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modche1-
I feel bad saying this but the reputation and treatment that professional shadchanim live with is both earned and deserved.
A shadchan is supposed to set two people up and be a go between. A shadchan is not supposed to do the research, lie, stalk, twist arms, threaten and be a psychologist. (I’ll stop there in order to not give any ideas to any shadchanim who may be reading this.)
onTheList-
How did you get on the list? AZ said he didn’t take a single cent yet?
Not a joke this really happened (I was there).
Grumpy old man walks into a bakery and asks for a cheeses danish to go.
The lady behind the counter explained that they are a bakery- not a restaurant.
“Then last time when I ordered a prude danish, why did you ask me if it’s to go?”
I actually remember waking up to that on the news 21 years ago.
November 5th-
Rabbi Meir Kahane was shot and killed in a Manhattan Marriott Hotel after giving a speech.
yehudayona-
If the member is at work and got a ride there or took public transportation, his car should still be near his house so that if he has to go on a call when he comes home he doesn’t have to go searching for his car. His wife should park it there when she is done shopping.
She should not use it while visiting friends or while shopping.
I hope this addresses your concerns.
Parking regulations are governed by the DOT, the permit is issued by the DOT, therefore as long as the DOT rules are being followed I don’t see what the issue is.
It’s in everyones best interest for a Hatzala member to have his vehicle close by at all times. (Imagine if he had to run two blocks to get in his car and then do CPR.) So to answer your question- it can be used when not on calls.
As far as family/ friends using the permit and members who never go on calls- you may have a point there.
November 4th-
Yitzchok Rabin made his last public speech.
Does this wagon have anything to do with squeak’s ==>mysterious wagon<==?
gavra_at_work-
I think you may be getting at one of the roots of the shidduch crisis.
Communicates with dolphins
gavra_at_work-
I would hope that once one reaches twenty they realize that they are not a youngster anymore and that they have to mature.
If not then I agree with you 100% that if at 22 (or 40 for that matter) they are still on the same maturity level of a teenager then they should not even be thinking about getting married.
Jam-
There is more responsibility in marriage than just money.
Jam-
Thanks for disagreeing in a respectful way. Please keep in mind that my opinions are … opinions. If you can convince me that I’m wrong, I’ll side with you. Unfortunately your post has not convinced me for a number of reasons:
1. We’re not talking about other people/ communities, we’re referring to ourselves and our own communities. For better or for worse, the yeshiva structure was designed so that talmidim have minimal responsibilities so they can devote their full energy towards their learning. Marriage is an enormous responsibility.
2. I don’t know of any other communities that have a higher rate of successful marriages than ours. I may be wrong but I’m not trying to open a can of worms here.
3. Even if on the outside it looks like a couple is happily married- you never know what goes on behind closed doors.
4. Check out the Shalom Bayis area of imamother.com. You’ll see many, many cases where people who were too young to get married got married. (Please be aware that their moderators are not as good as ours, if you know what I mean:))
In any event- consider the supply and demand graphs from economics. Vendors try to come up with the perfect price for a product- too high and not enough people will buy it and the vendor will be left with a surplus, too low and the vendor won’t have enough to meet the demand of society.
If one takes a supply and demand graph that is in perfect equilibrium and raises the price- I won’t be able to say who won’t buy the product anymore but I will be able to say around how many people will stop buying it.
So too, we don’t want people getting married too young while they are not mature enough, or too old when they are set in their ways. Assuming that the graph- age at marriage and divorce rate- is in perfect equilibrium now (which I’m not saying it is), if we shift the age graph to the left by three years you will see a steep spike in the divorce rate. And yes- we will be blaming ourselves for the divorce crisis that will be created.
gavra_at_work & JAM
When the Roshei Yeshiva implement their “boys married at 19” idea, that will be a gamechanger.
Sure, go right ahead and convince them to get married at 19, then when the divorce rate sky-rockets you’ll be saying “we caused the tragedy”.
apushatayid-
Anyone that’s been here long enough and read the shidduchim threads knows that AZ is the head of NASI. When he writes things like “I’m told the full detailed explaination will appear in various newspapers.” we lose respect for NASI and some may write thing that we otherwise would not.
Furthermore, as you can see from my post above- AZ agrees with my list but for some reason he doesn’t want to enforce it on shadchanim before letting them have the list. Makes you wonder…
I’m no expert in shidduchim, the list above is a sampling from the abuse I suffered at the hands of too many ruthless shadchanim, but if everyone would offer their ideas and some experts could see which ones have substance- maybe we could get somewhere.
areivim pulled that off…
So did Volvie, it didn’t get him too far though.
But to answer your question- he difinitely lead an interesting life in yeshiva (you had to see his room). He’s married now so he may have settled down.
AZ-
(Dr. Pepper. Why don’t you ask NASI to insist that all your suggested guidlines be required for any shadchan getting the list :), but don’t waste your time it’s not happening
For those of you who are not familiar with the suggested guidelines that were mentioned a few months ago in different threads I’ll post it again. While it may sound like common sense and basic courtesy, apparently many shadchanim are seriously lacking those middos.
1. Don’t lie- If someone asks a question it usually means that it’s important to them. It’s not up to you to decide what’s important or not.
2. Don’t stalk- I found it creepy when Shadchannim found out who I previously dated and who I was currently dating. It’s none of your business and if you “happened” to have found out somehow you are not allowed to share this information!
3. Don’t give my name out without my permission- If I never asked you to put my name on your list but you got it from my yeshiva please ask me before distributing it. It’s not fair to my friends, neighbors, Rabbeim and relatives to get numerous calls about me when I can’t possibly date all of them anyway. It’s also not fair to me to get a reputation as a guy who says “no” to everyone.
4. Don’t use excessive pressure- If it’s a “no” then it’s “no”, if I need more information then I’ll let you know.
AZ, you even agreed with me that my list was ==>”common sense and basic middos.“<==
As the CEO of NASI why wouldn’t you enforce those guidelines?
charlie brown & Englishman-
The stories that I wrote about myself are true. The stories that I wrote about others I assume are true. If there was any reason to doubt the story I usually mentioned that.
charlie brown-
If you know the story so well then let’s hear what actually killed his date?
You’d have a better chance claiming that you were the girl since there is no way the guy remembers the story or will ever be on this website.
These two are for the old timers:
“Sometimes A Bit Over The Right”
“talmid”
popa_bar_abba-
For the record- I never did anything on a date for the sole purpose of repeating it afterwards.
I may have done it once or twice (OK maybe a few more times).
In cases where I only went out with the girl to get the shadchan to stop harrassing me, my friends, my Rabbeim and my family I would sometimes try to get them to say “no”.
The reason for this is that if I would say “no” the shadchan would say that I didn’t give it a fair chance, that I already made up my mind from before. (She also wouldn’t be able to twist my hand and say “give it one more try”.)
charlie brown-
Actually I immediately recognized the number as 2^12.
I’ve posted all the stories I can think of (except for the ones that will get me banned R”L). If any new stories come up I’ll post them, I’m not in yeshiva and B”H haven’t dated in a long time so don’t hold your breath.
charlie brown-
Very good! You get extra credit for that one.
Do you know the person or do you remember the other time it came up?
Either way- thanks for cracking me up.
AZ-
Do they get back the $500?
Nat-
It looks like you’re starting to understand the issue.
But the reality, whether we like it or not, is that shadchanim will try harder if they have a chance of being compensated. They are volunteers, not licensed professionals.
So they aren’t professionals, yet they expect to be compensated as professionals?
So they’re going to try harder? Is that what we need? More pressure, more lying, twisting more arms?
You can’t imagine how I wished they would have decided to never call me back. I was so relieved whenever a “professional” shadchan said they would never call back (only to break the promise shortly thereafter).
Nat-
I’m going to respectfully disagree with your opinion.
Offering an enormous reward for something that has in the past only commanded a modest compensation will lead to professional shadchanim getting nastier in the techniques that they have become famous for.
I shudder at the thought of all the lying, tricking, hand twisting and you name it that a shdachan will go through while drooling over a potential $13,000.
When I was dating I would have sooner brushed off a professional shdachan (while I was still taking names from them) if I knew they were in it solely for the money.
As I’ve mentioned in older threads, I think the first thing any organization that seriously wants to end the crisis should do is to crack down on the shadchanim. Have a committee of Rabonnim that creates a list of rules that all shadchanim who want to be certified by them must follow. If a shadchan suggests a shidduch, either side can verify that the shadchan is in compliance with the accepted rules. When a shadchan goes against the rules it should immediately be reported to the committee and investigated. Punishments should range from (but not limited to) warnings, financial disciplines, suspension of certification and permanent revocation.
Giving these large payouts is rewarding terrorism.
Funny,
You remind me of a call from a collection agency claiming they bought an old debt of mine.
When I told them that they had the correct last name but wrong first name they wanted to know
1. My full name,
2. Social Security Number,
3. Date of Birth,
4. Mothers Maiden Name….
This was standard procedure to see if any of the information matches.
Here’s my issue with this new idea.
(I can’t stress enough that I represent no one besides myself and my opinions are strictly my own.)
As I have mentioned in the past- NASI is an organization that hides behind a cloak of anonymity- did anyone notice a single name mentioned in the add or just a place where to send a couple thousand dollars? They have made claims of outstanding success but one reading their flyers has no way of verifying the results.
Even if this idea does have a minimal amount of success, which I highly doubt it will, it still does not get to the root of the problem.
yungerman1-
I have ventured into other threads with horrible consequences. When I wished SJSinNYC a mazel tov on the birth of her daughter I must have said something that offended her since she hasn’t been seen since. (At least not on YWN.)
More recently whenever I comment on a thread about Joseph the thread is either deleted or locked. I did comment on on the 4096th General Shmooze though.
bpt- As I was passing by the Gehry Building (8 Spruce St.) this morning I also noticed the scaffolding around the Park Row Building including the two cupolas. I was wondering if they are making the cupolas up to current fire code standards so that we can move in (I’ll let you have the one close to the Brooklyn Bridge).
Wouldn’t it be great to be the first ones to know when Squeaks “wagons” are in town?
LuvsLife-
Reminds me of a story my father told me from when he was in yeshiva.
A guy borrowed his fathers car for the week of sheva berachos. One morning the father decides to take the car but didn’t want to disturb the newlyweds so he didn’t call them. The guy notices that the car is gone and panics. He calls the police, shows them the registration to “prove” that he is the owner and a short time later the police pull over the “thief”. The “thief” didn’t have the registration on him but he showed the cops his drivers license (which in those days didn’t have a picture).
He was arrested for car theft and using a fake ID. (The cops assumed that the son was the owner and the father found the ID in the car and “pretended” that he was the owner.)
The newlyweds spent a full day of sheva berachos bailing out their father / father-in-law from jail for stealing his own car and impersonating himself!
2scents
There was another poster whose name was Joseph that was impersonated by the “fake” Joseph. From what I remember (this goes back some time) the original Joseph had his account and all his posts deleted.
If he is who I think he is, his name is not Joseph.
Ralph, I don’t know where you’re getting your statistics.
CCO of a large (now defunct) corporation in an interview with Ralph Nader shortly before the company went under.
Can you explain how this was calculated?
Assuming that the absolute value of any change, in a volatile market like this, between 0 and 999.99 is equally probable, there are 5,280 different ways that the five digits can sum to 26 out of 100,000 total.
(5,280/100,000)^3 = 0.000147197952 or 1 in 6,793.57.
(Off by a factor of 147,197,952)
I can only try-
My sister once showed me some math mix ups that actually work. For example:
19/95 => cross out the 9 from the numerator and denominator => 1/5.
Can you think of any others? (I don’t know of any off hand.)
I was once sitting next to someone on the train who was doing his homework and he was solving for x.
He had 2x = 24. So he crossed out the 2 from both sides and circled x = 4. I was in so much pain so I asked him if I could help, I told him I liked math in school.
“Sir”, he replied, “this isn’t regular math, it’s college level algebra, it’s not as easy as it looks. I don’t think you’ll be able to help me.”
In elementary school our Rebbi took us bowling.
After we left someone pointed out that I was still wearing my bowling shoes. A nice Bais Medrash guy took me back to get my sneakers.
aries2756-
Yikes, I never thought of that. Things definitely changed over the past 20 to 25 years. Once the person gives the kid a dollar the giver is buying trust.
mustangrider-
The house she was in landed on someone and killed them.
As with any program or idea- there are pros and cons.
Parents and educators should explain what the rules (i.e. no collecting after it gets dark, during davening…) are and they have to be followed, or they won’t be allowed to volunteer.
One organization I volunteered for (as a 13 year old) had a rule that if someone demands the money- no matter how small the perpetrator is and no matter how much money we collected- we have to give them everything.
modchebp-
After reading your post in another thread I think I smell something fishy.
You made over 30 shidduchim in 8 months which will come out to 45 per year if you keep it up. Now assuming you only get $2,500 from each side for your hard work- that’s $5,000 per shidduch and $225,000 per year (not including the fees for accepting resumes, meeting clients and dates that don’t work).
You stated above that 1 in 200 work, that means that you make 9,000 attempts per year.
With all the time you say is involved in setting up two people can you please explain how you have the time to set up two people 9,000 time?
Thanks
AZ-
That post was in response to your earlier post (#280205) I just thought I’d throw in a line and a half to thank you for reading my post and agreeing. 🙂
$3,000 a month (tax free), working at home with zero skill or training sounds like a lot to me. I’d be surprised if there are even a handful of opportunities that bring in the same amount with no training or skill.
aries2756-
I’m married already. I was speaking on behalf of those that are still dating; based on my experiences while dating.
Sorry for the confusion.
If my post came across as being arrogant please be assured that it was not my intention.
AZ-
Thanks for agreeing on the basic concepts. I think if we build from here we’ll see that there is much more that we agree on.
Being a shadchan, unlike virtually every other profession, requires no training- yet there is lots of money to be earned if the couple ends up getting married. The monetary cost of setting up a potential couple is minimal, the expenses are incurred by the ones dating, and failures are, for the most part, kept secret.
This may look like the perfect opportunity for a stay-at-home parent to make money without spending any. Truth is though- making a shidduch requires lots of skill.
(As I said in a different thread, picking names out of a hat will eventually work- just like a broken clock shows the correct time twice a day. If one only points to the clock at the two times a day that it is displaying the correct time, others will think it works!)
The ones who are suggesting shidduchim for any reason other than the righteous purposes are making it extremely unpleasant for everyone else. They need to be stopped immediately!
A shadchan getting a large payment is something I have no issue with- provided that they showed the proper decency to the people they helped.
Mayan_Dvash-
Just because one is involved in shidduchim doesn’t mean one had to be nasty.
If there would be a list of guidelines one has to follow it would make the shidduch experience much more pleasant for everyone involved.
I posted the following suggestions in a different thread in June.
This should all be common sense but unfortunately it still has to be mentioned.
(Like I wrote in the other post- everything is my opinion and I am not representing my opinion as fact.)
1. Don’t lie- If someone asks a question it usually means that it’s important to them. It’s not up to you to decide what’s important or not.
2. Don’t stalk- I found it creepy when Shadchannim found out who I previously dated and who I was currently dating. It’s none of your business and if you “happened” to have found out somehow you are not allowed to share this information!
3. Don’t give my name out without my permission- If I never asked you to put my name on your list but you got it from my yeshiva please ask me before distributing it. It’s not fair to my friends, neighbors, Rabbeim and relatives to get numerous calls about me when I can’t possibly date all of them anyway. It’s also not fair to me to get a reputation as a guy who says “no” to everyone.
4. Don’t use excessive pressure- If it’s a “no” then it’s “no”, if I need more information then I’ll let you know.
modchebp-
I respectfully disagree with you. Unfortunately far too many people are suggesting shidduchim without the proper intentions. Ignoring them is not a possibility as they continue to call or resort to other tactics. (It came to the point that some friends and I refused to deal with ANY professional shadchan.)
Read up on some of the horror stories I’ve posted in other threads, I’m too busy to rewrite them now.
I agree with you on this.
At this time though, I’m going to make a connection between your comment here and some comments you posted on the Shadchanus Gelt thread. Please don’t get offended by this as I have no idea who you are.
Kolel life is not for everyone and it is a great zechus to be able to stay in kolel for so many years..But lehavdil just like Harvard is not for everyone neither is 5 or 10 years for everyone.
Just like not everyone belongs in Kolel and not everyone belongs in Harvard, so too, not everyone belongs in Shadchanus.
The problem, in my opinion, with shadchanim these days is that there is lots of money involved when an idea comes to fruition, but no consequences, even for malicious behavior, when nothing comes of the idea.
Anyone, without any background or training, can suggest a shidduch, and two or three dates later (and possibly between $200 and $300 later) if it doesn’t work, all the shadchan has to say it, “Oops, it obviously wasn’t meant to be”.
There should be a board (or some sort of similar structure) as well as mandatory training and certification that a professional shadchan has to go through before being allowed to get lists from yeshivas and seminaries and suggest shidduchim.
Additionally, there should be a list of rules that any certified shadchan has to follow or face monetary fines as well as suspension of certification, or even permanent revocation for more serious offences.
This will filter out the yentas who don’t belong in shidduchim anyway and restore respect for the few that do.
Yes, you got it.
(Do you know any of my other brothers?)
missme-
Where were you living at the time and where was the guy from?