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Derech HaMelechMember
g_a_w, MR: It is not always possible to give your wife from your own becher/challah. I was advised that if I thought my parents/in laws would perceive a slight that I should cut my wife’s piece and then cut another to give to that parent and then give my wife the first piece that I had cut for her.
oomis: there is no such things as a blanket statement, every case is different and there will always be the exceptions to the rule.
Out of curiosity. Is Shalom Bayis a din d’oraysa or is it just an emtzaus that is necesary for the mitzvos of kidushin and pru u’rivu? Before you start hocking me with “v’seemach es ishto”, the chinuch only counts that mitzvah as referring to the fact that a man shouldn’t leave his house for the first year of marriage- but he brings at the end that for a dvar mitzvah (I assume such as kibud av) it is not considered being mevatel this mitzvah and he adds that some say it is even mutar lechatchilah.
Derech HaMelechMemberThe Gelato Shoppe on Glades Rd.
They have a few CY flavors and a whole pareve selection. Its REALLY good. The lady their told us that men always like the fruity flavors and women always like the rich flavors like chocolate (which happened to be true for us as well)
I think there’s a children’s science museum somewhere too.
An iceskating rink in Pompano beach.
Derech HaMelechMembershtickyguy:
I think the Vilna Gaon learns limud Torah lismha to mean lishem haTorah, ie for yidiyos haTorah.
The gemarah in kidushin, pirkei avos and if I remember correctly the lishem yichud of the yesod v’shorech ha’avodah suggests that ones kavanah to learn should be for the sake of knowing what to do.
real-brisker
it would only be more like reading depending on your fluency in hebrew/english. I have difficulty believing that time spent trying to teitch a modern hebrew word would be counted as limud Torah and not limud lashon or something.
Also, what is Mesivta? Is it like a Dvar Yakov type of sefer or just competition for Artscroll?
Derech HaMelechMemberI don’t understand why some of the women keep calling tichels shmattahs. My wife has some very nice looking tichels and the sephardim and chard”al have some very extravagant looking ones.
Derech HaMelechMemberI don’t think it makes a difference. I think the reason why it is frowned upon in many Yeshivahs is because like many translations some of the meaning becomes lost and people may rely on it too much and never learn how to learn on their own. So maybe its better to learn inside. Obviously for balabatim who wouldn’t be able to learn without it at all, it is a big boon.
Horaving over a tosfos for an hour trying to get pshat will get a person more schar than that same person running through all the agadita in HaRo’eh in Berachos with an Artscroll in the same time. The more you sweat the more schar you get. Adam ki yamus ba’ohel.
Derech HaMelechMemberI’ve recently heard of some choshuvah people who specifically don’t say it.
I always used to think that it was because Moshe lived until 120 and something like people can’t live past that. But one day it hit me that there were a number of people after Moshe who lived over 120 years.
Minhag Yisroel Torah, so I wonder what the mekor is.
Derech HaMelechMemberoomis-
I’m so confused.
You and your husband eat yeshivah bochurim for brunch on Friday mornings?
That does not compute with my understanding of preparing for shabbos.
Derech HaMelechMemberThese are plagues throughout the Yeshivah world that is part and parcel with the ‘on-the-fringe’ children that we have been hearing about.
I am not exaggerating when one Shabbos I saw a group of Israeli bochurim – each and every one of them was wearing his jacket on his shoulders, holding his hat in his right hand down, chup from here to yehupitz- sauntering by. There must have been about 5 of them identical to the T. It’s a shud, because its not like these bochurim have no shaychis to Torah, they probbaly have a few mesechtos each under their belts.
Derech HaMelechMemberwaiting for replies?
Derech HaMelechMemberI think the Steipler didn’t have smicha. As I’ve heard that he would send halachic questions elsewhere. I’m sure there were others. I think there’s a difference between the title “Rav” and “Rabbi”. I don’t have so many qualms with calling a 30 yr old, YU graduate, pulpit position holding, person- “Rabbi”. But my Rosh Kollel’s (who doesn’t have smicha) first name is “Rav” as far as I’m concerned.
Also in the kollelim I’ve been to the yungeleit get the title “Reb” not “Rabbi” when they get married.
December 20, 2010 9:11 pm at 9:11 pm in reply to: Bedbugs – what are you doing to discourage them? #719010Derech HaMelechMemberI would tell them that with all the talk about bedbugs, they’ve not actually done anything productive with themselves. People aren’t impressed with bedbugs and very very few people would even consider spending any sort of quality time with them. You know, nothing to get too depressed about but enough to seriously discourage them.
I might also mention how there’s an industry specific to killing them but I’d worry it might be too fatalistic.
Derech HaMelechMemberAccording to Daniel Boyarin, the underlying distinction between religion and ethnicity is foreign to Judaism itself… Consequently, in his view, Judaism does not fit easily into conventional Western categories, such as religion, ethnicity, or culture. Boyarin suggests that this in part reflects the fact that much of Judaism’s 4,000-year history predates the rise of Western culture and occurred outside the West…
-Wikipeida ‘Judaism’
December 17, 2010 7:11 am at 7:11 am in reply to: Tips for getting ready for Shabbos (especially when fridays are short!) #718579Derech HaMelechMemberThere are no tips that will ever work. From my own personal experience no matter what time Shabbos starts I will always be running aproximately 15 minutes late. A friend told me that he was in England or Russia or one of those weird countries and Shabbos came in at around 10pm and people were STILL rushing around trying to be ready on time.
Your only choice is to be mekabel on yourself to make Shabbos at Chatzos this way you’ll be ready by 12:15. I think there’s some program for that.
Otherwise just give up. I think I can confidently say that at this point its minhag Yisroel. It makes me feel better anyway.
Derech HaMelechMemberIf you say all 613 mitzvos before you eat your food its a segulah for cold food.
There’s a story behind that but I don’t remember it.
Also there’s a sefer called Minhag Yisroel Torah that brings tons of minhagim (its a set of four as opposed Ta’amei HaMinhagim which is only one) and discusses their sources. An interesting one that I rememebr for it is that he writes that the mekor for the ‘seichel’ part of seichel and gelt (by havdallah) is the SA (washing eyes for chavivus hamitzvah) but he couldn’t find any moekor anywhere for the gelt part and even gedolim who he saw doing it and asked said that they only did it because its a minhag even though they didn’t know the reason for it.
Derech HaMelechMembercash is always good
Derech HaMelechMemberMoshe Rabeinu came down from Har Sinai after 40 days.
We came out of the midbar after 40 years.
We come out of a mikvah of 40 se’ah.
The gender of a fetus is set after 40 days.
I would philosophically suggest that 40 days represents the time it takes to become something new. ie.
After a 40 days ‘pregnancy’ we became the Jewish people.
After a 40 year ‘preganacy’ we reached a level as a whole to be zocheh to enter E”Y.
The entire concept of mikvah is based on pregnancy and rebirth.
A fetus becomes a he or a she after 40 days.
I’m sure it is much deeper but I’d imagine its something along these lines.
Derech HaMelechMemberThe case of Dama ben Nesina is not in contradiction to what R’ Ahron said. He didn’t say that Licoln really was a liar but that despite the fact that he was so honest we need to remember that “a goy is a goy”. Dama ben Nesina may have excelled in kibud av, but that doesn’t give him a chezkas kashrus. What does the gemara say about how well he performed any of the sheva mitzvos? Nothing. he may have been the biggest ganav for all we know- except in the case of where it conflcited with kibud av. And since I don’t have to be dan him l’caf zchus, there is no problem saying that. Unlike the jew who pases the doorman and doesn’t say hello or thank you that we DO have to be dan l’kaf zchus.
Derech HaMelechMemberHOmeowner
yes, a Jewish child molester is higher than Mother Theresa. The Jew might have to go deep deep into gehenom bu that is between him and Hashem. Between him and us we have to try to be makarev a jew that has fallen so far and try to help him do teshuvah the same like any other jew. Even if he spends 70000 years in the 7th level of gehenom at the end he will get his Olam HaBah and it will be far above anything mother Theresa will see.
Everybody has areas in their Middos that they find more difficult than others. Being a ben Melech is mechayev a person to be arrogant mitzad atzmo. The fact that we are ALSO requiried to be anavim doesn’t detract that from. Some people are natural anavim and have trouble working on the pride they must feel as a Ben melech and some people are naturally arrogant and have trouble working on the anavah they need to feel from tikun haMidos.
Derech HaMelechMembertzippi
I’m not sure what you mean by “I always thought huh was the definitive answer: why not exercise our muscles, at the very least.”
I’m assuming you don’t mean that we are free to maintain shitos in contradiction to the gedolim. but then i’m not sure what you do mean.
re: Avos 3:14 chaviv adam shenivra btzelem…
you skipped out 2/3 of the mishnah:
chavivin yisrael shenikri’u banim l’makom…
chavivin yisrael shenitan lahem kli chemdah…
clearly the mishnah is differentiating between jews and goyim and putting us on a higher level. and if that doesn’t convince you, ask your husband or father summarize sha’ar alef in nefesh hachaim or yesod vshoresh ha’avodah and see how they go on and on about the chochos that we jews have in this world beyond any other being that even the rishonim argue whether malachim are greater than us or not.
Certainly we should all strive to be kind to all goyim both because of yashrus and to not be mechalel shem shamayim, but we can easily understand how someone who goes around knowing that he is a ben Melech higher than even the malachey shamayim can have trouble in this area.
Derech HaMelechMembermdd
“”A Goy is a Goy”. Ye, especially those who risked their and their families’ lives to save Jews during the Holocaust. It is critical not to misunderstand divrei Chazal and the Gedolim!! It is just mind-bogling and outrageous!”
Are you suggesting that Rav Ahron was wrong or that since Rav Ahron’s statement is not in concurrence with your beliefs he must have meant something else altogether?
Chasidei umos ha’olam are the yotzei min haklal and even the biggest of them cannot equal the lowest yid. This doesn’t mean we need to look down on them but its impossible to look at them as we would another jew.
Derech HaMelechMemberAlong the lines of what Mod-80 said. I heard from the mouth of a grandson of R’ Ahron Kotler the following:
For whatever personal reasons some of the grandchildren of Rav ahron were living by him as children. At one point this grandson had to do a book report and did it on Abraham Lincoln. R’ Ahron walked into the room while he was reading his book and noticing that it wasn’t a sefer asked his grandson what he was reading. The grandson answered that he had a book report to do and he was doing it on Abraham Lincoln. “Who is this?”. A president, he was very honest, they call him Honest Abe etc. Rav Ahron says back “A goy is a goy is a goy”.
The moral of the story is, just because we are mechuyav for darkei shalom to be amicable to goyim does not mean we should start allowing them to sign our kesubos – and there is a reason why we don’t let them do that.
Derech HaMelechMembermdd:
There are two different types of evolution: Microevolution and Macroevolution.
Microevolution is the evolution of small traits WITHIN a given species, such as mentioned by charliehall (hemoglobin production in Tibetan monks). This is an observable phenomenon and is also documented in the Gemorah in Shabbos 31a.
Macroevolution is the evolution of one species into an entirely different species. This has never been observed.
I think though, that the Torah makes it pretty clear that (macro)evolution is not a compatible belief with Torah. Bereishis 1:27 uses “bri’ah” which is creation from something not formerly there as opposed to “ye’tzirah”, which is formation of something from something else. (Such as in the famous “yotzer or u’varah choshech” because light was formed from Hashem’s light while darkness which is antithetical to Hashem had to be comepletly created.) So too, if we evolved from apes it seems to me that “yetzirah” would have been a better option.
As opposed to this the pasuk in Bereishis 2:7 does use the word ‘ytzirah” when it speak about how Hashem formed man from dust.
Also many of us are familair with the Midrash (Rashi brings them in perek beis) that speaks about how hashem took dust from the four corners of the world and dirt from under the mizbe’ach when He created man. If man is just an evolutionary step on the ladder of primates this would mean that this Midrash applies to monkeys too.
I think that it is more likely that Hashem uses similar templates for certain creatures according to their needs. Because this would require belief in Hashem science chose to believe that these templates are the result of evolution.
Derech HaMelechMemberI just wanted to add for those that might not know. When we first got married my wife thought she would just make a big batch of dough when she would have time, cut it up and freeze it for multiple Shabbosim. Sine it was just the two of us, we didn’t really need that much challah at all. We called the mechaber of the sefer “Guidlines” to find out if this was OK.
It turns out that you can only make a bracha on hafrashas challah if you are BAKING the shiur that you need for the bracha. Speak to your LOR or p_b_a for more info.
Derech HaMelechMemberRashi needs elucidation.
In pasuk chof Rashi says that Rivkah was “????? ?????” at age 3. The Sifsei Chachomim says that she wasn’t “????? ??????” yet- so she was only “????? ?????”. But in chof-vav Rashi says that Yitzchok waited 10 years until she was 13 to decide that Rivkah was an akara, like Avraham did with Sarah.
The difference is that Sarah was already a gedolah before the 10 year count started. If she gave birth to Yitzchok at 90 and Yishmael was 13 years older than him Sarah was about 77 when hagar conceived which would have been at the end of the 10th year when Sarah gave Hagar to Avraham. If this is true then Sarah started counting at 67.
Rashi himself even says “?? ?????? ?? ??? ???? ??? ?????? ??????” – “until she became 13 and was able to become pregnant”. Meaning before this time she wasn’t able to become pregnant. So what was the 10 years that Yitzchok waited for if during those 10 years Rivkah wasn’t “????? ??????”?
I vaguely remember hearing that Yitzchok waited to consummate the marriage until Rivkah was 12 or something, which would explain some of this but I’m not 100% sure where I heard it from. Or if I even really did.
Besides this, didn’t one of the shoftim or someone have his first child at the age of seven?
Derech HaMelechMember“Derech HaMelech, What in the world do you mean by, ” Halachic research is not for the hamonei am, it is for halachic authorities.?” Should I stop going to shiurim? We learn Torah so we can better understand how to follow HaShem’s commandments and that means learning as much halachah and hashkafah as we possibly can!”
charliehall:
“…made a pretty convincing case for having found the source of the techelet. But despite the fact that I think he is correct, I do not wear techelet. I talked with my Rav…”
That is exactly what I mean.
Someone earlier suggested that by doing halachic research a person can decide for himself what minhagim or halachos to abide by. My opinion is that researching the halacha for the purpose of changing a minhag is best left to Rabbinical authorities and should be “talked [over] with [a] ..Rav”
Derech HaMelechMemberIn addition to what Mod-80 said, I’d like to quote Rav Gamliel Rabinowitz- “It says ‘asei lcha Rav’ not ‘asei lcha sefer'”. Halachic research is not for the hamonei am, it is for halachic authorities. For the rest of us we need to “look around and see who else is doing it. If most of the Rabbonim and Bnei Torah are, it’s likely a good idea.” to quote a wise saying.
Derech HaMelechMemberMy Rosh Yeshivah used to make any members of the yeshivah who didn’t have their hat and jacket for whatever reason- daven in the ezras nashim.
We can easily reconcile what Rav Chaim said with common practice among many rabbanim.
The rabbanim of a shul have to weigh that:
1. If they send this person home- he may not daven at all.
2. If the person doesn’t wear a hat and jacket in general it may distance him even further from yiddishkeit by demanding something of him that he doesn’t want to relate to.
3. If the person is not a mekabel then it will just cause an argument with no real gains.
Also, if the rav doesn’t stop every single time someone starts talking in the back of the shul this would follow along the same lines, ie. he just doesn’t stop people from doing the wrong thing all the time.
Also, would the rav of that shul kick out someone who came to shul without tzitzis on? This is also no different- the rav is happy that a person at least comes to shul.
Derech HaMelechMemberoomis:
Rav Chaim Kanievsky is not a posek- he doesn’t give psak halacha. He is just saying what a person should do. Not everything that we do is directly related to halacha- but everything we do is directly related to the words of our gedolim.
Derech HaMelechMemberWhoever wrote about Rav Chaim Kanievsky saying that it is better to wear a hat and jacket and daven b’yichidus over davening with a minyan without a hat and jacket- I just looked it up in the shu”t Sh’eilos Rav (p. 194).
Question:
Which is preferable- to daven with a minyan without a hat and jacket (beged elyon) or b’yichidus with them?
Answer:
B’yachid.
Question:
Is it enough to wear a tallis (gadol) over the shirt without a jacket (beged elyon) during davening?
Answer:
L’chatchila it is not correct.
Question:
According to the din does a person have to cover his head with two coverings during davening or is the whole hakpada just to have a hat on and it is unnecessary to have another covering under the hat?
Answer:
It is good to cover with two coverings.
July 19, 2010 4:05 am at 4:05 am in reply to: Pre Tisha Ba'av News: 50% yearn for Mikdash; Lechem HaPanim Ready! #690425Derech HaMelechMemberOf the 49% that want the Beis HaMikdash to be rebuilt and the 42% that believe it will be, I bet they are made up of all the frum people here and the Jewish cab drivers. Few people have emunah like an Israeli cab driver.
Derech HaMelechMemberI asked my Rosh Kollel and he told me I should use wine. I don’t really buy anything by the case so I don’t have anything that has kedushas shvi’is. I don’t even think that I ever did anyway.
kapusta
I believe the actual segulah for having the havdalah cup overflow (don’t know what its for anymore) is to have it spill onto the floor.
Unfortunately though, thats also a segulah for bad shalom bayis.
Derech HaMelechMemberIn terms of chesed, I don’t know how it is in America but here in E”Y there are phone books with huge gemach sections for literally anything you could possibly think of and even more things that you never would have thought of!
Derech HaMelechMemberhaQer
Its interesting that you mention this. I just opened up this sefer on mussar from the Chida. In it he quotes the Zohar that someone who talks in shul doesn’t have a chelek in the HaShem (whatever that means). It goes on to say that he is cursed in shomayim etc.
Then he says the RaMaK and Arizal did not even let people speak divrei Torah in shul (bear in mind there is a difference if the shul is used for learning and davening vs. just davening).
So I’m not so sure the ezras nashim is a good option for talking sichas b’teilim. If they’re discussing the parshah or having a va’ad that’s would probably be fine since most shuls are used for learning as well these days.
Derech HaMelechMemberchofetzchaim:
Well for all you know it could have meant looking at a young bear just like you can’t look at engraved letters on a tombstone.
As I side note, I realize why they don’t teach Gemarah to very young children. Can you imagine if your 5 year old learned the gemarah that eating fresh vegetables is harmful to you?
Also if your wives decide its time to cut down on the marrow bones in the chulent, you can tell them that you need it for your eyesight.
Derech HaMelechMemberWolf:
I forgot where i saw it, I’d imagine it would probably be found in the sefer “minhag Yisroel Torah”, that its a segulah to relight the havdalah candle after you put it out to prevent a fire in the house.
cantoresq:
Where is this tosefta? The only thing I found is the gemarah in Pesachim 42a “3 things … and take 1/500th of a persons sight:pas kiver (buried bread??) fresh bear and fresh vegetables (see rashi)…3 things…and enlighten the eyes: clean bread, fatty meat and old wine”.
The psiah gassah thing is from Berachos 43b and Shabbos 113b that psiah gassah takes away 1/500th of a persons sight and the cure is kiddush on friday night (some say from drinking the wine and others from looking at the neiros durring kiddush)
Derech HaMelechMemberYeah, I called it “sechel (forehead)and gelt (pockets)”. I meant that there was no mekor for doing so, but that we do it anyway because it became the minhag.
Derech HaMelechMemberarc I like that one.
A previous mashgiach of mine who is a son of the Masgiach from gateshead (R’ Schwab) said that when he came to E”Y as a bochur he had the down to the bottom of the ear sideburns. Coming from England I guess that was normal but when he got to the Mir in E”Y either the R”Y or mashgiach (don’t remember which) made him trim them up to the bone.
Derech HaMelechMemberI think he meant someone who put up a painting in place of the zecher l’churban.
The zecher is meant to be something saddening while a nice painting of the kosel beautifies the house.
I don’t think he meant that there is a problem with paintings of the kosel as a general rule.
Derech HaMelechMemberoooh yeah i forgot about that. The sefer Minhag Yisroel Torah (I feel like I got that name wrong its a few volume set on so many minhagim and their mekoros) says that he looked for a mekor for sechel and gelt and couldn’t find any anywhere. He asked many gedolim and they didn’t know either. But he saw that they did it anyway since “minhag Yisroel Torah”.
What’s actually brought down in halachah is to “wash your eyes with the wine” to show chavivus hamitzvah. Maybe people didn’t want to burn there eyes out from the alcohol content and put it on their eyelids and their kids thought they were putting it on their foreheads etc.
I’ve also heard that there’s a minhag to put on the place where the kesher of the teffilin shel rosh is.
Derech HaMelechMember1)You hold the kois in your right hand and the besamim in your left hand. If you run out of hands after those two have someone else hold the candle.
2)Then you say everything until and including borei pri hagofen.
3)You put down the besamim switch the kois to your left hand and pick the besamim back up in your right hand.
4)Then you make a borei minei besamim.
5)Then you put down the besamim hold your right hand to the fire and make a beorei meorei ha’eish.
6)Then you transfer the kois back to your right hand and conclude havdallah.
7)Sit down (if you stand) drink most of the kois.
8a)Then extinguish the candle in the puddle on your plate (if your wife doesn’t let you spill on the floor) by pouring from the kois onto the candle.
8b)If you are worried about your house burning relight the candle.
9)Finish drinking.
10)Make al hagefen.
11)Sing hamavdil bein kodesh lechol, change out of Shabbos clothing and have melave malka. Say gut voch to everyone.
Derech HaMelechMemberFor boys and girls:
$1,400 a year for preschool kindergarten.
After that I understand the price goes down a bit more.
E”Y
Will let you know more as I go along.
Derech HaMelechMemberAPY:
It was with Mike Tress. He went in to speak to the Rebbe and when he came out one of the Chassidim made a comment about his not having a beard. The Rebbe said to him “when mike goes to shamayim they will ask him “Yid Yid where is your beard?” when you go up to shamayim they will say “beard beard where is your Yid?”. That’s how I heard it.
Derech HaMelechMemberAOM:
I have a sheilos rav and I looked through the whole sefer for this question but I didn’t find it. Is it in a different sefer? At least I can say for now ein danin min hamaiseh.
Either way I don’t think he meant mamush assur. The Torah only assured using a razor.
That being said I’m a strong proponent of growing beards and have one myself. My previous Rosh Yeshivah says a beard and peyos is part of the tzuras haYid. And the mekubalim are also very makpid on it.
EDIT: Also the chazon Ish writes in Igeres 197 and 198 that the derech haYashar is to at least leave short hairs that can be termed “a grown beard”.
Derech HaMelechMemberIt’s very wrong but I don’t think its assur.
Klal Yisroel wouldn’t be nichshol b’rabim on an issur.
I notice that threads are giving birth to other threads. Is this normal?
Yes, if the topic changes, it warrants a new thread rather than getting off topic on the original thread.
Derech HaMelechMembertzuras hayid
Derech HaMelechMemberYou don’t have kosher phones in Ch”L yet?
Derech HaMelechMember“You asked what would the din be if you (bear) smacked a calf and knocked it out to then do shechita.
There is a treifus issue here with regard to being attacked by a carnivore. Also since it was knocked by something big. I did not learn treifus.”
This is what I love about Torah that the world will never understand. The Torah gave us the tools to figure out the halacha in any situation that can ever possibly happen ever. Ever. Ev.Er.
If the frai saw how there is nothing in the world that is not governed by the Torah they would do teshuvah in a minute.
On a side note maybe you (popa) and you (bear) should get together and write up some purim Torah after Av.
Derech HaMelechMemberI don’t understand.
The people that are taking money from government services to go to Kollel, are doing it (legally) in order to learn Torah. Why is this a problem? I think the mitzvah of talmud Torah supersedes the “chumrah” of not being on welfare.
If things get too tight, its a siman that its time to move on and the yungerman can find a job then. Until then, why do you want to take someone out of kollel?
Even if he only did it because its “the thing to do”, limud Torah is still shakul kneged kulam.Is HKB”H going to punish someone for learning Torah?
I really don’t understand what the foundation of the argument is here.
Derech HaMelechMemberBut the negative connotation are only in the mind of people who want to stay away from those types of people. I think for the most part people who are those that are being labeled take pride in their name.
For instance someone who is secular may take pride in himself as a “secular person” for his “logical, scientific” approach to life as opposed to the “religious” Jews who are “illogical, cavemen”.
On the other hand a religious Jew will take pride in his being “religious” because he lives a life of emes as opposed to the “secular” who live lives of “taiva”.
(this was only an example of what people may think- please don’t read too deeply into it)
Charda”l: Chareidi Dati Le’umi. They are the type of people who send their children to hesder yeshivas. They may have long peyos and beard but dress in jeans and a t-shirt.
Derech HaMelechMemberI don’t know what teachers make over here.
And of course the cost of living is significantly lower, but I was suggesting that someone who can secure a low-average paying job that can be done here can make it.
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