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I think it’s clearly a sh’tar, for two reasons:
1. You can’t spend it.
2. It’s clearly a document instructing your document to pay the named person the specified amount.
The Wolf
I would think so too, but apparently, it’s not so simple, because point #1 is not so simple – checks can sometimes be passed from person to person until finally cashed.
My BIL had a shaila – a check he issued, for several hundred dollars, was never cashed. The person he gave it to said he passed it along. He was told (IIRC) that there’s nothing to do about it because the person he gave it to used it as $ so deserves no compensation, and anyone who subsequently received it would need to contact him (my BIL).
The bit about Fetter Shmiel,
does not belong in a Purim shpiel.
Gezel Akum’s stealing money,
something which is not so funny.
600kilo, you make me nauseous.
Of zekts un neintziger I would be cautious.
It’s really awful, to be frank,
I’d rather have Eau de Javel Blanc de Blancs!
???? ??? ?? ?????
How I wish that I could be somebody…
Probably not.
What is this relevant to?
Your point about today’s finances being run differently is fascinating; we can discuss the halachic status of a check just as easily. Is it considered money, or a “shtar”? Very relevant in halacha!
Shhh… it’s not official yet.
“Some poskim” is not the same as all.
So wine is better, as I recall.
The mitzvah I won’t risk to lose,
that’s why I stay away from booze!
You say “a headache in der kup”,
(Where else would a headache end up?!)
I learned a remedy from my pa,
take four “Advil lo yada!”
I have a sister named Shulamit,
who really hates it when I vomit.
So I listen to my rov from shul,
who says to drink when your stomach is full!
I was asking about women in general, not about pregnant women. just regular women every day, whose husbands follow waiting six hrs. btw the thing of not waiting at all just birchas hamazon and kinuach hadacha is brought in the SA i think its from a tosfos?
There is no difference between men and women for this halacha. The fact that the leniency is mentioned regarding someone who is a new, expecting, or nursing mother is a proof that it does not apply to a regular woman, who has to wait just as long as a man.
What did Ed tie?
I should clarify that, as per the teshuva I quoted (the edit was a removal of a link to that teshuva), there are only grounds to be lenient in case of need; it’s not a “blanket heter”. Sefardim might also keep the six hours more stringently than Ashkenazim.
Don’t get shikur with your shnapps;
You’ll get in trouble with the cops,
At the Purim Seuda you’ll be fine,
if you just stick with dry wine!
There is a mitzvah livsumei;
not at night, only by day.
Although you’re chayav to get shikur,
some hold you cannot do it with liquor!
Use your seichel, use your brain,
Even if you’re dressed like Barack Hussein.
Don’t think that it is no big deal,
Don’t get yourself behind the wheel!
If a kid wants to drink should you let him,
have some booze or even Kedem?
If you give him a glass or even a quarter,
Don’t let Ctrl Alt Del know, he’s a mandatory reporter!
So a freilichen Purim to one and all,
as we celebrate Haman’s downfall.
and the great event which did ensue,
The Yidden did kiy’mu v’kiblu!
There are definitely grounds to be lenient for a new mother, and even for a nursing or expectant mother. From:???? ???? – ??? ???? ???? ???????
EDTIED
????? ???? ??? ??? ???? ?????? ??????
??? ??? ???? ????? (??? ?? ???): ??? ???? ???? ??? ?????? ???? ??? ?? ????? ???? ???? ??? ????? ?????? ?????? ?????? ??? ????? ????? ????? ????? ???, ???
??? ????? ?? ?????? ?? ?, ?????? ????? ????? ??? ?????? ?????, ?? ????? ???? ????? ??? ????? ?????, ??? ????? ??? ?? ??? ????? ??, ???? ????? ????? ??? ?? ???? ????? ??? ??
?????
?? ????? ??? ????? ????? ???? ??? ??, ????? ???? ??? ?????? ?? ?????? ?? ????? ?????? ??? ????? ????? ??? ?????
??? ??????
tomato or tomato?
??? ?? ?????
princess, i agree with you totally
The beginning of Princess123’s post said “its really not ok.“
did you take your wives along with you?
Wow, popa, you work fast!
Just that if they tell you that 2+3=5 then you can believe them.
Why would you need them to tell you that? 🙂
[em]and meeting for minyan twice aday?[/em]
tefilas arvis rishus?
How about mincha before shkiah and ma’ariv after with a seder in between?
BTW, it’s spelled A H E M.
(Actually to italicize, like this:
<em>and meeting for minyan twice aday?
tefilas arvis rishus? </em>)nusach? 🙂
A bovine from Salt Lake City
small miracles
a little bigger
anxious patient
civil war
oxymoron
How about redundancies?
Good Yom Tov
Mayim Acharonim Vasser
ATM Machine
repetitively redundant
Level of service should certainly be a factor. Ever shop in a 7-11 or other store open to all hours of the night? ever buy something at a rest area on the highway? The prices are higher because they are extending a level of service that others do not and incur a cost in passing along that service as well.
100% correct. A rest stop would have an additional factor; it’s a different market (unless there were two stores in the same rest area competing with each other).
In the example given, Marshall’s may actually be violating the rules against *under*charging.
The rules of under”charging” (underpaying) apply to a buyer, not a seller. In this case, a store like Marshall’s is certainly aware that they are selling below retail, so there would be no problem buying from a closeout store.
The Marshalls example is not valid. Sorry.
Grandmaster only quoted part of my original post; in the sentence before “In addition…”, I noted that Marshalls sells closeouts.
However, it bears (pardon the pun) further explanation. If a particular item is widely available at a closeout price, and a store carries it at full price, it might still be ona’ah, despite the fact that the owner might be taking a loss. However, going to a regular shoe store, where you’re likely to find what you need, is a different shopping experience than going to Marshalls, which is more “hit and miss”. A store owner, I think, has a right to charge more for a particular item if he provides a better selection; it’s the same idea as better service.
This from Money – The Bottom Line (Rabbi Kaufman):
Market price for the identical object will vary from store to
store due to such factors as service, store ambiance, and
knowledgeable sales staff [50].
50. Pischei Choshen 4:10:(11 ).
As far as me not knowing the halacha in overcharging. I admit I never learnt those Halachos, and since it doesn’t pertain to me
The halachos of ona’ah apply not only to a seller, but also to a buyer, so you should learn at least the basics.
Very funny!
Some of these were actually put on after these mistakes were made, or after a lawsuit (I’m thinking pet drying, hot beverages.)
Some were clearly intended to be humorous – muffin, ketchup.
Aries2756,
Although you are correct, some doctors (and mostly, their office staff) do not properly take their patients’ anxiety into consideration. I once spent hours in an emergency room waiting for a very relaxed and underwhelmed staff to get around to doing their job.
I’m becoming a Moron.
We’ve noticed 🙂
I’m becoming a Mormon.
Popa, you have a unique opportunity to make a serious dent in the shidduch crisis.
I asked this particular shaila once when it was relevant to me. The example of the shoe store is analogous to my situation, so I’ll use it.
Marshall’s sells the shoes off the shelf; the customer fits himself and pays for it. The typical “heimish” shoe store has a professional fitter who dedicates time and expertise to helping the customer decide what to buy based on his particular needs, and will advise as to quality, comfort, and durability, and make sure the shoe fits properly.. He can therefore charge more.
On the other hand, if there are two competing grocery stores, one cannot knowingly charge more than the other on the same package of cookies. they could charge more if the store is upper scale, with nicer decor, valet parking, etc., because the entire shopping experience is taken into consideration.
As far as your point regarding subjectivity, a dayan would have to decide. Very possibly, an industry which is very service oriented is much less subject to ona’ah than one which is product oriented, and the line differentiating between them can sometimes be blurry.
To illustrate a clear cut case which I think anyone would agree to, I don’t think anyone would doubt that a full service gas station can charge more than a self-serve station.
Remember when the limerick thread thrived?
We thought, though, it had not survived.
But sc and Shticky
have made this thread “sticky”,
it’s so nice to see it revived!
The Sephardim topic’s now closed,
and this one, so underexposed,
to our great dread,
seemed to be dead,
but actually only had dozed.
Thanks, 80.
Who says they don’t let? In the instances I know about in which the mods objected, the poster was using multiple screen names to agree with himself or be a troll to be able to argue with the “other poster’s” point.
Mods, is it OK with you to open a second screen name for personal type posts?
I will not leave it at that.
Sacrilege, you seem to have a very negative opinion of today’s chinuch. A good mechanech (and most are) strives to teach the beauty of Yiddishkeit, not just the punitive aspect. Most are successful, B”H. I’m not minimizing the need for supplemental programs such as Project Chazon, but more will be hurt by drastically changing our mainstream chinuch system than will benefit.
mytake,
Acknowledging that some do not succeed in the mainstream system is indeed not a slap in the face, especially since it is often not a failure of the school, but another factor. Nor is it a slap in the face to try to help those individuals. But the OP’s statement that “the world is not so concerned of keeping the frum frum” (paraphrased) is a slap in the face.
I can’t see who has the patience to click “next page” to see the feedback on their comments.
It’s easier to click on the highest page number, or on “latest reply”.
The threads with many posts tend to be more interesting than the “three posts and out” threads.
As far as overcharging, a store can charge whatever they want…. and you have a choice to buy whereever you choose!!!
Absolutely untrue. In cases where the stores are otherwise comparable, Charlie is correct that there is an issur d’Oraiso to overcharge.
Buy less than you usually buy.
“I bought a pair of Rockport dress shoes at standard price in Marshalls for $35.99. The next day I happened to be in a frum shoe store and the exact same pair was $115. “
Over- or under-charging by more than 1/6 is asur.
To the best of my knowledge, Marshall’s sells closeouts.
In addition, to establish that something is asur because of ona’ah, you have to take into account a number of factors, including:
-
prevalent selling price (not just compared to one or two stores)
location
level of service
Chances are, a claim of ona’ah in this case would not stand up in B.D..
No, I would not date a Sephardi…
… my wife won’t let me. 🙂
The Wolf
Why, is she a racist? 🙂
nothing worse than getting an unwanted present
I could think of worse things 🙂
popa’s second wife (I bought the car used from popa and haven’t yet gotten a chance to clean it out.)
Why is the world so into making the non frum frum, and not so concerned of keeping the frum frum.
That question is based on a false premise.
“The world” is quite concerned about keeping people frum. What do you think chinuch habonim is all about? What a slap in the face it must be for a parent to hear that they are not so concerned with keeping their children frum when they invest their entire lives – emotionally, physically, spiritually, and financially – into raising their children to be ehrliche Yidden!
What do you think yeshivos and Bais Yaakovs are all about? What a slap in the face it must be for yeshiva and Bais Yaakov administrators, rebbeim, moros, and even donors to be told that they are not so concerned with keeping talmidim and talmidos frum!
And they’re not even satisfied with their children and talmidim remaining frum; they are moser nefesh to instill a proper chinuch, on the highest possible level, to help them grow into real yorei shomayim. And they should be accused chas v’shalom of being “not so concerned?!
Why is everyone giving her unsolicited advice about what to do to someone giving..
Because she, um, solicited it by posting it in a public forum?
Does he have Bimchitzosom? Great set of books! Otherwise, consider cufflinks (if he likes them).
I happen to live next to one of the heads of NK, and even if there is a moderate wing they do not represent NK. The NK is an extremist fanatic group. They themselves disassociate themselves from any moderates who claim to be NK.
The moderate NK disassociate themselves from the fanatics, and claim that the fanatics do not represent NK.
Bottom line? There are two groups calling themselves NK, each deligitimizing the other.
Aha! So that’s why they told my sister that she’s on the weighting list.
Sometimes a local tzedakah vaad only issues a certificate for a certain amount of time; maybe she had one and it expired, and she could not get another.
Sometimes a particular collector cannot find a convenient time to meet with the vaad.
I’m not saying you should give her money, just that her refusal to get a letter does not mean that she’s certainly a fraud.
I am very selective. I only agree to go out with people who agree to go out with me.
this is going so back and forth. maybe we should just agree everyone has their own things to go by.
I agree. I go by the Torah, and you go by your yetzer hora.
I know I’m being sharp here, but my point is that the “back and forth” here has really been about some people’s own thoughts vs. Chazal’s clear dictates (as applied by our contemporary gedolim).
how are you sposed to know if the orginsashin is realibel
Ask around.
What if you ask around, and everyone keeps saying “ask around”?
🙂
pba,
So that’s how you can afford to go to Starbucks.