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This is one of those rare occasions where I agree with Joe.
The point of dedicating something is that there is a mitzvah involved, and you want it to be a zchus for someone. So if I sponsor a day of learning at my kid’s school in memory of my grandparents, the merit of the learning from that day should go towards them.
Having sponsors for things like podcasts where they’re just interviewing someone doesn’t make much sense, unless it’s purely a business sponsorship – in which case it’s basic advertising. A new caterer sponsoring a kiddush and providing the food is done in the hope that people will enjoy the food, and then shop at the store.What’s the point of this? That other kids could be a bad influence? That’s not only true in camp. It’s true in school, it’s true when it comes to kids who live nearby that your children may play with, it’s true pretty much everywhere. That’s why you research the schools and camps that you send your kids to, and choose the ones that you think are best. This isn’t a problem with camps “today” – it’s always been an issue, with everything.
Sechel: twisting a Gemara to meet your beliefs is likely apikorsis. Following the teachings of pretty much every major Rav outside of Chabad (including major Rabbonim who have paskened l’halachah that a person who believes the Rebbe is Mashiach can’t be counted towards a minyan, and wine they touch must be spilled out) is not.
Lostspark: you’ve been listening to Joseph way too much. The stuff you’re writing is falsehood, plain and simple. As for the club, do some research. There is no club promoting aveiros. There is a club that provides support for people with urges that go against the Torah, who want to still live a frum life – it’s a very tough situation, and they can use all the support they can get. That club is a good thing, and it is overseen by major Rabbonim.
As for the high-end scotch, I suggest you go to Brooklyn, Lakewood, or Toms River – I’ve heard far more discussion in shuls there about whiskey and meat boards than I have in any MO shul. If you think people in those areas don’t want TV or movies, you’re mistaken.
I was thinking about the claim that the Besht had, where he claimed to have been told Mashiach would come when everyone follows chassidus.
I now think this may be true.
I was always taught that there are 2 ways for Mashiach to come – first, we could be deserving of it, and it would arrive. Second, if we are at such a low level, Hashem would send Mashiach to “rescue” us from Galus.
I think that everyone following chassidus would fall into the second category. If everyone followed chassidus, then we’d be at such a low level that Hashem would have to rescue us from Galus.sechel: you mean the day that proved that the Rebbe couldn’t possibly be Mashiach?
GadolHadofi: Don’t forget the next question: How many gangs of Jewish kids are running around Teaneck terrorizing store owners?
HaKatan, since you are obviously a Navi, knowing exactly what Hashem was going to do, please, tell us – what is the significance of the current climate in the world, since the Oct 7th attack?
emesayid: your profile was created over 15 years ago, and this was your first ever post. Why do I have the feeling that you’re a joseph alternate account?
Even if you’re not, why should we listen to you? Your post is based on a few things:
– Your opinion on comparing R’ Mendlowitz to the Satmar Rav
– Your opinion on R’ Mendlowitz’s understanding of the Satmar Rav
– Your claim that things are now “evident” which prove the Satmar Rav was right – without any proofThe fact that you claim to be related to R’ Mendlowitz is irrelevant.
Joe, I’ve never NOT missed a kiddush club – I refuse to participate in them! If you really think they’re rare in chassidish/yeshivish minyanim, you are sadly mistaken. Or just making up things again – that’s probably more likely.
As for tuition, again, you’re making things up. You know nothing of what happens in MO schools – why would you? You’ve never sent a child to one, never mind 8 children. If you’re making 60k, then no, you’re not paying the majority of your income towards tuition. I know personally about a couple of the schools on the list above, because I have friends who send their kids there (though I do not). Tuition there, if you make 150k, is capped at 15%. If you make less than that, they assume you can’t even pay 15%, and they work with you to see what you can pay.
Stop lying so much.In any case, regarding tuition, that’s not materialism. If anything, it shows a deeper commitment to Judaism when you spend so much on a Jewish education for your children.
The shuls that have the biggest, craziest kiddushim that I’ve been to are all chassidish (meaning on a regular basis – I’m not referring to when there’s a simcha). My brother davens in a chassidish minyan, and he’s told me how pretty much every week, there is probably over $5,000 worth of liquor being consumed by the people there. No, it’s not a huge crowd of a few hundred people, it’s just a standard minyan size.
Just this past Shabbos, I was away, visiting someone. Friday night we davened at a minyan in someone’s house. After davening, they decided to have a minyan Shabbos morning due to the heat. They had a few concerns to work out – such as ensuring that there would be a minyan, having someone to lein… and their biggest concern, that they spent the most time figuring out, what will they have for Kiddush? Since this was decided on Shabbos, how could they arrange food? So each person had to say what they were going to contribute to it!
After davening on Shabbos morning, I didn’t stick around for the kiddush. But by Mincha, one of the guys starting saying loudly how the kiddush was lacking, and next week, he’d “go all out”, and would be purchasing lots of fancy foods to serve.Joe, you made a claim of $30k and you’re wrong. Admit that you lied, instead of now just saying “but it’s more expensive than Lakewood!”
You say “It is well known that MO schools don’t negotiate lower tuition prices by much, even if the family cannot afford the MO schools lowest offer.” Sorry, but it’s not well known. MO schools give scholarships just like yeshivos do, and as I said, some even have programs in place to cap tuition regardless of scholarship request. This is based on a percentage of your income, and it limits how much you pay. So it doesn’t matter if you have 3 kids or 8 kids in the school, you’d pay the same amount under these programs.
As for it being more expensive than Lakewood – you’re absolutely correct, it is. That’s because teachers in MO schools actually are certified teachers. The number of kids per class is significantly lower (I have nieces and nephews in Lakewood schools – I just heard a few days ago how my niece has 35 girls in her class, with one teacher. My kids had between 15-20 kids in their classes.) Limudei chol is taught in MO schools. There are extra-curriculars. These all add to the cost. So yes, it cost more, but you get a better education, with a more individualized approach.To debunk one of Joe’s lies, here is the tuition charged by some MO schools (showing the highest amount, as they can vary by grade – these are usually 6-8 grade):
RYNJ : $17k
Moriah: $18,870
Yavneh: $16,640
Yeshivat He’atid: $13,350
JEC: $20,100
Kushner: $21,400Most of the schools offer scholarships when needed, and some have programs to cap tuition regardless of financial need.
Joe, you are a liar, plain and simple.sechel: Learning what? Sichos of the Rebbe? How many are actually learning Gemara?
I once heard a few Chabad people “learning”. They were having a discussion about which was a bigger miracle, 3rd of Tamuz or 12-13 of Tamuz. That’s not learning.sechel: you’re correct, you don’t get me.
Sechel: No, I don’t learn the Arizal, not because I don’t hold of it (God forbid!), but because his teachings are kabbalistic, and I am not nearly on the level to learn Kabbalah. It says that one shouldn’t learn Kabbalah at a young age, and even at an older age, one needs a firm foundation in learning before venturing into it. If one does learn it without the proper foundation, it will be misused.
As for a source on the importance of Mesorah – Avos, 1:1.sechel, I believe it’s in Toldos Yakov Yosef on Chukas, and Noam Elimelech on Balak.
There are plenty of things that the Besht taught that were new. Changing things so that learning Torah was no longer the main avodah. Proclaiming the primacy of d’veykus over all else, to the point of ignoring hilchos zmanim.
As for your question of “what’s the issue of not following mesorahs”, that actually comes way closer to apikorsus than anything I’ve ever said. In Judaism, Mesorah is everything. No, the Gra did not change Mesorah.
What is Mesorah? It is the tradition that is passed down from parent to child, from Rebbe to student. If someone’s father does things which are wrong, no, you shouldn’t follow it, because his actions are not from a Mesorah. If there is something where you don’t have a Mesorah from a parent, then you follow your Rebbe. (I don’t mean a chassidic Rebbe, I mean the person who taught you Torah.)The Besht claimed that he learned his new ways from Achiyah haShiloni, and also that Mashiach told him that when the whole world followed his teachings, Mashiach would finally come. Torah was given at Har Sinai to all the Jews, because only through a mass revelation could it be truly believed. We don’t believe in someone speaking with a Navi who died thousands of years before, and coming away with a new way of serving Hashem. The ways of serving Hashem were there from Har Sinai, and were passed down through the generations. Torah doesn’t change. Not even the Besht could change it, and to believe he could is apikorsus.
The Gra didn’t make radical changes to Judaism – he continued in the Mesorah of his father and his Rabbeim. The Besht did not have a mesorah. He claimed that he learned with Achiyah haShiloni, and that’s where his ideas came from.
I’ve never learned Emek haMalech, so I can’t really comment one way or the other. Being that it predated the Besht by quite a few years (it was published in 1648, the Besht wasn’t born until 1698), I’d guess that the definition of “tzaddik” isn’t the same.
I also agree with what you quoted – you should definitely connect with a Rebbe, and gain higher understanding and revelations in Godliness. But that’s not what the Besht taught – he taught that the tzaddik has to lower himself into realms of tumah in order to lift others out. Do you not see the difference between having a Rebbe to learn from, and the claim that people are incapable of lifting themselves? A person can learn Torah on their own, and grow from it. Having a Rebbe to guide you makes it easier and quicker to grow, because he will guide you in regards to what is correct and what isn’t.Sechel, who made fun? All I said is that a belief is preposterous. Quoting Tanya to back up a chassidic belief doesn’t make sense. Get a proof from before the Besht.
sechel: arguing with someone who lived just a few hundred years ago, especially when you have someone like the Gra who actually called their teachings apikorsis, is not being an apikores. The idea of the Tzaddik being born without a yetzer hara and incapable of sinning is apikorses, because it says that there is no person who lives without sinning. We all have bechirah, even the Lubavitcher Rebbe had bechirah, and even he sinned at times.
Joe, your true colors are showing. You actually believe that Israel is dependent on the US for success.
We have Hashem. We don’t need the US. Yes, we do our hishtadlus to try and have allies, but if they turn away from Israel, we will still be fine. Hashem is protecting us.
You’d do well to remember that. After all, the Israeli soldiers know it – why don’t you?Sechel: the idea that a person can’t get to higher levels on their own without a Rebbe lifting them up in preposterous. It’s one of the main issues I have with chassidus.
Chaim, I agree that the whole idea of Daas Torah is a recent innovation. R’ Bender once bemoaned to me that people were asking their Rabbeim about things that had nothing to do with their Rebbe, and they should have been consulting experts in the field instead. As he said to me, “some people won’t blow their nose without asking their Rebbe first!”
As for R’ Chaim, people should not have been mevatel to him, at least not in every issue.
I only once went to a Rebbe for a bracha, because my Rebbe told me to go see him, and it would benefit me. I visited a different Rebbe once, only because he knew my wife’s family, and my wife asked me to go see him and mention the connection (this was while he was visiting my community once). While I was seeing him, he asked me how many children we have, and I told him 2. He asked me if we considered having more, as it would be a big bracha. I explained that we needed fertility treatments for the 2, and I’d be thrilled to have more. He then offered a bracha to me.Chaim, you’re incorrect. Litvaks always had a connection with a Rebbe, we just have a different definition of what a Rebbe is.
Litvaks look at a Rebbe as the person who teaches you Torah – usually the person’s primary teacher is referred to as his Rebbe. Chassidim look at the Rebbe with the chassidish definition – referred to as “The Tzaddik” in the teaching of the Besht. A person may have never actually met the Rebbe in his life, but since he’s a part of the chassidus, he will still claim him as his Rebbe.
In my case, as people here may have noted, I learned in Darchei Torah, and look at R’ Bender shlita as my Rebbe. There is one other Rebbe in Darchei who I am very close with, and also look at as a primary Rebbe, but I can honestly say that I am the person I am today because of R’ Bender. I don’t believe that he was born without a yetzer hara, or that he needs to descend into the levels of tumah in order to elevate his students (the Besht taught those things about the Tzaddik).Mods, was my response not approved, or did it not go through?
Square Root: great points, except for #2. Access to the Kotel doesn’t really make a difference halachically or hashkafically. Yes, it’s a holy place, but so what? It doesn’t really have any significance in halacha.
It’s not “filling a void”. Unfortunately, Chassidus draws people in because it’s “feel-good Judaism”. The mesorah of the litvaks is a true mesorah, not something that was invented just a couple hundred years ago.
Just because people are drawn to something doesn’t make it right. Look at home many Jews were nebach lost to the haskalah movement.I love how Joe is making a comparison between an Iranian who at the time was missing after an accident, and his imagined scenario of Netanyahu being captured by the enemy. How can you compare those? Yes, the Iranians called for prayers. When a Jewish person goes missing, Jews daven. Look at how many people started wearing Tzitzis and wrapping tefillin because of the war!
If Iran thought Israel killed their president, you better believe they’d be attacking!jackk, I don’t think you’ll find anything in the Torah supporting what Trump did. You may not find anything against it either. Democracy isn’t in the Torah.
The Democratic Party, however, has made several things part of their core beliefs which are 100% opposed to the Torah. I refer to same-sex marriage and abortion. Same-sex marriage is ALWAYS assur, and is yehareg v’al yaavor. It falls under the arayos aveiros, and is therefore one of the sheva mitzvos b’nei Noach, so non-Jews are obligated to follow it. Abortion, too, is one of the seven – it falls under murder. While there are cases where an abortion may be permitted (namely, where the health of the mother or another baby in a multiple pregnancy is threatened), that is not the Democratic Part’s view – they want it legalized up until birth.
Supporting the Democratic Party is against Torah values. No, the Republicans aren’t perfect, but they don’t directly go against things like the Democrats do.
To answer the OP’s question, I think Democrats vs Hamas is similar to Chanukah vs Purim. Hamas wants to kill all the Jews, they don’t care how religious we are. Democrats want to stop us from following the Torah. We are told that Chanukah was a bigger danger, because it was spiritual, not physical. The same can apply here.Small One: You always claim that there was nothing miraculous about Israel’s victory in 1967. The Ponovezher Rav wrote that there were “obvious miracles” that even blind people could see.
No doubt you don’t celebrate Purim, because the miracles that occurred then were nistarim.So Joseph, is your argument that we have a mitzvah to mock you?
Israel is a Jewish state, regardless of what you may think. Is it perfect? No, but there have been rulers who were far worse than what exists now, and it was still considered a Jewish state. Kings such as Yeravam, Menasheh, Achaz, and others, made it illegal to keep certain mitzvos. They were oved Avodah Zarah, and encouraged others to do so. Yet it was still a Jewish kingdom.
Why is the focus on the Democrats’ view of Israel here? I look at it from a different perspective – the physical threat vs the spiritual threat.
Unfortunately, I know of many Jews who frum, who were influenced by the Democrats. They now support abortion rights for all, support gay marriage, trans rights, etc. They still support Israel, but their grasp on Torah values is slipping, because of the Democratic Party.
I’ve always been taught that the spiritual threat is bigger than the physical threat. Hamas, if anything, has caused more Jews return back to Torah values. So I’d say that while Hamas may be a bigger threat here and now, Democrats are a larger threat in the long-term. Hashem will protect us from Hamas, but He allows us to make our own decisions – and with the Democrats, that includes the decisions to turn away from the Torah.HaKatan, when will you realize that not all Zionists are the same? Your claims may have been true for many of the founders of Israel in the 1940s, but it isn’t true today. Look at the number of baalei teshuva in Israel! Look at the videos of the soldiers davening, of the commanders leading their units in tefillah before they go into Gaza. Read the shailos coming in from soldiers, who want to know exactly how to conduct themselves while in active combat situations!
Most Israelis are no longer anti-religious. The dream of a Jewish homeland filled with Jews who are shomer Shabbos is alive and well! “Kochi v’otzem yadi” is barely heard anymore in the IDF – now we hear them being mekabel Ol Malchus Shamayim!The Zionist dream is in its middle stages. The establishment of the State of Israel was just one part of it, and it will ultimately lead to the fulfillment of the full dream – the arrival of Mashiach, the Bayis Shlishi, and the acceptance of Hashem by the entire world.
So no, the dream is not over. There have always been rough times in Jewish history, but as we said just a few weeks ago, “Hakadosh Baruch Hu matzileinu miyadam.” Do you think Biden’s support or lack of support affects things in the long run? We have Hashem on our side, and that’s all we need!I believe that the potential is there. It’s up to us to do what is necessary to bring him, though.
I always expect to have some broken matzos in each box, because they sell by the pound. If the whole matzos come out to 0.9 lbs, they need to add the last 0.1, which may not be a whole matzah. But the majority of each box should be whole.
A neighbor of mine told me that he bought 4 lbs of hand matzos. From the 4 lbs, he had a total of 5 matzos that were whole. He had to borrow matzos from someone else just to have enough for lechem mishna during the days and for the sedorim. That’s not ok, not at $40 per lb.
I tried some of the matzos from Ukraine this year. They were significantly cheaper, which was a big draw, as I try to only use hand matzos the entire Yom Tov. They were really thin, nice and crispy, and almost all of them were whole. Next year I’ll likely try to get all my matzos from that brand.
Joe, I don’t believe you. You’ve shown numerous times that you are not trustworthy.
Joe, there’s been no proof that the story isn’t real. I heard the same story years ago, although I forgot from whom.
During the Six Day War, when it was announced that the IDF had captured the Har Habayis, R’ Yaakov Kaminetsky went into the Beis Medrash of Torah v’Daas, made a Shehechiyanu, and recited Hallel Hagadol.
Is Joe a bigger troll than anyone else in the CR? I think that’s an obvious yes.
Is any normal person superior to a big CR troll?
Is a person who doesn’t obsess over trying to rank people superior to Joe?Avira: “a king was chosen BECAUSE of his lofty spiritual accomplishments.” While this may have been true for Shaul and Dovid, I don’t think that was the case for future kings. Future kings were chosen because they descended from Dovid. There were plenty of kings who were horrible people, yet they still held the halachik status of a king.
CTLAWYER: maybe they don’t offer it anymore, but they did when he earned it.
This argument doesn’t really accomplish anything, so I’m going to stop here.CTLAWYER: Maybe the degrees changed with time? I don’t know about that, but I do know that on Columbia’s site, it says “Henkin received a B.A. from Yeshiva University, an LL.B. from Harvard University, an L.H.D. from Yeshiva University, and an LL.D. from Columbia University. He also received an honorary J.D. from Brooklyn Law.”
Joseph, I don’t think you’ve ever changes someone’s mind, unless it was someone who thought you were an intelligent poster, who changed to realize you’re a troll.
AAQ: The Chofetz Chaim and R’ Soloveichik had sons who had PhDs. R’ Henkin had a son with a doctorate-level degree, but it was in Law, so it was an LL.D. not a PhD.
Honestly, at this point, I hope all this stuff leads to him losing support for the nomination. I’d much rather see Haley as the Republican candidate than Trump.
Eliezer, is there a reason you constantly bump your own threads?
I think it was because of the kugelator. That made all the difference. It connected to the grepslink and set off the alarm.
Avira, you said “The yatzer hora for apikorsus, however, is very strong, and we are told by many tzadikim that it will be an almost insurmountable challenge באחרית הימים.”
Do you have some sources for this?
You know, I’ve unfortunately seen many people who are faced with this today, even family members of mine. But it’s not based on Israel, it’s because of other issues. I have a sibling who fell into the trap of modern liberalism, and she told me that she can’t accept a God who says that 2 people loving each other is wrong just because of their gender. I’d say that qualifies as apikorsus, and sadly, there are many today who feel the same way she does.