Dr. Pepper

@ujm

I don’t have the time in the week before Pesach to hunt down the threads from back then.

I also noticed that some posts have been edited or deleted years later. I’m wondering if it was intentional or a glitch.

@rescue-

As I mentioned before in this thread- if someone is living outside the US and doesn’t want to pay US taxes, they’re more than welcome to renounce their citizenship. Most likely the reason why they don’t is for the benefits that come along with US Citizenship.

Being a citizen of a country is an exposure (i.e. liability / risk) for the country. Look how many US Citizens turned to the consulate recently to help them find a flight out of Eretz Yisroel. A person using the resources of the country while not having paid the required taxes is stealing. There’s no way around that.

@rescue

As with practically anything nowadays, when a system dramatically fails it’s not one, two or even a handful of things that go wrong- it’s a systemic failure coming from many different areas.

The shidduch problems are no different.

I was personally asked to stop commenting here regarding the underlying issues but suffice it to say that most of the “problems” that you and other posters have brought up are merely byproducts of deeper underlying issues that need to be addressed before any changes will be noticed.

Without pointing a finger at any person or group I will say that despite the process being an utter failure- it does work for some people. In order for any changes to have a meaningful effect, everyone needs to be onboard. Those that it works for have no incentive to join.

Also,

I�m in touch with squeak on a regular basis but we don�t talk about the Coffee Room anymore- it hasn�t come up in years.

I don�t even bother asking him to join your game of chess anymore.

At a ???? a few years back, the waiter put a bottle of Dr. Pepper between us and he didn�t even crack a smile.

@ajewfrommonsey

I�m definitely not an expert on the ????? of ???? ??? but I was under the impression that the comment was ???? ??? against an entire community, regardless of whether it�s unique to a particular community or the percentage of the community that behaves like that.

If I�m wrong I�ll stand corrected.

@ajewfrommonsey

My first thought when reading this was how to ?? you ??? ???? for saying ???? ??? on a huge community. What I came up with is that you were upset about something and needed to get it off your chest. You did this without considering how many people from Monsey you may be offending.

This isn�t something unique to Monsey, I saw it happen somewhere else, and the thought going through my mind was the driver was trying to get from Point A to Point B as efficiently as possible and just wasn�t thinking about how they were acting.

Do you think these people would ever cut the line at the supermarket because �their time is more precious than everyone else�s�?

Joseph-

I try to respond to every comment posted in my direction but I don’t like hijacking threads. As this thread seems to have run its course, I don’t feel like I’m driving it off the route.

To be honest- I’m not quite sure what will get me back here. I was mekabel not to post anything political back on Rosh Hashanah of 5785 and I got a personal request to stop posting anything related to shidduchim. I joined a discussion here about tuition but some posters are way too passionate with their opinions (i.e. the ones who write that the only method that is fair to everyone is XYZ and goes on to explain a method that works great for them but would be grossly unfair to me) to have a functional conversation.

This may be a fault of mine but I get very frustrated with posters who purposely add incoherent thoughts (i.e. purposely missing the point) to what could otherwise be a normal conversation (e.g. check out the thread that discussed Social Security).

For a second I thought it would be fun to have a Coffee Room trivia contest (thanks @SACT5) but with AI all over the place I’m not sure how competitive it would be.

It’s been a long time since I first posted here (before there was even a link from the homepage- remember those days?) and lots of things have changed. I enjoyed the original “The Riddle Thread” but the majority of the intellectual thinkers that were there seemed to have moved on as well.

As I’m not officially retiring, if you can come up with a thread that I’ll find intellectually stimulating (and doesn’t get ruined by others) I’m open to joining.

Thanks again for reaching out to me- it’s a good feeling knowing that I’m remembered.

@ujm

It looks like @squeak will not be joining the game of chess this year.

Sorry ?

I was just thinking about this riddle on the 17th anniversary of its posting.

The Riddle Thread….

There�s actually a Wikipedia page about it- look for �The monkey and the coconuts�.

I miss those days.

May 26th 2005

I met squeak for the first time (although it would be another 11 years before I realized that he was squeak).

@Always_Ask_Questions

On the first day of Sukkos you can only be yotze if it belongs to you which is why it won�t help to lend it to someone. You can give it to an adult as a gift and they�ll give it back when they�re done but a child can not give it back.

Where does it say that if you lend something to a child it becomes theirs?

@always_ask_questions

I�m not sure if you want to go down that road. If they�re spending so much time calling references why don�t they just call up the person in question and ask for permission to act as an agent on their behalf? (I think we both know the answer to that.)

Are Shadchanim really allowed to go ahead and do what they think is beneficial to someone (without permission) when practically speaking there�s a much higher chances of causing them harm?

Also, if you act one someone�s behalf without their permission and cause them a loss- are you responsible for making them whole again?

@daas-yochid

I try to respond to every post directed towards me but recently I�ve become suspicious about you. After rereading many of your recent posts (on this thread and others) I�ve been noticing a concerning trend. I sincerely hope that I�m wrong but I�m going to err on the side of caution and stop responding to you.

Out of courtesy though, I will respond to your most recent post.

Am I suggesting that the market would support such a thing?

No, I�m not suggesting that the market would support it and I don�t believe I ever wrote that. What I wrote, and still feel strongly about, is that the market NEEDS it. If not for anything else but to protect the victims of Shadchan abuse.

I�m privileged to be a member of ??? ?????, a nation that takes pride in the strict rules about talking about others. Yet for some reason that all goes out the window when someone turns a magical age and a cruel shadchan gets ahold of their name. In the name of �shidduchim� they�re all of the sudden allowed to call anyone and everyone and ask the most detailed and private questions about their personal lives (even when the target specifically tells them to remove their name and they have zero permission to discuss them). There needs to be some sort of protection for these victims.

�Other than your posts on the CR, I haven�t seen or heard of any demand for certification of shadchanim, so I don�t agree that there�s much of a market for it.�

The entire shidduch system is in shambles, even for the ones that it happens to work for. It�s a combination of many failures and addressing (or even fixing) just one of them won�t resolve the issue but may be a start. If for some reason you think that Shadchanim shouldn�t be brought under control- try explaining that instead of just writing that you haven�t seen or heard of it anywhere else so there�s no market for it.

Are you insinuating that we continue pushing agendas that have been pushed for over a decade (with practically zero positive results) since you�ve seen and heard lots of demand for it?

@daas-yochid

The barrier to entry would work the same way it does for any profession.

To make it into a profession there would have to be:
Some sort of education requirements,
Some experience and guidance (I.e. working under a professional for a year or two),
An examination showing proficiency,
A list of rules that members must follow or face disciplinary actions,
A discipline process for those that do break the rules,
Continuing education requirements to make sure that members stay up to date,
And an oversight board to ensure that everything is being followed and victims have a place to file grievances.

(This list is by far not all inclusive.)

There�s nothing that stops friends and family from suggesting shidduchim just like there�s nothing stopping you from getting friends or family to fix your car when it breaks down. You�re taking a risk though as you may void the warranty if a non-certified mechanic works on your car.

@always_ask_questions

I heard of “sawyouatsinai” but I don’t know much about it, I never heard of “imetyouatsinai” so I can’t comment on either one.

There are some professions that need barriers to entry and some that don’t. Imagine if there were no barriers to become a commercial airline pilot or surgeon- it’s not the same as delivering for Amazon.

With the amount of damage being caused by Shadchanim and the serious state of disrepair of the entire shidduch scene it’s way past the point that there needs to be some serious barriers to entry. If flooding the market with inexperienced Shadchanim would help then maybe there’s something to discuss. Until then- they need to be brought under control (i.e. creating a barrier to entry and creating a discipline process to fine, suspend or ban the ones who violate basic decency).

I’ve mentioned in the past that when I was working in the ACA, I was able to run a query to see what illnesses policyholders suffered from, what medications they were on and when they last filled their medications. If I found someone that hadn’t refilled his medication in three months and contacted his Rov, neighbors and family members to inquire about their financial situation and persuade them to start taking their medications again I would have been canned on the spot and lost my professional credentials. Yet when a Shadchan pulls a stunt like that they’re celebrated as a hero. Their blatant disregard for privacy and strong-arm tactics need to stop but with no barriers to entry there’s no incentive to act appropriately.

As far as the loading resumes is concerned- like I mentioned earlier, as long as everyone who has their resume submitted is a willing participant I can’t imagine why anyone would have an issue with it. (If Shadchanim have an issue it means that you’re onto something good and I wish you the best of luck.) Advertising and getting lots of people on board may be an issue but like every other idea posted in the numerous threads- nothing seems to be getting widespread traction and acceptance by the population at large.

@daas-yochid

You still haven�t shown me where I ever mentioned anything about stam people who dabble in shidduchim. Would you like to try again (or rephrase your original question)?

If you�re only going to quote something that I posted that doesn�t contain the word �stam� then don�t waste your time because I�m not going to reply.

@always_ask_questions

I don�t think your idea will have a meaningful impact but as long as all resumes are loaded in the computer by the individual themself (or with explicit written permission from the individual) then I can�t see why anyone would have an issue.

You�d also have to get some geniuses to figure out how the system will be exploited and mitigate those gaps.

While you�re at it- you may want to add a feature that lets you know if the type of person that you�re looking for is also looking for you. (Just a thought.)

I never heard of imetyouatsinai so I can�t comment. Sorry

Would you be able to comment on what�s wrong with creating a barrier to new entrants?

@always_ask_questions

I�m not complaining ?, I�m just explaining how Social Security works (or was supposed to work) for those who didn�t know. And I�m not relying on it for when I retire.

I just consider it a tax that I�m not receiving any benefit for. A small price to pay to this wonderful country that took in my ancestors with open arms when they had nowhere else to turn.

With that being said- it is a free country and I have the privilege of voting for representatives who I feel will do a better job with the taxes that I pay.

@daas-yochid

Against my better judgement I’ll explain where that came from.

In post #2366867 you wrote that “It�s still not a Ponzi scheme, even if it�s not going to last” but didn’t explain why.

In post #2367605 I gave the parable of a band-aid verses a bandage and asked if you feel the same way about Social Security? Even though it looks like a Ponzi Scheme, functions like a Ponzi Schem and is destined to collapse like a Ponzi Scheme it isn�t a Ponzi Scheme because it�s legal and transparent?

I thought it was a simple question- do you agree that it’s like a Ponzi Scheme (i.e. current payments pay prior liabilities and current liabilities will hopefully be paid by future payments) but technically isn’t one because Social Security is legal?

In post #2367699, instead of answering my question you asked what wasn’t clear. And then in post #2367703 you mentioned some more reasons why it’s technically not a Ponzi Scheme but still didn’t answer my question.

So, in post #2368218 I left a pretty simple multiple-choice question which your response in post #2368385 seemed to imply to me that you weren’t interested in having an intelligent conversation.

@always_ask_questions

Here’s where we disagree:

Social Security does rely on current taxes to make current payments- this is exactly how it follows a Ponzi Scheme. Had the Social Security taxes been put towards an annuity for the tax payer- then current payments wouldn’t be paid out by current taxes, it would be paid out by the payments that were previously made (and hopefully invested responsibly).

(But then early recipients wouldn’t have been able to collect hundreds of times the amount they put in.)

I’m saving towards retirement with the expectation of not getting anything from Social Security, if I do end up getting something it’ll be a bonus. I don’t like that they keep raising the wage base so much every year. (But as a friend pointed out- it doesn’t make a difference because we’re not going to get what we’re owed anyway.)

It doesn’t really make much of a difference now what the life expectancy is- check what it was back when Social Security was enacted and see how many more year�s early recipients received payments than was originally expected.

You asked how are we sure that the next generation will respect us and pay taxes to support us? If I was given a choice to forgo any payments from Social Security and in turn my kids won’t have to pay into the system, I’d do it in a second.

As with any huge issue out there, there’s usually way more than just one factor causing the issue and fixing one factor may help but won’t resolve the issue.

Here’s a good one to start with though- How about making Shadchanus into a profession?

Hashem created everyone and created someone meant to be their zivug- if they’re not introduced to each other (or possibly under the wrong circumstances) there’s a good chance they won’t end up marrying.

There are certain characteristics that define a profession (here’s a partial list):
The professional undergoes training,
There’s continuing education,
There’s certification,
There’s ethical standards that need to be followed,
There’s oversight and
There’s a discipline process.

Would you trust someone who’s a doctor solely because they “dabble” in healthcare?
Would you trust someone who’s a mechanic solely because he “dabbles” in auto repairs?

So why would you trust someone who’s a shadchan solely because they “dabble” in shidduchim?

Furthermore- without oversight and the thought of being banned, fined or face any disciplinary action- what encourages them to act in good faith?

@daas-yochid

I try to respond to everyone who comments on what I write. To make it easier for me would you be able to explain why Social Security is not a Ponzi Scheme?

If someone is wearing a CVS branded bandage they�re technically not wearing a Band-aid. So, even though it looks like a Band-aid, feels like a Band-aid and works like a Band-aid, it�s still not a Band-aid.

Do you feel the same way about Social Security? Even though it looks like a Ponzi Scheme, functions like a Ponzi Schem and is destined to collapse like a Ponzi Scheme it isn�t a Ponzi Scheme because it�s legal and transparent?

@daas-yochid

Government mandated or not- if the funds coming in are not enough to payout the funds due the entire system will collapse.

The shortfall is projected to be in the trillions of Dollars. Where is the government going to get this money from?

@always_ask_questions

You asked who mentioned Ponzi scheme?

If A = B and C = B, would you say that C = A?

Now-

Let A = Ponzi Scheme,

Let B = A fund that people contribute money towards and instead of the money being invested it�s used to payout people who contributed money earlier on, and

Let C = Social Security.

Do you agree now that Social Security is a Ponzi Scheme?

If you want to be technical you could say that mathematically it�s a Ponzi Scheme but legally it�s not because (1) a Ponzi Scheme is illegal and Social Security is legal and (2) a Ponzi Scheme isn�t transparent where the money goes but Social Security is transparent for who ever cares to read up about it. But you get the point.

@always_ask_questions

Social Security didn’t have to be a Ponzi Scheme but it’s too late- that’s how it was set up and there’s nothing that can be done about it now.

See the case of Ida May Fuller- the first Social Security recipient- she barely paid into Social Security and collected it for over 35 years- receiving close to 1,000 times what she contributed. I highly doubt that I’m even going to get back even close to what I (and my employers) contributed. The funds that she collected were paid into Social Security by the next generation and their checks are being covered by our parents and us.

I spoke with a retirement actuary at length about Social Security and why it was purposely designed as a Ponzi Scheme and not as an annuity- like your typical insurance company would do it.

With a typical 401(K) a person sets aside funds (and at times their employer matches it to some extent) and at retirement they can either live off the lump sum or purchase an annuity and ensure that they don’t outlive their money. Of course the government is extremely on top of the employers issuing matches, the banks holding the 401(K)s and the insurance companies selling the annuities.

The amounts held in the portfolios of some of these banks and insurance companies is staggering.

The designers of Social Security were concerned with the government having access to retirement accounts- worth potentially in the trillions- and no oversight, so they designed Social Security in a way where there isn’t tons of money sitting around but payments come in from the current generation to pay the previous generation, i.e. a massive Ponzi Scheme. While Social Security does have lots of money at the moment- it’s nothing compared to the trillions they’d be sitting on otherwise.

As with any Ponzi Scheme, it’s going to fail sooner or later. From what I understand, the designers of Social Security anticipated that for each retiree there would be 16 people working and making Social Security payments. With people living longer, having less kids and with so many people choosing not to work- the ultimate demise is bound to happen sooner rather than later. But- it was going to happen eventually anyway.