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Raising kids is different for every family and it’s a careful balance based on each family’s unique parameters. I respect your approach but we do things differently.
There’s no limit to what I’d spend to ensure that my kids have the best education and I don’t consider this a luxury that my kids are going to turn into a necessity.
I don’t discuss tuition with my kids for the most part (when they turn 18 and I have no access to their college accounts I need them to hand me the statements so I can pay them). I would also never discuss with my kids that I felt a school wasn’t acting reasonable with pricing (except possibly a college). B”H I never felt that my kids could be getting a better education elsewhere. There were a few times that I felt the schools could’ve handled things differently but at the end of the day- if I discussed it with them and they didn’t agree- it’s their school and I had to respect their decisions.
As far as making new friends is concerned- I wasn’t talking about neighbors who wouldn’t talk to you because you switched your kids out of one school- of course you probably shouldn’t have been friends with them to begin with. I was referring to your kids not being able to easily stay friends with the kids they used to be with in class and on the bus. It can be hard coming into a new school knowing very few kids and having to make new friends when most of the kids already have their groups of friends.
@eddie
I agree with your earlier post but to a very limited degree. There is an initial sunk cost in opening a school and every additional student taken in adds a small variable expense. But- when the school needs to add a parallel class, all of the sudden you need an additional classroom and teachers- the cost is going to jump significantly. If a school has 250 students from Kindergarten to 8th grade that’s about 25 kids give or take per grade and one class per grade. Once the number is hovering around 1,000 the school needs 3 to 4 classes per grade and a much larger building than the schools you dealt with. This all costs lots of more money than just the differential of adding one more student a few hundred times.
I’m not sure why you’re having a hard time believing that a far right school, where the Rabbeim and teachers are paid far less than their counterparts in public schools, and without the same bloated budgets as public schools, can educate kids for a fraction of what public schools do. The general cost in the US per public school kid is hovering around $20,000.
The figures I got were from the CPA that audited the schools books on behalf of the bank that they applied for a loan from. He claimed that full tuition covers each kid plus an extra percentage for those who don’t pay full tuition. There’s still a shortfall that’s closed with fundraising.
If everyone paid full tuition (which I know is never going to happen) there would be no need for the extra percentage or fundraising. That scholarship that you’re getting is taking away from those paying that extra percentage. Furthermore- if everyone paid full tuition and the school did fundraising as well- that would lower the cost of full tuition for everyone and leave more money in the pockets of those paying full tuition.
I’m not a CPA but I’m under the impression that the extra percentage isn’t tax-deductible as it’s listed as tuition. If the school listed tuition and a mandatory donation- that donation would be considered tax-deductible. Schools hesitate to do that as they feel that parents may put up a fight.
(One school had a mandatory amount that each family had to fundraise for the school. As we never complied it was added to our next year’s tuition balance and we’d get a tax-deductible receipt for that amount.)
Why don’t they have the option of executing terrorists who aren’t in uniform? They’re not protected under the Geneva Convention.
@eddie
My kids go to far right schools and there’s no way that it costs $40,000 per kid and they’re fundraising the difference. At around 1,000 students Bli Ayin Hora, they’re not raising over $30,000,000 every year. I’m not affiliated with other schools and don’t know what goes on there.
(As a side point- the local public schools receive about $20,000 annually per kid. The Frum schools don’t have the same bloated budgets as public schools, they don’t have unionized teachers and they don’t have the same benefits that public school teachers have. I’d expect the cost per kid to be much less than in public schools.)
My kids are gifts from Hashem and my most treasured assets, which is why I take pride in tuition being my first and highest priority. (In 2024 we probably paid more than four times the amount on tuition than we did on our mortgage.)
Switching a kid to another school can be hard as they’ll be leaving their friends and coming into a new school where the kids already have their groups of friends. They may be behind (or ahead) of the curriculum in the new school- it’s not always easy to catch up (or spending a year to learn something for the second time). Is the new school going to give your kids the attention they deserve if they know that you’re only sending them there to prove a point to another school and then you’ll switch them back or to somewhere else?
We choose schools based on where our kids are going to succeed the most- not to show the schools that we have other options. We choose schools where we trust that the faculty will do what is in the best interest of the child, regardless of whether it’s in their own best interest.
I agree that you can’t capture everything- if I had enough time I’d love to build a flexible tuition scholarship model where new scenarios can easily be added. While it may not contain every possible scenario- it will contain all the scenarios presented to the committee once all the applications are filled out and the model has been updated.
My point though is that even if the model contained every possible scenario- there’s a 0% chance that everyone will find it fair.
Let’s head back to the example of the mother who willfully didn’t work and got assessed $50,000 of income for the benefits that he got. Let’s say she could be earning $100,000 if she took the job. I could see another mother saying it’s not fair that she had to leave her kids all day and work and on top of that get charged additional tuition than if she stayed home all day with her kids like the other person.
(By the way- I do agree with you that handouts/ government programs should be considered income.)
That calculation doesn’t pass the smell test.
Take the entire school budget for the fiscal year and divide it by the number of kids in the school (possibly prorate it by grade as for example preschool is less expensive than older grades). Once an expense is determined at the individual level and a surcharge above that is added for full tuition- a family should be able to ask for a tax deduction for the surcharge(s).
Asking for more than that is just not honest. (I’m not sure what context you saw that in though.)
The school that I spoke with the auditor about would project their annual budget and add a certain percentage to the individual tuition responsibilities for full tuition. Whatever shortfalls they were left with was closed with fundraising.
I’m not under the impression that have a certain amount to give out in scholarships and they divide discretionally.
You seem concerned about the intrusion of the tuition committee into peoples personal lives. I’m not trying to belittle that but point out how much worse it is when vicious Shadchanim find out that someone exists (may Hashem protect us all from them and their wicked tactics).
A family only needs to deal with a tuition committee (and again, I understand that it may be very uncomfortable) once they decide that they want to send their kids there and ask for a scholarship application. If they feel that the questions are too personal they’re welcome to not fill it out and apply elsewhere.
Once an evil shadchan gets ahold of your name there’s nothing you can do. Even after you tell them that you’re not interested in working with them and give them no permission to make calls on your behalf (the polite ones will tell you that it’s too bad because that’s not how the system works while the rude ones won’t even acknowledge your concerns) they’re going to call everyone you know and ask the most personal questions (and trust me, it’s not limited to finances) under the ruse that לשון הרע doesn’t apply to shadchanim.
I can’t tell from your post if you’re offended. If you are- it wasn’t my intent and I apologize.
If it was just inflows and outflows that would be a black and white calculation but it’s much more complicated than that and there’s lots of gray areas in between- and again, there’s going to be lots of strong points on both sides. It would also give families the opportunity to play the system if they knew the weight that each item carries.
For example-
I once overheard a (stay at home) mother in the park saying that she got a job offer but won’t be accepting it since after all the handouts outs that she’s going to lose out on and the extra tuition she’s going to pay- she’s going to come home with only $2 per hour. Do you think that’s fair to everyone else who’s working hard and would love to stay home and spend more time with their kids? Would it be fair to add an extra $50,000 income to the scholarship calculation for any able bodied person who chooses not to work?
How about the people that got their houses for free? Is it fair that those working hard to pay their mortgage and full tuition should be subsidizing the tuition of those who have no mortgage and could take out a heloc? I also understand why someone would have concerns about having a lien on their home. I see both sides.
There was a school where parents found out that they gave discounts to families from a neighboring community (regardless of whether they needed it or not, full tuition was less). Their response was that “you have no choice where to send your kids- they can decide between us and a different neighboring community so we need to compete for them”. They weren’t adding more classes so the marginal cost per kid was small but it brought in lots of money. Again, I can see both sides.
Take two similar people- one who has no problem getting his hands dirty and maintaining his house and car while the other one wouldn’t dare climb under a car. Car and house maintenance is a legitimate expense for the latter one while the former one may not agree. This is another gray area. How would you handle that if you were on the committee?
The tax deductible receipt one had me scratching my head as well- I can’t imagine that there’s that many families that pay above the amount of what it costs to educate their kids and would make a stink about the extra amount. The tax savings wouldn’t be insignificant and the “donation” amount could possibly be doubled if their employers have matching gift programs. Luckily I’m not part of a scholarship committee.
I’m all for transparency but there are some consequences. Do you actually want someone with a gripe to go through the books with a magnifying glass and complain about every penny that they don’t agree with?
At work we call it the Perry Mason Rule (and no, I’m not old enough to remember it), if we don’t have to share or disclose something- we don’t. Trust me- there are many times that my life would be easier if I could just share my entire financial model with the auditors but the higher ups won’t let. They don’t want those auditors, who are looking for problems, to have access to the full model. I need to cut out exactly what they’re looking for and give it to them.
When my son’s school applied for a loan to renovate / expand their building the bank hired an auditor to go through their books and he spilled the beans to me. (Okay- some auditors are cool.) Trust me- there’s nothing explosive in there but someone looking for some excitement could get lots of parents all riled up.
@Chaim87-
I haven’t come across a way to collect tuition and give out scholarships that is fair to everyone. I’ve come across many opinions that say the only fair way to do it is this or that but once you look at it from the other direction it’s no longer fair.
Tuition is just one of those things that’s in a category by itself with nothing even remotely comparable.
What other expenses does one have in life that they can’t skimp on? You want to save money- buy a smaller house, eat out less, spend less on vacations, get a few more years out of your car… But when it comes to tuition- there’s no saving money- if you have the money you need to pay it.
Additionally, where else can you find a service where people pay based on what they can afford and everyone gets the same service?
A guy I used to sit next to at work subscribed to every WhatsApp tuition rant he could get himself onto and some of the discussions really had two sides and I got to see both of them and I literally could’ve taken either one.
One posters was willing to pay full tuition (which included the full amount for his kid plus a “secret” percentage above that) but he wanted a tax-deductible receipt for everything above what it cost to educate his kid. The school refused as they were concerned that those paying full tuition would give them a hard time about paying that extra percentage.
What about the tuition board that says that a person shouldn’t put away towards their 401(K) while getting a discount? Is it fair that he should lose out on the employer’s match? The school says that self employed parents don’t get a 401(K) match. Then there’s the government employee who gets a pension without having to set aside for a 401(K). Should he have to use part of his pension to pay back the school for the scholarships he got at the expense of those who couldn’t save for retirement?
There’s also the guy demanding that his kids get preferential treatment (I.e. leading roles in a school play, first choice at yearbook jobs…) since they pay full tuition while others were saying that their kids shouldn’t lose out because they can’t afford full tuition. (Would they go to a car dealership and claim that it’s not fair for their kid to drive a Yugo (yes, I remember those) instead of a Cadillac like their friends since they can’t afford it?) Is it fair that the teacher gives these out based on whose mother is a crank and has all the faculty phone numbers in her speed dial? (As a side story- someone asked a mother at a school play how her kids always have leading roles her response was “easy, the squeaky wheel gets the most grease”.)
In short- there may be a way to do all this fairly I just haven’t seen anything remotely close yet. I also don’t anticipate anything changing in the future.
(Also- can you explain what “parsonage” is (or what context you’re using it in)? I honestly thought it’s when a school (or other non-profit) lets their clergy live in a house on their property for free. I don’t see how this can be used to pay tuition.)
Don’t wait around for squeak- he’s not planning on joining the chess game this year.
Is NASI still around and if so, in what capacity? It’s been some time since @AZ posted anything here and I haven’t seen any of their ads in a publication recently.
Have there been any reliable studies shwoing that their efforts have worked to narrow the age gap between spouses? If indeed Litvish girls are getting married younger- are they marrying men closer to their age?
I discussed with @AZ 10+ years ago (and I still believe) that the “age gap” is a by product of more serious root causes that need to be resolved but aren’t being discussed. (He didn’t agree with me.)
I’m not siding with NASI on anything but hopefully you’ll agree that changes in the dynamics of the Litvish Community over the last half century brought in challenges that weren’t seen in the 32 1/2 centuries before that.
Thanks for your response.
At this point though, I don’t have much to add. When the OP posted the question I assumed that the thread would take the direction of those who it worked for giving some reasons as to why it worked for them and those who it didn’t work for would give some reasons as to why it didn’t work for them.
The OP would then have been able to get a better understanding of whether it would work for him/ her or not.
I voted for President Trump (three times) and I was equally horrified at the two-state solution he proposed.
Only after the Palestinians rejected the deal did I realize the brilliance of his proposal.
President Trump, with his sky high IQ, proposed a deal that was so biased against Israel and biased towards the Palestinians knowing full well that even so, the Palestinians would reject it. This showed any sane person in the world who the real enemy of peace is.
From the perceived tone of your post you seem to be offended at what I wrote. I assure you that it was definitely not my intention to offend you or anyone else. (Note that I made sure to include that it is a respectable profession.)
I was sharing (with the original poster) my personal experience as to why it wouldn’t have been the best choice for me. Anyone reading that can decide if it’s applicable to them or not.
I’m going to address your response now.
1. The state that I was in at the time had either already changed the requirements to 150 credits or it was going to go into effect in the not so distant future. My friends who took the exams a few years later needed 150 credits. (Although the vast majority were Yeshiva credits which were a non-issue.)
2. When I left Kollel and got my first corporate job (a fresh college graduate with 2 actuarial exams) the going salary for an accountant with no experience who had just passed the CPA was between 50% and 60% of what I was getting. That extra amount was crucial at the time as I already had some kids and another one on the way.
3. True- the salary in any position will plateau at a certain point- unless someone is willing to take some extra risks and put it lots of extra effort, something I’m not willing to do. My CPA friends (except for the ones who became partners/CFOs…) seemed to have plateaued about ten years in.
In my role I’ve been able to steadily move up by working on more complex products and projects (within the same department) and without taking risks or putting in significantly extra amounts of time. As of last year I definitely hadn’t plateaued and if I’m at my plateau now- well it’s different being here after 20 years in than after ten. (My second kid just graduated college and I just paid the last tuition statement- think about what kind of annual pre tax raise that feels like.)
4. When I was in college there was little to no chance that I would have settled in the state I was attending Yeshiva and college. Had I studied for and passed the CPA exams in that state I definitely wouldn’t have had enough experience for it to have been easily transferable after I got married, settled in NY and was looking for my first corporate position.
Even though I’m mostly retired from the Coffee Room I try to respond to all comments meant for me. If you reply please address it to me (by putting the “@“ symbol followed by my name at the beginning of the post) – it’ll make it easier for me to find.
When I was growing up I thought I was going to be a CPA. Although it is a respectable profession, when I started college my father convinced me out of it for the following reasons:
1. To sit for the exam you need 150 credits (not necessarily a masters per se but basically the equivalent),
2. After passing the CPA exam you still need a certain amount of experience to officially become a CPA,
3. The salary plateaus at a certain point unless you’re ambitious and put in lots of extra effort to really get ahead,
4. Ask around if you need different certifications for different states- it would be a shame to get certified in NY and then need to get additional certifications if you move to NJ.
5. This may not apply to you but he felt that I didn’t have enough personality to become a CPA.
This was all about 30 years ago and things may have changed since then (although I never looked back and regretted my decision).
Before making a decision though, check online what the going salary is for your location is and read the article in Mishapacha Magazine (Issue 1030) regarding the tuition crisis. It would be a shame to put in so much effort only to ask for scholarships, live paycheck to paycheck and not able to afford anything else.
Whatever you decide I wish you lots of הצלחה.
If you keep lying you going to be perpetually called a liar. 🤥
You’re willing to have an honest conversation? No you’re not, you’re lying 🤥 again!
Before I categorized you as a liar I gave you a few chances to correct yourself. I pointed out instances where you’ve lied and purposely misquoted me (in a fruitless attempt to discredit me) but you never explained or corrected yourself. I even linked the original thread as you supposedly couldn’t find it even though I told you the name and approximate date and you still haven’t responded to those accusations.
If someone were to ask me who I’m voting for the simple answer I will give is that I’m voting for President Trump. If they get into more detailed questions I will explain that it’s more that I’m voting against the Democrats and all that they stand for. I believe that I’ve always been clear on that.
Anyway- this discussion is reminiscent of the other one where I gave up on responding to you so unless you own up to your lies and do תשובה I’m done responding to your posts.
As some parting words of advice- if you can only stand up for your political party by lying and trying to discredit someone who points out your lies- maybe it’s time to rethink your political views.
If you can’t get away with lying in this world you’re definitely not going to get away with it in the next world.
Sadly I don’t think it’s going to happen. I invited squeak to come back but he’s not considering it.
I also suspected that it was an overreaction and once she starts doing press conferences and people are reminded of who she is, how she talks, how she laughs and how much damage she and Biden did to the country- the 401(k)s will shoot to even higher levels.
In the meantime I think השם is sending us a message not to be too comfortable and we need to continue to daven.
@ Little Froggie
I only know a fraction of what went on in the background but it was enough for me to decide to leave.
When I originally signed up for an account here I used an old email account that my wife used before we got married (I was afraid of spam) so I wasn’t too affected.
As I’ve mentioned before, no poster needs to ask me מחילה for anything. I understand that some posters may not agree with my Pro- Torah opinions and argue in a disrespectful way but by posting in a public forum I’m opening myself up to that and I forgive everyone retroactively.
@ ☕️coffee addict
I’m years away from retirement (and I love my job so much that I hope I never retire) but I do check my 401(k) on a regular basis. Not that I’m concerned with how much is in there but when it sky rocketed (before Biden was forced out of the running) I took it as a good sign that investors were betting on President Trump winning and fixing the economy. Unfortunately after Biden was forced out my 401(k) took a huge hit- not that I’m concerned about the amount that I lossed- I’m concerned that the investors aren’t so confident that President Trump will win and fix the economy. (I trust the direction of my 401(k) more than any polls out there.)
It brings up such good memories doesn’t it. Unfortunately it doesn’t look like those posters (or topics) will ever be back.
There you go again- lying and purposely misrepresenting what I said to discredit me. I’ve stated a number of times that I’m not voting for Donald Trump per se, rather I’m voting against the Democratic Party and all they stand for. Pointing out the hypocrisy of you and the other leftists, libs and laszlos on this site (by showing that Biden’s actions are worse than President Trump) in no way defends President Trump’s actions.
I’m relying entirely on something? I specifically wrote “Let’s assume”. Why are you purposely ignoring that? When did I ever say that Bill is more reliable than anyone else? I proposed a realistic scenario to try to get you to look at it from a different angle. Why do you have a hard time believing that something that Biden said isn’t true? I also made sure to end off the topic that I’m “skeptical”, not that I know for sure one way or the other. I also made sure to mention that that the NY Post article shouldn’t be taken as 100% factual either. Your purposely ignoring that speaks volumes about your credibility.
It contradicts with everything everyone else said on the subject? Did everyone else get their information from the same unreliable person (i.e. Joe Biden)? Why does it make it more believable when millions of people repeat something they heard from a notorious liar? He lied about how many grandkids he had (something the entire world knew he was lying about) to cover up his son’s affair, why do you find it so hard to believe that he would lie to cover up his own affair?
Where are you getting from that President Trump had documents scattered all around? I thought they were locked in a vault? There’s no comparison to President Trump having lots of boxes secured in a vault on a secure property to Hillary having secret information on a server that may have been hacked. And she purposely destroyed the evidence so no one will know.
Unless you start being honest, I’m most probably done communicating with you again.
You claim to be a glorified computer programmer so I’m not sure why you’re having such a hard time finding the thread when I told you the name (politicizing tragedies) and approximate date (mid 2022) but I looked it up for you. It’s here: https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/politizing-tradegies
August 7th 1974 – 50 years ago today.
At the top of the world-
Philippe Petit strung a cable from one of the Twin Towers to the other and walked back and forth 8 times over 45 minutes before surrendering to the Port Authority Police. He was arrested and charged with trespassing although the charges were dropped. He was 24 at the time and had been planning this since 1968.Meanwhile at the bottom of the world-
The Glomar Explorer, a “drilling ship” operated by the CIA, had lowered a grappler to the bottom of the Pacific Ocean and was slowly raising Russian Nuclear Submarine, K-129, that had sank a number of years earlier. The CIA wanted to check out the nuclear weapons as well cryptographic equipment and code books. The submarine broke in two on the way up and it’s unclear what the CIA was able to recover. Planning for this mission began in 1968 as well.It’s not me that changed it’s the Coffee Room and Society as a whole that changed.
When I created an account here the Coffee Room didn’t even exist- and when it was created there wasn’t even a link to it on the homepage- I used to scroll down to latest “Mailbag” post and navigate from there. Do you also have fond memories of the early days?
In its infancy the Coffee Room was a great place to safely shmooze with Frum people with lots of entertaining and thought provoking topics and barely any politics (which I mostly ignored). After the breach (והמבין יבין) I no longer felt safe and left (except for an annual April Fools visit).
Unfortunately it looks like most of the fun topics and people from back then are gone, replaced with politically based topics and ferocious anti- Torah posters who feel that their beliefs need to be shared. I feel that there needs to be someone to stand up for השם and the תורה in a place that’s called “The Yeshiva World”.
Trust me, it’s not in my nature to write like this and I wish someone else would step up and do the dirty work.
There seems to be too many simple minded people here who can ח״ו be swayed by the ideology of some of the vicious leftists, libs and laszlos who post their anti- Torah garbage and someone needs to point it out.
You’re good with following patterns- I’m hoping that you and everyone else will take note that I tried being diplomatic with everyone here (I’m not perfect) until the other person began acting in an uncivil manner.
@ ☕️coffee addict
No, it wouldn’t. But the size of my 401(k) wouldn’t either matter yet I’m not about to drain it.
The bottom line is we have to hope that משיח comes today but be prepared in case he doesn’t.
I have yet to see a leftist, lib, laszlo justify their voting Democrat on the hopes that the world will be destroyed sooner and משיח will be here sooner.
In real life I try to be the nicest person as I’m very מקפיד on בן אדם לחברו but I’m more concerned with בן אדם למקום hence why you may think that I’m aggressive when it comes to defending השם (on a website geared to Frum people no less). Luckily I barely have to deal with people claiming to be Frum but with leftist views. On the rare occasion I pretend to be clueless while engaging the offender in what they think is small talk until they come to the realization that their views are contradictory. Some admit that they never looked at it from the other side while some just dig themselves deeper and deeper.
It’s funny that you mention Shidduchum as I’m a survivor of Shadchan abuse and tried everything that I could think of to get them to leave me alone. Unfortunately telling them off, hanging up on them and just not answering the phone didn’t work as they’d send my friends after me. Coming from a family of חסד my mother invited over her friends who had daughters in shidduchim but couldn’t get the shadchanim to answer the phone or return their call. (This was before the days of cellphones but people were starting to get Caller ID.) It was hilarious how they’d pick up on the first ring when they saw the number on the Caller ID- and then come up with a lame excuse why they didn’t have time and promise to call back but never did.
Anyway- back to the topic. Let’s assume that in 1972 Joe and his late wife were at the Stone Balloon and Joe saw Jill, sniffed her hair and decided that he liked the way it smells. He introduces himself as a Senator and the ever so power hungry Jill thinks this may be her opportunity to eventually become the wife of a Senator and the two start an affair. Not too far fetched yet.
Eventually Jill’s ex learns of the affair, the marriage breaks down and Joe finds himself a widower. If he’s still trying to build his political career and she’s vying for more power do you really think they’re going to be honest with the Wilmington Morning News as to how they met or concoct a more innocent story?
Do you honestly think that Jill’s ex would want it publicized that his wife ran off with a hair sniffing perverted senator? Do you think that he’d have the same kind of press time that she did? Do you think that maybe he was afraid of Joe and his brother after they weaponized the DOJ against him?
Hopefully by now you understand why I’m a bit skeptical about your sources. (Not that the NY Post article should be taken as 100% factual either.)
I still don’t agree with you that President Trump is a bigger liar and cheater than Biden. If presidents were chosen by their moral behavior we could discuss that. Given the crisis going on in the country and entire world, presidents should be chosen by policy and reputation above anything else.
Which president had no wars starting under their command? Which president brought down the price of gas? Which president caused inflation to sky rocket? Which president opened the borders to illegal immigrants? Which president is compromised by China? And the list goes on and on.
Now it’s sickening that people claiming to be Frum can disregard all that, while over 100 of our brothers and sisters are still being held hostage, and claim that they can’t vote for President Trump because he’s immoral but would have voted for Biden despite his immoral behavior.
Claiming that President Trump is משיח is pushing it a little too far but the recent events are going to make it pretty hard for anyone to justify to השם in the next world why they voted Democrat.
I understand if you don’t have an instant recall to every thread you commented in so that’s why I pointed you to the politicizing tragedies thread (from mid 2022). In that thread you accused me of quoting the NRA (an association that I abhor) near- verbatim in an effort to discredit me. I gave you numerous instances to show me the quote or retract what you wrote. When you refused to I felt that you lost your חזרת כשרות and that was one of the reasons why I stopped responding to your posts.
@ Reb Eliezer
Before finding faults in others look at yourself.
You consider yourself intelligent yet you still vote Democrat. Obviously just because someone is smart (or thinks they’re smart) doesn’t mean that they never do the wrong thing.
If you’re that smart why don’t you see that the consequences of voting Democrat are more wars, higher gas prices, higher food prices, unsecured borders, increased fentanyl deaths, rampant immorality, increased antisemitism, funding for our adversaries…?
@ Reb Eliezer
Were you replying to someone in particular?
Thankfully I’m not either a debater- I’d go out of my mind if on a regular basis I had to deal with people like you (who lie, purposely miss the point, ignore things that they don’t want to answer and try to make the person they’re conversing with look bad when they have nothing left so say).
I asked you where you got your information from and you refused to answer that but then you criticize me for not stating my source. I purposely didn’t state my source as I mentioned that it was biased against Biden. If you really wanted to know you could have done a Google Search and found it in less than five seconds. (But anyway- check out the article titled “Jill Biden’s ex-husband accuses her of affair with Joe in 1970s” from the New York Post.) Of course, that article is going to be contrary to most other sources on the Internet because Jill has a louder voice online and someone like you who is biased against President Trump isn’t going to look for the other side of the story.
Now you’re purposely missing the point again. I’m not discussing President Trumps morality or credibility, what I’m saying is that Biden has said some really bad lies (I listed some in the “End of MAGA” thread that you conveniently ignored) and done some really immoral stuff (like showering with his teenage daughter per her diary). Anyone who claims that they’re not voting for President Trump because of his credibility or morality but was planning on voting for Biden before he was forced out is seriously disturbed (regardless of whether their lies can be classified as in the same ballpark or not).
You mentioned in the “End of MAGA” thread that you would like to respond to the accusations so I pointed out the thread where you consistently lied. Do you plan on responding?
@ Reb Eliezer
If that was always true then that’s a different story. Unfortunately it’s not always the case.
Where are you getting this information from? In the article that I read Jill’s ex claimed that Joe starting getting close to Jill (and a little too close according to some acquaintances) two years earlier than Jill claims.
Although this article was clearly biased against Biden as it mentions how he and his brother threatened the ex to let Jill have the entire house or they’re going to send the DOJ after him (which they ultimately ended up doing) so I don’t know which is accurate one way or the other.
You may also want to read up about how Biden destroyed the life of the truck driver after his late wife accidentally drive into his path. Biden claimed that he was drinking- which was a lie. She ran a stop sign and he didn’t.
By the way- President Trumps moral behavior isn’t in question so I’m not sure why you’re bringing it up. The issue is with people who say that they’re not voting for President Trump because of his immortality but would have voted for Biden if he wasn’t forced out.
It used to happen to me all the time- I’d put it on the dashboard, slam the door and the receipt would go flying. What I got into the habit of doing is leaving one of the back doors open while I close the front door and then slowly closing the back door (and double and triple checking the dashboard). Sure it’s a pain but it’s less of a pain than fighting a ticket.
I’m not the only one who has that issue, a friend of @bein_hasidorim had that problem on a date, luckily she had lip gloss to stick it to the dashboard (not sure what he does now as if I remember correctly the trick worked but not the date).
I’m familiar with that. She ultimately got divorced anyway- didn’t she?
My point was that some posters had an issue with President Trumps immoral behavior with unmarried women while purposely ignoring Joe’s immoral behavior with a married woman.
I was walking by a meter maid who slapped a ticket on a car in a way that there was practically no way it was going to be there by the time the owner got back. When I mentioned it to her she patted the printer on her side and said that as long as it’s recorded there it’s all good.
I wish you lots of הצלחה and lots of נחת from your son but before moving forward I think you should look into cases where someone was expelled and then let back in using pull, connections or whatever method was available and seeing what their experience was afterwards. (It wasn’t always pleasant.)
Also, keep in mind that (as I’m sure you already know) just because a kid was expelled, it doesn’t mean that it’s the kid that doesn’t belong there.
I’m not sure what difference it makes.
I think I see what the issue is. I have two categories when it comes to lying-
(1). Those that don’t lie
(2). Those that do lie.You seem to have two categories as well albeit very different ones-
(1). Those who either lie like a politician or don’t lie
(2). Everyone else.There not much you can respond to the accusations as I gave you ample opportunities back then before recategorizing you. Apparently you felt that as long as your lies are delegitimizing someone who doesn’t agree with you then you’re right along with politicians.
Head over to the thread regarding politicizing tragedies from late Spring / early Summer of 2022 if you don’t recall what I’m referring to.
Biden dastardly claimed that no soldiers were killed while he was president, knowing good and well that 13 US Heroes died in his bungled Afghanistan withdrawal- and that their families were probably watching him live. I don’t care if you want to excuse that because it’s ok for politicians to talk like that – it’s very wrong.
Biden claiming that he only has six grandchildren to hide his son’s affair that the entire world already knows about is just cruel. Think of his poor grandkid who, besides being born into the most corrupt family in the US and now has her very own grandfather pretending that she’s insignificant and doesn’t exist. Are you justifying it because that’s how politicians are?
What about his outright lies regarding his son’s business and the bribes that made him a compromised president? Are you writing that off as well since it’s politics as usual?
Anyone who says that they weren’t going to vote for President Trump because he lies but was going to vote for Biden instead is seriously sick in the head.
I was hoping to get a response from @yechiell but he obviously has something to hide. I stopped conversing with you over two years ago as you seem to have some serious honesty issues. But given that this post is about lying, something you’re experienced in, I’m going to make an exception and respond.
I asked @yechiell for a single example of where President Trump lied during the debate and the instance he mentioned was when President Trump downplayed the events of January 6th. I asked him why that bothers him more than the outright lie from Biden that he’s the only president this century who doesn’t have any, this decade, that doesn’t have any troops dying anywhere in the world.
Are you equating Bidens lie to being the same magnitude of “some college kid saying “I don’t like Netanyahu””” while equating President Trumps downplay of the events of January 6th to the magnitude of “a rabid fascist declaring that Jews need to die”?
@ coffee addict
I’d like to think so as well but I’m just at loss trying to figure out what’s going on in their minds.
@ coffee addict
As I told @jackk (hope he’s doing ok and תשובה wherever he is) one of the many times he told me that he’s not replying to me anymore- when I respond I’m not responding to the poster per se, I’m responding to the post to point out the hypocrisy for the benefit of those who may be too naive to realize it on their own.
I’ve asked you this before but never got an answer.
Why does it bother you when you claim President Trump lied but I never see you complaining about Biden’s lies?
(For example- no soldiers died while he was president, he lied about the number of grandchildren he has…)
Why are you taking things out of context?
Unfortunately this is a very critical time in our country’s history and what he was saying was that you have to vote him into office so that he can fix the mess left by Biden. Once he gets back into office and makes this country great again you won’t have to vote anymore if you don’t want to.
Until recently I never bothered to vote and I’m yearning for the day when I won’t have to anymore.
Why does his comment about people not having to vote anymore trigger you more than Harris getting the nomination without ordinary citizens being able to vote on it?
Stop focusing on what President Trump says or does- he has a sky high IQ and most people can’t even comprehend his brilliance.
Instead you should focus on the outcome of what he says and does.
He cozied up with Putin and the despot from North Korea- setting aside the utmost respect that he deserves, I thought he was crazy but look back at how well they behaved when he was in power. Now look what happened once President Trump left the White House and a weak, incompetent and inexperienced president came in.
President Trump was tough on Iran and brought them to the verge of bankruptcy, I thought they’d go ballistic and was terrified of what they’d do. But they were afraid to do anything. Unfortunately look what happened when an old senile pervert came into the White House.
I currently feel no threats from Neo- Nazis. If it took President Trump to host one of them for dinner then I’m all for it.
@ Reb Eliezer
Did you vote for Biden? Jill was married to someone else when Biden started living with her.
@ Reb Eliezer
Did you vote for Biden- Jill was married to someone else when Biden started living with her.
Someone who takes millions in bribes that costs the country trillions of dollars is extremely selfish.
If he’s so selfless why did it take him so long to give up the presidential bid?
Reb Eliezer,
I never wrote that not voting for President Trump is against the Torah and you know that. You’re lying to try and discredit me but it’s not going to work and here’s why.
The issue is with your support for the party that encourages relationships that the Torah calls an abomination, encourages the slaughter of unborn babies, practically makes it legal to shoplift up to a certain amount, makes it harder for innocent people to protect themselves, is making policies that enrich our enemies and is made a mockery of the highest court by appointing a judge based on her being a female while not being able to define what a female is. How many of the שבע מצות בני נח did I just mention?
And what’s with the hypocrisy- you won’t vote for President Trump since you consider him selfish, immoral and a liar but you voted for Biden whose selfishness caused caused the country trillions of Dollars, whose immorality knows no bounds (check out the many videos of him online touching and sniffing women inappropriately- and that’s while he knew the cameras were rolling- imagine the stuff he did when there were no cameras around) and is an outright liar (he knew nothing of his sons business, no soldiers died while he was in office, he took the train over a bridge that never had train tracks…).
When was the last time I ever referred to him as anything other than “Reb Eliezer”?
Instead of telling me that I should be ashamed to write something why don’t you explain why I should be ashamed? I also noticed that you didn’t bother to point out where in the Shulchan Aruch it says that an elderly person who knowingly and publicly disgraces Hashem and the Torah still deserves respect- I’m going to guess that it doesn’t say it anywhere. (Let’s set aside any individual person at this time- if the Shulchan Aruch actually says that then I’m wrong and there’s nothing left to discuss.)
When did I ever say every single thing a Republican says is Torah? I believe I mentioned a number of times that I’m not voting for the Republican Party per se, rather I’m voting against the Democratic Party and all that they stand for (I never write that I’m voting Republican because they’re Daas Torah).
In general, in the political discussions I’m part of here, I’m trying to point out to those who ferociously support the Democratic Party based on faults in the Republican Party- that they’re being hypocritical as the faults are much worse in the Democratic Party. But they usually don’t bother to respond.
(E.g. @yechiell mentioned that President Trump lied in the debate and there was some back and forth until he finally provided a case where he lied. I then asked him why that bothered him more than an outright lie from Biden but he didn’t respond.)
I try to be civil with everyone regarding their political beliefs but once they get uncivil I have no problem responding as such. I actually sat next to someone at a Simcha yesterday who said that he won’t be voting for President Trump in November and we had a very civilized discussion about it. I still don’t agree with him but I respect his opinion. I offered you to hit the reset button and discuss our differences civilly but you haven’t taken me up on my offer yet.
Me and my ilk? You’re going to bunch me into a category of people that talk like that because I also plan to vote for President Trump? Since you can’t stand on your own merits you’re going to try and discredit me with false accusations? Again, I try to be respectful when discussing topics with others who don’t necessarily agree with my opinion- until the other person becomes uncivil. I’m human- if I messed up somewhere please point it out and I’ll apologize.
If you want to call me a fool why do it surreptitiously, go right ahead and call me a fool straight out- coming from you I won’t be offended. And I stand up for Talmedei Chachamim- unless doing so would disrespect a Sefer Torah.