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Again, akuperma, as others already said, the “zionists” you speak of are long gone. The people running Israel today are not the same as those 70 years ago.
As for the chareidi parties only looking out for Chareidim, that’s a product of the Israeli system. When a party is small, and doesn’t have a chance at being a major party (major meaning a chance at being given the mandate in an upcoming election), there’s no need for them to look at everyone. People will vote for them based on who they mostly align with, along with their major issue. For example, let’s say the chareidi parties are likely to align with Likud, but they also stand for chareidi interests. Chareidim who feel strongly on these issues, and would rather see Likud in power instead of a leftist government would vote for the chareidi parties. This would help Likud get the mandate, and also shows that a large group feels strongly about chareidi needs. Only when a party gets much larger do they need to worry about the larger issues.
People asked for the source of the Chazon Ish’s statement of two generations of full-time learning. I don’t know if it’s written anywhere, but my Rosh Yeshiva, R’ Bender shlita, once told me that the Chazon Ish said it.
akuperma: You’re wrong when you say many if not most hareidim follow the views of the Satmar Rebbe. Unless, of course, you’re just referring to Satmar chassidim when you say “many”, as there are many of them.
The leading Rabbonim in Israel do not agree with it. After all, they tell people to run for office, vote, and participate in the running of the state. Most Rabbonim in the US share the same views as the Rabbonim in Israel. The only ones who are adamantly opposed to Israel are Satmar. I’d say Neturei Karta as well, but with the Satmar chassidim going down to protest Netanyahu recently, holding up signs for the world to see one Jew protesting against another, I now lump them together.
There are many things about Sarah Schenirer which are not taught to Beis Yaakov girls.
Her original lectures were attended by both men and women.
When she got sick, she wrote in her diary, “For the first time in twenty-three years I did not daven be’tzibbur”. It seems she went to shul every day!
After she married, her husband said she was too religious for him, and divorced her.
My favorite part about it was the flyer advertising the event in Brooklyn on Monday night. They blurred out the faces of all the girls in front of the Beis Yaakov schools.
They are mostly known for giving a hechsher to many cheeses. R’ Saffra held of a kula of Rabbeinu Tam, which we usually don’t pasken according to. Someone posted online that they had emailed him about it, and his response said, “he did not hold cheese produced with microbial media to be cheese in the traditional understanding, since microbial coagulant did not exist at the time of the Shulchan Aruch. He said it is a different product, so the gezerah was not applicable to it.”
Someone else wrote that the Conservative movement didn’t even really approve of his hechsher.
The title of the video is “Chofetz Chaim Video Originally Seen Years Ago With More Footage Not Released Yet “
Someone sent me a link to a YouTube video, where the owner of the Living Torah Museum talks about the video. He says that there is more video that hasn’t yet been released, which shows the Chofetz Chaim selling his seforim. He says there is also video of R’ Shimon Shkop, but they are hesitant to release it. Why? Because the video is of a shiur he gave at RIETS, and the people who have the video feel it’s not respectful of R’ Shkop to show him teaching at RIETS.
PAA: Interesting teshuva. Feif Un once posted the following story here http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/lack-of-ashkenaz-siddurim#post-316187 (I actually met the Rebbe who told it over, and he confirmed to me that it’s true):
Some bochurim (including my Rebbe) were traveling with R’ Aharon to a simcha. On the way, they stopped at a nearby shul to daven mincha. The shul davened nusach sfard. R’ Aharon asked if he could daven for the amud, and they said yes. He walked up, and davened nusach Ashkenaz.
Afterward, one of his students asked him why he did this, if the minhag hamakom was to daven sfard. He replied, “Minhag hamakom is proper at times, but this is the proper nusach!”
cherrybim: One is viewed as a human being, and one is viewed as more than a human being. That was one of the Gra’s issues with chassidus – the deification of the Rebbe.
That may be true. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. I don’t know what the rate of growth is in Lakewood. Do you mean the growth as far as actual people, as a percentage, or both? You may be surprised at the growth in some other communities!
Another area that is growing quickly is the Far Rockaway/Five Towns area. The Bayswater neighborhood has many young people moving in, as do Woodmere and Cedarhurst.
Joseph, you say “all” the growth is in Lakewood for frum Jews. I disagree. In Teaneck, the frum Jewish population is growing by leaps and bounds. If you go a bit further South from there, you get to the Elizabeth area. There are a few communities there – Elizabeth, Hillside, Springfield, and Linden, all of which are growing. I know many people who moved to Florida. I believe the Boca area is growing nicely.
lol @ Sam Klein: “What can you reply back to Hashem by replying back to this message.”
This looks like one of those ridiculous Facebook posts I see all the time: “Only 1 in 10 people will repost this message. Show you care by posting it! If you don’t post this message to your status, it means you don’t care!”
And how do you know he’s alive now?
I had a grandson of the Chofetz Chaim as a Rebbe when I was young. We asked him about the famous picture that’s on the cover of the seforim. He said, “My mother told me, ‘He looks like a nice frum Jew – but that’s not my father!'”
Yeah, I think it’s a prank because I’m showing up as my friend Feif Un!
So who REALLY is posting?
I’m DaMoshe, if you haven’t figured it out!
Does it matter if nobody is greater? The fact remains that R’ Lichtenstein shlita is a HUGE gadol.
He was a talmud of R’ Hutner zt”l as well as R’ Soloveitchik zt”l, both of whom were from the gedolei hador. He is a well-known Rosh Yeshiva. Does it matter if he’s the best, or “just” in the top 10 or top 20? Either way, he knows more than ANYONE who posts here in the CR, and is worthy of respect.
GolemGorilla, the CEO of the company I used to work for liked to say, “If you’re buying watermelons for 2 dollars and selling it for 1 dollar, the answer is NOT buy a bigger cart!”
Rabbi Bender would not agree with Darchei being considered MO. They require black hats, velvet yarmulkas, and white shirts. I don’t know of any MO schools that require that.
R’ Bender is a visionary, who realizes that it’s unrealistic to expect boys to learn for a long time, and then be able to support a family. He makes sure the groundwork is there for when his talmidim need to go work. That should be the norm for all Jews.
Lior: I don’t know. I never knew them. My father’s father never spoke about his parents. My mother’s father spoke about his father. He was a wine merchant. I don’t know much else.
As I posted earlier in the thread, I do know that R’ Hutner zt”l went to university in Berlin, which was a hotbed of apikorsis. The Novominsker Rebbe went to Brooklyn College.
DZ, I can’t speak for charlie, but my father went to college. His father went to college. My mother went to college. Her father began going for secular education, but was interrupted by the Nazis. Is that good enough for you?
inquiring mind: Just to note, the offspring of a cross-breed is not always sterile. There have been Tigons who had their own offspring. You can look it up on Wikipedia for details, on the Tigon page.
Daya Zooger: While the income gap may be closing, that is only for those who have jobs. If you look at the unemployment numbers for January 2015, it says people with Bachelors degrees or higher have a 2.8 unemployment rate. Those with Associate’s degrees have a 5.2 rate. High school graduates with no college are at 5.4. And people who didn’t even finish high school are at 8.5.
So yes, once you find a job, you may make close to the same amount of money. But it’s far easier to find a job once you’ve graduated from college.
Without trying to give a psak, here’s my 2 cents:
I think there’s a big difference between working out as a bodybuilder, and working out just for your health. If your goal is to have huge muscles so you look good, it’s probably not a great idea. If you’re just doing it to stay healthy, I’d say not only is it allowed, it’s admirable!
I remember the following happening to me when I was in yeshiva:
Across the street from Darchei, there is a public baseball field. On Fridays in the spring, we used to go there after seder ended to play some ball. One Friday, I had changed into a T-shirt and had my glove in my hand, and was walking out from the yeshiva campus towards the field. Rebbetzin Reisman (the wife of R’ Yaakov Reisman, from the Agudah of Long Island) who was picking up her children, stopped me and told me, “I’m so happy to see you going to play ball! My husband always says that yeshiva bachurim need to remember their health! They need to take some time to exercise, even if it means stopping to learn for a little bit! Your health is more important!”
When it comes to tzedakah, my first priority is the school my kids attend. I’ll be honest. Many times I can’t afford the full tuition payments, and the school is extremely nice to us, and helps us with a scholarship. So when I have any extra money, I don’t give it to someone in kollel. I give it to the school.
If I have a lot of extra tzedakah money, I also give to Bonei Olam. I’ve written about the fertility treatments my wife and I went through. Bonei Olam was a tremendous help to us. I try to support them.
There’s a tzedakah organization which handles almost every need within my community, whether it’s help with medical bills, food, rent/mortgage, or anything else. I give them money when I can.
I also try to support the yeshiva I attended, Darchei Torah.
So supporting someone in kollel is not even really on the radar for me. I think my community comes first, then comes places I am somewhat beholden to. I’d then possibly consider a kollel. Unfortunately, right now, I don’t have that much money to give.
Yes, and I don’t like it much. The cookie dough is overpowered by the vanilla ice cream.
When I was younger, my mother would buy cookie dough ice cream. I’d melt it then eat just the cookie dough pieces.
The best is to eat the dough before the cookies are baked. Chocolate chip cookie dough is delicious!
Torah learning is only one of three things which uphold the world. It’s straight out in a Mishna.
Everyone knows the joke – Torah, avodah, and gemillas chassadim. The husband learns, the wife works, and the parents give gemillas chassadim.
My shul has a base amount per family, plus a small amount per child. My membership this year came out to about $1,200.
The membership doesn’t just cover seats. They have youth groups every Shabbos and Yom Tov during Shacharis, where the youth leaders teach the children parts of Shabbos davening and discuss the parshah with them, so the parents can daven without being disturbed. There are groups for the kids on Shabbos afternoon. There is a kiddush and Seudah Shlishi in shul every week. The membership dues cover the bills the shul has.
DY, I’m not saying it’s the right thing to do. I’m just looking at what may realistically happen.
I think another issue that can come from letters like this is that people will lose their trust in their Rabbonim. When a Rav tells you don’t go to school, it’s better to be hungry, would you want to follow him, or find another Rav?
R’ Hutner zt”l had a degree.
The Novominsker Rebbe went to Brooklyn College.
My Rosh Yeshiva’s father, R’ Dovid Bender zt”l had a degree in Accounting.
R’ Hutner and R’ Shraga Feivel Mendlowitz were going to open a joint yeshiva/college, but R’ Aharon Kotler insisted they abandon their plan.
First off, I’d like to know where the letter was published. I haven’t found it on any other site yet.
If it proves to be real, I will make sure not to donate a penny to his yeshiva. After all, he wouldn’t want to take money I earned through going to college!
zahavasdad, who was discouraging her?
DY: Just because someone works doesn’t mean they don’t learn! I work full time. I also have a chavrusah every night, and attend other shiurim throughout the week. I don’t consider myself an ama’aretz.
ajwc: I’m not putting it down. I’m just saying that pushing people to do that, and saying it’s the only “proper” choice to make, is just wrong.
I have a cousin whose husband sits and learns all day. She works hard, but doesn’t make enough to support the family, so they rely on help from others.
My wife once asked her, “Doesn’t it get hard? Don’t you sometimes want your husband to help out financially?” She replied, “Oh, no! The greatest gift I can give him is to work hard all day so he can sit and learn! That’s the purpose of a good wife, to make sure her husband learns all day! It’s my greatest joy to give him that!”
Honestly, a response like that (and the manner in which she said it), sounded like a cult follower.
And your point is???
gavra: Yes, Darchei has a vocational school. However, it’s not for everyone. It’s more for the boys who aren’t doing well in the General Studies department, and likely wouldn’t do well with a college education. (At least that’s how it was when I learned there.) For the boys who do well academically, they offer many different AP courses, so the boys can get a head-start on college, and get accepted to prestigious schools. I actually passed a bunch of AP exams, and got a huge academic scholarship based on that (along with my grades and SAT scores.)
No, he doesn’t think the entire Lakewood is a mistake. He just acknowledges that there are many problems with the system as it exists, and doesn’t have answers for fixing it.
I can tell you that Rabbi Bender is different than most Roshei Yeshiva today. When I was in Darchei, he actually encouraged me to go to college. He told me, “You’re not cut out to sit and learn! Go to college, so that you’ll be able to support a family.” R’ Altusky (the Rosh Yeshiva who gives the highest shiur in Darchei)tried to convince me otherwise.
I once asked R’ Bender about why we have the kollel system we have today – it hadn’t existed before! He told me that after the Holocaust, the Chazon Ish said we needed to rebuild. Many Rabbonim had been lost, and we needed a foundation of Rabbonim to exist as frum Jews. He said we should encourage full time learning so we could have that again. He said that should happen for 3 generations, and then we’d have what we need. We could then go back to the way things were, with most people working to support a family, and only the elite learning full time.
But, R’ Bender said, that message wasn’t publicized. Full time learning was pushed, and the reason wasn’t explained why. He said it’s about time to switch back (and he told me this over 10 years ago!), but people have had it drilled into them that full time learning is the only way to go. They think it would be terrible to switch back to the way things were for centuries!
He told me it’s a big problem, and he doesn’t have the answer for it. His words were, “I try to help my bachurim. What can I do with everyone else?”
I said I didn’t want to go into details.
I quickly skimmed through this thread, and now want to add my 2 cents.
I agree with some posters who said that people come back from yeshiva/seminary brainwashed into thinking a kollel lifestyle is the only option that is “right”. I have no problem with someone sitting and learning – with a few caveats. First, they should come to that choice on their own, not be pushed into it. Second, the husband MUST have some means of supporting a family when the time comes.
In the Ketubah, it says the husband will provide for his wife. Yes, the wife can choose to work so the husband can learn. But what happens if she decides it’s too much for her, and needs him to work? Does the husband then decide to go to school for a degree? You’re then looking at college bills when you’re already paying rent/mortgage, for diapers (possibly), food for a family, and possibly even tuitions! Not to mention that the schooling can take a few years! If a husband doesn’t fulfill the ketubah, the wife has the right to ask for a divorce! Is that what we want?
A man should have the means to support a family. Once he has that in hand, he can go learn if he wants. But he needs something to fall back on!
A good friend of mine learned in kollel for a number of years, until his wife told him, “I’m working 2 jobs, we have 3 kids, and I’m burned out. It’s time for you to help out!” He immediately enrolled in school for the next semester, and found a job in the meantime. The job was ok, it brought in some money, but not enough – it was supposed to help him out while he was in school. But you know what? He was paying a mortgage, 2 tuitions, and day care. It wasn’t enough. He went to our Rosh Yeshiva, R’ Bender shlita, and asked him, “Why didn’t you warn us? Why didn’t you tell us how hard it would be? We were told to sit and learn in kollel, that it’s the best option. Now look where I am! My wife is ready to have a nervous breakdown, I’m not far behind, and I have 2 years before I finish my degree! You need to tell people the reality of what a kollel life is like!”
R’ Bender agreed with him, and told him it’s one of the biggest problems in the yeshiva world today – that they purposely don’t tell the bachurim that, for fear of scaring them away from the kollel life.
Just to note, R’ Bender is amazing at helping out these families. I won’t go into details, but he provides tremendous assistance to the people in his kollel, when they decide it’s time to go to school so they can support their families.
Rema, if you spent the night posting here on the CR, is that the same bittul Torah as watching the Super Bowl?
Rema711, let me explain to you what a blood libel was/is:
They mostly took place in Europe, although there were some in other areas. Christian residents wanted a reason to kill Jews. They would kill a Christian child (or take one who had died), and claim the Jews had killed it. They claimed it was done so the Jews could use the blood to make matzos with. This resulted in a mob which would usually go to the Jewish areas of the town/city, and begin butchering the Jews who lived there.
Obviously, Jews don’t use blood to make matzos, and they didn’t kill the child. So the entire story was fabricated. If you look up the definition of the word “libel”, you’ll see something like this:
“a published false statement that is damaging to a person’s reputation”
To say that constantly reporting on abuse in the Jewish community is a blood libel is not true. It may be biased reporting. It may be antisemitism (although I don’t believe it is). But it’s definitely not a libel.
If anything, the libel in the abuse cases is when many Jewish communities blame the victims, and claim they’re making up stories to get someone in trouble! That would be a libel. In fact, I believe that’s the reason it gets reported on so much. It’s not as much the abuse itself as the attempts to cover it up. They hold rallies to raise funds for the abuser. The victims are ostracized. That’s why so much is written about it. When there are cases where everyone cooperates, almost nothing is written about it.
zahavasdad, I wouldn’t say that the food forced the person OTD. I’d say the father did, because he made Shabbos into something the kid didn’t like.
I don’t think there’s a higher OTD rate among the “more modern” Jews. I believe it’s a myth made up to stop people from thinking it’s ok to be Modern Orthodox.
I like how he writes, “even if the pizza has a reliable hechsher certification.” Why is that an “even”? If it doesn’t have it, you shouldn’t be eating it any day of the week!
When I was in Darchei Torah, the yeshiva used to order pizza for the melava malka each week. They also usually had leftovers from Shabbos. So they’d use one side of the dining room for pizza, and on the other side, they had the fleishig stuff. Some people would have pizza, wait a bit, then go have some cholent and kishka.
When I had my bar mitzvah, most people did not get Borsalinos. They cost way more than the other hats out there. Stetsons were popular, as were Roches. If you got a Borsalino, you were a big deal!
I remember that when I was about 17, one store had a huge sale on Borsalinos. My father bought one for himself. It was the first time he had a Borsalino. Until then, he had a Stetson Key Club.
Rema711, how can you say it’s a blood libel? Yes, they report on abuse in the frum community, but only when it’s actually happening. The blood libels were 100% false, usually made up by Christians as an excuse to attack Jews.
The usual reason abuse in the frum community gets reported on so much is because of the attempts to cover it up, and the rallying around the abuser.
I know of a few cases of abuse where it wasn’t covered up, and everyone cooperated with the police. Guess what? There was a small article about it once, and that was it. Never another word about it.
Regarding regular coffee from Starbucks, and the cRc’s opinion to try and avoid it: I heard a shiur a few years ago on the topic. It seems it’s actually a machlokes between the cRc and the OU on whether the plain coffee is ok. The cRc says it’s better to avoid, the OU says it’s perfectly fine. I asked the Rav who we should follow. His response was, “You live on the East coast, not in Chicago, so you should probably follow the OU. Those in Chicago should probably follow the cRc.”
Rosenblatt was a great chazzan, and was also a good frum Jew. Kvartin was also a great chazzan, but was not really frum.
I once heard that someone asked, “Who is better, Rosenblatt or Kvartin?” The response was, “On Rosh Hashanah, Rosenblatt is better. On Yom Kippur, Kvartin is better, because he drank some water to loosen his throat while Rosenblatt didn’t.”
So the question was asked, “If Kvartin sounds better on Yom Kippur, why does Rosenblatt get paid more?” The response was, “Because he davens 2 shemoneh esreis, one quiet, and one loud. Kvartin only davens one, so he gets paid less.”