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Shop: “I was at an ice cream shop with a pretty good hechsher, and saw the lady working there use the same utensil first in Milchig ice cream, than to Parve.”
I think one has to apply caution and assume that when eating out in a Milchig environment, even eating only parve, one must wait for fleishig and vice-versa. So if you want only a couple pickles from the deli, no milchig for you for a while.
Gao: “Aristotle’s philosophy had much more of an impact.., heresy.., Kefira..,”
In my understanding, according to the Rambam, the Aristotelian philosophy of the universe and Judaism’s understanding are equal in terms of philosophical proof. The core difference is that we believe in Creation Ex Nihilo while Aristotle argued that both Hashem and the universe have always existed.
I agree that a Yid should beware this difference, but your hatred of Aristotle and your embracing of Hawking is curious. Maybe there’s something else you would like to share? Maybe you have a family member with ALS?
Lask: Don’t know that the sages discussed “trolling”–if they did, you would understand OP purpose
Typically pluralizing an English word by adding an “s” to the end implies a greater amount than the singular. For example, dollar/dollars, computer/computers, etc.
What word(s) when pluralized by adding an “s” to the end implies a lesser amount than the singular?
Lask: Beis Shammai is sharper explains why we don’t understand currently the Beis Shammai. Also currently we can’t take their stringencies
Thank you again Lask–I’m impressed by your knowledge and can see you are not a native English speaker so that this is not the easiest to communicate.
You may know that the opinion you state from Tosfas in Baba Metzia is a Chabad foundational belief. I did not know that it came from this source.
Lask: “Eli Y – Let me explain why in the world to come we pasken like the Beis Shammai what happens to the majority view? ”
I have learned from your response Laskern–thank you.
Lask: “Rambam why by life and death judgements if all twenty three said he is guilty, he went out innocent. ”
Wonderful reference to my teacher the Rambam!
Lask: “The Beis Shamai by having a different view helped the Beis Hillel arrive to the truth by eliminating tunnel vision”
If you mean that Beis Hillel opinion was “truth” and Shammai was “not truth”, I have learned that they are both true. In the current world we go by Hillel–in the world to come we will go by Shammai.
DY:So from now on, whenever I have a halachic shailah, I will flip to a random page in the Igros Moshe and follow whatever it says.
RSo: . I would have liked to have answered yes but after reading some of the stuff quoted here in his name I’m no longer sure.
Adding a bit to “whattosay’s” excellent post, there seems to also be a “my Rebbe is better than your Rebbe” influence in our dialogue that can only prevent proper dialogue and understanding.
I suggest we continue with the topic of selecting Igros without considering which Rebbe to consult. That is, is it possible for any deceased soul to interact with the world in such a way as to influence a particular living persons actions?
In my note above this one I argue that it is possible since we probably all agree that we can influence a departed soul through Hashem. Why then can the departed soul not influence us through Hashem?
Bubbyo: My reply reflects my Bais Yaakov background, there are probably other responses as well.
As a follow-up: What benefit accrues to the deceased by gaining more merit?“he/she, in the world of truth, will delight in this added bit of awareness that resulted from their life..,this will elevate the soul and thus alleviate some of the pain”
Thanks Bubbyo for your very interesting response.
The reason I posed this question to the forum is to demonstrate that those on earth can affect the deceased. It is reasonable then to conclude the deceased can affect those on earth and hence, can affect where a person turns a page to a particular igros.
Your explanation apparently leaves Hashem entirely out of the path between living an deceased. By adding Hashem into the “model”, Kaddish affects the deceased through Hashem. The Kaddish moves Hashem to ease the cleansing of the soul of the deceased.
Unless someone wants to argue that this is a “one-way street” , the deceased can affect the living through Hashem. Hence, a holy soul (eg., Metatron like?) can influence Hashem to act in the world. This is a reasonable mechanism that can explain the selection of the appropriate igros as well as other actions and “miracles” we observe.
I spoke to my Chabad Rabbi a bit more about the difference between selecting an igros at random and studying the works of the Rebbe. He remarked that by consulting a volume of letters one will pick out the answer that leads to one’s desires. When “randomly” selecting, one can get an answer they did not want and hence will prevent them from doing that which they desire.
RSo: “Could you perhaps give me some names of prominent chassidim who have opposed it vehemently?”
I’ll bet you a cream cheese bagel w/lox that this info cannot be provided as long as we define a “prominent Lubavitcher” as one who davens at 770 and visits the Ohel.
RSo: “I can accept someone searching for the lubavitcher rebbe’s view on a question/topic, but that is nothing like writing a question, putting it in a page at random in the igros, and then getting the answer from that page”.
The quality of the letters we are speaking of are in regard to questions such as “should I move to FL to open a pre-school or should I remain in NY as a civil service lawyer”. The Rebbe could answer two similar letters in entirely different ways.
I’m not sure we agree on some very basic foundational principles so I ask you:
1. Do you agree that a Tzaddik can operate in ways beyond what we perceive as natural laws?
2. Do you agree that the Rebbe was a Tzaddik?
Avram: “Since this tremendous mitzva was done for the sake of the deceased, the merits are also added to the merits of the deceased.”
Wow–thank you for this amazing response Avram–I am sure it will increase the quality of my davening and I am ever grateful for this.
As a follow-up: What benefit accrues to the deceased by gaining more merit?
Also, do folks in your shul say Kaddish for precisely 11 months?
AvramMD:
“This is why horoscopes are so popular. People can pull out from them what they desire. ”I fully agree with your skepticism. I offered my Rabbi’s observation as an empirical statement but I have no objective proof regarding the alignment between the letter and the persons issue.
DY: Also, sometimes the letter seems to be irrelevant to the current question.
“How does your rabbi explain that?”
In our discussion he implied that the answer was there except it was beyond the ability of the seeker to understand it. I purposely did not include this aspect in my original post since it does little to move the argument forward.
Similarly, arguing that a person turned to a specific page due to a splinter in the finger that would not have been turned to had the finger not had a splinter gets us nowhere.
As my Rabbi explained, these phenomenon need to be understood by rules beyond nature if in fact there is a metaphysical reality to the practice.
Now let me ask the non-Chabad folks a question if I may: What does one achieve by saying Kaddish? (Beyond tradition and commandment)
“np: This type of ad hominem attack is completely uncalled for. In this case it is also unfounded. CS has, to the best of her abilities, taken a significant amount of her time to provide comprehensive answers to just about every person who raised a question (even those posed with hostility)”
np: I repent for this statement–it was an emotional reaction and irrelevant to the argument. Hopefully CS forgives me.
“RSO: I believe that no one has answered my question as to where opening the igros at random originated and who said that it has any meaning at all. It certainly wasn’t the lubavitcher rebbe, so who had the authority to say that the following the answers/instructions one allegedly receives is correct according to Torah.”
I consulted with a Chabad Rabbi on this question. Of course he would be far better at explaining than I but this is how I understood it:
A Jew can choose to operate under the laws of nature or under the laws beyond nature. For example, we all see the parting of the sea as a miracle beyond nature but most do not view the rising of the sun as a miracle since it clothes itself in the laws of nature.
If the Jew seeks to operate beyond the laws of nature, this is accessible to him/her. Hashem has made it possible to learn of His ways through the Tzaddik. For example, Hashem spoke to Moses, who spoke to Aaron etc. and finally the people learned. One can attempt to learn His ways directly but the answers and the understanding may not be as clear to the seeker as the revelation from the Tzaddik.
According to my Rabbi, the Rebbe said at a farbregen that he cannot respond to all letters sent to him and that people should consult his letters “since he is answering them at the same time he is answering the original letter writer”. Hence, the followers of the Rebbe consider that amongst the letters he wrote are answers to their current issues.
I have not consulted the letters myself but I am told from my Rabbi who is trustworthy that he has observed remarkable coincidence between the letter picked at random and the seekers issue. Also, sometimes the letter seems to be irrelevant to the current question.
In my opinion, when one gains either a clear answer or what appears to be an irrelevant answer they naturally consider the problem with greater mental elaboration. That their decision making is thus enhanced could be a function of metaphysics or could be attributed to natural psychology. Perhaps “faith” comes into play at this point.
In any case, the consultation of the letters is seen as consultation with the living Rebbe who wrote these letters and at the time was writing to many people who were present or were to come in the future.
This violates our natural perceptions of time as linear but I believe the conception is consistent with Aristotelian temporal philosophy and as I understood the Rambam in his Guide.
DY
“Do you think the troubling hashkafos are also common?”If you would please describe the ones that concern you I could give you my opinion. I would say that according to most folks I have known in Chabad, we agree that the Shulchan Aruch HaRav depicts the behaviors that we are to engage in and how to engage in them. Minhagim are also proscribed based upon the sages and cannot be developed independently.
This said there is a signficant Kabbalistic etiology that informs Chabad Philosophy and one needs to be expert in this area to truly understand the significance of the proscribed behaviors. The ARIZAL seems to have the most influence in this area as an earlier poster suggested.
No-one worships the Rebbe although many ask for his intervention via letters at the Ohel (including myself). I am not wise enough to know how this could work but the belief is that every action on earth has a corresponding effect in heaven.
We love our Rebbe and most of us have at least a picture of him in our homes much like one would have of any beloved family patriarch. No-one davens to it nor would it ever be considered appropriate to do so. The idea of a picture of the Rebbe under a pillow at the Bris does not trouble most of us at all although no-one believes that this act in itself will somehow affect the life of the child. Most would view the behavior in the same way one may put a picture of a deceased grandfather in the same position.
AvraminMD
“Guess what? I don’t hate Chabad. I owe Chabad tremendous hakaras hatov, and have given sustained financial support. This thread has shaken me to the core.”I’ve been following this thread biting my tongue. I belong to a Chabad Shul and I can tell you that our great defender in this thread is far too arrogant to speak for most members or about Chabad philosophy. This level of arrogance is something that permeates the existence of many younger Chabad Shluchim and is troubling. She is obviously intelligent but her arguments should not be the basis of your perception. Everyone knows that one is forbidden to interact with spirits in the way she describes.
I know I act differently depending on who I am interacting with. Is it not possible that her behavior on this date was caused by some social energy between the 2 of them? It is enough that he decided he wants to keep looking–why imply her friends with a false report?
I’m sorry about your difficult time Moshe. It is hard to meet people without family and friends assisting. I’ve seen some of the comments here and I must state that some are so negative and arrogant that it pains me.
My advice to you is to pray often with tears if they come. I’m sure Hashem will hear you and may He grant you peace and a beautiful relationship with many children.Regarding not learning on the evening of Dec 24th, my Rebbe told me the reason we don’t learn between Mincha and midnight is because JC in in hell and it is at this time that he begs for mercy and reminds Hashem that he is a yid. The heavenly court then looks down and sees none of the yids learning so JC’s argument gains him no mercy.
May we all be blessed with revealed good and joy!