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A Torch or a Lantern? Opera mini? Seriously, people should come up with some normal names nowadays.
Shlishi, here I agree with you 100%. The truth can sometimes be very harmful to long-term relationships. If you find yourself speaking truth to your spouse too often, I think you should see a Rov or a marriage counselor. (“You” as a general term, not talking about anyone specific.) You see, truth leads to disagreements, disagreements ruin friendships. Lies lead to mutual accomodation, tolerance, and acceptance, albeit inadvertent, considering that you don’t know that you are tolerating the bad behavior because the bad behavior, in your eyes, dosen’t exist!
Gut Shabbos to all, Professor of Relationships Dovid
Shoes? (Were you being serious?) If not, then I say :
Red cowboy hat, green shirt, purple pants, orange/black striped tie, fake mustache, golden shoes, yellow socks, gray gloves.
Who agrees with me?
Power corrupts. When you have control, other people seem to be smaller to them, and as such they think themselves “higher”.
I can bring a bunch of sources about lying and put them into English and a child-friendly format. Would that help?
USED to be from Florida. Now am in Israel. Can I post?
Yee-haw!
Shkoyech on the sub! Thanks!
Thanks all mods! And give me a subtitle!
Health, we hate nobody. You are the hater. How many insults have been said? Stop the aggresiveness, this shows that you can’t win a fair argument so you resort to name-calling. Childish. Any responses to my list?
Gedolim who supported the Medina and Zionism
1) Ramban Shir Hashirim 8:12. 2) Radak Tehillim 146:3. 3) Seder Hayom by Rabeinu Moshe ben Machir. 4) Or HaChayim Vayikra 25:25 Bamidbar 24:17. 5) HaGra Kol HaTor 1:3. 6) Rabbi Chaim Palagi Artzos HaChayim 9:9, 10:44. 7) Rabbi Avraham of Trisk Magen Avraham al HaTorah Vaera 4. 8) Rabbi Yisrael Yehoshua Trunk Yeshuos Malco Yoreh Deah 66. 9) Rabbi Eliyahu Gutmacher Shivas Tzion Vol. 2: pg. 40, Nefesh Chaya Orach Chayim 1. 10) Rabbi Yehuda Alkalai Raglei Mevaser pg. 620. 11) Chafetz Chayim Kitzur Toldos HaChafetz Chayim pgs. 43,69,75, Shem Olam Perek 14. 12) Meshech Chochma in a letter to “Keren HaYesod”. 13) Netziv Shivas Tzion Vol. 2: pg. 18. 14) Malbim Shivas Tzion Vol. 2: pg. 3. 15) HaRav Kook. 16) Rabbi Avraham Dov Shapira Igros HaRaayah 3:316-317. 17) Rabbi Aba Yaakov HaKohen Burachov Shivas Tzion pg. 97. 18) Rabbi Ben Tzion Chai Uziel Michmnei Uziel Vol. 2: pg. 321. 19) Rabbi Ovadyah Hadayah in the Intro. to Shut Yaskil Avdi Vol. 6. 20) Rabbi Yitzchak Nisim Yad HaRav Nisim. 21) Rabbi Mordechai Atiyah Machseh VeOz pgs. 16,17,19,20,21,38,41,43,46. 22) Rabbi Amram Aburbyah Nesivei Am Drashos pgs. 70,103,153,220,236,239. 23) Rabbi Moshe Kalfon HaKohen Torah VeChayim pg. 106. 24) Rabbi Chayim Churi Chayei Chayim pg. 240. 25) Rabbi Rachamim Chai Chavaytah HaKohen Minchas Kohen pg. 10, Keser Kehunah pgs. 36,125. 26) Rabbi Refael Kadir Tzavan Intro. to Zerah Yaakov. 27) Rabbi Shlomo Mazuz. 28) Rabbi David Sakli Lech David Vayechi pg. 24. 29) Rabbi Moshe Malkah Nitfei HaMayim pgs. 114,117,121. 30) Rabbi Yitzchak Abichatzeira “Rabbeinu Yitzchak Abichatzeira” pg. 367. 31) Rabbi Yechiya Yitzchak in Ish Yemini. 32) Rabbi Yitzchak Hertzog. 33) Rabbi Tzvi Pesach Frank Intro. to Har Tzvi, HaTzvi Yisrael pgs. 327, 329. 34) Rabbi Isser Zalman Meltzer Kovetz Kerem Tzion, Shaar Reuven pg. 245. 35) Rabbi Reuven Katz Shaar Reuven pgs. 49, 305, 323. 36) Rabbi Yechiel Yaakov Weinberg Kisvei HaGaon Rabbi Yechiel Yaakov Weinberg Vol. 2: pgs. 307, 330, 361. 37) Rabbi Yaakov Moshe Charlap Maayanei HaYeshuah pg. 307. 38) Rabbi Meshulam Roth Intro. to Kol Mevaser. Kol Mevaser 21:1,3,7.39) Rabbi Yaakov Friedman, Admor of Husyatin Ohalei Yaakov pgs. 56,91,100,239,255,274,342,244. 40) Rabbi Shlomo Chayim Admor of Sadigura Devarim BeItam pgs. 32,54, 57,202. 41) Admor of Modzhits Tiferes Yisrael Otzr HaTorah VeHaNeginah pg. 19. 42) Rabbi Reuven Margolius Zakuf HaKomah pg. 118. 43) Rabbi Eliezer Waldenburg Baal haTzitz Eliezer 44) Rabbi Yosef Shalom Elyashiv 45) Rabbi Avraham Shapiro 46) HaChidah 47) Rabbi
Yosef Kahaneman of Ponevezh 48) Rabbi David HaKohen 49) Rabbi Eliyahu Pardes 50) Rabbi Isser Yehuda Unterman 51) Rabbi Soloveitchik 52) Rabbi Shlomo Zalman Auerbach 53) Rabbi Chaim Tzimmerman 54) Rabbi Yitzchak Shulzinger 55) Rabbi Yitzchak Schiber 56) Rabbi Menachem Mendel Kasher 57) Rabbi Shaul Israeli 58) Rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu 59) Rabbi Ovadyah Yosef 60) Rabbi Shlomo Goren 61) Rabbi Tzvi Yehuda Kook 62) Rabbi Shlomo Yosef Zavin
So, it is not all Gedolim who didn’t support the Medina.
—-Dovid
Health, stop the personal insults. True that there are some Kofrim in the Medina, but you cannot say it dosen’t accomodate Yidden.
Of course HaKadosh Boruch Hu gave us control! Heard about those nisim he did for our “maase satan”
Pacman- I am waiting for Moshiach, but I am being mekayem mitzvas Yishuv Haaretz.
HaKatan- All those things you said are problems. BUT it was made possible by people like Dorit Beinish, Ehud Barak, etc. (wanna-be Goyim, mostly assimilated European Jews). The government is mostly pro-yishuv haaretz, and everyone hates those people. Believe me when I say that the so-called “Supreme Court” is going to be dissolved soon. Barak is embroiled in scandals and rushing to expel Jews before he goes the same way Olmert did.
All Gedolim? Not really.
You are so negative…is America so great? Tell me, is Obama a kofer? Israel is better than America, Reform/Conservative are assimilating and in the meantime synagogues are firebombed.
HaKatan, there is something called Jihad, it started in the 1800’s and the Marines had to go to Libya to put it down (“shores of tripoli” in marine corps. song refers to that). It was only a matter of time before they would attack Jews in Israel as well, as part of cleansing infidels. Why this defeatist mentality? We won, now let’s thank Hashem. Instead we call it a disaster. Ungrateful…
MODS, gimme a subtitle. Others, what do you think my subtitle should be? Mods, give me the bets idea that people give as a subtitle.
Mod, it’s 10:51! Later this evening?! Consideration for Israelis, please? Anyways, I’m checking it out tomorrow morning. How many people were there? Must’ve been nice…
Chacham, well said. I didn’t check out all of Natruna’s sources. I realize that they are a bit…biased. ??? ???
Well, HaKadosh Boruch Hu does everything for Am Yisrael. Even the Shoah was, in an indirect way, needed (Why, don’t ask, I am not HaKadosh Boruch Hu, but I believe in Gam Zu LTovah). But I think that, considering that the Medina is very successful and helping Lomdei Torah, funding Kollels, batei knesses, and Aliya (no limit on immigration, free flight {Nefesh B’Nefesh}). Comparing it to the Shoah is, in my opinion, ridiculous.
Good night to all, Dovid
I prefer with a siddur.
Shlishi, you got the list from Natruna?
Shlishi, point taken. My sources are coming tomorrow.
Health, I am sure we do not. As I said, I will give you 20/30 Gedolim who supported Zionism.
(You don’t count Sfaradi/Teimani/Mizrachi Gedolim? I cn give you 15 that supported. In those circles, there was unequivocal support for Zionism)
BTW> Please answer my last point, meaning why you complain that the Zionists were “maneuvering” when they had tremendous Siyata Dishamaya. That dosen’t show you that Hashem supports a medina?
Pba, listen to Health! After all, your sister is a nurse, your brother Hatzalah, but Health is HEALTH!
The english protected Jews? Please… heard about what happened on Ben Yehuda Street (Brits killed 51 Yidden)? Heard about how they were taking arms away from Jews so they couldn’t defend themselves? They were the ones who were vetoing a cease-fire when the Arab Legion was winning (U.S. was pushing for a cease-fire, UK vetoed because they favored Arabs, gave them arms, etc.) Yeah right, they were protecting Jews.
Shlishi/Health, sources please? I can bring you 20+ Gedolim who suppotred creation of the Medina (Not including HaRav Kook z”l). Bring sources please.
No Kedusha and still a lot of Kedusha are two very different things. My point is that you said “This probably doesn’t apply nowadays because we hold that Yerushalyim doesn’t have Kedusha nowadays. See Chasam Sofer.” Please clarify next time in order not to mislead.
Why is it you are so afraid of Arabs? HaKadosh Boruch Hu helped us in all our wars with them, even against overwhelming odds. That shows that this ‘maase satan’ got great Siyata Dishmaya. Why is it you shove back at Hashem that what he has given us? The questio: “Is it good to proclaim a Medina?” was valid then, when the Arabs went to war and it looked like a massacre of Jews would happen. But now that Hashem answered us, I think the answer is clear.
The Medina isn’t perfect, but it IS Atchalta DeGeulah, no doubt in my mind. Sources will be brought tomorrow.
BTW> Please post the entire source, not none/only part. If you post only part of a source, it is misleading. (i.e. posting that Chasam Sofer said Yerushalayim had no Kedusha)
I’m in Shiloh!
Not to mention that a great amount of Rabbonim, both Ashkenazim and Sfaradim, thought that the creation of Israel is Atchalta deGeulah.
Ah, might be. Thanks for the correction.
OdAmiChay- agreed.
Health and shlishi- Please, now you are saying what the Arabs are saying, meaning that we “deserved” to be attacked by six Arab countries all because the UN gave us a medina. Read the book HaTekufa HaGedola by HaRav Menachem Mendel Kasher, it might help you get a broader picture of this issue. Saying Yerushalayim has no Kedusha anymore is not correct. Halachically, the Chasam Sofer holds there is no Kedusha (it is a machlokes, see Rambam Hil. Beis HaBechira 6:14-16, the Chasam Sofer is ALSO sover that the Raavad {who disagrees with the aforementioned Rambam} agrees on the inherent Kedusha of Yerushalayim, the machlokes is the halachic Kedusha) , but he said that it is still Kodesh, albeit in a non-halachic manner, because it is the Shaar to Shamayim. In Yoreh Deah 234, he said that the Halachic Kedusha is gone, but still there is a mitzvah to live there because there is still an inherent Kedusha in Yerushalayim that is bigger than other places, and that the inherent Kedusha is unchangable. See Tashbetz 3:201, Yechaveh Daas…
Regards, Dovid
How is it constitutional? Freedom of religion? I want to see Americans banning minarets… Yeah right. The goyim (and mosrim) have the idea that Jews are weak, and so can be oppressed. We need to get together and help repeal this gezeirah, or move to Israel.
Interesting…I’m looking into this today. I’ll get back to you with an answer B’ezras Hashem in the evening
Tikkun- We are talking about big bottles, of course nobody expects you to use cups with a can of coke!
Yeshivabochur- Man, you ARE picky… I can understand how one can find the act of drinking water from the bottle distasteful, but breaking up a relationship because of it? Ouch…
ZeesKite: Translate “????”. Yep
Gefen no offense taken, and you misuderstood me. I meant it this way:
( )= words that should be read together
You (don’t create threads) {i.e. you do the act of not creating threads, like ZeesKite said} by (not creating threads)! Understood? It can be understood in two ways. 🙂
Girls generally gossip more than boys, especially about these kind of “girlish” matters, so yes, I AGAIN find myself agreeing with Joseph/PacMan/HaLeivi
Pac-Man, your advice is correct, but yet not everyone is patient enough just to walk away with the missionary at his heels pestering him. Missionaries are annoyingly persistent. I have before taken out my cell-phone and made a fake “conversation” with thin air to avoid a missionary when leaving was impossible (At the bus-stop, I didn’t want to miss the bus)
Girls drinking beer is also boorish, you wouldn’t say? So it is to the same effect. I personally think drinking out of a bottle is not refined and boorish.
You don’t create threads by not creating threads! (If you don’t create threads, others won’t complain in new threads that you make too many threads, you get my logic? {If I have any, which is doubtful} )
Fayyad is a murderer…Fatah are terrorists. You support them? Remember what happened in Gush Katif? Shuls burnt down, police barbarism and brutality, greenhouses that were left for so-called “Palestinians” destroyed because Jews made them. Rockets all over, entire cities affected by trauma. You want more than that, and you wish that despicable Fayyad a refuah sheleima? Interesting…
Wolf, judge us favorably… and stop portraying yourself as a tzaddik you shvitzer!
*this is a joke, for those with no sense of humor*
Gavra, I wouldn’t do that unless I had a death-wish, and a bad one at that… Israelis are tolerant of Arabs (unfortunately), it dosen’t work the other way ’round.
Pac-Man agreed. This should be completely stopped, Protektzia is a goyish corrupt idea. Unfortunately, it has permeated lots of Jewish institutions nowadays, and should be gotten rid of.
Hey. I am personally friends with a number of people who stutter. It’s the neshama that matters, not outside appearances/habits, at least in my view (Remember that Moshe Rabeinu had problems with speech as well, that didn’t stop him from being the biggest Navi ever). Whether to say or not to beforehand… I’d say it depends on how you think it would affect your date. Good luck!
Bhatzlacha, Dovid
Just don’t respond. Al Taan LeKsil KeIvalto. No point trying to steer clear of every hot-headed individual in this world. You will spend most of your time running away. I generally don’t post quotes of goyim, especially of vulgar comedians, but I feel I must to illustrate my point. Apologies 🙂
‘Just think how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are even stupider!’ –George Carlin
I’m already in E”Y, B”H, so I can’t come 😛 . For all who do come, thank you for having a realistic outlook about things and not just blindly dismissing everything. Yehi Ratzon that you are going to make Aliya, and if you do, to a better Medina than there is at the moment.
For those who criticize the Medina, I agree it is NOT perfect in every, or even MOST of the ways. As a settler, I have witnessed first-hand the injustices against religious Yidden and against patriots by the police who follow the Medina’s campaign of self-destruction and appeasement to Obama and the “UN” Yimach Shmam. But I still live here, and happily! PBA: this ‘maase satan’ is a product of your imagination. Read the sefer Hatkufa Hagedolah by HaRav Kasher zt”l. An eye-opening work, I say. You will see the list of rabbonim who supported the Medina, and the reasons why. There is another sefer that has a long list of Rabbonim and quotes on their support (I don’t remember the name, I’ll check today in the Beis Medrash and post it later). But believe me, their support did not depend on whether it is to their liking at first or not (Well, at least most of them…). It was the IDEA of a medina they supported. I know that some of the aforementioned Rabbonim got disillusioned with the idea because it didn’t fit the image of a religious state, but that is NOT a majority. We waited 2,000 years for our own Medina, and just because in the first 63 years of independence it dosen’t fit our dreams dosen’t mean we should follow NK and go kiss and make up with Sonei Yisrael like Ahmadinejad Yimach Shmo. We waited 2,000 years for an opportunity for this, we can wait a little bit more to see the product before dismissing it as ‘maase satan’. As the Israelis say: ‘??? ???’.
????? ??? ??? ?????, ???