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I live on a side street and when I woke up this morning it had been plowed.
Wolf, would you still have your question if you told a customer that an item was milchig causing him not to purchase it?
Winny1,
I don’t think anyone needs the store owners permission to accurately describe a product being sold.
Wolf,
In case it wasn’t obvious where I stand here, I think that besides having done the right thing (which you already “admitted” to), you owe nothing to the owner, even as a “lifnim m’shuras hadin”.
Giving the owner money, I think, would not be “tzedakah” as ItsJustMyOpinion (the English version of my screen name) suggested, rather, a present.
Had your information about the cones containing gluten been inaccurate, you might have a shaila.
GAW,
Are you thinking what I’m thinking, that it’s a bunch of yeshiva bochurim in the same dorm using the same computer and IP address?
One point against that theory; they might have used it as a defense.
Wolf,
OK, let’s add one caveat to my scenario; he will not be home before the ice cream will melt. Would you then have the same question?
DY
Wolf,
If you were in the store and a customer asked you if a particular flavor was milchig (he was fleishig) and you answered in the affirmative, causing him to leave, would you have the same question?
DY
Popa,
Do you mean through the loops (i.e like apushatayid)?
Were they homeless or travelers?
I sent this question t o a well known halacha institute. This is how I worded the question:
Kvod Horav,
When is one obilgated to give a tip (i.e. waiter, delivery, camp
counselor) and when is it optional?
Thanks,
(name)
This is the answer I received:
(name),
Thank you so much for contacting us with this interesting inquiry. The answer to your inquiry is that generally one is not obligated to give a tip. However, one must be mindful of two things. In some circumstances a “tip” is part of the employee’s salary (camp counselor or waiter) and as such it should be paid the same as their salary. Additionally, one must be mindful of the potential chillul Hashem that could result if one does not properly tip an employee.
Hatzlacha Rabba,
—
(name of Rov)
(name of institute)
Obviously, consult you own posek, but it seems to me that it would be agreed upon by most.
From Be’er Mayim Chaim (a Google group:
THE LITTLE LEAFwell known teaching of the Baal
Shem Tov, founder of the Chassidic movement, and about how Divine
Providence extends over every
created entity.This translation was prepared by a resident of Tsfat for the album,
Avraham Fried Sings
Yiddish Gems.A tree stands, tall and high,
Branches reaching for the sky;
A little leaf, without a sound
A tzaddik who is passing by
Stops and asks the little leaf, Why?
What made you drop from your abode
And lie here in the road?I am not the authority
The twig I was on gave a sudden shake
It was more than I could take.
Twig, twig, O authority,
Perhaps you can explain to me
Why you gave a sudden shake,
More than the leaf could take?I am not the authority;
The wind gave a sudden whoosh
And blew the little leaf loose.
Wind, wind, O authority,
Perhaps you can explain to me,
Why you gave a sudden whoosh
And blew the little leaf loose?I am not the authority;
My angel told me what to do,
So with all my might I blew.
Angel, angel, O authority,
Perhaps you an explain to me,
Why you told the wind what to do,
And mightily it blew?I am not the authority;
The Creator of me and you
Told me what to do.
Creator, Creator, O Authority,
Perhaps you can explain to me,
Why the little leaf is shaken free
And falls down from its tree?
The Creator reveals His inner plan
And makes it known to man;
Take the little leaf in your hand,
And you will understand.
See the worm lying there,
He was suffering and in despair,
He was up there on the tree
Breathing heavily,
The rays of the sun were so intense
His discomfort was immense.The sun is roasting me!
So I commanded the angel right away
To send the wind along its way
And the twig began to sway
And the little leaf was torn away,
And so the sequence was complete,
Shielding the worm from burning heat,
And for the tiny worm,
Sleep was never so sweetHippopotomonstrosesquipedaliophobia means the fear of long words.
Oomis,
You’re right that the discussion turned away from the OP, but it is very relevant to the title, “Letting people bring food into your home”. Whether or not you can use food prepared in someone’s pots if you trust them but don’t eat all of the foods they do is a worthy topic on its own.
mdd,
I hope you can still be friends 🙂
ItcheSrulik,
“it’s pretty hard to come up with a case where the pot treifs the food by accident, especially with milchigs.”
I’m not sure why it’s so hard to come up with a case; a cholov acu”m pot would “treif” any food subsequently cooked in it (within 24 hours).
What is Rav Belsky’s reason? It might be only because stam keilim einom b’nei yomon; that would probably only apply if you can’t ask. You could probably ask your neighbor.
Hello99,
You’re right, but wouldn’t it depend on whether it’s min b’she’eino mino? Also, some poskim might take into account the rishonim who hold it’s even d’rabbonon in a case of mim b’mino, as a “snif”.
Nice to hear from you again!
Real Brisker,
Please see ????? ??? ??”? ?”? ???? ?”? at the beginning of the ?????. Let me know what you think.
“Daas Yochid: There are many poskim who are lenient about blios of Cholov “stam” because the etzem food is a machlokes.”
I wouldn’t be surprised, I just want to know who (and why; I would guess because ta’am k’ikor is d’rabbonon).
A responsible hashgocha would stay on top of which products’ status have changed and would then take appropriate action. This monitoring can be done off site; hashgocha temidis would still not be required.
Again, I’m not saying that this is always done, just that the large number of certified products does not have to imply poor supervision.
When a post is removed, all post which were in response to the removed post should either be removed, or, better yet, noted as a response to a deleted post.
ItcheSrulik,
You say it’s a machlokes. I know that the R’ma in Y.D. 115 says that cholov akum makes keilim ossur. For someone who treats today’s milk as cholov akum, if the keilim are bnei yomon, they would pose a problem.
Of course, how to treat today’s milk in the USA is a machlokes, but but we are talking about someone who is machmir.
Is there someone who disagrees with the R’ma or says that keilim are more lenient when the food is a machlokes?
Heinz Ketchup is a good example of why a hashgocha can certify so many products. It is essentially something which needs little supervision; as long as they are consistent in the ingredients they use (they presumably are because they want every bottle of ketchup to taste the same) and the OU has ensured that they are fine, there is no requirement for a full time mashgiach. They probably don’t use that equipment for anything other than ketchup.
Whether or not ant particular hashgocha is stretched too thin is definitely an important consideration; I’m merely pointing out that it is not impossible to responsibly give hashgocha on hundreds of thousands of products.
If you live near a Radio Shack, try there.
eclipse,
Actually, I thought you meant keep as in “still have”.
Oomis,
Of course all types of people are unfortunately nichshal in this difficult area. Which is precisely why the Shulchan Aruch says that in this area we need extreme caution; he says “m’od m’od”. Even if we disagree about which precautions are necessary and which are excessive, you shouldn’t dismiss the idea of separate seating with a “who cares”!
BTW, tho OP did a good job of stirring up a discussion out of nothing! 🙂
I mostly agree with you, except for two points (and I’m nitpicking):
1) a hashgocha which is meikil on everything will have a market; there are always people who see a kosher symbol and that’s enough for them. There are two I can think of off hand, but I won’t mention by name.
2) I don’t only have one goal in my kitchen, otherwise I would not buy any processed foods and I would do my own shechita or hire a private shochet. But the balance is different than a commercial establishment (food service or packaged goods). I (hopefully) am more focused on kashrus relative to money and convenience than they are, which is really the essence of my point.
Health – lucky you (actually, smart you)!
I remember hearing that one of the gedolim was against playing the lottery (I assume on a regular basis) because it can lead to an unhealthy attitude (no pun intended) about finances.
apushatayid,
You are correct, but I thought the discussion had digressed somewhat since checking lettuce was mentioned. Bagged lettuce could be washed or greenhouse grown, and there is a difference between romaine and iceberg. The checking afterward is just random sampling to ensure that the process was successful at preventing/removing bugs. I assumed that the comparison between checking at home and by a mashgiach was referring to a food service establishment.
My point remains the same; although in some areas, hashgochos are more machmir than individuals, in many areas (more, I believe), they employ kulos which many people would prefer not to.
eclipse: There are many guys under 90 who don’t hurt people either. May you find a really nice one soon!
By the way, you say “Midos are the only thing you get to keep ’til the end, for better or for worse.:)” a beautiful sentiment, but I assume you mean all mitzvos!
umm:
I don’t think anyone here is taking this literally; I think before a big lottery, many people fantasize about what to do with the money.
I don’t own a greenhouse. But that’s beside the point; I am not actually machmir on every single thing on my list, I’m just making a point that there are many kulos which the kashrus agencies use which many individuals don’t. I don’t deny that in some areas commercial products might be superior. But I will point out that the level of supervision in my home is superior!
I don’t know you personally (at least I don’t think so!) but I would probably be more comfortable eating in your home than in many commercial establishments.
“If we are Shomrei Shabbos and Kashrus, who CARES if we sit mixed at a simcha?”
HKB”H. Because arayos is also in the Torah (with extra precautions).
Al Gore made them all up.
Y.W. Editor – Yeshiva World!
“kashrus agencies rely on many kulos that you would never use in your home”
This is false.
You are mistaken, in fact the opposite is more correct.
It most likely depends on the individual. For someone who is makpid on cholov yisroel, or pas yisroel, or hashgocha temidis on tuna (or salmon), or bishul yisroel on potato chips, or worms in fish, or non – surgical cows for milk, or heter mechira on Israeli produce, or oil produced in a plant not used for animal fats, or “chassidishe” shechita, or (need I continue?)…
some the national hechsherim would definitely use kulos that he or she would not.
Answer: I’m sorry, I have a very poor vocabulary; what’s a shortcoming?
Buy a copy of Ahavas Chesed; if you read you will find that your assumption is wrong and that you can give more than 20%:
a) since you have osher muflog
b) even if not, to support Torah
“On a train in the rain?”
On a day we lain (just using my brain, though I’m a bit insane).
I have heard that in situations where tipping is expected (such as waiters), it becomes required in halacha. Check with your posek for guidelines.
haros,
If you don’t mind, can you please tell me where that t’shuvah is so that I can look it up?
CharliHall: “Chazal didn’t see gambling as a productive enterprise so they pasuled any professional gambler for eidus.”
Which, seemingly would not apply to buying a lottery ticket, since Chazal were referring to someone whose occupation was gambling, not the occasional gambler. As for the reason given by klach of stealing, as yitayningwut and frumladygit pointed out, there would not be an issue with a lottery ticket.
I like Wolf’s approach; once in a while when the pot’s big.
Wolf,
I think you missed Mod 80’s point – personal preference *does* matter, but for someone on a high madreiga, the chesbon can be more complex. Meanwhile, for simple folks like me, (and I guess you,) B’TEIAVON! (But even we can thank Hashem for the delicious food!)
BTW, my favorite sandwich: steak sandwich, hold the bread!
MII:
You might have a hard time getting responses on this; people won’t want to identify themselves by the bungalow colony they spend their summers in (I hope I’m wrong). Good luck!
Wolf,
If you don’t drink coffee, what are you doing in the coffee room? 🙂
(sorry, couldn’t resist)
Bezalel,
The word gender has more than one meaning.
WIY,
I agree that it would be odd not to know who he sold it to, but if he only checked them, it would make more sense.
Some sofrim put on a sticker when they check tefillin. It would make more sense, then, that there are no records.
Wolf,
I have no idea what the odds are that they were stolen as opposed to left on the subway; my point is that this should be publicized to anyone who lost his tefillin anywhere because it is a possibility.
BUMP!
It’s possible that these tefillin were stolen (anywhere) and discarded by the thief on the subway, in which case the owner would have no way to identify which line they were on.
Whoever belongs to a local shul email list, please post this.
For me, it’s been worth it. It might depend on how much storage space you have. Why not give it a shot? Within a year, membership is refundable!