsehood.
Lindsay Graham, a vocal Trump supporter said last Wednesday that the election was not stolen and if you think otherwise there is simply no way he can convince you because you believe lies.
There has to come a point where people recognize the difference between truth and fiction. Instead we have attacks on “liberals” on some theoretical election fraud, when in actuality we saw a concerted effort by conservative media, Trump, Cruz, and others to actually steal an election and then go on to incite a riot. There really is no conversation to be had here. The folks persisting with the lies will respond with more lies and accusations. That is just the way it goes when people get caught up in lies.
Right, because a politician having an anti-Israel slant is as relevant to American Democracy as a politician inciting an insurrection riot.
Frankly, nothing I say will convince you why impeachment should occur now. So keep on wondering. When you can move past lies about election fraud maybe we can then talk. But if you and others here are simply stuck in a web of lies, there is no real common ground to have a conversation.
I don’t know. You seem pretty worked up by talk against a President who incited an insurrection.
So, TVP, is apparently of the opinion that the judges in over 60 cases, including judges Trump appointed, Bill Barr, Lindsay Graham, the guy who was at Homeland Security, Republican Governors, and Secretary of States, including numerous others who in many cases were strong supporters of Trump, apparently all get their info from “Mainstream Media.”
The only media that lied about this election was right-wing media. What you call the MSM did not lie about the election.
Do you only try to antagonize those you don’t agree with? Never an actual substantive comment. Health spouted nonsense as usual and Reb E responded perfectly. Yet, apparently no issues with Health’s nonsense. Sure says a lot about you.
BLM = 2 deaths (protests and riots triggered in response to George Floyd being murdered on camera by police)
Benghazi = 4 deaths
Trump Insurrection Riot = 5 deaths so far
Only one of these actually threatened democracy. Since folks here have a hard time with this, it was the Trump Insurrection Riot.
Oh, the BLM protests resulted in 604 arrests. I am expecting many more arrests for an insurrection riot that resulted in 5 deaths so far, or is insurrection okay but protesting racism a more serious crime.
There is no power to pardon oneself. This goes back to the history of the power to pardon. This is another stupid legal discussion like the prior one where fools claimed Pence had power to pick the election winner.
Trump committed treason and should hang.
The Justice Department will not mention they are pursuing Donald Trump until after Jan 20. Knowing what a maniac he is someone decided it is better to indicate they are not looking into him now.
How about listen to what the people who engaged in this riot about what they thought they were doing. Seems clear enough they thought Trump, Hannity, Cruz, and others had their back. Guess calls to prosecute them by those same people who first incited them to riot is not the biggest sellout in history. But this is what aligning yourself with Trump results in. Loyalty with him goes one way.
The duplicity of Trump supporters here is simply amazing.
He (and others, like Ted Cruz, Hannity, Rudy, Tucker Carlson, and others) lied to his supporters constantly riling them up with nonsensical claims of election fraud.
His supporters believing the lie marched on the US Capitol because it was the revolution (per the words of one naive supporter). Trump said he would march with them, but he went home to watch on TV.
There they invaded the Capitol and Trump by all accounts cheered this from his TV and refused to take action to stop it until lots of time had passed.
Later after they were cleared out and the rioters received condemnation from all and Trump realizing that this does not look good, he calls for prosecuting them severely. Hannity and Cruz alike also call for them to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
Face it, fools, you got played by Trump and Co. Those that bought the lie and went forth after being riled up, when it did not work out, get tossed under the bus. That anyone should still support Trump, Hannity, Cruz and the like is simply amazing. These people are just using you.
Oh, the moment police decided to stand up and do their job, Trump supporters very quickly went from being on their side to wanting to attack and kill them. Now they are trying to differentiate between police that walk the beat and those that would protect Pelosi and Schumer.
Whatever… Was Fink one of the people who based on these idiotic lies engaged in sedition?
Someone needs to explain to Health that evidence you don’t present in court or evidence that is refuted is not worth much. Easy to say you have evidence on social media. Even Linsey Graham, a vocal Trump supporter called you delusional for believing these lies.
The delusional support of Trump who could not commit to the peaceful transfer of power (until after he incited a riot… a bit too little, too late) that so many seem to have, recalls another unfortunate epoch in Jewish history. Namely support for Shabbtai Tzvi as moshiach. That farce had people living in delusion for a couple of hundred years still hoping that he would somehow show he was still the moshiach (after converting to Islam no less!).
Just remember, your continued support of Trump is support for a person who sought to interfere with a core tenant of democracy, namely the peaceful transfer of power to the party that won the election, even though you disagree strongly with their policy ideas.
Anyone that continues to support Trump, remember that yesterday, people wearing Maga hats and waving confederate flags, engaged in sedition. Those of us here suffering from TDS warned you that his rhetoric was dangerous. For that we got insults.
Of course BLM. The thing is, I condemn violence of BLM, but just realize those protests were triggered by people being murdered on video by police. Here, there was no crime to protest. There was an election that despite Trump’s cries of fraud, he could not find evidence of prove his case. That you believe a lie, is something wrong and twisted about you. To compare this to BLM where people were murdered, does not even make sense.
I tried including the post number in the links, for some reason did not come through.
To help your failing memory the specific posts are:
#1923161 and #1923665 – Regarding your support for Trump and not caring about his rhetoric.
#1915626 – Regarding your opinion about Clinton
I guess you only find insulting those with different political views then yours as worthwhile comments. Even your latest post “Start the clock!” is an insult. I sure hope the sickening seditious insurrection today that was egged on by Rudy and Donald disgusts you. Not that you would admit it.
TVP – So Trump telling people who are committing a seditious insurrection they are very wonderful is not to be understood as support. What about Presidential Aides who said he was cheering on when seeing this atrocity on TV and took much pleading to get him to authorize the guard. What about talk of the 25th amendment and high-level people considering resigning. The people inside know Trump is responsible.
Awww… poor you. Your memory must be failing. Here are some links to help you.
Really? You forget your own comments so quick.
Are my shtuch’s not as subtle as yours?
Where is your outrage at the seditious insurrection that took place today?
Still think Clinton is the most corrupt politician ever?
Still think Trump’s rhetoric does not matter?
The other day, someone was so shocked that frum yidden can have such hate in their hearts. If you read her post she was seriously, genuinely shocked. Of course the hatred in the hearts of Trump supporters did not seem to trouble her. Naturally, her one comment here is to mock someone expressing outrage at a seditious insurrection and definitely no outrage at the dangerous situation the President set off.
I would be much more concerned by the continued vile language of Donald Trump and his supporters then amen or awomen. But go on cry a river. This continued insistence this is a big deal reflects poorly on the people continuing to push it.
Trump tweeted an insult against Chuck Todd this morning and rather than condemning his continued vile language the big hullaboo here is a silly pun from a Democrat that meant no harm to anyone.
Just continue to dig your own ditch, Health.
So now you go on some tirade against libs and elections… Just brilliant.
Georgia was controlled by the GOP and had a GOP Governor and Secretary of State, who even said he voted for Trump. Hard to understand who these libs are that you refer to.
It is just inconsistent logic and nonsensical claims that makes me suspect you are just trying to post divisive partisan comments and care nothing for truth or reality. Simply pathetic.
He is referring to a bill sponsored by Assemblyman Nick Perry (fyi, there are a total of 150 Assemblymen in NY), which he has sponsored in one form or another each year since 2015. It has never made it out of committee.
The thing is lakewhut is lying about the bill, because there is simply no provision in there to detain anyone for refusing a vaccine. You can only be detained under that bill if you are a “Case”, “Carrier”, or “Contact” that is a serious health risk to the public.
Whatever, that bill has never made it out of committee, but naturally lying cons will take anything and everything to try to make Democrats look bad. Truth is irrelevant to them.
Reb E – Just leave Health’s comments to stand on their own. He said Soros or China was threatening Judges and Republicans and Democrats are being paid off. Just nonsense. No idea where he comes up with this stuff, but definitely not based in reality.
TVP – you are just lying and making stuff up. Where do you get this nonsense that a thorough audit was not completed? This election has been scrutinized more ways then any election in history and so far Trump has found nothing. I guess, numerous Judges (including ones put on the bench by Trump), his own AG, the Dept of Homeland Security, Republican Governors and Secretary of State, are all not to be believed because Trump, Rudy, Powell, Ellis, Health, and TVP say there is fraud. Show some worthy evidence that you actually get up in court and attest to under penalty of perjury, rather than making claims on social media.
As for Health… I just assume anything you post is simply alternative facts and not worthy of debate. Just face it, you are wrong.
Trump, clearly abused his power and engaged in several possible violations of the law with his phone call, trying to get Raffensperger to illegally change the result of the election. It is time to put this election behind us if you want Democracy.
All the issues have been addressed and debunked. If you have trouble with this still it is because you only believe lies.
As to Trump, he asked Raffensperger to break the law on his behalf with the implied threat that Trump would act to undermine a subsequent election if he does not. That is clearly wrong.
Please refer to my prior comment that shows that Trump clearly has no evidence of fraud, rather he just suspects fraud (because there is no way he could have lost…). So based on a crazy suspicion of fraud he is demanding Raffensperger overturn an election or otherwise, as Trump has implied, he will act to undermine any future election Raffensperger runs in.
I don’t know what world you live in, but it is definitely not one guided by the Torah or else you would actually care about truth.
tvp – your statement is contradictory. You make the following statements:
A – “there were tens of thousands of illegal votes”
B – “I don’t see what is wrong with trump requesting the secretary of state of Georgia uncover them”
If statement “A” is a known fact then statement “B” is unnecessary. If statement “B” is necessary then “A” cannot be known.
If you had evidence for “A” and therefore did not need the Secretary of State of Georgia to uncover this info, you could have gone to court with that info. Of course in the hour long call, Trump says they don’t have the info because Georgia refused to turn over to them information that is confidential under the law. Hence, the claim there are tens of thousands of illegal votes is not supported by any evidence (otherwise we get back to why did you not present that evidence in court… right, because it did not exist. Statements made on social media do not get cross-examined).
If you actually listened to Trump, his primary claim is that it is not possible he lost because he had big rallies and somebody told him that it is impossible he lost. He did repeat a bunch of debunked claims, including claims that were made by the Georgia hearings on the election that various analysis showed numerous votes being fraudulent, which one representative there actually went through some of the names and in each case showed that the person making the fraud claims did a sloppy job (at best, or was acting maliciously at worst).
Oh, as to what is wrong? Trump was pushing Raffensperger to find votes to make Trump the winner and was implying that not to do so would result in criminal charges and would result in political consequences (i.e. you will never win an election again). Sure sounds like conspiracy to me. Imagine Raffensperger, like lyin Ted Cruz (who called Trump a pathological liar who just lies and attacks people and said when the news does not reprint his lies he just doubles down on them and calls the news fake news) caved into Trump and decided to support him as a path to retaining power. He would be violating the law, as Raffensperger clearly expressed that they did not find issues and the President’s data is wrong. Seems a textbook charge of conspiracy. Just another thing to add to the list of charges Trump will face when he leaves office.