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??? ?? ?????? ??? ???????
?? ?? ???
(Some of these posts reminded me of that line.)
???? ?????? ????? ???? ??? ????? ????? ?????
????? ????
Smartcookie, you had me in stitches. Sew far, yours was the best pun in the whole thread.
What do you call a meat thief? A hamburglar (from Shluffy Bokervekker).
Don’t hit your head on the chandelier; you’ll become lightheaded.
DY what exectly almost happend to you?
I was almost forced to clean someone’s house once a week because I used function X. (I said a joke and almost everyone got it. 🙂 )
Aries,
In most cases, it says not to copy for others.
deiezooger,
Explain what?
canine,
True.
Let me tell you of a psak I once heard from reb elyashiv shlita. He said… Oh no! Silly me, thats my identity blown now. That was careless of me. You must all know who I am now. I’m going. There’s just no privacy nowadays
You should have deleted tat post right away. Now it’s too late.
Do they clean it together with the coffee machines?
I heard they do, but are considering stopping because it’s getting expensive to hire a plumber everyday.
DY, you cant fight success! Over the years, Ive heard of certain people giving Brachos for certain things and their success rate is unbelievable.
I was addressing pba, l’shitaso. There’s no question that the right bracha from the right person can help. (Although I don’t know who the OP was referring to.)
No, I’m drinking from the toilet.
So the issur you’re being oiver on is not b’heimah t’meiah or gezel aku”m, but rather, bal t’shaktzu.
despite what many here say, non jewish music is not all bad. There are many mant great non-jewish songs
Okay, but how are you supposed to know what’s clean unless you listen to all of it, including the bad stuff, until you figure it out?
??? ?????? ?????
So you’re drinking bottled water but not paying for it?
and im not listening to inapropriate music!
What are you listening to?
you dont sound like the type, that if i DO tell you what im listening to, you would no what im talkin bout, so i dont see a point in saying.
My understanding is that the vast majority of today’s secular music has inappropriate lyrics. If you won’t say which artist(s) you listen to, I can’t argue the point, but if you would, I could do research, and, I think, most likely find that much of it is not appropriate.
Daas Yochid, care to elaborate? What issurim are there?
To clarify, I am referring to inappropriate lyrics, which I assume you were talking about since you were distinguishing between men and women.
See Shulchan Aruch O”C 307 16 where no distinction is made between men and women, and for further clarification, Igros Moshe Even Haezer V0l. 1 69, where R’ Moshe says that there are two issurim involved with hirhur; “v’nishmarta”, which applies only to men, and “acharei eineichem” which applies to women as well.
Rav Moshe paskened (Igros Moshe, OC 1:111) that it is forbidden to wear a watch in a reshus harabim on Shabbos.
Check again.
neek: Halachicly, I do not believe there is anything wrong with a girl listening to non-jewsih to music.
Sure there is, although there are more issurim for a man.
rb,
It’s one reason. If I say I heard a psak from a certain rov, you would assume that I have a relationship with that rov, or possibly that I daven in his shul. That would give a clue to my identity.
???? ?? ?? ????? ???? ??????
I was tought to say “MODA ani l’fanecha” in the morning instead of “mode ani”
That is quoted in the name of Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach ZT”L in Halichos Shlomo.
Imagine if someone put something there to the effect of “and if you use function X of this software [which is perfectly permitted by law] the whole license turns into a personal services contract for which you have to come and clean my house for one day for every week you’ve owned the software.”
That happened to me once. Luckily, they picked Saturday and I was able to get off based on religious observance. 🙂
and im not listening to inapropriate music!
What are you listening to?
I think it’s fair for a poster to not name his source when he feels it might compromise his anonymity. It’s equally fair for any CR reader to take anything posted (even if the source is named) with a huge mound of salt, unless independently verified. I include anything which I post (although I do try to be accurate).
BTW, I heard from a reliable source (my browser’s spell check) that the word is spelled r e l i a b l e. 🙂
So, what they’re doing is saying that if you bought a CD a year ago and make a copy now that they can ask you for $36000+? I’d like to see that stand up in any court.
I assume you include a bais din. I tend to agree with you, although I can’t articulate why; my best guess would be because we could safely assume that the buyer never accepted that condition seriously.
I don’t know if marbehshalom will see this, but ???? ????? ????? has nothing to do with whether something was expressed in a way likely to be understood.
I hope his decision to leave the CR will be marbeh shalom.
I don’t know why the first was closed, but it was cute to see
[closed] closed topic.
Wolf,
??? ???? ??? ??? ?? ?”? ?? ??????? ??????, ??? ??? ?? ??????? ??? $100 ? ???, ?????? ?? ???? ?? ??????
My understanding of that text is as follows (anyone whose Yiddish is better than mine please correct me):
And if someone did, chas v’shalom, copy, which is theft, then it’s (retroactively – DY) a rental at the rate of $100 a day, on condition not to copy.
Aries,
When I called Aderet, they told me that most artists do allow one copy for your own use. Most lease agreements only prohibit anything which facilitates copying for others. Only some specific artists do not allow even a copy for oneself. i don’t think you have to assume it’s a problem unless it specifically states it (but of course ask your rov).
Most of this discussion, in which I opined that even copying for yourself would be proscribed by the rental agreement, is only relevant in those exceptional cases.
I wouldn’t blame Aderet, it’s up to the individual artist, Aderet is just going along with their wishes.
I will repeat that I am not at all involved in the music industry (except as a consumer), but I would hate for my comments to infringe on anyone’s enjoyment or cause a loss to Aderet.
marbehshalom,
To answer your question about the buyer not seeing it on the cover, I would say that it might depend on where you bought it and the arrangement with Aderet. If it was bought at Eichler’s (just using the example you used) and, in fact, Eichler’s actually rented it, it probably could not be subsequently sold. If it was bought at Mostly Music which is owned by Aderet, then it’s an interesting shaila, which I think would require the shikul hadaas of a dayan to determine if it’s reasonable to expect the buyer to either see it on the jacket, or know that it’s common for CDs to be rented.
If it’s determined that the buyer was not expected to know, then, back to Eichler’s, it would be the store’s fault for not explaining to the customer that it’s a rental. Then another determination might have to be made if the difference is significant enough to render the transaction a mekach taos, allowing the customer to return it for a refund if he so desires.
So the made the new commercial with the added first line.
What’s wrong with that sentence? 🙂
Then why the proliferation of secular law suits amongst the very frum; individuals as well as mosdos.
A big avla.
AZ,
I knew you were going there.
It might be ????? if it’s still available for free.
in general we would consider even one minute to fall under the rubric of chatzi shiur assur min hatorah
Yes, but there are exceptions, such as ???? ??’ ???? on ???. I don’t know that this isn’t the same, since there’s a specific reason for the ?????; it’s the time it takes to be ???? the ????? which ???? is a ??? for. (???? ??’ ???? on ??? is less than the ????? ????.)
Eman/mike: who are the “not good” boys marrying?
Often, no one, which is why it is relevant to the “shidduch crises”.
Your analysis is irrelevant to the question of why we have so many older single girls and so few older single boys.
That’s true. But if some of those “few” older single boys (and there are still plenty of them, just not in proportion to the girls) would get married, an equal number of girls would get married as well.
As far as a solution, that’s the point of the NASI project.
Tums,
When halacha and secular law conflict in dinei momonus, halacha is controlling.
Of course, but it doesn’t have to be a conflict. My thinking is as follows (and I really don’t know if there’s any validity to this at all):
If fair usage laws do not allow someone the right to sell a CD without the ability to use it “fairly”, such as copying for personal use, then maybe halacha will therefore invalidate that part of the “sale”.
Does this rental hocus pocus hold up in an American courtroom? If not, why not?
I don’t know, but I believe software is licensed, not purchased, so I don’t see why it can’t work for music (but I’m not a legal expert).
And does dina d’malchusa apply?
I wonder the same thing (I’m not a halacha expert). If so, then it should also be okay to use someone else’s tune (the royalties are pennies per copy sold which is usually insignificant in the Jewish music market; they would be chayav, but the amount would be small).
marbehshalom, (I like the screen name, BTW)
As evident in the ?”? (and others as well), the reason something would not be ???? ????? ????? is if there would seem to be a reason to assume that the transaction was being conducted despite the earlier limitation beind present, the specific reason being the receipt of money. That is irrelevant here.
Regarding your point about most people being unaware of the rental on the jacket, that’s debatable, but nevertheless irrelevant.
If someone made a verbal condition in a barely audible voice, but the buyer punkt heard it, would it be ???
I know that R’ Shlomo used to voice his displeasure all the time
That would be years ago.
I heard that this was a problem years ago, but not any more. I’m not on the inside, maybe you’re right. Is this an issue with regular, full length song types of albums, or just with kuzitz and chasunah type compilation albums?
I have a feeling that this thread is getting too close and too hot and may close down soon.
Why?
Anyway, there may be some technical halachic loopholes as Daas Yochid indicated, but how can one take the warning seriously when what is good for the goose is not good for the gander?
First of all, no hypocrisy has been proven; who says they don’t get permission from the composers? Secondly, I would hope that the issur of g’neiva should be enough to take it seriously.
That sugya is dealing with retracting the sale; this case is dealing with a different transaction structure than normal i.e. rental vs. sale.
the sugya discusses many different cases in all different scenarios i. i seeno reason why this case is any different
See ?”? ?????? ??. ???? ???”? ??”? ??? ??? ???? ?????.
This would be ???? ?????, not ???? ?????.
devorim sheblev is void and does not need any retraction. there is absolutely no chalos.
I’m not sure what you mean. What I’m trying to say is that it’s an ???? ????? ????? which makes it not considered ????? ????. See earlier in that same ?”?.
Regardless of ?’ ???? ???’s ????? that it’s not a ?????, that’s only ???? when we consider it ????? ????.
Would it also be g’neiva to take someone’s tune without permission and use it as your own, and then put out a violation order if it’s copied?
Interesting (and relevant) question.
You’re now discussing g’neiva of “intellectual property”. As I mentioned earlier, there is discussion in the poskim about such a concept, although the mekor is unclear.
Assuming that there is g’neiva of “intellectual property”, the fact that a CD producer “stole” someone’s tune, and then produced a CD with an order not to copy it, might make him a hypocrite, but I don’t think it would make it mutar to copy it. The producer, by having it sung, and the music arranged and performed, made a significant change to the original tune, and has added “intellectual value” to the property (and possibly avoided hasogas g’vul in the process).
By secular law, I’m told, one can use a previously recorded tune in a new production (it’s referred to as a “cover”) but must pay royalties.
also a rental means that after a certain time period,it must be returned. can aderet demand return?>
Yes, in theory. The longer version of the agreement (although I’m not sure if they are all the same) says that they can demand a return of the original CD after a 20 year extension (total of 40 years) but only if they personally demand it. So it definitely won’t happen.
Regarding your other post, I will bl”n look up the Birchas Shmuel. I didn’t notice your post because it was put in before my response to Tums so my name showed up as “last response”.
You still haven’t responded to my point that it’s not b’lev because it’s on the CD jacket at the time of the transaction, nor to my proof from the S”ma.
In any event i think we are not disagreeing… and the solution revolves aroudn closing the age gap in the early dating years.
I agree, and of course even 1% would be too large a difference, and even one Jewish girl unable to marry is a tragedy; I just (incorrectly) thought that you were downplaying how much the ratio drastically increases as a particular age group grows older.
AZ:
They don’t start out with a “vast” difference, only about 10-12% (about 3% increase in population each successive, younger “grade” is the number I’ve heard).
Since most boys get married, and rather quickly, as you say, the ratio of girls to boys increases as more people from that age group get married.
For example, if there were 100 boys starting in shidduchim and 90 girls, and within two years, 90 boys got married, that would leave 10 single boys and 20 single girls, a much higher ratio than it started with. The numbers are actually much bigger than that, and that’s just from one year’s sample.
The result is that despite the fact that most boys get married quickly, there are, unfortunately, plenty of older single boys, and by this time, a vastly larger number of girls.
Among these older singles, many have difficulty getting married, some because of the fact that they are burnt out, and some for inherent reasons, which is why they became older singles in the first place. Whatever the reason, any boy who doesn’t get married exacerbates the problem, as Oomis said.
The Baruch Levine CD, Touched by a Niggun , is similar to some of the Abie Rotenberg (Journeys) material (and that’s a big compliment).
Other ideas for a heartzige story song; Shwekey’s Sh’ma, Moshe Yess’s Yosef My Son, and a similar one, Avraham Fried’s The Return.