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In the original thread, it was made clear that it was Rabbi Avi Weiss.
In this thread it was, as well, but both Avi and Weiss are not uncommon names (and every other Jew seems to be called Rabbi! ? )
!???
I end up giving post dated checks and scringing all summer to cover them!
You’re to be admired for your mesiras nefesh for your kids (also for your creativity in language).
You should just realize, though that you’re not really paying “up front”.
shlishi,
There are no specific girls left without a shidduch, so the girls don’t look at it as if they’re stranded on a desert island with just one, older, man.
Whether or not a girl should take her “poor” odds into consideration is a personal decision, but there are other things to be compromised before age.
You mention divorcees, but you lump it together with age discrepancy. I wouldn’t.
I also think 22 (as mentioned by a different poster) is a ridiculously low age to be so desperate.
It was sung by “Aron” (Larry) Gates.
Wolf,
Charlie referred to someone’s snide remark about Rabbi Weiss, so it was fair for someone to identify which Rabbi Weiss was being referred to.
Sorry, Zeeskite; I can not believe you do not know what these words mean, as they represent your philosophy.
I believe she meant that rhetorically.
When it comes to inyonei kedusha, it is normative halacha.
????? ???? ??? ???? ??: ???? ??? ?????? ?? ????? ??? ???
Everyone wants to be paid upfront.
Do you blame them?
If you can afford to spread the payments out, ask if they would consider post-dated checks or credit card authorizations.
I know people who have taken out low interest promotional credit card loans when a big expense came up (0% interest with a 2% or 3% fee).
Hatzlocha!
Do they both say that the Braisa is talking in the case of 1 Meyavem and one lady or can the Braisa be talking only the case of multiple women?
They don’t specifically say; it can likely be talking about either case. (The beraisa happens to use loshon yochid).
The guy usually doesn’t care how young the girl is.
He should. Although he may need to be makpid on her ability to have children, why should he get involved in a marriage which can easily be filled with ketotah?
Ok, so at what point, acc. to you, does she have to settle on an older man before she is considered being Mevatel the Mitzva? 40,45,50?
Good question. I guess there’s some type of sliding scale, with a larger age discrepancy as she gets older (in which case a larger separation in years may not indicate as large a discrepancy in maturity as when she was younger).
I hold -by 22 she is Oiver because if there was s/o who wanted her -she would have found him in the last few years.
I think that’s way over the top.
mdd,
I assumed Health was as well.
Charlie,
See Shach (29) and Taz (13) on Yoreh Deah 94.
Yes, k’dai sheyishalu hatinokos. 🙂
I guess The Goq and I made a trade, kind of like Sarah and Yehoshua.
DY -“Also, according to you, it’s perfectly acceptable to marry someone quite a bit younger, so why would age be a criterion for elimination?”
They aren’t eliminated; just recommended against only when you have more than one to choose.
That was the context I was referring to. I see at the end of your post that you agree that a large age difference can cause marital strife, so it seems that you agree to this basic point.
“One more thing – why does the beraisa say the issue is kettotah if the issue is finances?”
Kettoh means strife. In this case the strife is financial.
If you mean that finacial strain can lead to marital strife, I accept your point. Even if this was not your intention, I thought of this point over Shabbos (and I saw a Meiri who uses the term ketotah referring to the gemara on mem daled), and I retract this kasha.
“The pshat I mentioned is the simple pshat, and it does not pose any of these difficulties.
The kasha on mem daled is how can beis din allow an ill advised marriage (multiple wives – assumed in the kasha to be unaffordable) even if there’s a mitzvah of yibum. We find similarly in the beraisa that based on the pasuk of v’dibru, beis din advises (insists) against an ill advised marriage despite the mitzvah (the example the beraisa gave of an ill advised marriage is to someone of a very different age, which will lead to marital discord”
Ok, let’s say you could learn your P’shat that they use the Posuk to tell you that you aren’t allowed to do Yibum with older or younger women. My P’shat fits in so you don’t have to learn your way, but let’s say you want to. Where do you ever see you don’t have to be Mikayim Pru OORevu because of age difference? You want to say the Posuk throws it out of Yibum altogether, fine; but now take it and learn it by regular marriage -impossible. And you can’t say I’ll find someone else -this minute you are being Mevatel Pru OORevu. The same is true by the woman -this minute they aren’t being Mekayim L’sheves Yeetzoroh.
First, I will reiterate that your pshat does not fit in. The Meiri I mentioned, as well as the Ritva, both learn that the gemara on mem daled is asking from the beraisa as an analogy, not directly.
Of course he is not patur from p’ru ur’vu, but there’s no chiyuv to marry the first woman you meet even if it’s a horrible shidduch!
Now you know why Boaz said what Rus did was such a big chessed- marrying an older guy can cause marital strife and even so she wanted him. And in her case, not like nowadays it was Only chessed because e/o wanted to marry her.
I’m glad that we can agree, at least, that a large age gap can cause marital strife.
But in our generation they will sit aroung waiting in their twenties and thirties, not necessarily having s/o who definitely will marry them but as long as they won’t marry s/o older. Maybe the older guys aren’t Tzadikim like Boaz, but the girls aren’t like Rus either were e/o wants them or they would be married by 22!
I don’t think it’s fair to compare our generation to Rus and Boaz at all.
It’s also not realistic to expect a girl in her 20’s or 30’s to give up on a normal marriage and agree to marry someone who might be decades older than her.
But she wasn’t necessarily a zonah before.
Conception and birth are after she’s a zonah.
I’ve always learned the same as Ender, that a Chalal is only from Kohein-specific issurim.
IIRC, it’s a machlokes rishonim, but we pasken as S.A. above.
Safek mamzer is muttar.
The reason I think there is no such thing as a kohen mamzer is because the woman becomes a zonah since she is assur to the kohen (as per S”A E”H 6-8) so the child is a chalal.
What about fruit on a platter in a nonjewish location, are you allowed to eat the grapes and blueberries (fruit that is not cut) if its on the decorative platter with the rest of the fruit?
Yes
OK, I have a couple of unexpected “free” minutes, so I’ll address the way you learned the gemara.
The problem is, you’re reading something into the beraisa which simply isn’t there; the beraisa is referring to regular yibum, and to learn that it’s talking about multiple yevamos, with the objective to eliminate all but one, is pure speculation.
The Tur would also be completely out of context, as I already mentioned, and there’s no reason for him to expect us to understand his case to be that of multiple yevamos when the beraisa makes no hint of that.
Also, according to you, it’s perfectly acceptable to marry someone quite a bit younger, so why would age be a criterion for elimination?
One more thing – why does the beraisa say the issue is kettotah if the issue is finances?
The pshat I mentioned is the simple pshat, and it does not pose any of these difficulties.
I was busy.
I hope with good things. I’m busy now, so I’ll try to respond to yor way of learning the gemara later.
The kasha on mem daled is how can beis din allow an ill advised marriage (multiple wives – assumed in the kasha to be unaffordable) even if there’s a mitzvah of yibum. We find similarly in the beraisa that based on the pasuk of v’dibru, beis din advises (insists) against an ill advised marriage despite the mitzvah (the example the beraisa gave of an ill advised marriage is to someone of a very different age, which will lead to marital discord
Good Shabbos
Apparently, you cannot connect a cd drive to an ipad. This from ehow:
Do you need to install media that is on a CD? If you need to install media that is on a CD, on a netbook you can simply connect a CD drive using a USB cable. The only way to get media from the Ipad is to purchase it from Itunes or applications store.
I am disturbed by YOUR advocacy of illegal activity, even in the face of evidence that a frum Jew is being harmed by it.
I never said to break the law, I don’t know that anything illegal is being done. But even if it is, it’a assur to be moser. And why do you say that a frum Jew is being harmed,; they’re probably giving the job to a different frum Jew.
gaw,
I see that my post (as well as the post I was responding to) was removed. My point was that if a company wants a female employee because of a legitimate tznius concern, it’s acceptable. I was also disturbed by the advocacy of mesirah.
I don’t try to be a heretic… I just am.
And yet, many frum Jews would consider me a heretic and a lousy human being anyway.
Yourself included?
So, who am I to argue with them?
Why do you choose to believe them that you’re an apikores; you’d be better off believing in their hashkafos so that you wouldn’t be one (since you anyhow think they’re correct for considering you an apikores).
Mod: I had a few more minutes now to completely answer his post. Can you please remove the earlier one? Thanks.
Daas Yochid – IDK; Did you read my post on the previous page? Why in the world would you think this applies to a regular marriage or even regular Yibum? The Gemorrah says quite clearly that it’s going on that case of more than one that needs Yibum.
It’s a beraisa. The gemara quoted it to ask a kasha. The beraisa was talking about regular yibum.
I completely fail to follow your train of thought.
Likewise.
the Gemorrah says if he is wealthy, he can marry more than one and we don’t tell him anything like -stick with your own age buddy.
Because it’s an unrelated case; the yevamos are of similar age to him.
The gemorrah says we only tell him this when there will be conflict (Kettoh). So why do you keep on pretending that this is just like a Chok in Torah Sheb’ksav. You keep insisting that this Eitza has no reason and applies all the time, in every type of marriage.
And of course it’s brought down in Tur because this is the Halacha with more than one women to be Meyabim.
The Tur does not say one word about more than one yevama, because the beraisa was not only talking in such a case.
Even when the Torah says something which is a Chok, Chazal tried to find some sort of reason and here where the Gemorrah says clearly what the reason is, you pretend there isn’t any.
I never pretended any such thing. The reason given is ketotah.
And btw, how did you come across this Gemorrah -did you learn it now or recently, or did you do some Talmudic search on the net looking for something to prove me wrong?!?
she told us she wasnt there to sell her seminary
True; she was there to recruit. Which students have enough money to buy a seminary anyway?
I would unequivocally, absolutely, NEVER vote for a woman to hold public office (unless she was the better candidate).
If one’s anniversary falls out on Yom Tov, is it a violation of Ain M’arvin simcha b’simcha to have a cake to celebrate it on that day?
The Wolf
Don’t worry, it turns out that the clerk who signed your marriage documents had an unlicensed kindergarten teacher. 😉
Gales:
I’d never heard of a pot,
that was (or was not) not bar not.
According to R’ Shlomo,
it’s called “eino ben yomo”,
when the absorbed ta’am begins to rot.
From limericks I’ve taken a break,
(I hope it was not a mistake).
I thought I’d stop by,
just to say hi,
now I see I missed out on cheesecake!
On Shavuos I had a big piece,
from a cake which was made by my niece.
Her name is Blimi,
her cheesecake’s so creamy!
It’s simple, heavenly and zees!
So like all of you I must diet,
self control – I must try it!
Please limit your barbs,
while I limit my carbs,
Please don’t make fun, just be quiet.
Soon, I’ll once more be svelte,
we’ll see the extra pounds melt.
Although it’s my vice,
to say, “just one slice”,
I’d rather fit into my belt!
Enough with Talmud 101!
Good line.
Regardless, the beraisa, quoted on kuf aleph (sorry) and mem daled says that it is not a good idea to marry someone much older or younger, and the halacha is brought like this in the Tur (the S.A. doesn’t specify what kind of an eitzah, but doesn’t argue on the beraisa, obviously).
Would the mamzer child be considered a kohen mamzer or a chalal mamzer? That’s my question. I believe the latter.
80,
I think it’s being used in contradistinction to a man who is able to have children, as in:
A man who is able to have children can only marry a woman who is able to have children, but a man who is unable to have children can “even” marry a woman who is unable to have children.
gregaaron,
Can a mamzer be a kohen?
is a man who is physically unable to have children obligated to get married?
Yes (Rema, E”H 1-6)
is he allowed to marry a woman who is capable of having children? (or at least there is no indication that she is not capable)
Yes (diyuk in Nimukei Yosef, the Rem”a’s source, who writes that he may even marry a woman who cannot bear children).
IOW, except in those very rare circumstances, a man’s *obligation* to get married always remains.
For other (less blatant) exceptions, ask a posek (actually, ask a posek even for these).
I’ll have the mushrooms on the side, then.
The pumpernickel might taste great, but I’m afraid the burger might fall off.
Maybe if I melt some (parve) cheese on it, it’ll stick. I’ll keep the wrapper on so it won’t be maris ayin.
shlishi,
Although technically all men have an obligation to get married, there may very well be instances where for “practical” reasons, it would indeed be assur to do so. Oomis’ examples (if she’s correct medically) are very illustrative.
The din of “katlanis” is, I believe, a real issur, and is along the same lines.
Health,
I don’t know why you think the gemara on 44 is the “main” gemara, which somehow renders the one on 101 obsolete. On 101, the gemara quotes the beraisa (posted above) which gives marrying someone (much) older or younger as an example of an ill-advised marriage. The gemara on 44 asks a question on the mishna which allows multiple yibums (from different brothers) because this would also be ill-advised. The two are in no way contradictory, and, in fact, the Tur (166) gives the former as an example.
i would think you would be the type for a hamburger on pumpernickle, medium well, with some grilled onions and mushrooms on it.
Sounds pretty good, hold the mushrooms and pumpernickel, put it on a soft roll instead.
i leave the condiments up to you
Thanks for giving me some autonomy.
but i dont think you need any.
Got that just right; I prefer mustard but don’t need it.
How about something from the Kosher Subway 🙂
That belongs in the oxymoron thread. ?
There was never any question that it is certainly actually permitted to do so.
I didn’t think you did question it, which is why that post did not quote or address you, or any specific poster.
Mod 80,
What should I have for lunch?
I looked it up. The main gemorrah is Mem Daled
It’s on kuf aleph, amud beis, sixlines before the wide lines.
http://www.hebrewbooks.org/shas.aspx?mesechta=14&daf=101b&format=pdf
The relevant passage reads:
??????? ????? ?? ??? ????? ????? ???? ???? ??????? ?? ??? ?????? ?? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???? ???? ??? ??? ???? ???? ?????? ?? ?? ?? ??? ???? ?? ?? ??? ???? ??? ??? ?????? ??? ????? ???? ???? ????
The highway rest areas are certainly not maris ayin because it’s known that it’s the most convenient rest stop.
WADR, you don’t know that.
It’s just as true as your story.:)
shlishi,
Once we’ve agreed that Chaza”l’s position is not universal, we can discuss who is or isn’t excluded. I happen to agree that some people misapply it, but some people really will only make another person suffer if they marry.
ilovetheholyland,
Who says that Chaza”l (Sotah 2a, BTW) applies to everyone? Maybe it only applies to those who do have a “bashert”?
It is also apparent in some of the meforshim that one can, through his choices, follow a path different than the bas kol.
Wolf,
Good news. It turns out that the person working for the NYC Board of Ed who sent you that letter was actually a student of that kindergarten teacher who carried a grudge. Since the teacher’s license was revoked, the NYC Board of Ed retroactively nullified all of that worker’s actions.
The good news — I graduated with my Master’s Degree a three weeks ago.
I suppose it wasn’t in Language and Grammar Studies.
as if there havent always been older singles…please give me a break
Even if that’s true, it doesn’t make it easier for the current crop.
Yes
???? ?? ??? ?? ?? ????
Marriage is not for everyone.
Shlishi – “Chazal say otherwise.”
Wrong.
I agree, but it should be backed up.
The Mishna in Avos about L’Chupa isn’t exclusionary.
How do you know?
I would say that Chaza”l could not possibly have held that marriage is for everyone, since it’s not possible for everyone to get married.