DaMoshe

HaKatan: You’re slipping!! You didn’t mention Zionism at all! Are you feeling ok?

You talk about the “questionable” piece from R’ Broyde. R’ Broyde stresses in the article that he’s attempting to be melamed zchus for the women who don’t cover their hair. However, in the piece, he stresses that it should NOT be relied upon, nor used as a heter. He stresses that married women should cover their hair! I don’t see anything questionable about that!

MO does NOT attempt to justify what they are doing. Perhaps a few people do, but I’ve never heard a MO Rav try to justify why a married woman can uncover her hair in public. You’re making things up and attacking a large group of people. You should ask for mechilah.

Modern Orthodox does not allow women to wear pants, or married women to go with their hair uncovered. I highly doubt you’ll find a MO Rav anywhere who would say it’s ok.

Are there people who do it? Yes, there are. Just as there are Jews of all types who speak lashon hara and motzei shem ra (such as the OP claiming that MO allows these things), Jews who steal from people, Jews who molest children… need I go on? Just because some people do it doesn’t mean the official stance is that it’s allowed.

A friend of mine from Darchei Torah wrote to R’ Chaim and asked him about the story with the Beis Hamikdash. He got an envelope back. On the envelope it was written, “Shamati shezeh min hagoyim” (or something very similar to that. I clearly remember the words “min hagoyim”.)

The agreement itself will usually give more protection for the landlord. Local laws, however, often protect the tenants, and are only binding when there is a lease document signed. If there’s no lease, you may not legally be considered a tenant. It pays to have a lease so that you have the protection of the city/town you live in.

Did you mean your “post”? What you write is not a blog. It’s a post on a message board. There’s a difference.

Feif Un posted a couple of times about the Rashi about right/left. Here’s what he posted once:

The Riva says the left/right mentioned in the pasuk refers to Rabbonim telling us not to do a mitzvah such as Shofar on Shabbos, or Arba Minim on Shabbos. It only refers to a mitzvah that they are telling us NOT to do.

The Yerushalmi says in Horios that the pasuk means only if they say right is right and left is left. If they say otherwise, you do not listen.

There are many shitos against Rashi. Indeed, both Rambam and Ramban do not pasken like Rashi in this regard. There is a Sifre which Rashi bases it on, but again, many question the Sifre, and there are Gemoros in both bavli and Yerushalmi that say otherwise. R’ Ovadia Yosef reconciles the two views as I mentioned above – you have to confront the Rav if you think he erred. Until you confront him, you do not listen. The Yad HaMelech states that if you listen when you think he erred just because you think you have to listen, you are required to bring a korbon chatas. Only after confronting the Rav with the opposing view, and he stands by what he said, are you required to listen.

HaKatan: Isn’t the law that you can’t work if you didn’t serve in the IDF only until the age of 28? A study found that 65% of the … chareidi men between the ages of 35 and 54 are unemployed. If they’re allowed to work at that age, why are 65% of men not doing so?

The fact remains that before the founding of the state of Israel, there were very few yeshivos in Palestine. They were only for the small population who lived there. There were tensions between the Jews and the Arabs living there (look at the Hebron Massacre in 1929, for example.)

Since the founding of the state of Israel, there has been a huge increase in the number of yeshivos there! Hundreds of thousands of people have learned there, thanks to the founding of the state. This would never have been allowed under the rule of Muslims.

Jews once again have full access to the Kotel to daven. Before the founding of the state, the kotel was surrounded by trash, with only a small, narrow path in front of it. Now, the Kotel gets the respect it deserves, and is safely accessible to all Jews. The same goes for many other holy places.

You can dismiss the safety it provides after the horrors of the Holocaust if you like. The fact remains that if such a thing were to happen again, Israel would be ready to help all the Jews it could.

Are there things I dislike about Israel? Sure. When I went on Birthright, someone (an Israeli) told our group, “I love Israel. Israel is a place where everyone can be proud to be a Jew!”

I don’t get that. My great-grandparents were very proud to be Jews in Europe, even as they were being led to the gas chambers. It’s no big deal to be proud to be a Jew in Israel. I’m proud to be a Jew living in the US! It’s a big deal to be proud to be a Jew when living among those who look down on you for it. I don’t need Israel to be proud!

interjection: I’m not sure what to think about it, but I do think the signs were wrong. The Rabbonim behind the event made it very clear that it was a gathering for prayer, and nothing else. They said straight out that no political statements would be made. They purposely only had a small lectern for the person leading the tefillos so nobody would even think of making a speech. So why did people completely ignore what the Rabbonim said, and bring those signs to the atzeres? TO me, the signs were a chillul Hashem, showing that people who claim to follow Daas Torah in every aspect of their lives ignored the instructions they were given.

dveykus613: Honestly, I don’t blame the chilonim for it. Unfortunately, there have been many instances of fraud in the chareidi world, where chareidim who didn’t want to serve in the army (and wanted to keep getting a government check) would lie and say they were learning full time. Even worse, they had a Rosh Kollel who was willing to back them up, and support the lie. When the chilonim see on the news that a Rabbi is being arrested for fraud, and that there were hundreds of supposed “learners” who were faking it, how do you expect them to react?

Imagine the difference if everyone was honest about it! I believe that things would be completely different. I place the blame on those who lied and the “Rabbonim” who backed up the lies. They caused a huge chillul Hashem, and this is what it led to.

I don’t know if a senator or congressperson would be so willing to go along with letting chareidim into the US. They already know in advance that this is a group who won’t be looking for jobs (likely won’t be working at all), so they won’t be paying taxes, and will just want to get as many benefits as they can. Honestly, if I was a senator, there’s no way I’d want them. Remember, as a senator, your job is to look out for your constituency. Would you honestly want such a drain on the local budgets?

You wrote, “The girl was dressed normally but the mothers skirt barely covered her knees!”

That means the skirt did cover the knees, correct? So I don’t see what the issue is. Are you trying to put in new standards? Now covering the knees is not enough, it needs to go down to mid-calf?

Either that, or you need a lesson in English. Your use of “anotherwords” shows that you can use one anyway.

Sephardim are originally from Spain. After the Inquisition, many of them fled to the Middle East. That’s why there are so many Sephardim from those countries. There were also some who went to Central America and South America – they are referred to as Ladino.

Why do you say we were all Sephardim once? There were plenty of Jews whose ancestors never lived in Spain.

HaKatan: You did not answer my question. Do you think Chassidus has a valid mesorah or not?

I will attempt to re-word my post so it gets allowed through.

HaKatan, you say Rabbeinu Tam did not abandon his mesorah from Rashi.

As is well known, there is a difference of opinion regarding tefillin between Rashi and Rabbeinu Tam. Rabbeinu Tam disagreed with the mesorah he had from his grandfather, and changed the order of the parshiyos in his tefillin.

Rashi also held that we should put our mezuzos on the doorpost in a vertical position. Rabbeinu Tam disagreed, and held it should be horizontal.

In both these cases, Rabbeinu Tam argued on the mesorah of his grandfather.

In the case of Israel and Zionism, there is more reason to allow arguments. R’ YB Soloveitchik’s father passed away before the state of Israel was founded. It’s very possible he would have changed his views after the founding. Additionally, while he may have said non-religious Zionism was wrong, he did maintain a warm relationship with religious Zionists (particularly the Mizrachi movement). It’s possible he was in favor of religious Zionism.

In any case, my Rav is a student of R’ Herschel Schachter shlita, who was a student of R’ YB Soloveitchik zt”l. R’ Soloveitchik was a member of the Moetzes of Agudas Yisroel, and was held in high regard by other Rabbonim. There is absolutely nothing wrong with following his halachic opinions.

HaKatan: The fact is that R’ Soloveitchik held it was ok. It doesn’t matter what his father held – he is still a legitimate shittah to follow! Rabbeinu Tam was Rashi’s grandson, and he often argues on Rashi. Your quote from the Gerrer Rebbe is nice – for Gerrer chassidim. Many others held R’ Kook to be a gadol. There are also many others (I’ve named some) who hold Zionism is perfectly fine. Again, why can’t you accept that people can follow a shittah other than yours?

If you’re going to argue your way, then you pasul chassidus as a whole.

Yes. Even though I don’t understand them, I do realize that there are legitimate Rabbonim behind them, and they are therefore legitimate.

HaKatan: I said I was done in this thread, and indeed, I won’t argue anymore. I just wanted to respond to your 3rd request for “forgiveness”.

The Rambam, describes the act of forgiveness as follows: “Once the attacker has asked forgiveness once, and then a second time, and we know that he has repented for his sin and he has abandoned the evil that he has done, then one must forgive him.”

In this thread, in the very post you asked for forgiveness, you claimed that I am oved avodah zarah. You clearly did not repent for your sin and you definitely did not abandon the evil you have done. Therefore, even after 3 requests, I still do not forgive you. First show true remorse for what you have done, accept that there are legitimate shitos which differ from yours, and then we can discuss forgiveness.

DaasYochid: I guess you missed something.

Everyone: Arguing with HaKatan over this is pointless. He has his misguided views and we won’t change them. After 120 when he’s punished for all the sinas chinam he’s caused, maybe he’ll finally see the error of his ways.

One note about the members of the IDF: R’ Shlomo Zalman zt”l used to go daven on Har Hertzel, because he said the graves of Israeli soldiers are kivrei tzaddikim.

mra: Not a lot. You can buy the labels at Staples for under $10, and print them yourself at home.