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To note Lior, a very reliable source in Kashrus that is no fan of Cholov Stam – says you can buy black coffee from any coffee shop. And for a place that has CY milk, the milk container is not a problem if it only contains CY milk…obviously.
The issue of lattes when milk is steamed would be quite problematic from C”Y perspective when there are both milks. However, it is rare to make a latte with half and half – so I assume if all regular/non-fat milk is C’Y as in the case of Cedarhurst- the milk steamer would also not be a problem. The various syrups that are used that Cholov Stam are not added when using the steamer to my recollection.
I am chassidish leaning individual and a number of actual chasidim I’ve seen buy coffee from the DD in Cedarhurst. Not saying that is a proof.
The chasidish velt has rabbanim that treat cholov stam as treif…but not all. There are many heimish yidden (including Rabbanim) in Kashrus checking facilities that are cholov stam. They would not do the same for treif (Chas V’shalom – just making a point). As an aside, since Cholov Yisrael is d’rabbanan and (usually) a liquid -anyways there is more leniency in regards to kashering etc. ignoring the mekilim.
The real shaila by milk is treifos, which would make it treif mdoraissa. The issues are usually mitigated by Cholov Yisrael dairies that ensure the cows in the herds are ok. Nonetheless, it is such a strongly accepted practice to consume cholov stam in America that I do not think any major Rabbanim seem to be making a big deal about it.
The closest to 46th Street and 2nd Ave according to Godaven.
Beit Yitzchak Ohel Sarah Synagogue (sefardi) -587 Fifth Avenue (between 47 & 48 street) New York, NY 10017 USA (212) 750-5000 – says there is Shacharis M/Th @ 8am.
Chabad of Midtown (see above) is next closest for Shacharis.
I think there are minyanim by the diamond district by the dairy cafe there – but it’d might be only Mincha.
Interesting discussion.
Agav, the DD by Cedarhurst on Rockaway Turnpike has only Cholov Yisrael whole and nonfat milk (the half and half is not) and its open 24 hours [someone goes even on YK and Pesach to check out – and it always has Jews there- r’l probably even on Shabbos!]. So if you want Dunkin Donuts and cholov yisrael milk – then that’s where you should go. Under the Vaad of 5 Towns and Far Rockaway (as mentioned above). Other places have cholov yisrael milk available – but I heard someone claim that by the fact that there is both at one location, then it upon being open is not cholov yisrael milk (ie the worker can just add from non-CY). I think that having only regular milk that is cholov yisrael that mitigates the issue. But I am not a posek, nor am I sure that one can’t rely on the milk at “mixed” DDs.
Note though that most syrups etc. are dairy (ie not CY) but under reliable hechsherim. The one that is parve upon that last time I checked (early in the summer) was vanilla (the klal is dairy until proven otherwise from having asked to look at a number of syrups – the chocolate syrup is dairy equipment to my recollection). A random klal for coffee stores in general is that vanilla syrup for coffee is usually kosher and pareve. Again I am not a posek. The donuts are made with powder as mentioned. I think few people (though I do know they exist) make exception for powdered – or maybe just for kids for example – either all or nothing. Actual cooked things is more complex as the microwave issue is real ( I know of a 2nd hand story – from the person who called the kashrus agency upon getting word one of the worker’s friend heated up their supper in the microwave) – it was outside of brooklyn/cedarhurst – the kashrus person went down, figured things out, and likely kashered the microwave [not sure exactly what was done but the baal machshir took immediate action to his credit]. Isolated incidents don’t necessarily ruin the kashrus l’halacha to my knowledge.
On the general argument, my two perutahs.
The American velt does not treat Cholov Yisrael as an issur gamur. Many kashrus agencies don’t kasher like it was devar issur for example (I heard this from a reliable source in the industry). Ignoring if milk might be now an issue of treifos, cholov stam is a machlokes rishonim/achronim to my understanding from hearing from those that learned it. There is one view that holds its a lo plug (no exceptions even if we are sure the milk does not have any non-kosher milk in it). There is a view that holds that if one is 100% sure that the milk is cow’s milk – there is no issur on it. Reb Moshe obviously held like one side (and the Chazon Ish agreed al pi sevara), and many others held the other opinion. I personally do not eat cholov stam – and try to be particular but l’maaseh unless you’re Rabbi is one of yichidim – there is general consensus to treat it is as a chumra (- note chumras are not automatically /usually baseless [as many blog convos mislead one to believe], many are halachically quite sound and preferable – think about this: if one finds 100 chumras that are kept by some and not others, when Eliyahu comes – not a few of those 100 will be correct and makelim will have done something wrong – not that it’s wrong in a punishment sense if based on sound logic but in a legal sense).
Assuming the previous paragraph is true (chumra vs kula), I believe the dinim that apply are like other situations where there are two places – one machmir, one makel. When one goes to a place that is machmir, there is (simplistically) a need to be machmir (even if one is from a place that is makel), and if one is machmir goes to one who is makel, one can’t be publicly machmir (they are allowed to follow their chumra privately.) This is of course talking about chumras – not if one felt that it was forbidden m’ikar hadin. But considering that Reb Moshe, , many rabbanim of yesteryear in America, Rav Belsky, Rav Ahron Kotler (see Mishpacha article from a few weeks back) the OU, YU, OK, Star-K etc etc. all say it is ok at least m’ikar hadin – no one really can say otherwise BIKAR HADIN. Maybe it is the right thing not to eat it, but it is not a certain wrong thing to eat. Therefore for a need, one can give to someone else without issue even if they are accustomed to treat it is as not Kosher. This would be though to give it to someone who is not particular. A person who is accustomed to not eat it would be forbidden to be given cholov stam even by a Talmid of Reb Moshe because the recipient they personally hold can’t be eaten (because of the concept that was mentioned in another post that someone who treats permissible as forbidden, makes the permissible forbidden – as long as it is soundly based – see discussion on melacha on Chanukah, gebrokts etc. – which cholov yisrael according to all is soundly based as many Rishonim/Achronim hold that it applies in all circumstances)
As for eruvin, the Brooklyn Eruv is major hock. But l’maaseh when one is machmir to not use an eruv, one CAN ask someone to carry something for them. If one holds there is no eruv/eruv is totally not reliable, then one cannot ask someone to carry – just like one can’t ask someone to do any other melacha on Shabbos. There are many opinions out there that are makel on Eruvin, and though one can’t rely on any and all makelim, I don’t think there is any eruv (unless poorly constructed) that is pasul to all opinions. If so, then fine. But I wonder if practically there is a problem of indirectly telling someone where a parsha sheet is in a place that has an eruv that is kosher to some valid shitta (even though for example l’halacha and to one’s own rav it is not reliable and a potential melacha d’oraissa.)
I would like to see if anyone has sources from contemporary poskim on these issues.
Can I make a coffee for my frum boss who is not machmir on CY? Good q.
A few thoughts on this very geshmak thread!
May I say that a thread like this that “hondles” an issue that is relatively recent, and one that people can bring direct sources is the ideal thread – as opposed to other topics.
1- Anyone who has learned both knows that both are amazing. The Mishnah Berurah is far easier to read, especially if you are learning Tur/Beis Yosef, then the Shulchan Aruch as the MB is right off the Shulchan Aruch. The Aruch Hashulchan is nice because of its background to the sugya, for example it often gives not just explanations of halacha but of the pshat in the Tur, Bais Yosef, Rambam etc. And it quotes common practice, which is l’halacha significant and interesting. Assuming you want to learn the basic of halacha, the M’B is for sure the first stop. Again, one cannot posken everything from any sefer, but to get a background and the different opinions in a brief way than the M’B is more well suited (for example for bar mitzvah age children).
2- I am not disagreeing with importance of minhagim. A chassidish Rav I know (and love) often would lament that the Yeshivish world stopped certain minhagim (or at least does not allow for different minhagim) within its current system [and at time makes those minhagim to be shvach or bdeived]. Similarly, I think this what Rav Schacter is in a way saying that M’B ignores comon practice when formulating his p’sak; rather basing it on a halachic analysis solely (or mostly.
However let me say (I am not disagreeing, just pointing out something) that if one studies halacha like Tur/Bais Yosef, we see countless and countless times that there are opinions (often the accepted practiced of that Rishon/Achron and his community) that are not followed and highly questioned by practically “everyone on the page” and “all the poskim” (of course this phrase is rarely used literally). This is often with an opinion based on a unique/self-created idea or to back a practice by backing into a sevara (ie now that I know what the practice is, let me relearn the gemara). This happens for example with the Rema multiples times. NOW there are always those that find backing to the Rema for example, and I am not of course disagreeing (CHAS V’SHALOM)- but it’s just a fact that we see classical commentaries more than not disagree with unique p’sak that at least outwardly go against the gemara and its accepted interpretations. For example, the Taz says something based on his own intuition everyone jumps it. There is a sefer from the classical Minhagei Ashkenaz, and countless rishonim line up to bring proof that it is wrong (there are of course those like the Bach or Taz who will often counter). The main point of this paragraph is as follows: In hundred years, Mashgiach should be here, but assuming Eliyahu Hanavi is not paskening yet (G-d forbid) – the sefer that is more “halachic based” with fewer chiddushim will be the more accepted sefer in general. The Shach is a great example vs the Taz. The Mechaber vs. Rema (again not always or even most for Ashenazim but the amount of times most Ashkenazim do not follow the Rema I believe (please note this is not scientific) is much more than Sefardim not following the mechaber).
3- Finally, the Posek I am close to had a yesodisdik line when he gave a kitzur shulchan aruch shiur. He said over a kitzur, noted that mishnah berurah disagreed. And commented that l’masseh (not to say he was going like one opinion or the other) when you get to shmayim and you say you did so and so because the Kitzur Shulchan Aruch said so – you don’t have to worry. That is if one is basing themselves on an accepted sefer (MB ArHs Kitzur etc – it takes a long time to learn all the seferim cover to cover) that is not what we need to be worrying about in our din v’cheshbon. There are many more significant things that (at least myself) regarding middos etc. that we do not have what to be somech.
Frliechen Chanukah.
I’d say eftach that you can be experiencing real happiness, yet others can be even happier in at least a particular scenario. Or vice versa. Emotions are not static. The happiness one feels when one makes a $1000 is happiness, but it’s not the same as $10,000 or $100,000. Same with ruchniyus or for example simchas and life events (births).
I feel the root of the issue is not self esteem for you ;-), but the inability to appreciate the moment. Let me say that it is very normal. Any person who has something, will naturally ponder the possibility if they had more of that thing. L’mashal, they go into a delicious restaurant and get a great dish. Meanwhile, they see other great dishes. It’s only natural to wonder if theirs was as great as the others. One learns a blatt, and its great. But they note that there is so much to learn. Maybe they didn’t do what they should have? Maybe they didn’t accomplish or experience what was real learning?
Of course wanting to improve, wanting more good things is not bad. But by and large, a person needs to instill in themselves the greatness of the moment. One when is happy, let’em be happy. Let’em think of great state they are in. Let them thank Hashem for the kindness he has bestowed by doing something to make one happy. To analyze the potential that one’s happiness is insufficient is not not-normal but unhealthy.
Do you ever see people shavous night that only seem to come to shmooze and eat cheese cake – and say what’s the deal? Do you ever see people talking in shul – and go why are you here?
I think the same can be said to those that go to a place from what I have heard is a life changing event that has literally altered and moved thousands of yidden of different backgrounds in their avodas Hashem (including many learned people who were not in it for any hock reasons and who love their families) and act improperly. I don’t think we should stop learning on shavous night because some people don’t learn and eat cake. And I don’t think we should stop minyanim where people talk. Even though, both events can be labeled a chillul hashem.
I actually think we should be dan l’chaf tzchus. That the neshama of the guy eating the cheese cake and talking is also holy. He is in the right place, has right intentions – just his nisayon is luckily not my or your nisayon.
I am not a Breslaver Chasid by any stretch. But I will leave the decision of why people do things for the right or wrong reason to Hashem especially when I know that so many have been positively effected by the experience.
True.
Isn’t amazing that as at least I go about just my family’s needs for yom tov and can barely find the time to call the people I want…other Yidden thought years back or more recently, hey there other people that need help for Yom Tov or in general, let me (=them) spend a significant percentage of preparation time for Y’T to help other Yidden in need and not only that but create an organization that will take up even more time running so others can help and more can be done.
Meamcha Yisrael!
I don’t want to. But I had the idea of making a contest next Rosh Hashanah of the best yehei ratzons -maybe over Twitter for Kiruv purposes (:-)). I imagine there would be some great simanim.
Any takers can take my idea free of charge or sourcing for next R’H.
To add one I heard a few years back – a mushroom for a single girl – may you marry a fun guy…
There are thousands of more children born this year in frum havens like Lakewood and Brooklyn than the year before. And as always, the gender percentage is relatively equal. Arguing over the age gap is to me a puzzling proposition.
Divrei Chizuk! (and this is for those who are not divorced too)
The sefer Yalkut Mashiv Nefesh is very nice.
As the Rambam states, one has to go the middle route. When is too full of themselves, they need mussar to the other side in order to balance themselves. If one is going through a tough stretch, the main learning should be to uplift and increase their spirits.
Simchas and Bsoros Tovos to YaakovDovid and gantz klal yisrael
link removed
Does anyone question a bima klop for something so personal as shidduchim? Bima Klops are for yaleh v’yavo.
The real area is in shmooze. And there is a lot to shmooze about for Roshei Yeshiva. One topic not being mentioned often is not negating the stance of the Roshei Yeshiva one way or another.
I have not been to many Yeshivas but to my knowledge most Yeshivas set up a system where people go personally (ie one on one) to discuss dating and when to get married with a rebbe or older kollel yungerman…not en masse speech (or bima klop) to many bochurim of various ages and maturity levels about specific instructions for when to get married.
And if one’s RY signed the kol koreh and has not said anything contradictory…can’t we assume (chazakah, nu?) that’s their stance. Why is there a need for additional proofs?
The Shidduch crisis or issue or whatever is complicated because every boy and every girl is their own parshah. However, general ideas being more readily acceptable that help in general terms the issue are a big step in the right direction (=dating younger or marrying an “older” girl). Reb Chaim said about marrying older/same age, many other gedolim. Is this some conspiracy by a baal habus who already married off his daughters of marital age with ease? Please. Is there any shidduch crisis by any givirim who have daughters that have pull in the Torah world? Is trying to convince people that “bochurim” (a code word unfortunately for many with immaturity) should marry earlier not something that all these intelligent people probably considered and analyzed data for before making such remarks.
Rabbi Rechnitz is the real deal. He’s not making CDs for Shmitta observers or getting his hand involved (see above etc.) in the very touchy topic of shidduchim because he’s got an agenda. Other than doing what he feels is right about a serious issue that has the full backing of most if not all of Daas Torah.
If tomorrow, there is no bima klop. You still need to say HaMelech HaKadosh. The Roshei Yeshiva don’t have to say so again.
I assume you want by yontif. Kova Hats in Boro Park is good…but I don’t know the time frame. In Inwood, there is a yid who fixes shoes and I believe works on hats too.
The place is called Tony’s Shoe Repair (“expert shoe repair” online – 183 Doughty Blvd Inwood
). I imagine he could do it on short notice.There is even a lady that reviewed on-line that he did a good job with her husband’s hat!
link removed
Look it up!
Mishnah Berurah (93:5 – on seif 2)
The achronim write that whoever does not close his eyes when he pray the shemoneh esrei will not earn the privilege of seeing the countenance of the Shechinah (l’ros pnei hashechinah) when his soul departs. Notwithstanding, if one prays from a siddur and his eyes are open so that he can see what is written in it, there is no objection in doing so. {Says to be see the M’B 91:6 that brings a scary Zohar about looking around during shemoneh esrei] (Translation mostly from Feldheim)
I believe the Ari Z’l davened from a siddur so as to be careful to pronounce the words correctly.
In conclusion, both closing eyes and looking at a siddur are viable options, looking anywhere else is not during shemoneh esrei.
There are a lot of people with problems these days. Some problems lend themselves to bullying. It’s an issue that does not get solved by less shmoozing.
Recess is a lesson in life. Life does not always have teachers and rebbes. Of course, a school needs to be watchful and act if something occurs. But it’s never going to be perfect, just as life.
The main issue is to instill in the non-bullies the evil that is making someone feel bad, hurt. If a child saw another be embarrassed and had even somewhat internalized the Chazal that embarrassing a person is an aspect of killing someone (to the extent that the din is [disregarding the details] yareg v’al yaver if faced with the option of being killed or enabling an embarrassment of someone) – then would it be such a problem.
Now, this is mainly with somewhat older children. Young children (to throw out a number, up to ten) need very close (but at a distance) supervision of their social skills. This is as an importance job to a teacher or rebbe to help instill in children proper bein adom l’chaveiro. Just as a teacher cannot answer a lengthy call in the middle of class, they can’t when supervising. Note: a school should be set up that every teacher gets real breaks not supervising recess breaks. But older kids, need to learn to fix things for themselves. And that just does not mean with them themself but their surroundings and others as well. They need to stand up (after asking their parents or a rebbe how to proceed) and fix bullying dynamics. Just as if they saw that one of their classmates was being beaten or was starving, one would hope that all fair-minded classmates would speak up, so to with the matter of bullying.
I’d like to also say a potential thing to parents that children that are being bullied. This needs to be discussed with their rabbi. As stated, the din is that one makes someone’s face white from shame, it is as if they killed them. Now, if someone was actually chas v’shalom trying to kill your son or daughter, there would be no qualms. The person has a din rodef. Any means that are necessary (though not more). Extreme means are not out of the question. Digging up dirt on the bully. Extreme pressure on the parents of the bully. Of course, one must seek counsel. But the matter is of life and death, and those who can stop the matter, must. PLEASE READ THE NEXT PARAGRAPH THOUGH.
Note: as stated, a lot of times the bullying is due to issues at home etc. Try to see if you can help the bully figure those things out (or the parents of the bully). Your daughter is being harassed by a girl from an unstable home. Contact a chesed organization (or make one) and try to help the bully. Get her a mentor. Get her babysitting jobs or something to build her self-confidence. Do what you got to do. Don’t hide behind that why should I do someone a favor, when I am the one that has been wronged. No, your kid’s (spiritual and emotional) life is in danger. No excuses. And no blame games.
oomis got it on the head. Perhaps she really is the best bubbe ever?
To take this guy, he might be a bad seed. But why are we looking for the worst in someone that we don’t even know!! Let me explain a likely dynamic:
Many guys in yeshiva don’t have to man-up too often (let me say this really applies for most young men). They (the guys in yeshiva) do not have to put someone down (even in a manner like this that is necessary – you can’t marry someone you don’t want to) and don’t want to. They do not like the feeling of hurting another person. By texting, it’s easier, less painful – death by hit man to use an extreme comparision. In this case, they will not have to deal with it because a girl and guy in a shidduch will only be involved as long the shidduch proceeds. This is not out of a bad place, just a really cruel (BUT UNKNOWINGLY SO) decision. This is something that someone should be mechanech their children for – how to say no. Example: There are only 4 seats in the car to something fun, and 5 friends want to come. Tell your son (practice first) how to break the news like a mentsch to the fifth friend.
Hashem does this all the time. We want something now, we want something a certain way. Hashem says no, not that way, you can’t do that particular thing or at least right now. It’s still out of love. An employee that is not working out, a person that wants what cannot be given, whatever. It’s not an aveirah to say no, it’s a mitzvah to say no like Hashem without hate, with love, with compassion.
This is not some easy feat. Let’s not just go down the jump on the Yeshiva guy path. He might have a serious reason to not want to continue and knows his inefficiency at having a “talk” with someone. It’s hard for him, and it’s hard for all of us. The way to help this young lady is by helping our sons or talmidim to stop this happening as much, not by beating a dead horse.
All suggestions above are valid. To add two.
There are Rabbis that are known for all types of things (monetary issues, science matters, chinuch etc.). In sticky situations, often one’s personal rav will defer to such a posek or such. In this case, a well regarded rav in these matters [ie dating/chosson issues] (I can think of the mashgiach of Long Beach, forgetting his name at moment or others) can be counseled with full privacy for your Rav and kallah. This is of course daas torah.
Another important note:
You are very upset (can tell from your post). Calm down and note the opportunity. This is a great lesson for marriage. Often, the other spouse upsets the other because of a matter that is unclear (in this case, you don’t even seem to know what problem your wife had!). The wrong thing is to close down and fill in the blanks with assumptions (ie she doesn’t have respect for daas torah or the halacha that the man is in control of halachic matters). And even if the matter is bad (ie your kallah’s points are lackluster), you still should not get upset. Please note, this is not a knock on you. It’s human nature. But you need to get ready for marriage now. Use this sensitive topic that is hard for you (this rav is very close and likely is a great person) to test yourself not to get upset with your wife. Try to have the follow up conversation with her but with a voice behind you alerting you to be patient and understanding. When you are engaged its not so hard. You do it, and then go back after to your dorm, apartment, or house and you’re single again. When you get married, you don’t go anywhere. The hole is dug and will just grow. Hashem wants YOU to grow, do it!
Hatzlacha Rabba.
Thirdly, maybe have the conversation at a restaurant or place that you know your kallah enjoys to lighten the mood and don’t start the date talking about it!
I wrote a long statement and decided to just write a short(er) piece on the issue with R’ Shmuly and his ilk.
Open Orthodoxy is the Conservative Movement of old – plain and simple. Just with a new spin (though it’s not the first to have such a spin in the history of Judaism). Instead of allowing practices for many traditionally minded Jews that wanted to fit into American society (like being able to drive on Shabbos, family purity, marriage laws, details of kashrus etc.) and still not feel guilty about their Judaism, it is bending hashkafa to allow for many observant and traditional Jews again on the border of Orthodoxy that want to fit into America’s very pervasive and narrow-minded secular culture. Just like with the Conservative movement, “out of town communities” are the first to face the issue head on as the general populace is less educated than areas with high density populations of observant Jews as a whole. In short, the modern American Jew does have that hard of time to eat kosher, go to a shiur, or even to walk to a shul…but he or she does have a problem believing in a morality system that all the media and many of their acquaintances so strongly disagree with.
This is serious. Even in a sense more so than the Conservative movement that while tragic, did not affect the Orthodox movements and remained distinct. Open Orthodoxy is not distinct. They want their conversions recognized, their wisdom lauded, and they want to be accepted by the Orthodox. They already have their supporters in the ranks of modern leaning Orthodox like even the RCA (it was to my knowledge a hotly contested matter if YCT grads should be accepted at least until recently) and forced the Rabbinate in Israel to change course in their acceptance of conversion policy by using political force. This is not just am aratzim saying dumb things (R’ Shmuly is not someone I know personally but from what I hear he is a very nice person who just does not know better, same with the previous OO Rabbi in Phoenix who I did meet that just was clueless to the lines of Orthodoxy vs. non Torah thinking). The leadership do know what’s what, though they play the ignorance card. At least the early talmedei chachim in Conservative movement were doing it for the position and money! This is worse. This is a religious matter. They feel altruistically that Orthodoxy must be drastically changed. This should be an alarming matter for anyone that is believing Torah Jew.
or any other suggestions?
Does anyone have address/phone number of “Mr. Mendelovich”?
Tizku L’Mitzvos
Good Shaila.
I looked at a few seforim, nothing much.
Two Ideas though of mine (not mentioned previously) both pro and con:
For being able to daven Musaf: There is a shaila by sefiras haomer and blowing shofar in the same scenario of early shabbos (after maariv). The Taz says no, but I believe the Halacha is (I think R’ Moshe agrees with this opinion) you can blow shofar or count sefira or read megilla…with brachas and details I don’t know. So to, it would seem, it still is Friday and R”H but just tosefes shabbos on top of that. By mincha it is different because you davened maariv, musaf though is connected to the day, which still is lasting til shkiyah.
Against: there is an halacha I don’t understand but seems to be the main opinion. When R”H falls on motzei shabbos, one should be particular to stop eating before shkiyah because if it not it would be a stira in bentsching. I don’t get that because it is still Shabbos because of tosefes shabbos and it is now Rosh Chodesh. I don’t get why that is a contradiction. But most seem to disagree though some say both retzeh and yaaleh v’yavo. Not sure if this is same by our case, but it could be similar regading being contradictory.
DQB
They had such an idea of making the sites .xxx instead of .com. Not sure if it will be implemented.
It’d make sense.
DQB
First off, I think the only time most wear a shayne coat (especially over a hat) is when its raining (and not just drizzling). Who really cares about fashion at that point?
Second, the main alternative is wearing a plastic bag. Which is for one thing, way not cool. And secondly, it problematic without an eruv. As for a shayne coat, I don’t know if there is such an opinion that one might take it off by a shayne coat (sounds shver b/c it’d be the same with any raincoat which I don’t think anyone doesn’t allow), but for sure it is considered a beged and is no problem of hotzah (carrying) on Shabbos (being as the hatcover is one garment with the rest of the coat).
BS”D
This is a really tough issue on so many levels. One needs a serious Adam Gadol to ask on how to handle a lot of these questions not in a conversation in a coffee room (for example seeking or going against the death penalty or something that would likely cause death by the hands of other inmates). I also hope YW is consulting with someone.
1) On BPT post on the “Tookie” discussion. It just so happens to be I was learning Makkos, and (as always when learning any gemara) I checked out the Kollel Iyun Hadaf. Very interesting piece: http://dafyomi.co.il/makos/insites/ma-dt-013.htm
Here’s the question:
QUESTION: Rebbi Akiva states that every prohibition that is punishable with Kares also carries with it the possibility for the punishment of lashes. This does not apply to prohibitions punishable with a death penalty, since those transgressors already receive death as a corporal punishment. Rebbi Akiva explains that this is just and fair, since it is possible that the person who is Chayav Kares might only receive Malkus and not an additional punishment of Kares, because he might do Teshuvah and repent before he dies, in which case Hash-m will not give him Kares.
RASHI (DH Rebbi Akiva) explains that Rebbi Akiva means to say that his statement does not contradict the verse which teaches that one cannot be punished with two punishments for one act. Rebbi Akiva’s opinion is consistent with that rule, because a person can exempt himself from the punishment of Kares by doing Teshuvah, and thus he receives only Malkus.
However, there is another difficulty with the statement of Rebbi Akiva. Hash-m accepts a person’s genuine Teshuvah and absolves him from punishment. Why, then, does Beis Din not do the same? Why does Beis Din punish the penitent with Misah or with Malkus, if Hash-m does not punish such a person? Just as Hash-m forgives the person’s obligation of Kares, Beis Din also should absolve the Ba’al Teshuvah from Misah or Malkus. –AD KAN LESHONO–
(See link for answers- one is exactly l’havdil as the caller).
I think the goyim also have a mitzvah in a similar regatd but in regards to a Jew in a secular country. Ask a serious Rabbi.
2) Again, I have no idea what is the right course of action and as with anyone I am still in shock from the whole thing. I did think though of a case recently where a Yid in Florida got the death penalty for brutally murdering a police officer in his later youth. He since (after being on death row) did teshuva, and many people and askanim worked to have him not receive the death penalty. One of the sticky things about it was that it reeked of a double standard (that is to the goyim) because we never seem to protest a goy killing another goy getting the death penalty. So if it is true (which I imagine it is since unfortunately we don’t have beis din, let alone eidim in this particular case) that he is not l’halacha supposed to get the death penalty and we make it known publically. It could a good thing… don’t know.
Bsoros Tovos
DQB
The lists of reasons for milchigs is out of control. I heard a shiur once…mamish like 20-25 reasons, likely not an exhaustive list.
Nonetheless, the Rema in Shulchan Aruch gives the reason because one is supposed to eat both challahs in lechem mishna, as a rememberance the bringing of two loaves in the Beis Hamikdash. In other words, one will eat dairy, which now makes the bread unusable for a fleishig meal (din in Shulchan Aruch), then bentsch/wait/wash, eat fleishigs now with the other challah. Therefore milchigs is really at least outwardly just to remind one to eat both loaves of bread.
Again there are other reasons, but the most “codified” is worthy to take note.
DQB
There is a shita I believe that allows it, but you have to ask a posek. The shaila is on miksas yom c’kulo, is that by night or the beginning of the day to my knowledge…
Not sure all the details, but I do know its a worthwhile question for a posek for example if one cannot do it friday for a valid reaon.
DQB
“It’s far from pashut. You’re basically accusing all men of being disgusting lechers.”
I did not mean to say all men are “lechers”. I just that such a thing has occurred. My fault for my lack of clarity.
“That’s a separate argument and really has nothing to do with the issue at hand since the same applies to boys’ graduations.”
I admit I should also have been for clear. The argument is as follows. If I want to send by son or daughter to a place where I get to go to a competitive basketball game, have him or her join the Model UN, and wear a frilly hat then that is my choice, fine.
But if I want to send them to a school (the type I am assuming that is being discussed) who are not overly influenced by secular culture but rather Torah hashkafa etc., then what I am doing harping about my lack of being to able to attend a graduation ceremony and thereby denigrating the administration? If I didn’t like their views then I can send them to another school or gather people and make a new school. Just like them but with mixed graduation ceremonies!
DQB
“Yes, that’s right. Because I went to my daughter’s graduation, all sorts of terrible things happened.”
Come on, Wolfish.
If a son comes from school, and says he was talking with girls, but nothing happened…so it’s ok?
Let me wager a guess that bored men staring at even the most tznius of women has at least one time caused a bad thought etc. It’s pashut.
I am not saying its the worst situation by any means and it is definitely mutar (I am not posek but I think its obvious)…but its not ideal IMO and a school that chooses to do so is hardly deserving of “TOO FRUM” sticker.
Not to mention, the nachas one gets from a daughter should not be the giving a diploma in a funky hat and gown. It should the work and maturity gained from the years of High School. I do sympathize with a father who has shelled out the bucks and does want that Kodak moment…but l’maaseh its not a particular yiddishe sach to be obsessed with a graduation ceremony.
DQB
I just don’t understand. What’s the big deal?
Its not like a guy who is being bored out of his mind with nothing but high school girls to look at will be a problem of tznius.
DQB
Blue Prints “leaniyas daati the whole thing sounds like a shtus (if no yidden are learning then the world goes back to tohu vovohu) but it has it’s mekoros so there you go “
Actually, you are right on both accounts. I saw in the Netai Gavriel one makor is that since the learning of Klal Yisrael keeps the world a float, nittel nacht (which was a night of many pogroms and persecution of Jews) was send a sign to shaymayim of the effect if (chas v’shalom) Klal Yisrael was destroyed…thus gaining rachimim.
DQB