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Wolf,
Haba l’horg’cha, hashkeim l’horgo. Bring your gun (or fangs).
But that’s what it will inevitably become. Eizehu chacham haroeh es hanolad.
Any thread could degenerate that way (and many do, hopefully stopped my a moderator).
Why should they be stigmatized?
He didn’t sat they should be, he said they would be.
What’s wrong with a CC guy trying to figure out how many others are here? He didn’t ask for opinions on CC guys.
Some people seem to be concerned with how this smells and looks.
I think the opposite. I think the best way we can show how illegitimate this law is, is to take it to such extremes that we show how it is a sham.
For it to be perceived that way, it would have to be done en masse, with media interviews making it clear that it was a protest. Your OP said that it was about a couple of yeshiva guys looking for a tax break.
43
Do you want jews now writing a kesubah on mishkav zachor?!
That’s not what is being proposed. What is being proposed is using it as a loophole (but you’ve brought up a good point; using legislation which is so offensive, even as a loophole, is a C”H).
I’ve heard that R’ Pam zt”l would not be m’sader kiddushin to a couple who didn’t register civilly. IMHO, it’s more an inyan of C”H than M”A (and the model by which I judge this question as C”H, although it’s the reverse).
I think the point is that living in a way which is legitimately considered morally repulsive to the more upstanding members of (non-Jewish) society is a C”H (I used the term “legitimately” to exclude any case where the Torah compels us to act otherwise).
I understand why some people (e.g. Oomis) think it’s fraud. I’m not so sure, though, since, rachmana litzlan, marriage has just been legally redefined beyond it’s natural definition, so who is to say that it wouldn’t be 100% legal? I guess I would have to see the law to form an opinion, but I doubt that one of the conditions is that the couple have m”z.
Would it be ok for two yeshiva guys to get a civil marriage for tax purposes, if they obviously will not do any issurim?
It would cause complications when they really get married. They would first have to get a civil divorce from each other.
Anyhow, I think it’s a chillul Hashem.
Have a good, healthy summer!
I’m sure many people will have a different schedule and/or location for the summer, so there will likely be many changes in who visits the CR.
shlishi,
I didn’t say that. There’s an inyan to be consistent in the zmanim (even more so on the same day).
Englishman,
Yes, but it may be okay under certain circumstances. It should not be tarti d’sasri, meaning there should be a reasonable way of considering mincha during the day and ma’ariv at night (e.g. before/ after plag or shkia) and a sha’as had’chak, such as difficulty in organizing a minyan later. Otherwise, ma’ariv should be after tzeis hacochavim.
If you want to argue against veteran’s assertion of mesira based on that the alarm was waking him up, you need to state that in your defense.
Yes that, and the fact that a ticket was not his intention, nor a definite consequence.
I don’t necessarily know that it was muttar to call the police; what I am saying is simply that it would have to be vaday mesirah for the din of ??? ????? ??????, ??? to apply.
To answer the OP:
Since Eliyahu saw techeiles, if he would identify it today, we would have an unbroken mesorah on it, and we would wear it. If your rebbeim wouldn’t, you should get new rebbeim.
(I’m assuming that we know for sure it’s really Eliyahu Hanavi. )
PAA,
Thanks, I posted before yours was on the board.
And you’re correct, I didn’t mean to answer according to the OP’s assumption.
Here’s the Ramba”m,
? ???? ????? ????? ??? ????, ?????? ???? ??? ???? ???? ???? ?????. ????? ?????? ???? ??????, ??? ????? ????? ???? ????? ????? ?? ??????, ?????? ???? ??–??? ???? ???? ?????, ?????? ?? ??????? ?? ?? ?????. ?? ???? ???? ???? ?? ??, ??? ??????–???? ??????; ??? ????? ??????, ???.
Not an exact quote, true, it says zacha, not zoche. That’s not a paraphrase, it’s a misspelling.
That phrase is referring to a moser, and since I am maintaining that someone who calls the police to have them shut off someone’s car alarm is not a moser, it doesn’t apply here.
Please find me the Ramba”m which says that calling the cops for a car alarm is mesirah.
Boy, tough crowd.
is Dy really PM?
No
PAA,
I don’t think he’s a moser, certainly not a vaday (certain).
(If he’s a safek moser, he’d be patur aval assur ?.)
I have a MOreh Heter.
I also had a Morah Heather. She was Morah Leah’s assistant. ?
What klach said is a paraphrase of the Rambam’s endorsement of killing a moiser. It means “whoever kills him first gets the merit”.
I believe it’s an exact quote. I do not believe that it applies here.
I can’t cite sources, but AFAIK mesirah applies even if the party is guilty. However, it is sometimes muttar (obviously, AYLOR) when beis din is not an option. This might be such a case.
I don’t think they give tickets for car alarms (although they might technically be able to, I don’t know for sure).
I also can’t imagine (again, sorry, no source) that one can’t do teshuva on this.
Wolf, you are usually an advocate of AYLOR; could you please let us know what he says?
i dont mean you. sorry for implying that just responding to mods post.
No problem. I was only half serious; I wasn’t sure if you meant me.
you are not jopseph as far as im concerned (or are you?!?!?!)
Now you’re accusing me? ? (This time, 100% not serious.)
Wow, this is the second time this week I’ve been accused of being Joseph!
According to a friend of his that I spoke with, he uses AZ because he knows everything from A to Z.
They are the initials of a significant person in his life.
Everyones shidduch was created 40 days before yitziras havlad.
What’s your point with that? Are you saying that nobody ever died without getting married?
BTW, the source of that is Sotah 2a. See Tos’ there.
Aries,
I didn’t twist your words – I know that you think it’s the right thing to pay. You also think though, that there is no “going rate” and there is no specific minimum amount without prior agreement, and on this you are wrong. If you think, as does Wolfish Musings, that it is wise to make clear the financial expectations in advance, I can understand that (although, as I stated, I also understand why shadchanim are uncomfortable doing so).
However, if someone did not do so, the parents are still obligated according to halacha (not “merely” yashrus) to pay according to the going rate (albeit the lower end of the normal range).
I’m sorry if you think I twisted your words.
The inyan isn’t to appear to do something assur that others will think ill of you
See Rashi on Shabbos 146b who seems to think otherwise (both inyanim are true).
Aries,
It’s a nice theory, but according to halacha, they are obligated to pay, just like a worker or borrower need to be paid. This was discussed earlier in the thread (no I’m not c”v accusing you of disregarding halacha, I think you just don’t know – so don’t go opening another halache thread! ?).
Aries,
But the onus is NOT on you to collect. That is out of your hands. The ONUS is up to them to pay.
Why do you feel that way? Would you say the same thing if it was a different type of debt, such as a loan, or compensation for a worker?
apushatayid,
If you feel so strongly that you were wronged, take them to beis din. Otherwise, forget about it.
I would think that beis din would be a last resort. She should first try to work it out with them.
I think we need to focus first on having inner tznius. Meaning- How to be gentle, dignified, respectful, sensitive, etc. Not to be loud, brash, and arrogant. Once we can attain that, outer tznius will be automatic. I don’t think making a foundation focusing only on outer tznius will work.
I agree almost completely with your statement. The one word I would change is “first”, to “also”, because hachitzoniyus m’orer es hap’nimiyus.
If anyone wants an idea for making an invention, someone ought to invent a little gadget like a gps, that sits somewhere in your car, and when it is alerted to the fact you’ve shut off the motor and are preparing to exit the vehicle, it makes a loud announcement “CHECK YOUR CAR SEAT FOR ANY CHILDREN”. as a reminder.
ARWSF – Check the post immediately before yours.
r-b,
I’m not sure you’re gonna like the new one…
Use the name real brisker and see if they call you Joseph.
This is my LAST request to have my SubTitle changed back. And If not I’M OUTTA HERE!
Just open a new account.
I think CSO Radio in Lakewood sells such a device.
1-877-987-8877 – [email protected].
Health,
I just saw how this thread digressed to discuss stealing from the government. It seems you think it’s okay. Have I misunderstood? I hope you’re kidding here, but if not, please speak to a posek about it, who will straighten you out on this one.
MiddlePath,
First of all, you’re to be commended for your last comments.
Second, I used the example of a real estate broker because, similar to the bas kol of “bas ploni l’ploni”, there is also a bas kol of “bayis ploni l’ploni”.
And yes, a shadchan is Hashem’s shaliach (yes, that made sense), but that has no bearing on the compensation he deserves.
Still alot for just a bris
Just a bris??!!
brotherofurs,
You should tell them that you already prayed. If you don’t want to, you don’t have to tell them why.
There’s no maris ayin to walk into shul late, although there might be, as dz said, an inyan of v’hiyisem n’kiyim to explain. But you could just explain that you were detained for a good reason without saying what it was.
The main disadvantage of the Canadian system, as applied to the US, would be massive unemployment among the paper-pushers at private insurance companies. But we would be spending much less for health care and likely get better outcomes.
I guess you’re one of those who wouldn’t mind.?
Who goes by Rabbeinu Tam’s shkia today?
Many, if not most, Chassidim, although the minhag in the US is for everyone to be machmir for the first shkia with regard to doing melacha on Shabbos or Yom Tov.
And how can a shul have a mincha and maariv minyan running simultaneously?
It’s easier if there are two rooms. ?
MiddlePath,
You shouldn’t pay you real estate broker either, since your house is also destined for you. Maybe you shouldn’t pay your gardener, since there’s a malach telling every blade of grass to grow.
I think you’ve also insulted shadchanim and denigrated the hard work they do.
gaw and miritchka,
It seems to be a halacha in (S.A. C”M 332 – 1) that we go according to the lower prevailing price. But wedo not exempt entirely for lack of prior arrangement (as miritchka implied), or go according to an unusual circumstance (as gaw implied – see 332 , end of R’ma).
How do you refer to your parents and to your in-laws when speaking to your spouse?
That question would be a great one to ask the shevatim.?
Otherwise: my mother, your mother, my father, your father.
Or: my mother-in-law, your mother-in-law, my father-in-law, your father-in-law (the first one’s easier).
if parents decide for whatever reason that public school is the best option, why must they be made to feel guilty about it?
Because they are messing up their kids’ neshamos for selfish reasons.
Please look at Reb Akiva Eiger C.M. 185; Pischei Teshuvah E.H. 50:16– rejecting the mistaken notion that a shadchan must always be paid.
For OC’s benefit, I’ll summarize:
If the shadchan initially stipulated that it was being done for free, he can’t later demand payment.
You didn’t say you were doing it for free, OC, did you? 😉
you are considering it a business and not as a mitzvah
There’s no reason that it can’t be both.
Simply lying to my wife where I’ve been so that I can weasel out of some housework and maintain shalom with my wife, is lying, not maintaining shalom.
Since you had the option to do the housework, you didn’t lie for shalom, you lied to get out of housework.
The fallacy with lying to your wife to maintain shalom, such as in pba’s case, is that sheker ein lo raglayim, and ultimately, when she finds out, not only will she be upset at what you did, she’ll be even more upset that you lied to her. The best way to maintain shalom (besides not getting involved in these bad activities to begin with) would be to own up, and ask her to help you get the help you need.
BH in my community I don’t see it
Neither do I, and I highly doubt anyone does. And that’s the bottom line for this discussion (I agree not to rehash our related discussions from the past ?).
jewish and working 22,
You are simply ignoring the fact that there are halachos about this.
Most, if not all, yeshivas and Beis Yaakov’s will give substantial deductions when necessary.
It is unheard of for a child to be forced into public school because of genuine inability to pay.
See ??”? ?”? ??? ?’ ??’ ?”?.